web
counter
 

Girls who Like Boys who Like Boys

By Dr. Pisaster | Posted Under Pajiba Dirty Talk | Comments (62)



eastendersgaykiss.jpg

If you read the comment section for last week’s column, you might have noticed that the reaction of a number of female commenters to the idea of men kissing each other wasn’t just “good for them,” but “good for them….can I watch?” We’ve accepted that men love the idea of watching two women do sexy things to each other, but learning that women similarly like the idea of two men doing sexy things to each other often provokes surprise, at least in the media, which always reports on any news related to female arousal at male homoeroticism as if it’s deeply subversive. Which is funny, because women’s fascination with homoerotic male behavior is hardly new.

The main difference, as far as I can tell, is that men often get to experience sexual interactions between women visually and openly, both in porn and not infrequently in real life at bars and parties, while women have always been more likely to turn to print to satisfy their desire for hot man-on-man action and to express this desire privately (though this is likely changing thanks to the mainstreaming of gay porn and the aforementioned increase in physical affection between men). Part of this has to do with cultural norms about sexual behavior. We often view women’s sexuality in terms of performance for the sake of men, so it follows that some women would willingly act out Sapphic scenarios if they realize that men find them appealing. The fact that men also traditionally feel more comfortable expressing their sexual desires also plays into such behavior. It’s not uncommon to see men egging women on to make out with each other, but it’s rare you’ll see women doing the same to men. Bi- and homosexuality are also more acceptable in our culture for women than for men, so women may feel more comfortable publicly displaying their erotic attraction to each other. They’re also likely to get a more positive reaction from onlookers — if I drunkenly make-out with a guy, chances are people will yell at us to get a room, but if I do so with another woman then my biggest problem is usually shoving away audience members who want to get a little too close. (For the record, I don’t make out with women to get male attention, it’s just that I will make out with almost anyone if I’m drunk and they nuzzle my neck in the right way. It’s like there’s a literal “turn on” button located in my neck.) Two men making out in public, on the other hand, can expect a more negative reaction than even a heterosexual couple, mostly because other men are more vocal about their disgust at such a sight than women are about their arousal.

Women may not be as likely as men to come right out and ask other people to make out with each other, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want to see (or at least imagine) two men together. There is a lot of material out there to fill that desire, although most people aren’t aware of it, or at least don’t realize how widespread it is. Slash fiction, for instance, a type of fan fiction that focuses on sexual relationships between male characters from movies, TV, and books, is primarily written and read by heterosexual women. This isn’t a new phenomenon, either, although the internet has broadened the audience greatly. The earliest examples of such fiction were written in the 70s and were based on Star Trek (Kirk and Spock are the original Slash couple). Another common form of man-love fiction which originated in the 70s and whose primary audience is straight women is Yaoi, a Japanese term for fiction (usually manga, and usually sexually explicit) involving homoerotic relationships between men. Male/male romance novels, a rapidly growing subgenre, are also primarily written and read by women. (And lest you think that the appeal here is the romance, let me assure you that almost nobody reads cheap romance novels for anything but the graphic descriptions of sex. Those books are girl-porn.) Anecdotally, a lot of straight women also like watching gay porn, and even prefer it to heterosexual porn, although actual statistics on this are difficult to find.

The reasons women give for enjoying this kind of fiction are diverse. Imagining two men together conveniently gets around the political and social pressures women deal with in regards to their own sexuality and lets them just enjoy the action. Additionally, some women want to experience something dramatically different from their real sex lives, and gay sex is about as different as it gets. Probably the biggest reason of the appeal of man-love fiction and videos, however, is that for heterosexual women, it provides two times the sexy. When you get down to the basics, pornographic works (both visual and written) operate primarily on two levels - the empathetic and the attractive. Porn can be hot because imagining yourself in the position of one of the characters gives you a vicarious thrill, or it can be hot because you are sexually attracted to one (or more) of the characters. If the latter is what you’re most interested in, then male-on-male erotica has the same advantage for straight women that lesbian erotica has for straight men - it’s twice the number of the gender you’re attracted to with no distracting members of the gender you aren’t. Of course women find that hot.

This isn’t to say that I think men should go around making out with each other just to arouse women. I’d prefer, frankly, that no one perform any sexual act solely for the titillation of others. But if men want to be able to enjoy watching women make out with each other, then it’s only fair to return the favor once in a while. As many of the ladies here will happily tell you, it would be greatly appreciated.

Dr. Pisaster has a doctorate in biophysics, not actually anything sexy. She does however enjoy having sex, reading about sex, and talking about sex. Especially when she’s had a little whiskey.










Each Time You Like, Share, Tweet or Stumble a Pajiba Post, An Angel Does the Paul Rudd Dance



Is the TSA a Broad Government Conspiracy to Molest Airline Passengers? | Pajiba Debates | Bags of D*cks | Eloquent Eloquence









Comments

Heterosexual woman here. *raises hand* I recently started reading a series of books by Lynn Flewelling (Nightrunner series, I think it's called). My main interest in the book was hearing that the two main characters have a gay relationship. It's so unusual to find that in fantasy novels. Anyway, I was rather disappointed that though they have plenty of sex it's not described much. So yeah, I find men having sex with each other titillating.

Posted by: pickled tink at November 23, 2010 4:21 PM

Oh, and you can get some nice pointers for your own sex life from gay porn. Just sayin'.

Posted by: pickled tink at November 23, 2010 4:23 PM

Ha! You said "titillation"! Yes, I'm 10.

Anyway, right on. Gay porn is hot. I couldn't really explain why before, but I like your theories.

Posted by: Joker at November 23, 2010 4:23 PM

For the record, I don’t make out with women to get male attention, it’s just that I will make out with almost anyone if I’m drunk and they nuzzle my neck in the right way. It’s like there’s a literal “turn on” button located in my neck.

Allow me to be the first to buy you a drink, m'love.

Very well written, and very informative. When I first heard about slash, I had a real issue with it. Upon further personal inspection, I found that what bothered me was for it to be against canon. I am just that anal-retentive. So though I dabble in fan-fiction, I cannot stand any of the Harry/Draco fic (for example) because it is, by nature of the characters, unfounded.

Yes, I'm THAT much of a nerd. Can I stay? What if I nuzzle Dr P?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at November 23, 2010 4:25 PM

I am totally on this band-wagon. Peaches is too: Google "Two Guys for Every Girl" lyrics. It's one of my favorite songs.

Posted by: Kristobel at November 23, 2010 4:28 PM

I'll never forget the first time in my sheltered life I saw two hot men make out - it was a Red Hot Chili Peppers video and Dave Navarro pushed Anthony Kiedis against a wall and basically shoved his tongue down his throat. The other girls in the room all yelled "EW."

I got wet.

Posted by: feramones at November 23, 2010 4:28 PM

Yep. Hot. [So speaks this mostly-hetero married female].

That's as eloquent as I can get about it. One attractive man is lovely. Two attractive men is even better. Two attractive men who are aroused?

Excuse me, I'll be over here removing my pants.

Posted by: Tammy at November 23, 2010 4:38 PM

As a heterosexual woman I can only say yes. Yes. Fucking hell yes.

Posted by: sarahk at November 23, 2010 4:39 PM

I, too, am intrigued by male on male action. I also second what pickled tink said about getting pointers for your own sex life.

Posted by: Jadine at November 23, 2010 4:40 PM

I'm cool with it. Just no docking.

Posted by: admin at November 23, 2010 4:41 PM

And lest you think that the appeal here is the romance, let me assure you that almost nobody reads cheap romance novels for anything but the graphic descriptions of sex. Those books are girl-porn.

I am going to assume that by "cheap" you mean "of poor quality," since, as a romance reader, I both despise mass-dismissals of any type of genre fiction and readily admit that some of those babies are badly written dreck that the graphic sex descriptions don't even make up for.

There is some very good romance out there. That being said, I have totally read cheap ass gay and not gay romance solely for the sex.

Interested women who have not yet done so, please see the last few minutes of Y tu mamá también. Gael García Bernal and Diego Luna. You'll thank me.

And feramones, name of video, please?

Posted by: leuce7 at November 23, 2010 4:43 PM

Speaking of: http://fuckyeahdudeskissing.tumblr.com/ (NSFW)
Sadly I found this lovely little link after this post went up, or it would've been in the main text.

Posted by: dr. pisaster at November 23, 2010 4:44 PM

Feramones, details please! I need to see this kiss immediately.

"Docking"? I'm going to google that and be horrified, aren't I?

Posted by: Lauren at November 23, 2010 4:47 PM

It's just hot. That's why. Even as a genuinely good little girl in a rural Ohio Catholic school who never even had a boyfriend, I knew this, even thought I was pretty sure I was alone in it. And like guys and their lesbian porn, if they're pretty and genuinely look into it, along with the thrill of seeing something so rarely visible, it's one of the best things ever. (The best thing would be getting invited to join in, but I'll take what I can get.)

Posted by: Cadet at November 23, 2010 4:49 PM

OMG, that tumblr? It's all jawbones and pecs and scruff and grkhg;lg;b;g;lbbbbb . . . .

*melts off of chair into a puddle*

Posted by: Lauren at November 23, 2010 4:52 PM

It was from their "Warped" video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmyuJZH3RAc

Around the 3:59 mark.

You're welcome.

Posted by: feramones at November 23, 2010 4:54 PM

I must admit, having never watched gay porn, I'm not entirely sure what "pointers" I'm going to pick up. I suppose if I needed/wanted dick-sucking lessons, but seeing as how I often contemplate teaching a class, I think I am good.

Posted by: sure, THIS post I block my name at November 23, 2010 4:56 PM

That Red Hot Chili Peppers video is "Warped" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmyuJZH3RAc)

I don't really have anything else to the conversation, I just wanted an excuse to showcase my old Chili Peppers hyperfandom.

Posted by: Nonanonymous at November 23, 2010 4:57 PM

Perverts!

Posted by: Nobbie at November 23, 2010 5:00 PM

Huh. I read the first book in the Nightrunner series, and wouldn't say there's a lot of gay sex - just one main gay character. But I still dig Flewelling - love her Tamir series.

I never read the books, but I think it's Salvatore who wrote the dark elf Drzzt books, and Drzzt is gay. Though, again, I don't think it's explicit in the sex scenes. I would bet there's plenty of gay fantasy out there, just not so much in the mainstream.

Overall, though, I have read that women get more turned on than men by witnessing ALL kinds of sexual encounters: lesbian, gay, hetero, even animal - whereas men will mostly just get aroused by their niche: gay sex for gay men, lesbian and hetero sex for straight men.

Posted by: Sara Tonin at November 23, 2010 5:05 PM


Sara Tonin, Not to go all spoilerish, but there's more gay sex happening in later books. I'm on the 4th one now.

Posted by: pickled tink at November 23, 2010 5:14 PM

I can personally verify that men comfortable enough to make out with another guy - just to see how they like it even! - are the best damn lovers in the whole wide world.

There's a guy I know - my first boyfriend - who used to occasionally greet his buddy by jumping onto him and fullmouth kissing him...they'd do this little grab ass bit and then laugh their asses off and damned if it wasn't the hottest, most fun thing ever. I wished I could be that what-the-fuck-ever playful. How I never ended up with the two of them at once I'll never know, but man do I regret the missed chance!

Posted by: replica at November 23, 2010 5:23 PM

OMG. That site is the bomb sPiz.

Posted by: replica at November 23, 2010 5:26 PM

Yes yes yes yes. To the links, to the guys making out or having sex or whatever.

I love gay porn, think straight porn is meh, and lesbian porn is just the stupidest shit I've ever seen. And I'm bisexual in a lesbian relationship (to clarify).

Guys are hot. I like them. I like seeing them be sexy. And they aren't expected to look as stupid and unrealistic (except for penis size) on film as women are. Because, yeah, lesbian porn is SUPER accurate (with the implants, and the nails, and the makeup, and the lame, timid attempts at cunnilingus and give me a fucking BREAK).

Also, aside from the kiss in the Warped video, I always loved seeing Dave Navarro in a black leather dress with fishnets. That still melts me.

Posted by: MyySharona at November 23, 2010 5:26 PM

As an equal opportunity ogler, can I just say "Hear! Hear!"

And tumblr is, to quote a friend, "a rabbithole" of frisky business content.

Posted by: Sara H at November 23, 2010 5:35 PM

Don't lie Nobbie
you know you like to get a little beard burn on your cheeks just like the rest of us.

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 23, 2010 5:37 PM

Hetero Female, here. My first hot man on man action that I viewed was Tim Curry as Frankenfurter kissing Brad in The Rocky Horror Picture Show. That bit was way hotter than him kissing Janet. Brokeback Mountain did nothing for me, but I'd watch John Barrowman kiss Spike again.

Posted by: BWeaves at November 23, 2010 5:39 PM

Damn I shaved today.

*begins eagerly growing beard*

Posted by: Ian at November 23, 2010 5:46 PM

but I'd watch John Barrowman kiss Spike again.

NOW, tell me where to find this mythical unicorn of hotness NOW!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at November 23, 2010 5:53 PM

I found this treasure for the meantime:

http://i28.tinypic.com/rc22gw.jpg

Posted by: Patty O'Green at November 23, 2010 5:58 PM

BWeaves......um......*fans self*........um...... reads "I'd watch John Barrowman kiss Spike again" over again......*fans self* repeat x 1000.

Thanks for reminding me of that HOT ep! *G*

Posted by: mc-rox at November 23, 2010 5:58 PM

I just wanted to echo the lovely replica's assertion - men who are open to same sex smootching are the best lovers.

And Patty O'Green, I'm right there with you. I don't mind slash unless it totally goes against what the characters would really do. Because I'm that type of fan.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at November 23, 2010 6:00 PM

OH my god Brokeback made me pause the movie for 15 minutes.

That tumblr is the best tumblr OF THE ENTIRE EPOCH. (Also, 'sex is not the enemy' is a good one featuring all sorts of combinations of boys and girls. It's graphic at times, and some of the photos are absolutely stunning. I feel like they've posted stuff from a number of the fuckyeah... tumblrs.)

Y tu mama tambien made me pause the movie for 15 minutes.

I hadn't seen that Chili Peppers video. I have now. I think that might be the hottest Dave Navarro's ever been.

This is my favorite Dirty Talk OF THE ENTIRE EPOCH.

Ian, CALL ME.

Posted by: Anna von Beav at November 23, 2010 6:14 PM

Unexpected first hunch that I ( hetero married woman) ENJOYED men kissing men was when I saw the film Jeffery. When Michael Weiss planted one on Steven Weber in the gym, I turned into a puddle on the floor. Patrick Stewart is lovely in the movie--unfortunately he wasn't playing tonsil hockey with his lover in the film.

Posted by: vllach at November 23, 2010 6:17 PM

I would also like to jump on the "Hetero women who *heart* gay porn" band wagon.

I stumbled across the US version of Queer As Folk and honestly my life has not been the same since. There's just something about two attractive men all over each other that gives me the tingles in the best of places.

Posted by: Citabria at November 23, 2010 6:39 PM

"I'd watch John Barrowman kiss Spike again"
As much as I appreciated the combined hotness of the two guys, the kiss left me underwhelmed. Ianto kissing Jack in "To The Last Man", now THAT was hot.

Posted by: Irina at November 23, 2010 6:57 PM

Ever since I saw Ai No Kusabi I wanted to find out more about Yaoi. I was hooked. What was not to like? Pretty men, emotionally charged story and a lot of gratiutous sex. I was 15 and I wanted to see more of it. I was never so turned on. Straight porn was boring; I mean the visual really wasn't there regardless of how sweaty they were. Boys love novels are better than harlequin stories, and some slash fanfiction out there are quite good. I recommend Yaoi manga for those who want to delve into the genre. Happy reading!!

Posted by: Tallulahc at November 23, 2010 7:00 PM

MyySharona:
Gay man and cross-genre porn connoisseur here. Sometimes it's necessary to make a distinction. There is actual lesbian porn that looks nothing like the girl/girl that's made for straight men. The straight men who consume girl/girl porn would go completely limp watching real lesbian porn made by and for stone butches who couldn't give a shit about what men want to see.

Girl/girl scenes in straight porn annoy the hell out of me, and it has nothing to do with my being gay, by the way, but rather because I can't stand seeing people who aren't particularly interested in each other having any kind of sex. How did Wanda Sykes put it? "Licking p**sy like they're on Fear Factor." And gay-for-pay guys giving BJs is just as bad.

Posted by: Jerry at November 23, 2010 7:54 PM

This video from Ima Robot always gets me for some reason. It's just fun (though the song is not great) until the 2:53 mark, and then things get so strangely erotic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQVXOBNU5E

That's Alex Ebert, who is now Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, and Brady Corbet in drag.

Posted by: lucy at November 23, 2010 8:40 PM

While we're on the subject of guy on guy, this just in:

You gay Catholic male prostitutes are not NECESSARILY going to go to hell if you wear a condom.

I hope that clears things up.

-- Pope Benedict

Posted by: , at November 23, 2010 8:42 PM

Huh. Fair enough. I hadn't really thought about it before but I can definitely understand the appeal of MM (male on male) sex to hetero women. It's not something that's openly portrayed often in our media, obviously; a lot of bias remains.

I think part of the international tolerance for FF sexuality over MM (given the overall intolerance for homosexuality in general) comes from the expected behaviour of women. In most countries in the world women can hold hands as friends and walk around, but if men do so it's questioned. A certain level of physical intimacy is expected and accepted among women (and I've seen it myself many times) from Japan to Italy to America that is seen as forward or overtly sexual in nature among men. That in turn contributes to the considerably greater mainstream acceptance of FF porn compared to MM.

I think another obvious factor was the patriarchal sexism of the last century; most of the media were controlled by men and catered to men's tastes, and so there were a lot more things men would like to see as a result. And so although films like Brokeback Mountain are rare enough to be counted on the thumbs of one hand, we have several current films like, say, Black Swan with Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis, in a fairly mainstream motion... you know, thingy. With those two talented, lovely... they portray dancers doing Swan Lake, and there's rivalry, and

Sorry, I forget where I was going with that.

But I can see how straight women would find MM porn appealing. In the abstract.

Posted by: foolsage at November 23, 2010 9:03 PM

OH MAH GAH, lucy, you are my new favorite with that video. OHMAHGAH.

Posted by: Anna von Beav at November 23, 2010 9:05 PM

Wow, that tumblr site set my pants on fire, and not because I was liar. HOT

Posted by: jzhz at November 23, 2010 9:24 PM

hell yes!

I had never really thought about it, but then I became a fan of Adam Lambert and it just so happens he likes to tongue down his bassist during every concert (and his bassist, Tommy, is straight). It's about the damn hottest thing I have ever seen. It is also the point in the show where the mostly-female audience goes batshit insane, so it appears we are not alone in our appreciation of dudes kissing dudes.

Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WtCJX1YmtU


Posted by: Twinkle at November 23, 2010 9:38 PM

For me it was all about Queer as FOlk US. Gale Harold was THE sex and therefore, as a teenage straight girl, he made ANY sex with ANYONE hot. That's how I came to realize guys kissing guys is hot... but then again I've always enjoyed watching people kiss. I'm a bit voyeuristic like that. Boiler Room episode on MSCL?

Posted by: petalfrog at November 23, 2010 10:18 PM

....aaaaaand Twinkle gets added to my favorites list as well.

Now if you all will excuse me, I'ma open up some tabs in my browser and have a little special alone time.

Posted by: Anna von Beav at November 23, 2010 10:33 PM

Must chime in on the US Queer as Folk love. That show changed my world and made me realize what all the fuss over slash was about. Gale Harold is a god.

And oh damn, Adam Lambert... I will defend you and your stage kissing until the end of time.

Posted by: CrystalW187 at November 23, 2010 10:50 PM

I'm straight, girly-girl and I will never understand the appeal of watching two men make out. I mean, more power to them, but slashing isn't for me. *shrugs*

Posted by: Tina at November 24, 2010 1:17 AM

I can't believe I'm de-lurking to opine about this.

"If the latter is what you’re most interested in, then male-on-male erotica has the same advantage for straight women that lesbian erotica has for straight men - it’s twice the number of the gender you’re attracted to with no distracting members of the gender you aren’t"

OK, so I watch yaoi, that is my porn. And weirdly enough, women will sub themselves in for one of the dudes and this is a whole thing in yaoi. Usually one of the guys is smaller/more feminine/ more vulnerable, and this is the dude women can pretend to be. And I actually don't like this at all-- I want two DUDES, not a dude and a twink, but hey. If you're interested.

Posted by: Yaoi fangirl at November 24, 2010 2:43 AM

pickled tink - you may enjoy some of Katherine Kerr's work then. If I recall correctly there's quite a lot of hot man on man action in her work. But much of it is domination and non-consensual so that may not be your thing.

MyySharona : "Because, yeah, lesbian porn is SUPER accurate (with the implants, and the nails, and the makeup, and the lame, timid attempts at cunnilingus and give me a fucking BREAK)"

You're watching the wrong lesbian porn. Also you're about ten years out of date. As Jerry says these days there's more and more being made for lesbians, by lesbians.
There is also as much variety in the lesbian content as there is in gay porn, from timid gay-for-pay to passionate deep licking, from hesitant 'first-time' seductions to rough and/or kinky full on action. If you're curious, go and have a look, it sounds like you'll be surprised and pleased by what you find.

Jerry "The straight men who consume girl/girl porn would go completely limp watching real lesbian porn made by and for stone butches who couldn't give a shit about what men want to see"

Wrong! Why you gotta be so heterophobic? Also, what makes you think you know what straight men like?
Straight man and cross-genre porn connoisseur here.

Posted by: Dave at November 24, 2010 9:23 AM

"I’d prefer, frankly, that no one perform any sexual act solely for the titillation of others."

Party-Pooper!

Posted by: ada at November 24, 2010 9:51 AM

So a curious question, is it better when it's two straight guys doing it for tittilation and maybe a little homoerotic bromance, or is it hotter when it's two mo's who are really into one another?

If it's the latter methinks me and the Mr should put together a little website

"bitchy gays gone wild"

it'd be a hit i think. Maybe we can get Jeremy Feist to guest star

Posted by: Yankee Sodomite at November 24, 2010 10:06 AM

Glad you enjoyed the video Anna von Beav! Now I need to learn the ridiculously awesome dance they do.

Posted by: lucy at November 24, 2010 10:08 AM

@Yankee Sodomite, I can only answer that from the other side, but people always say I'm a bit of a girl, which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact gender-related personality prediction is bullshit, hold on, I'm getting off topic:

Personally, to me, it is entirely related to how much they are enjoying it themselves. If the girl's are just into it for the tittilation factor, but are absolutely loving being the centre of attention, totally turned on by the boundary-pushing nature of the event - then that's really hot. But if they're totally into each other, and really enjoying the kiss entirely for itself, that can be really hot too. But I'd feel more comfortable enjoying the sight of the former, because the latter may not be intended for public consumption, if you know what I mean.

Posted by: Dave at November 24, 2010 10:30 AM


I'm glad you liked it, AvB! Here is another from that same night... he was in Amsterdam and supported the local customs during his encore :) the kiss doesn't happen until he starts Whole Lotta Love.

http://www.youtube.com/user/suz526#p/u/32/RY7kbII9oG8

Posted by: Twinkle at November 24, 2010 12:35 PM

@Tallulahc

You are now mon favori personne!

Ai No Kusabi (for me at least) is the Holy Grail of Yaoi. A masterful and utterly gorgeous story, with some seriously hot sex scenes.

Posted by: Ilmarien at November 24, 2010 2:59 PM

I just typed two words into google search and it was.. enlightening.

Naruto + Yaoi.

I don't think the bible approves of brothers doing that sort of thing to eachother...

Posted by: Yankee Sodomite at November 24, 2010 4:39 PM

Delurking to say: This is the best comment thread ever!

Posted by: Monti at November 24, 2010 11:14 PM

Sick, snowbound, and restless in the middle of the night: Thank you, sweet baby jesus, for leading me to this thread.

Posted by: Edwina the Magnificent at November 25, 2010 5:28 AM

Jerry and Dave

Thanks for the links guys, you're right. This is WAY better. My world is being rocked.

Posted by: MyySharona at November 25, 2010 6:22 PM

As a hetero female slash fanfiction writer who started writing because of the canon slash of Torchwood. HELL TO THE YES! One hot boy, yummy, two hot boys snogging, even better. I've had gay guys comment on my stories that they like what I write and that I write them as boys.

Actually the original slash pairing is Holmes/Watson and the first fanfiction about them was written by men. Those lovely Edwardian gentlemen who used to have meetings and read their stories to each other. Some of those stories might even have the characters in a relationship together. Kirk/Spock brought it more mainstream but they weren't the original slash pairing. ;)

I'm now in Star Trek and sorry the new film killed the Kirk/Spock. It's all about the Kirk and Bones bb!

Posted by: noo at November 25, 2010 10:30 PM

Yaoi is porn for girls, but it's not porn for gay guys. Basically every yaoi has some semblence of plot, however awful it is, and one of the men involved could be replaced with a woman and nothing would change outside of who'd read or watch it. In Japan, gay porn is considered to be about two ultra masculine guys with no romance whatsoever, not about effeminate drinks of water who could be replaced by women.

Basically, yaoi and yuri are about the romance, no matter how terrible the romance is, but they have to have some level of romance in order to qualify, otherwise you're just reading porn. There's nothing unusual about someone liking mindless porn with no pretension of story, be they man or woman, I just wanted to clear it up.

Women in my experience love sex just as much as men, but the difference between men and women in my experience isn't that one loves sex more than the other, but women have a specific, spread out variety of things that they like. Some men who are considered hearthrobs by some are considered ugly by others, and not on a basis of personality or talent, but on a basis of some prefer one look and some prefer the other. Just as there are a wide variety of ways women get off, but pretty much everything works the same on men. It's not the love, it's the variety.

Posted by: *Asterisk* at December 5, 2010 7:48 PM