Pajiba

Elite squad, memory wipes, ..oh brrrrrother, sounds suspiciously like the anime Gunslinger Girl (which wouldn't make it the first time Whedon has ripped-off Japanese animation).

It won't make it past the 8th episode.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEDON!

I love life.

Fuck Fox and their new show policy. Fuck them right in the ear.

Fingers tentatively crossed for the new Whedon venture, because Lord knows I love him, but hopes sufficiently low to avoid breakage of my poor, withered puppy hating heart.

As someone who grew up with the X-Files in middle and high school but swiftly abandoned it well before graduation (somewhere before the "we killed the Lone Gunmen!" mark) I can only hope the X-Files move isn't just a huge pile of suck.

However, when was the last time that was true? Oh yeah, 1999.

PS: If Doggett and/or that other chick agent return...I don't even want to know the movie exists. Man, I didn't realize I still felt so strongly about this...

I am officially of the opinion that any Whedon news is good news, and if anyone can make that idea work it is him. Although, I do have to say that I'm not the biggest Eliza Dushku fan - I didn't like her that much as Faith, and I didn't like her that much as Tru. Oh well, fingers crossed.

Mmm...Joss...Mmm...I'm looking forward to this like a fat kid being told he's going to a buffet. Of course the consequences could be the same...a bloated uncomfortable feeling followed by pain when Fox screws it all up again. Sigh. How cool would it be though if Joss could get some of his regulars involved as well...mmm Adam Baldwin on something that doesn't bore me like Chuck.

P.S...I remember Airbourne...even at the time I watched it I was cringing for Seth and Jack.

So Joss has officially become the abused girlfriend that keeps returning to her asshole partner because this time he promises to change. Why in the hell would he return to Fox? As much as I love the guy I think he's masochistic, I really do. Sounds cool but yeah, not gonna make it a season on gorram Fox. He should take it to ABC, sure they run 25 minutes of ads for every hour of programming but at least they tend to stick with shows for at least a full season. Even if they are unceremoniously dumped after an unresolved season finale (Invasion).

The X-Files is coming out this summer? I swore it was 2009. Must not be very CGI heavy if they are only going into production 7 months before release.

I am a massive fan of Firefly, but you have to wonder why Joss Whedon would go back to Fox after the way they screwed him last time.

Surely a writer of his standing could take his scripts to any network and be sure of better treatment?

Maybe he's the equivalent of those girls with low self esteem, who think their boyfriend is going to be different if they take him back just one more time...

Good luck Joss.

Rob - Great minds think alike eh?

I really hope that the truth is still out there.

"we killed the Lone Gunmen!"

Wait. They did what?!?!

Simon B.: I was thinking the same thing.

David Duchovny why don't you love me?

I agree, Simon B...you'd think after all this time the name Joss Whedon would open more doors for him. But maybe he's still not regarded as one of the "door-openers" yet...although I don't see why not. Regardless, I'm gonna try to catch as much of the show as they'll allow to air...simply because I'm like Pavlov's dogs: mention Joss Whedon and I start salivating and compulsively pressing my remote control in a deseperate attempt to find whatever his name is associated with.

'But here's the thing: This is Fox. Fox, people. The network is notorious for greenlighting shows and yanking them after one or two episodes if the ratings don't match whatever tremendously inflated vision of "American Idol"-level success was predicted.'

Exactly - its like shooting yourself in the foot. Why would you do it Josh? Why? Fingers crossed for this series.

BLA, my XF bitterness has a yet-to-be-determined half-life; I'm still pissed off all these years later.

And because I'm not one to return to get battered yet again,* I will remain aloof unless and until I hear that the finished movie does not suck.

*trying for a Unified Theory of Pajiba post

I have moderate hope for the Stones/Scorsese project. Okay, that's a total lie, I want it to be amazing.

Love how the comment thread turns into a massive circle jerk whenever Joss Whedon comes up.

My gut reaction to a new X-Files movie is, why beat a dead horse? But then I started remembering just how good the X-Files could be when it was really good, especially the stand alone episodes. If this movie can recapture that then I'm really excited. Plus, my love for David Duchovny has been renewed now that I get to watch him each week in Californication. He's totally my adult Johnny Depp.

The biggest problem I see with the X-Files is, THEY KILLED EVERYBODY, who's left apart from Smolder and Red?

Love how the comment thread turns into a massive circle jerk whenever Joss Whedon comes up.

You say it like it's a bad thing raspberry beret.

Considering that Firefly, BtVS and to some extent Angel are seriously beloved amongst the majority of Pajibans for reasons that would take far too long to go into it's not really surprising is it? It'd be like news of a new Wes Anderson or Judd Apatow feature - the readership likes what it likes.

Oh and comments re great minds and the similar thought patterns thereof are also apt I feel.

My heart is warmed by the thought of a new Whedon venture!

Of course, that'll make it all the more painful when Fox, evil empire that it is, crushes said warmed heart by giving the latest Joss show the heave ho.

Even though I'm already anticipating the vicious cycle, I still can't help but be excited.

Love how the comment thread turns into a massive circle jerk whenever Joss Whedon comes up.

See what I'm talking about, B-Slim?

apropos of Whedon returning to FOX, it's because Eliza Dushku was already locked into a deal with them and 'Dollhouse' was developed with, for, and around her. He had no choice. I really really hope FOX doesn't fuck this up, hopefully they leared some kind of lesson from what happened with 'Firefly". For my part I've decided to remain optimistic even if it kills me, and do whatever it takes to boost the ratings when the time comes, even if that means sneaking into my neighbors homes and tuning them in against their wills.

My ex was a huuuuge fan of Buffy, Hercules and Xena. Being somewhat snotty, I made fun of him endlessly (quite petty for someone who'd have nightmare of missing Dr. Quinn, I admit). For his sake I put my preconceived notions aside and gave these shows a try. While I was pleasantly surprised by Hercules and Xena (so campy!), to this day I can't stomach Joss Whedon's dialogue. Five minutes in and my brain goes on snappy one-liners overload. The same thing happened with Firefly/Serenity, which I tried very hard to like because of Nathan Fillion.

That Stones doc looks awesome. And I don't even really like the stones. I will be seeing that simply because Scorsese is my god.

I LOVE Airborne.

Love how the comment thread turns into a massive circle jerk whenever Joss Whedon comes up.

raspberry beret--two questions:
1) How is this thread a "circle jerk" about Joss Whedon? Be specitfic.
2) I don't recall ever seeing your handle here before. Was it your intention to introduce yourself in this fashion--with a faux-snarky non sequitur?

How great would it be if the "elite squad of covert operatives" that Echo works with called themselves The Bunnymen, and Echo turned out to be a mechanical entity?

Hehehehe every time I see a description with the words:

Elite

Squad

Operatives

Covert

the acronym S.U.C.K.S. flashbacks in my mind, Jason Bourne style.

Alright, I am one who believes shows and movies live and die on their own. I don't care who's connected to them, some things just cannot be saved. I didn't watch Buffy (*ducks*) but I did watch Firefly and Serenity through netflix and enjoyed both a great deal. But I'm still gonna need convincing on this new series even if Joss Whedon is involved. It sounds like it could be pretty good, but it also sounds like it could be unbearably awful.

As for the X-files movie, I'm positive that my mother will force me to go to that with her no matter how bad it looks. The lady liked her X-Files until Mulder left.

All we are saying, is give Whedon a chance!

*shouting from sideline*

Go Jerce!
Go Jerce!
Go Jerce!

As far as Whedon's name being a "door-opener", it ain't, really. He's nowhere near the Bochco/Kelley league, and the networks have beaten both of those guys around the head and shoulders more times than you can shake a stick at. Whedon had two desperately-loved-by-their-fans series (Buffy and Firefly) that sucked in the ratings, one kinda-loved-by-fans series that hung on long enough to make syndication (Angel), and a movie that his most ardent fans were sure would bring the masses a-runnin'(Serenity). Said movie hit the BO wall in a crash more fiery than Steve McQueen driving a Pinto with a back seat full of home-grill propane tanks. Tack on Alien Resurrection, a mess onscreen even if the original screenplay was as good as some claim. It still didn't kick start the Alien series. If you look at TV the way execs do, Whedon's really not much better than Jason Katims.

I think raspberry beret might be referring to the common group-think idea that Whedon is incapable of producing bad or uninteresting TV. That's the same attitude that, say, fans of Hannah Montana possess. Just because the object of idolatry is more exalted doesn't make it any less subjective.

That said, Dushku's rhinoplasty is looking scary.

While I can certainly appreciate and respect those who worship Whedon, I'm of the opinion that once you've seen one of his series, you've seen them all.

His characters are all archetypal and the dialog and delivery repetitive.

Said movie hit the BO wall in a crash more fiery than Steve McQueen driving a Pinto with a back seat full of home-grill propane tanks.

Urmmm, no. As of right now, world wide gross for Serenity is just about dead even with production cost. I realize you were exaggerating for effect, but comparing a supernova to a lit fart don't make me warmer.

Overall it's lost a bit of money as of today, but it's a tiny blip on the cinema radar in terms of economic thumbs up or thumbs down -- and no one from Whedon's camp ever said it was going to be huge. And it's hardly finished in terms of a long-term cash stream, with continued DVD sales and heavy rotation on premium pay cable. It hasn't even hit rotation on basic cable yet, which will boost another round of DVD sales.

Overall it's lost a bit of money as of today, but it's a tiny blip on the cinema radar in terms of economic thumbs up or thumbs down -- and no one from Whedon's camp ever said it was going to be huge. And it's hardly finished in terms of a long-term cash stream, with continued DVD sales and heavy rotation on premium pay cable. It hasn't even hit rotation on basic cable yet, which will boost another round of DVD sales.

You could say the same thing about Waterworld, or I Think I Love My Wife. Point is, Whedon acted like a movie would do the trick. His cult brayed endlessly that this, this would show the heathen. It didn't happen. I also believe that you're overestimating the effect of a basic-cable rotation on Serenity's future DVD sales. It will continue to sell, as does almost every product.

I realize that your overall fiscal point is correct, because any movie with a theatrical release will eventually make money. By that same standard means the Buffy the movie is every bit as successful as Buffy the series.

...but 'Airborne' was awesome.

Described on imdb as "...the 'Citizen Kane' of teenage rollerblade movies!" Hahahaha

Jerce:
1) I don't wish to discount genuine zeal for his work - it's just that the fervent praise of so many commentators takes on a bit of self-congratulatory tone for me - a sort of hymnal affectation that gets tiring. The lines become indistinguishable and I find them a little boring. 'Tis all.
2) I've posted before, so no, my comment was not engineered to make some sort of grand entrance. But thanks for the warm welcome nonetheless.

By that same standard means the Buffy the movie is every bit as successful as Buffy the series.

No, it doesn't. It means that Buffy the movie didn't "hit the wall like a flaming" whatever. This is a spectrum, not a standard, because there's sliding scale of production cost vs. revenue realized over time that sharply impacts whether something is a "flameout."

As for Waterworld, talk about apples and oranges. When a studio spends $200M to produce a picture, it's a catastrophic failure to have to wait ten years for it to break even. When they spend $39M and the movie breaks even two years later, it's "meh."

I'm not saying Serenity was a commercial success, but hyperbolizing its alleged failure doesn't help the argument that Whedon's products underperform commercially. They absolutely do. But Hollywood relies heavily on the concept that there will be a reliable stream of second- or third-tier movies every month that will just about break even, then produce ongoing streams of revenue into perpetuity. The studios couldn't survive without that river of undistinguished films.

Box office gross of Serenity aside, the scene where Serenity flies straight at the Alliance with dozens of Reavers behind them is one of the best action scenes in recent memory. The movie kicked unholy ass but that scene alone is worth buying HD for.

"...the scene where Serenity flies straight at the Alliance with dozens of Reavers behind them is one of the best action scenes in recent memory..."

*************************************************

This is true, it was almost Han Solo good.

Anyone notice that Joss directed last night's episode of The Office?

Hee. Bitca. Ah, Xander.

As for why he's going back to Fox, as I understand it Eliza talked him into it, as she thought it was a good show and apparently Fox was the only network biting.

Joss Whedon is a limited writer who can't write for men to save his life.

Let's review -- Buffy the movie, a failure. Buffy the TV series -- a cult show run into the ground (anyone see the miserable last two seasons) with the star alienated by Joss's mishandling. Angel a derivative series (Forever Knight 2) with limited appeal (and in the end, very little for men). Serenity/Firefly a total sci-fi failure. Joss suffered creative burnout, reportedly could not even deliver a Wonder Woman draft merely an outline, which ended up cancelling the whole product.

He's said he'll never work with Fox again, yet after burning bridges in the Movie community (Universal, Warner) he's back at Fox.

The concept sucks, sci-fi is a men's genre and Joss CANNOT write for Men. His consistent elitism, social removal from ordinary people, and social disdain/distance from ordinary people makes him about as likely as say, Don Cherry, creator of Desperate Housewives to be successful with a genre show.

He is good at dialog, and some character creations years ago, but seems to require a collaborator who can connect with ordinary people and not those in Hollywood. It's not as if Joss can understand or connect to the concerns of people who work for a living, consider America basically good, and themselves to be basically decent people, and disapprove of crossing moral boundaries.

The concept of course sucks -- Quantum Leap/Pretender had: a. a male lead connecting to his family; b. the lead helping people who deserve it; c. the same character traits/personality throughout. Eliza doubtless thought it was "cool" to play lots of different characters like an acting class, but that's not what guys watching sci-fi want IMHO.

Congratulations, Jim Rockford. I think that is the first post to have enough stupidity to induce aneurysms in whoever reads it. Well done!

*golf clap*

and i'm waiting for nathan's guest appearance on the show

"sci-fi is a men's genre"

Wait. What?

Even if that was true, which I obviously think is total crap, then surely having a sci-fi writer out there who "caters to women" (again utter bollocks considering the number of guys on Pajiba alone who are crazy about Whedon's various ventures) would be good for increasing the audience?

Your argument doesn't work even if you take your, in my opinion, false assumptions to be true. The logical hemisphere of my brain just suffered a meltdown. Looks like you were right about the aneurysms V.

"sci-fi is a men's genre"

Balls.

The only Sci-fi that alienates Women is the type that's all space battle and no character.

As to the breakdown of Mr Whedon successes and relative failures I submit that so long as he's working within television rather than film we can continue to trust him. Fox may break our hearts but Joss is forever. (Those who love him will notice that I've chosen to blank out the horror of the potential slayers with their whingy ways and utterly appalling accents. No, really, I've moved on).
A series is about the characters, a film is about the story. If Mr Wheedon is momentarily off form at any point during a series then it's still worth watching. When he's on form then there is really no one that can touch him.

At least they're using Eliza instead of J Alba. I hate to diss Joss Whedon, but doesn't this sound like that show from a while back with Alba? Dark something...dark-photography-so-I-can-never-catch-a-good-glimpse-of-her-ass or something like that...Dark Angel! (seriously, I really was drawing a blank). It's sounds a little different, what with the Universal Soldier-like theme(*ahem*)...speaking of which... doesn't it now sound like a DIRECT combination of the two?

And I liked 'Airborne' AND 'Waterworld'...I didn't just lose my cred, did I?

Joss Whedon. SQUEEEEEE