Michael Jackson died this evening of cardiac arrest. The 50-year-old was on the eve of debuting his series of concerts at London’s O2 Arena. When I first heard the news, I have to be honest, I didn’t really believe it. Not in a way where I felt shocked, but in a way where I literally did not believe it. I was like, “Yeah fucking right, this is a sham.” The thought crossed my mind that maybe he was trying to get out of the London shows. Recent rumors have been that he was only going to perform for 13 minutes and that he had been making frequent doctor visits. However, those are just rumors. The facts are that he was troubled, but that he was given the title “King of Pop” for a reason. Just the response of the world to his death proves that. Aside from all the obvious jokes that people can make about him and his life, he left a great legacy of art and he did his part by way of philanthropy. That’s a lot more than I can say for a lot of other so-called pop stars these days.
As far as his catalog of music, of course everyone’s mind goes straight to the Thriller album. I was really young when “Thriller” came out and all I know is that it freaked me the fuck out. As I’ve gotten older, I can appreciate it for all it’s worth. But can “Smooth Criminal” get a little love? This is the first Michael Jackson moment, for me personally, where I was really mesmerized. Was it a movie? Was it a video?? What the freak WAS this?? All I knew was that I loved it.
And in my opinion, from his best years, The Jackson 5. MJ took Smokey Robinson’s “Who’s Loving You,” flipped it, smacked it and rubbed it down. He tore that shit up in the best way possible.
Troubled or not, the man brought a lot to this world and with that he will never die. After experiencing the five stages of grief in a matter of hours I’ll leave it to Abba to explain my feelings: “Thank you for the music, the songs I’m singing. Thanks for all the joy they’re bringing. Who can live without it, I ask in all honesty? What would life be?”
No matter what weird shit he went through, the man was a musical genius. This news is devastating. Much love and respect to you, Michael. Rest in peace.
Posted by: Brie at June 25, 2009 10:00 PM
When THRILLER was at the top of the charts and Michael Jackson ruled the world, I was a junior in high school who smoked dope and played in a punk band like all my SST heroes, and I essentially hated anything and everything that even caught a whiff of the Billboard charts.
But damn if I didn't own that THRILLER album.
He was huge. He was certainly bigger than my own stupid punk righteousness. He was my generation's Elvis, really.
At least he's finally at peace. I grew up knowing mostly the dark side of the king. But I recently discovered his musical side, and in that respect, he was a legend.
Michael Jackson was the Mike Tyson of music. The undisputed champion with a personal life so fucked up, you feel both pity and revulsion for him at the same time. If only he had another chance. I hope someone good's looking after his kids.
He summed himself up best with this line from the song "Thriller."
"'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
Girl, I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, thriller, ow!"
I was just woken up 5 minutes ago by the news that MJ is dead. I'm not a huge fan or anything, but really, is there anyone out there who doesn't enjoy his music? I've never known a world in which MJ didn't exist, even if for most of that he was a joke.
R.I.P MJ.
Posted by: Chugga at June 25, 2009 10:07 PM
I hope he has finally found the peace that he has spent his life struggling for.
The world sucks just a little more than usual tonight.
Posted by: Miss_E at June 25, 2009 10:07 PM
Michael Jackson, along with Judy Garland and other chewed-up-and-spit-out celebrities, will be known as much for their talent as for the absolute toll being famous and public took on their lives.
The saddest part is that millions (if not accumulated billions) of people all over the world would have told MJ sincerely that he was beautiful and gifted just the way he always was since he was in his Jackson 5 years.
Posted by: returnofthesmith at June 25, 2009 10:08 PM
I was in Toys 'R Us after work and one of the cashiers hung up the phone and told the cashier that was helping me that Michael Jackson was dead. The cashier and I both had the exact same reaction, that the other cashier was totally goofing us. Then I got in the truck and I heard on the radio that it was confirmed and I teared up a little.
And, I have to say that Smooth Criminal was always one of my favorite songs and videos. Mesmerizing is a good word for it.
Posted by: elsie at June 25, 2009 10:09 PM
This is the saddest thing. I really feel like this is in the end of an era. This guy was such an integral part of my childhood. So weird.
Posted by: tt_marie at June 25, 2009 10:09 PM
Meh, I feel bad for him on some level simply because he died so young, but there is no personal sense of loss for me. I'm really not looking forward to the media shitstorm that is going to be the next week or so. Anyways, I'll leave now and let you guys get back to it.
*Hides under rock*
Posted by: the_wakeful at June 25, 2009 10:10 PM
Just this morning a Pajiba Love link reignited my love for Moonwalker.
Posted by: Amy at June 25, 2009 10:13 PM
I can't say I was ever into his music, and I never really paid attention to him until he was crazy and everyone was hating on him, but this still makes me sad. If only because it truly is an end of an era, where the King of Pop is no more.
Word on Smooth Criminal. Some of my favorites were also: Annie Are You OK, Dirty Diana and Billie Jean.The J5, well, we don't even have to discuss how awesome that was.
Say what you will about the man and his non-music tribulations, but he had mad talent and there isn't a pop music artist that can even come close to touching his achievements.
Posted by: admin at June 25, 2009 10:20 PM
Oh god, "Who's Loving You" is my absolute favorite song by MJ.
Is it bad that all I can think of is my missed chance to party at Neverland Ranch? Probably. Oh well. I'm not going to fake some kind of personal sadness over this, although it was definitely shocking to hear the news.
I didn't believe it either. I was at work when someone told me the news. I thought "Yeah, right, and Joshua Jackson too." Then I saw it on TV, and (of course) believed it. Farrah too. Weird day.
Posted by: Major Etiquette at June 25, 2009 10:26 PM
whatever bad that you can say about Michael Jackson, which to be fair is a hell of a lot, the dude was good. He wrote some quintessential songs for my generation and could dance like a mother fucker.
I'm with malikvlc, and I'm raising my single diamond encrusted gloved fist in the air.
R.I.P Michael, I hope you're moonwalking wherever you are.
Posted by: jackk at June 25, 2009 10:29 PM
On the way home from work I was listening to the radio and they mentioned that he died and I thought it was some radio station joke, then I changed the channel and the other station make the same joke, and I changed it again and the joke continued and I still don't think it's funny.
Posted by: annoyingmouse at June 25, 2009 10:30 PM
MJ was the first - and only - poster I ever bought for my bedroom. Loved his music, copied the dance moves, and love singing along. As I grew older I realized what a musical genius he was & felt kind of cool. I hope he finally has some peace. It will take a long while to sink in the King of Pop is no longer with us but I'm sure the media will help drill it in by dredging up every little thing from the last 50 years.
Posted by: staramour at June 25, 2009 10:30 PM
This comes as so much of a surprise. He was only 50, for Pete's sake! Part of me was hoping he'd do something spectacular on this new tour and that he'd redeem middle age for us geezers (I'm only a couple years younger than MJ). No one wants to be defeated.
Posted by: Che Grovera at June 25, 2009 10:33 PM
Holy shit! I haven't actually seen the "Who's Loving You" clip before. Incredible.
George really hit the nail on the head:
The undisputed champion with a personal life so fucked up, you feel both pity and revulsion for him at the same time.
There is no denying that he had a talent the likes of which we will never see again. I hope he's finally at peace.
Posted by: Melissa at June 25, 2009 10:35 PM
Being born in 1975, it hit me today, my childhood just died.
Despite the freakshow, you can only say
Elvis, Sinatra, and Jackson are in one and only one category.
The best of pop.
Posted by: coolio at June 25, 2009 10:38 PM
And this coupled with Joshua Jackson's passing is almost too much to bear.
Posted by: Melissa at June 25, 2009 10:38 PM
Michael Jackson was the Mike Tyson of music. The undisputed champion with a personal life so fucked up, you feel both pity and revulsion for him at the same time.
That is probably the best analogy I have ever read. Right the FUCK on.
Oh, and as I said elsewhere: fuck a Jonas Brother. They aren't even worthy to kiss the Jackson 5's shoes. Not even Tito's.
This has completely ruined my day... or even week.
Damn. Way too tragic.
I remember hearing the press conference he had announcing his concert in July. He seemed almost normal. He wasn't affecting his voice with that weird little boy quality. He sounded like a grown man and I got excited that maybe the crazy had seeped out a little and he was ready for an amazing comeback.
I love MJ's music. And his dancing. From Jackson 5 to even his last album.
This fucking sucks.
Posted by: kayla at June 25, 2009 10:40 PM
The thing is, he might have been fucked up and strange and odd and whatever . . . but there's really no disputing his talent. And that sucker had wings man, it spanned decades.
I remember dancing around to Thriller and Bad as a child, spinning around my backyard to "Liberian Girl" at age 8 convinced my parents that I really did want to go back to dance class and they made it happen. He was a freaking powerhouse and I'm sorry to hear that he's gone. I don't think anyone of my generation doesn't feel a little strange that he died.
Like a few other people have said, I'd like to think he's finally found some peace.
A truly exceptional talent. You can't even do a Top 10, maybe a top twenty.
Posted by: twig at June 25, 2009 10:49 PM
It's just odd. I thought he was going to live forever. I guess in a way he will.
RIP MJ
Posted by: general rhubarb at June 25, 2009 10:56 PM
You've all said it incredibly well. I'd only add that the little grade five kid in me - the one with the Micheal Jackson pins affixed to my little blue plastic purse, wearing my striped esprit dress and rocking some jelly shoes - just crumpled up and wailed. He was my much music, and he was my cool classic rock reference, and hell's bell he's even the reason I got on sexypeople with my jazz class Thriller outfit. I spent half the damn 90's drinking and dancing to Beat It in small pubs with my buddies with absolutely no irony, and I can't think of anyone else I'd vote as best artist of my generation.
My adult self is feeling a whole lot of complicated things, but most of all I'm so sad he missed the chance for redemption a career like his deserved.
Posted by: replica at June 25, 2009 11:00 PM
"Who's Loving You" is AMAZING. I love the Jackson Five, and Michael.... well.... Billie Jean will always be a classic. And The Way You Make Me Feel will always be my favorite 'I'm just walkin' down the street feelin' fab' song.
I remember when his music video premieres were must-see-tv events. He was truly the "King of Pop," and I will never stop dancing to "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough!" R.I.P.
Posted by: Melissa at June 25, 2009 11:07 PM
I remember when I was in High School and saw the video for Smooth Criminal. Even though I had seen other videos and heard other Michael Jackson's songs, I absolutely loved this one, the whole video, the choreography, the song, even tough it made no sense it was awesome. I usually made fun of Michael Jackson for all his scandals and wacky personality, but now I feel kind of sad to see that he's truly gone. I mean, if we can leave the worst parts of his life aside for a moment, we can truly say that Michael's death is a true loss for most of the artistic world, I can't even compare his catchy and mainstream music to the crap we have today. I'm going to watch Smooth Criminal again
Posted by: Radlum at June 25, 2009 11:10 PM
It's got to be hard for people born in the '80s and later to comprehend the extent to which MJ just ruled the world in the day, because a phenomenon like that has little chance of ever happening again. We're too scattered and fragmented and niched-up for one musician to dominate everything now.
Fucking "Off The Wall" owned the jukebox in the bar I went to most nights when I was working my first real job. The first song that came to my mind when I saw the news breaking was "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough," which I must have heard 1,002 times while slurping Stroh's at the Jury Box.
Yeah, I bought "Thriller" too. What about it, punk?
Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at June 25, 2009 11:16 PM
Wow.
I mean, yes, Michael was an extremely talented man. No doubt about it. But I, for one, do not hope he's resting in peace. I can forgive him his craziness and wackiness, and yes he had a fucked up upbringing. But that doesn't excuse, nor can I forgive, that he was also a fucking pedophile. Pedophiles don't get to rest in peace.
Posted by: Where's Your Happy Juice Now? at June 25, 2009 11:18 PM
I'll just echo what everyone else is saying: that I hope, at long last, the man has finally gone to a place where he can be at peace.
Michael Jackson WAS my childhood. He seemed like he was from another planet, in the most excellent way possible. He moved like no one else, sang like no one else, and lived this dream of a life with fairgrounds, video games, and candy all at his disposal, and all seemingly endless in supply. And then, I don't remember exactly when, he transformed into someone from another planet...in a creepy way. All of his music began to be about how he was sick of people saying bad things about him and following his every move, and all of the fun and magic fell away.
I prefer to think that Michael Jackson just disappeared after the "Dangerous" album came out and that this person claiming to be MJ the last fifteen years was some kind of impostor.
He was the most talented entertainer I've ever seen or heard, and all weirdness aside, I'm really going to miss him. Shamon, Thriller man.
Posted by: Abe Froman at June 25, 2009 11:21 PM
While as shocked as anyone, in my mind the Jackson the musical genius died long before today. Today was the end for the tabloid freakshow, the sad yet vaguely sinister source of sordid rumour.
Which is a wanky way of saying that while he lived on, I have been mourning MJ's loss to the musical world for some time now. As much as his his forthcoming tour might have reclaimed territory from the insipid funk-lite pseudo popstars that filled the void left by his departure into tabloid hell, I can't help but feel that it would have been noted more for everything but the music & performance. His skin, his latest nose, the doubtlessly bizarro backstage riders, the wierdo entourage, the outfits...
RIP MJ. As other have said, I hope you find the peace in death you never seemed to find in life.
Posted by: RandyPanTheGoatboy at June 25, 2009 11:24 PM
I love Off the Wall and a lot of songs on his other albums. His music pleasantly filled my ears as a child and teenager. He was a very talented human being.
He was also a very fucked up human being. The Michael Jackson that I loved died many years ago as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by: Groovy Violet at June 25, 2009 11:28 PM
Very beautiful written Felicia.
The man had his faults but he did without a doubt make music like no other can ever compare.
I want to thank Felicia for posting that vid of the Sullivan performance and reminding me that before there was Jacko, there was the Jackson 5, a truly amazing pop music phenomenon. You toddlers oughta check it out. "The Love You Save" is one of the greatest pop songs in the English language.
I could give two shits about his 80s noise. I never liked it. I do not begrudge the man his success with it; but, like most super-popular music (Fleetwood Mac, Carole King, Peter Frampton et al) it has more in common with elevator music or wallpaper than with true art.
King of Pop? Maybe for a while. But that's an ephemeral title, and whatever he himself may have thought, he had the crown so briefly and so long ago that it might as well have been in the Triassic.
I shall snark no more on this subject. You may now return to your middle school reminiscinces.
Every year the middle school I went to sponsored a basketball tournament amongst the local schools. So for a couple of weeks every year PE class was interrupted due to the gym being used for the tourney and we ended up sitting in the bleachers for the class period. I wasn't so much into basketball, but I did enjoy watching cute guys run and get sweaty. More importantly, I detested PE class. It was all good.
I vividly remember rocking out in the bleachers with my girlfriends to "PYT (Pretty Young Thing)" as it blasted over the sound system during one of those games. And that it why I remember that song so fondly, nearly 30 years later.
Posted by: elsie at June 25, 2009 11:32 PM
Michael Jackson wasn't one of my favorite artists. Some of his songs I liked a whole lot, others not so much. Still, it's weird that he's gone. He was so much part of the landscape, you know?
Yeah, it's just profoundly odd to think of a world without Michael Jackson in it. Good or bad, he was a definite presence, and it's weird not to have him around. Also, I've been hearing snippets of his various songs all evening, and it is apparently impossible for me to hear "I want you back" and not dance, so that's something. His best years were certainly behind him, but damn, they were some best years.
Posted by: PallasJay at June 26, 2009 12:04 AM
Right on RandyPan...the myth and legend we all admired growing up died way before today. No words...no words...RIP MJ
Posted by: Be Adequite! at June 26, 2009 12:13 AM
Don't you think I realize what's going on here, miss? Who do you think I am, huh? Don't you think I know that if I was some hotshot from out of town that pulled inside here and you guys made a reservation mistake, I'd be the first one to get a room and I'd be upstairs relaxing right now. But I'm not some hotshot from out of town, I'm a small reporter from "Rolling Stone" magazine that's in town to do an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson that's gonna be picked up by every major magazine in the country. I was gonna call the article "Michael Jackson Is Sitting On Top of the World," but now I think I might as well just call it "Michael Jackson Can Sit On Top of the World Just As Long As He Doesn't Sit in the Beverly Palm Hotel 'Cause There's No N******s Allowed in There!"
Posted by: Dristan at June 26, 2009 12:15 AM
I absolutely loved Michael Jackson's music. I can remember my family sitting around waiting for his music videos to debut - which were a big effin' event - then I'd record them and study his dance moves. His music shaped my childhood and provided a soundtrack for many family trips and memories.
R.I.P. MJ - Thanks for sharing your brilliant talent with us.
Posted by: AbbyNormal at June 26, 2009 12:17 AM
It's a damn shame. A damn shame, particularly, that most of the talk will be about "what he was", when really, nobody actually knew what he was. Everybody has been so damn busy being ready to believe every single damn rumor that flew for the last 15 years (he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber, you know!), but nobody really knows a goddamn thing, do they?
I'll tell you what I know: The Jackson 5 were amazing. Thriller was amazing. The song, the album, the video. It was groundbreaking. The man had incredible amounts of talent. He's been around for my entire life, making music. And 50 is too young to die.
It was Billie Jean that made my eyes and ears pop. Once I 'got it'.
Damn those demons.
Posted by: Odnon at June 26, 2009 12:23 AM
When Thriller came out my mom and I were living in a little rental house that was nothing but a cinder block box with a kitchenette. We had to share a bed and didn't have a color tv. We did have a record player though, and I WORE OUT that record. Some of the best memories of my childhood was when we would dance around the small living room to that record. And then I got the 45 to Man in the Mirror and played it so much she threatened to break it. What a different time.
Yes, the Michael Jackson of my childhood died a long time ago. What I would give to have that album playing right now.
Posted by: Austin asking for trouble at June 26, 2009 12:40 AM
Anna von Beaverplatz: Well written. Nothing was ever proved, no convictions ever issued. Not that the court of public opinion ever cared about such things when it came to folks that didn't lived as they were expected to.
Posted by: Julian at June 26, 2009 12:42 AM
I’m so sad tonight, he was the greatest entertainer I’ve ever seen. I was a junior in high school that night when we changed the game, without Michael Jackson there would be no MTV or VH1. The King is truly dead.
Posted by: al pacino's baby at June 26, 2009 12:44 AM
That guy in the picture up top? Coolest motherfucker who ever moonwalked the earth.
Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at June 26, 2009 12:59 AM
This truly was shocking news. People can say what they want about Michael Jackson (and they will), but everyone will always remember where they were when they heard the news of his death.
RIP, MJ.
Posted by: Meghan at June 26, 2009 1:01 AM
My memories of MJ are this strange almagamation of music and scandal. The pity and revulsion mentioned earlier, mixed with admiration.
Right around the time he was in court over the child abuse, I went to the hen's night at one of those places where you get dinner and a show. Lots of people on stage dancing, and somewhere towards the end, this performer comes on in the glove, red leather coat and hat. When he did the moonwalk, people went beserk. I thought the roof would cave in.
Let me repeat that: a half-arsed imitation doing his signature move got a standing ovation, at a time when his reputation was in the dirt. THAT'S how much power he had.
Posted by: ScienceGeek at June 26, 2009 1:13 AM
MJ, though more troubled than any one of us could imagine brought so much joy to so many people. The fascination with him in his later year stemmed not so much that he looked weird and did weird things, but the fact that he was the GREATEST. A star. A star many of us grew up with, so when his life took a downward turn (some say spiral), the fascination we all felt was...how could someone beyond human...greater than human, be so disturbed. That was the part that made us look at him and wonder. MJ truly has more than an abundance of songs on the "soundtrack to my life" (if you will). Many of his songs shaped my formative years and made me love music.
My only hope is, at the end, he knew how well loved he was.
Burn that disco out, MJ. Your contributions to pop music will be forever felt.
Posted by: Smokin at June 26, 2009 1:38 AM
Ah, nice Dristan. Beverly Hills Cop.
RIP, MJ
Posted by: g3 at June 26, 2009 2:07 AM
Dont worry, Perez Hilton had the same initial reaction as you but at least you didnt make a horrible disrespectful post claiming it, as Perez did here: http://twitpic.com/8et2f
Perez has now retracted the original post above and changed it to sympathetic ones to Michael.. pfft. Perez is an idiot.
As for MJ, RIP, I shall be having a youtube session later to pay tribute. What a loss.
Posted by: kiwigirl at June 26, 2009 2:31 AM
I still can't believe it. I mean, shit.
That's all there is in my mind: just a looping wail of "What the everloving hell?!"
Posted by: Aislinn at June 26, 2009 3:04 AM
It's good that y'all are being respectful, I remember when my childhood idol died (Eddie Guerrero, 2005).
Still love me some Jackson though, motherfucker made the best pop albums since Led Zeppelin IV, no number 1 album since Thriller has come with such quality and musicianship.
Yeah, some artists have made better records (Metallica, The Rolling Stones, Derek and the Dominoes), but only Dylan, Sinatra, Elvis, and B.B. King have the kind of appeal Jackson brought.
Goodbye, Michael Jackson. We loved, feared, worried over, reviled, and boogied to you.
I've been watching the news coverage over here in London since last night and I was just saddened by it.
Then I come over to pajiba this morning and hit play on the Who's Loving you video and I've got tears in my eyes now.
For all his faults, this is how I did like to remember him.
Posted by: Jean at June 26, 2009 4:33 AM
wow. when it was released, i was obsessed with thriller. i'd bore my mother at every dinner with the album's record breaking statistics/. then i got into "off the wall" and the jackson 5. i saw michael and his brothers on the "victory" tour. i was twelve or thirteen and my best friend gave me one of her front row seats.
i listened to thriller so many times that the songs are etched into my mind and body. when i became "cool" at 14 and discovered led zeppelin, i backlashed against MJ. years later, however, i was able to appreciate his talent, and was relieved to discover that the album with which i had been obsessed was genuinely a masterpiece.
Posted by: celery at June 26, 2009 5:24 AM
RandyPanTheGoatboy - i agree with your comments. The MJ that died was not the MJ that people fell in love with.
To me he seemed to be in decline, not just career wise but physically and mentally. He is a good example of what intense fame can do to a person.
My condolences to his family and especially his children.
Posted by: Neena at June 26, 2009 6:20 AM
Great performer, shitty human being.
If there is a god may it have mercy on his soul.
Posted by: BarbadoSlim at June 26, 2009 7:31 AM
Kinda odd that last night I was looking through the new download content on Rock Band for the first time in about a month and I saw that Alien Ant Farm's cover of "Smooth Criminal" was now on there. I turned on the preview and remember how much I liked that song (Michael's version more than AAF's). Then my wife yelled from the other room "Holy shit, Michael Jackson died." Which I obviously did not believe and had to see for myself.
He was a fucked up dude but damn that boy could move. R.I.P., MJ. Although it's completely fucked up how this utterly overshadowed Farrah Fawcett's death. She deserves some accolades of her own and most of the web has shoved her aside bare hours after dying herself to jump on the Jackson fanfare.
A line from Evita sums it up best, "Falling over ourselves to get all of the misery right."
I cannot recall a time in my life when I've become emotional over the death of a celebrity. Yesterday that changed.
Despite all the controversy and allegations and freakshow surrounding this man, he was an icon and a talent to a level that few ever attain. His contributions and influence will be felt for the rest of time.
My generation's Elvis was lost.
MJ, may you rest in peace now.
I hadn't seen the "Who's Loving You" clip until now and his voice gave me chills. The Jackson 5, Off the Wall, Thriller Michael is what I am sad about losing. Though I think I mourned that loss a long time ago. It is sad that his life turned out the way it did.
Posted by: prairiegirl at June 26, 2009 7:56 AM
I too feel really sad about this. I think it's made even sadder by the fact that his life turned into what it did. At the last he just looked so frail and small and broken. His music will absolutely live on though, and not just the oldold stuff. You know what song I loved? It was "You Rock My World" from that album that just came out in 2001 or 2002. I know people were less than receptive toward that album, but man, my sister and I loved that jam.
You know, I didn't even know he'd passed away until I got the following text message:
"Since Michael Jackson was 99% plastic, his body is going to be melted down and turned into Lego. That way, kids can play with him for a change!"
I didn't find it any less funny when I heard he actually really was dead. Amazing singer, great dancer, fucked-up individual - but one with little to no impact on my life.
Police have reported that they have released the sunshine without bail, that the moonlight has been eliminated from their investigations, the good times have an alibi, but the boogie is still being held for questioning.
As an indication of MJ's influence in the 80's he single handedly integrated MTV. Before Michael there were no black artists played. He paved the way because they had no damn choice. He was that big. Our local rock station is taking great joy in making fun of him today, but they still have the Who on their tiny little playlist, so perhaps they should just shut up.
Posted by: Mrcreosote at June 26, 2009 9:09 AM
Again sorry that he is gone and left so much unresolved. Being a teenager in the 80s, one could not go far without running into something from him. I understand his talent and his musical contribution, but as someone that never owned a piece of his music or longed to hear a song, I am just going to have to be quicker on the remote control for awhile.
Posted by: richmac at June 26, 2009 9:18 AM
little boys around the world breathe a sigh of relief as one more threat to the innocence of your childhood has passed.
Posted by: mothy at June 26, 2009 9:37 AM
"Michael Jackson was the Mike Tyson of music. The undisputed champion with a personal life so fucked up, you feel both pity and revulsion for him at the same time. If only he had another chance. I hope someone good's looking after his kids."
Posted by: George at June 25, 2009 10:06 PM
George: That's exactly how I feel, too. You nailed it!
And don't forget, Michael Jackson was Elvis' son-in-law. That was the least weird part of his life.
Posted by: BWeaves at June 26, 2009 9:38 AM
MJ was a legend. Thriller was the first album I ever bought. Like so many others I excitedly awaited his next video as a child. It's a crying shame his life became what it was before he died. I too hope he finds the peace he so desperately sought in life.
I cannot think of my childhood without thinking of Michael Jackson. His music plays in the background of so many of my fondest memories. Thriller was the first grown-up album I ever owned, and I listened to it constantly. I would jump on the tiny wooden table in our playroom and dance my little heart out. My sister and I owned a child's cassette player with a microphone, and we used to sing along to MJ's songs. Somewhere, hidden away in their basement, my parents have a cassette of my sister and me singing along to,"You Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'."
Just thinking about how much joy he brought to our small existence makes me sad. It can't imagine growing up without that incredible music.
Posted by: Kolby at June 26, 2009 9:41 AM
About the "Smooth Criminal" video: It is either a blatant ripoff of or an homage to Fred Astaire. Check out the "Murder Mystery in Jazz" at the end of "The Band Wagon".
About the pedophilia - all pedophiles have at least one thing in common, piles of kiddie porn. The cops always find it all over the house, and on the hard drives of their computers. The FBI found none around MJ. Make of that what you will.
Dude was weird, no doubt, but at least not convicted.
RIP, MJ.
-Ralphie
Posted by: ralphie at June 26, 2009 10:00 AM
Ralphie: It's an homage.
A good friend of mine called me and told me right after they started reporting MJ's death, and I thought she had to be kidding. Then I thought it had to be a stunt. Then I thought Michael Jackson was just faking his own death in order to go live under the O2 Arena all Phantom of the Opera-style. A Michael Jacksonless world just seems weird.
My roller derby team has decided to skate out to either Smooth Criminal or Bad for our bout this weekend.
Posted by: PaleoLithchick at June 26, 2009 10:24 AM
One dead pedophile = Good.
Posted by: Fuel at June 26, 2009 10:56 AM
Yes, there is no doubt the man was many cards short of a full deck. I even saw on the internet not so long ago a slideshow of belongings of his that were to be auctioned off, and believe me, there were many things that made your skin crawl.
But, he shaped music during my "coming of age." Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough was unlike any other song at that time, and for an 11 yr old in 1979 it was the best and most requested song at our local roller skating rink. Then all of the Billie Jean/Thriller/Beat It hits were basically a soundtrack for me from 15yrs old and through high school. My mom took me in 1984 to Dallas, Texas Stadium, to see the Victory Tour with Michael and the rest of his brothers. It was shortly after MJ's landmark appearance on the Grammys (I think) where he moonwalked and drove everyone bonkers, and the album Thriller had just come out. I will never forget the electricity in that stadium and the delirium we all felt when a rockin' Eddie VanHalen with his big hair made a surprise appearance on stage to play his guitar bit for MJ's Beat It. Let me tell you--nothing beat that for a 16 yr old at that time. So much nostalgia.
In 1990/91 when I was in London getting my masters degree in fine and decorative art from Sotheby's (art auction house) I had my semester internship in the Collector's Dept--an eclectic range of items such as dolls/coins/wine/fashion/movie & rock n roll memorabilia. Apart from the fact that I never knew what I would encounter (met Eric Clapton as he was consigning one of his guitars). One day I noticed a new "lot" that was consigned for an upcoming auction which I recognized immediately: Michael Jackson's black hat and silver glove that he wore in his video Billie Jean. We weren't supposed to handle any of these items, but during a few minutes when no one was looking, I tried both on. Just to say/know that I did (this was before all the sordid stuff came out in the news). I guess I touched history.
So, yes, by all accounts Michael Jackson was a freak, though not 100% of his own doing. But for some of us, he struck an indelible note in our lives that we so associate with growing up: our soundtrack.
Posted by: Courtney at June 26, 2009 11:09 AM
As I'm sure a bunch of you are, I'm really conflicted on this. The man will always be a musical legend, but I really can't separate him from his art. I can't help but feel that he was a sacrifice for our entertainment. It's a feeling of both pity and sadness and in part, relief. He seemed, in all the interviews they were playing last night, to just be so profoundly unhappy.
Posted by: Maggie at June 26, 2009 11:10 AM
(this is gonna be a really, really long post so, if you can't stand it, feel free to page down and not bitch bout it)
First of all, someone impale the_wakeful already. This is a page for mourners. Save the lame-o snarkiness for some other shit here. If you dont care for Mike then, BEAT IT!!!
I also need to call out on the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy
It's hard for the '80s ppl, huh? I'm 26. Sure, Thriller was released a year before I was borned.
But I don't know if it's because I'm from Malaysia or what but man oh! man Mike ruled these parts when i was 10.
Talk bout stayin power or really, really delayed transmission but yeah, i was totally into Michael Jackson those days.
I don't know if there are any Pajibans from India here but you all should know that Michael Jackson was especially important to us Indians.
I mean, the Tamil (that's the language of the South Indian state of Tamil Nadu) cinema was totally in love with him. And why he resonates so much with us , you ask?
Simple. He's a black dude and we're generally dark so, Mike became one of us without even having to ask.
Heck, we even had our own version of him, Prabhu Deva. Here's his debut video that totally propelled his career in the 90s.
I mean, like everyone's sayin, his music knows no boundaries.
I remember every kid my age then was doin Mike's signature crotch and leg combo move.
I remember this one time where this kid was doin the Jackson and kept pullin his pants up (to reveal his imaginary socks) and I was so ready to do my version when a nasty old lady stopped him. She told him to stop pullin at his pants like that, it wasn't normal apparently.
Damn you lady! That was the closest i got to doin his moves. I don't dance, you see. But just watchin Michael in action after all these years just makes me want put on some pants and start pullin at it like crazy! I have the socks this time.
Thriller scared the bejesus out of me then. The morphing part especially.
Loved the hell out of Beat It. My heart starts to race everytime I watch that video for some reason.
And my personal favorite was of course, Smooth Criminal.
I dunno man. There's just somethin bout that song that totally left me speechless after watchin it for the first time. Like I've been given the rare chance of seeing something out of this world.
The beat, the moves, the table jumping, the "Oww!", the super cool fedora tipping and of course, Michael Jackson himself.
He was God incarnate. Period.
Really jerce? 80s noise? I mean, i get that you're older and you love pre-Thriller Michael but don't for the love of all thing Holy diss 80s Michael.
Heck don't even diss 90s and 00s Michael for the rest of ya.
All this bullshit bout the real Michael having "died" a long time ago makes me wanna hurl.
How could you buy into that tabloid nonsense?!
Sure, he dangled his babies and cut up his face 19 times too much but that, is, his PERSONAL LIFE!!!
What gives you the right to judge him?!
We shud only be talkin bout Michael Jackson the artist and nothin else.
And he "died" after Dangerous? You people for real?
And, where the heck were you people when the amazin, amazin You Rock My World came out.
You people allowed yourselves to be duped by the media motherfuckers and that, is a fact! Just own up to it already.
All this outpouring of emotions would have never happened if Mike was still alive and died later from old age.
Half the ppl here wud have stayed meh bout him.
And so, here comes the sad reality...
Michael had to die to be seen for who he really was.
You people can make fun of us Indians for our religion and belief in mysticism but here's what i know or rather, feel bout Mike.
People with God given talent has always been...eccentric. In Michael Jackson's case, he can only possess such a mind blowing gift, for that long, because of the pureness of his heart.
Was it so surprising that he was taken advantage of by those cocksuckers with the molestation bullshit?
Michael Jackson really was the kid who never grew up. He really was from Neverland.
And now, at long last, Michael gets to go home.
p/s: Michael Jackson never failed us, it has always been the other way around.
Posted by: haplo at June 26, 2009 11:42 AM
That was really sweet in its heartfelt naivete, haplo. I'm cool with it.
What? Old cynics can't be softies, too?
Posted by: Che Grovera at June 26, 2009 12:03 PM
Yeah, I prefer Jackson 5-era MJ, too. Not saying he had no relevant or excellent work after that, just saying, I liked that early shit better. Plus, he still looked like black dude.
I guess people are entitled to their overly sentimental remembrances, but seeing shit like "My childhood just died" creeps me out. He was an entertainer, he didn't invent a cure for cancer or the formula for cold fusion. The celebrity worship in many cultures today is ridiculous.
Posted by: Slash at June 26, 2009 12:17 PM
Haplo,
It's possible that the_wakeful is younger than you are and for those of us that were that young and living the US, we were bombarded with news of pedophile charges against Michael Jackson for so long that... that's the only thing we ever knew of the guy, I mean sure his music is iconic, but it's hard to break that kind of media brainwashing when you're a kid.
Honestly, the only thing I thought when I heard he died was whether the Beatles catalog rights would revert back to its original owners.
I'm sorry but, it's possible that you guys will be the last generation that will still love him despite his vices and insecurities.
This has nothing to do with God or religion or race, it's just the way life is.
Posted by: Vi at June 26, 2009 12:19 PM
I was only born in '86, but I loved MJ through most of my childhood. My parents used to have video of me in the living room when we lived in England (so I would've been 4 or so) dancing along to a Michael Jackson video. I even wrote a story about me and MJ riding ponies together. My tastes gradually changed to liking much heavier music, but I still have no problem blasting an MJ song on the radio and singing along.
I'm not particularly upset, though it did startle me when I went to check my e-mail and saw the breaking news. It just seems weird, I too thought it was some sort of joke. RIP, MJ.
Posted by: Cuno at June 26, 2009 12:20 PM
"Plus he still looked like A black dude" is how that was supposed to read.
Posted by: Slash at June 26, 2009 12:20 PM
Just a reminder to all who are bending over backwards trying to gloss over his FUCKED-UP freak's addiction to little kids. As a person who has had to deal with victims of child sexual abuse I'm becoming a tad irritated with these folks.
This is no different than glossing over Hitler because he had the Autobahn built, Mussolini making the trains run on time or OJ having played greagt football. Some perspective folks over this moonwalking pedophile.
And big, nice, pre-emptive FUCK YOU to anyone that tries that "this thread is for fans" bullshit on me.
Posted by: BarbadoSlim at June 26, 2009 1:41 PM
I was born in 81, Thriller was the first album I owned, and The Wiz is the first movie I ever saw.
For a time, Michael Jackson was the only entertainment I knew. He was amazing, and he will be missed.
And BarbadoSlim, here's all I'm saying - Michael Jackson was never convicted of any charges, and the circumstances were always fishy. No one knows what really happened, and you wouldn't want someone to condemn you for something that you (maybe) really didn't do. So, just try to be objective.
Posted by: Courtie at June 26, 2009 2:29 PM
Mmmmmm, objective....lemme see
Hitler, Mussolini and OJ were never convicted so I guess there's some sort of argument there. Me? I'll just keep judging the "Gloved One" on the basis of him having spent more than 40 million bucks on hush blood money all the families.
Posted by: BarbadoSlim at June 26, 2009 2:36 PM
Edit:
...as hush money FOR all the families.
And seriously? All it takes to take to get away with raping children, in this brave new world, is a hit record and a jerry curl?
You people make me sick.
Posted by: BarbadoSlim at June 26, 2009 2:38 PM
So, I take it you're not a Roman Polanski fan, eh?
Posted by: PaleoLithchick at June 26, 2009 2:58 PM
RE "Honestly, the only thing I thought when I heard he died was whether the Beatles catalog rights would revert back to its original owners."
I don't believe so. I'm guessing any ownership reverts to his estate. Whoever is in charge of that (let's hope he had the presence of mind to at least have a will) will get to decide that. Or maybe he has some provisions for it in his will (that we hope he has).
RE "And big, nice, pre-emptive FUCK YOU to anyone that tries that 'this thread is for fans' bullshit on me."
I do agree with this. If you want a site full of nothing but loving tributes to Michael Jackson, you need to go elsewhere. In fact, I encourage it.
RE the kid touching thing: I'm generally in the "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" camp, but there were enough downright fucked-up actions on his part to make the suspicions legitimate. Normal adult men don't have sleepovers with other people's kids. They just don't. That right there is the hallmark of a pedophile. Neverland Ranch was like one, big blinking neon sign that screamed "Keep your kids away from me!" Well, to parents with any goddam brains, that is.
Posted by: Slash at June 26, 2009 3:01 PM
Not to say that I really know either way, but the whole thing with the molestation accusations... I honestly don't believe he did molest anyone. I think MJ was fucked up and never matured properly into a normal adult man. I think he felt like a kid and had empathy for kids and felt that he could trust kids in a way he could never trust adults. I think that he had kids over at his place all the time and thought that it was okay to have the relationships that he did with them. He did often admit that he welcomed children into his bed. This creeped me out, but I really think he viewed that as an innocent thing. After the last trial I think he finally learned that he couldn't trust kids either, and that he couldn't behave in that way. It just isn't okay to be that strange or intimate with people, especially kids. I really think he paid his accusers off to stop having to deal with the whole dirty, mean spectacle of all of it. It seems like the end of that trial was when he really broke down and stopped being weird in that way we had become accustomed to, and just became sad-broken-sickly-old-ladyish-weird. I still think the whole thing is a real pity.
b, I am tentatively in agreement with you. I won't say I think he did or didn't do it, because I have no way of knowing...all I can say is that I think he seemed to be a broken human being with severe mental and emotional issues. I pray to God that he never molested any children b/c the thought of something like that happening to a child makes me sick. But I can't disagree with the fact that his issues and odd behavior made him an easy target for those seeking to exploit him and get paid. I don't think it's impossible that he was innocent of the charges against him. But I can't say it's impossible that he was capable of committing such acts, either.
Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe. The only thing we do know is that he was acquitted.
And I used the same argument about OJ earlier today...that just because he was acquitted doesn't mean he wasn't guilty of committing the crime. But I personally have way more doubts in this case.
On the bright side, one less pedophile in the world ain't a bad thing.
Posted by: sosumi at June 26, 2009 3:50 PM
I still can't quite believe I'm about to do this, but here goes:
Hitler and Mussolini weren't convicted because they were never charged, Slim. That leaves only OJ as a valid basis for comparison. Frankly, OJ acts a hell of a lot more guilty than MJ ever did -- probably because OJ knows that what he did was wrong. Good thing his hubris solved that problem for us. Michael Jackson's biggest crime was being strange by conventional social norms; as b already pointed out, he didn't think he was doing anything wrong (and he was never adjudged to have committed any legal wrongs). A grown man who cavorts with children and behaves childishly just isn't tolerated in real-life the way he is in a movie like Big. If MJ was truly a pedophile then he was also an accomplished actor, because he definitely pulled off "weird man-child" (and if he was that good an actor why not just go for "normal"?).
There are critters that walk like ducks and talk like ducks without being ducks, but it's so much easier to jump to the conclusion that's going to be right 99% of the time and writing off the other 1% as collateral damage.
Posted by: Che Grovera at June 26, 2009 5:40 PM
Well said b and Che Grovera.
Posted by: clarity at June 26, 2009 7:19 PM
Not trying to defend BSlim here, but it is not incorrect that MJ was a pedophile.
The problem was that he wasn't a pedophile in the usual sense where an older mature adult is taking advantage of little kids, he was a guy who kept thinking he was a little kid even after he had grown up so he thought there was nothing wrong with him being around other little kids.
If anything, he probably should have checked himself into a psych ward at some point, to at least try to recover his name a little. But he just got more and more weird, until he tarnished his name beyond repair.
If you talk to anyone under twenty, their reaction to his death is mostly irreverence.
GenX will probably staunchly defend him for as long as they can but he's not going to go down in history like Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles, Queen, Pink Floyd, or Elvis...
He'll be like... the Mike Tyson of pop.
Posted by: Vi at June 26, 2009 7:23 PM
(This is another insanely long post but... I had to quote so many people here so, bear with me or scroll away)
Thank you Che Grovera.
And yes Vi, i knew that the_wakeful was a kid the moment i read his/her post. All I'm sayin is if your mature enough to write on an adult site, you oughta think like one too.
Try pullin that shit in a funeral service and see what happens.
Aaahh...We meet at last BarbadoSlim.
No...this isn't a thread for fans, rather, a thread for mourners. But a ginormous FUCK YOU to you anyway.
Riiigghtt. You've dealt with sexually abused kids so... you now have acquired the power to not only go back in time but also to teleport to Neverland ranch and, and hold the candle up as Mike poured the wine and fed the kid drugs before sucking his dick.
I knew that 'innocent until proven guilty' was a concept that was long lost on everyone but 'acquitted' too?
Comparing Michael Jackson to fuckin' Hitler?! BRAVO!
At least with Hitler you knew he was pushin the button to gas all those poor people. That's why even the Wehrmacht cudn't take it and went after his ass. You wanna badmouth that mouthfucker, be my guest.
But to be this disrespectful to a guy who was acquitted and was clearly the inspiration for 'Big' AND, especially after he suffered an unexpected, tragic death is just......PLAIN STUPID!!!
So, your very logical reasoning is that because he paid them, therefore he's guilty?
WOW! Congratulations! [Standing ovation with people flippin in the background ala Russian circus]
b was spot on. Mike paid em to end it all. He just couldn't deal with that shit no more. Those trials pretty much killed him. Professionally (in you people's eyes neways), financially and of course, spiritually.
We make you sick? Sure, whateva man.
sosumi...please go and fuck yourself already.
As for Slash...I encourage you back to go to a site where all ignorant douches go to to bitch bout somethin they will never fully comprehend.
You don't like Mike, we get it. You think he sucked kiddie dicks, fine. BUT nothin was ever proved, ok? OK?!
So, don't diss people here when we are still in shock and grieving.
This is not the comment section for Katy Perry's album review for the love of God!
Show some iota of decency already. Jeez!
And I'm disappointed with you, Vi.
Really? He's a pedophile just for hangin around with kids?
Definition of pedophile: An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children
NOT! and i repeat NOT An adult who is CLAIMED to be sexually attracted to a child or children.
And I truly think that he wasn't "a guy who kept thinking he was a little kid even after he had grown up"
He really was a kid all along, trapped in an ever aging body.
I mean, we come here and talk bout movies and all and yet no one seems to take in the stuff movies teach ya bout life.
I've said it before, Michael Jackson is a very, very special human being.
We, Indians, believe that extraordinary people will always have a short life. And even in that short life, they will manage to touch the hearts of many.
One good example is Princess Diana. A more recent example that left me devastated was, Aaliyah.
You want to know which movies I was talkin bout? Go rent/queue/torrent/http download Powder and Phenomenon.
Powder fits in especially well here. If this doesn't jolt you people back into a civilized state of mind, then i really don't know what to say...
Seriously, all that I, Che Grovera,Courtie and b are saying is at least give the man the benefit of the fuckin' doubt already.
Dave Chappelle said it best in San Fran,
"Who knows? That's the thing, that's what I wanted to say. Who knows? Who the fuck knows?
Mike, God, and this little boy know, that's bout it. That's bout it."
Posted by: haplo at June 26, 2009 10:08 PM
Michael Jackson to me was always like that uncle who you kind of worried about, but you could never imagine your family without him. My mom was fairly young when she had me, and she keeps talking about the death of her childhood. I feel the same way. He was the Free Willy singer, the Black and White guy, and unfortunately, tabloid fodder. But, I really got into his older music later in life, and I realized he was an immense talent. He'll be missed, despite the fogginess that surrounds his legend. I loved MJ.
Rest in peace, Micheal. I hope now the will only look at your music, and leave your kidds alone.
Posted by: Magiel at June 27, 2009 5:46 AM
When I first heard of Michael Jackson's death as I got wheeled through the airport I took potshots to the point that the woman pushing me made a halfhearted attempt at dumping me out of the wheelchair into oncoming traffic. It's easy to poke and prod at the quagmire that was the entire "pedophile" fiasco, but when I considered that Michael Jackson spent his entire life being both the poster child for embattled childhood stars while simultaneously being a paradox in the same category (one that remains successful), I think people should just back off.
I can honestly believe that with the complete absence of a childhood he could believe that what he did was acceptable. I recognize that it wasn't, but I also believe that whatever wrongdoing may have occurred was blown enormously out of proportion.
Michael Jackson led a unique life, simultaneously blessed and cursed by what his enormous talent turned him into. He was enormously fucked up, but I honestly believe he never acted with sinister intentions, so lumping him in with legitimate pedophiles and people like hitler (really?) is unfair. I don't really know why you're raging so hard, not to dismiss the severity of child abuse, but it seems misplaced.
I just got done watching the "Bad" video for the first time in 20 years.....
Wesley Snipes got fucking served.....
Pull glittery glove from Blade's ass.
Posted by: lemmiwinks at June 27, 2009 5:14 PM
Huh. Who knew there were crazy Wacko Jacko fans that read Pajiba. Inneresssing.
Posted by: Be Adequite! at June 27, 2009 7:36 PM
It's not half as as inneresssing as noting your asinine remark, Be Adequite!.
Labels like that were the reason why Michael stopped trusting "adults".
I'll admit that the moniker was his own doin, what with him leakin false stories to the media and all.
Why he did it? If he was like any other adult then sure, condemn him all you want but he simply isn't like any other adult!
How can you people still not see it? All you see is the physical form but what runs it?
It's that cute kid from Jackson 5 people. Michael never grew up.
Heck, he's like Ben Button cept there's none of that weird reverse shit.
Just listen to his voice and demeanour and you'll know what i mean.
I remember watchin this Behind the Scenes for Thriller and he was talkin in his famous soft voice and was constantly gigglin that, just, felt wrong.
My immature self then decided that this dude was a poof but man oh! man i was wrong.
I get it now. It's not girlie, it's....childie.
It totally makes sense people.
You just have to see the real him. Forget bout his nose, forget bout his white skin. The black dude in the pic above has always been there, it is we, who have failed to see that.
You know what?!
Why not all of you haters tell me exactly what is it bout Michael that irks you so much?
What exactly is weird bout him?
People have been misinformed for so long that i feel, it is my duty to at least try to reason with you all.
It's the only way i can honor his memory.
Give me something bad bout Mike and I'll give you a counter argument. We can agree to disagree but please do yourselves a favor and don't insult both of our intelligence by comin up with half-ass arguments like, "He was tried for Molestation and therefore his Guilty!"
That will only set off my profanity valve and even I wont know what will come out from my mouth then.
You wanna be treated with respect, show some first.
Again, for the love of God, treat this thread like it was the funeral service for Mike.
That's all i can say.
Posted by: haplo at June 27, 2009 9:57 PM
Dear Haplo,
So if I may paraphrase.....Leave Britney Aloooonneee!!
Posted by: Stacy D at June 27, 2009 10:22 PM
YES, YOU MAY Stacy D! yes u may.
Even i bought into all that shit surrounding her personal life.
It's her life, who the heck are we?
Her song sucks, you're free to condemn her. She wears no panties, and you ppl freak out? Who, the fuck, cares?!
Even with that horrible VMA performance I still ended up likin "Gimme More"
YEs, i said it! And I cudn't care less what you ppl think.
I was 16 when i saw, "Baby, One More Time" and man she was HOT, HOT, HOT! (Chris Tucker, 5th Element)
I still watch 3 of her videos on my PC. Not thaaaaat often, but i do.
I have one of her songs on my Shuffle. My all time favorite....Born to Make You Happy.
I was just hooked to it from day one. And I dont care if it makes me gay and metro at the same time but that song.... it's just, spankin good y'all!
Posted by: haplo at June 28, 2009 1:06 AM
For those who think he didn't really molest anyone, I recommend checking out this series of articles by Maureen Orth in Vanity Fair, especially the last two...the case against him was actually a lot stronger than I had realized, I didn't know about all the other accusers he paid off besides the two that were most publicized, didn't know that the descriptions one boy gave of marks on his penis turned out to be quite accurate but since the family was paid off this didn't get brought up in court, didn't know they found a copy of Barely Legal with fingerprints of both Jackson and a boy he was accused of molesting...and since ralphie made the argument that he didn't own any child porn (and it's just not true that all child molesters do BTW), the last article does mention this on p. 4:
Zonen seized the opportunity. He strode over to the table where the evidence was kept and pulled out a large photo book called Boys Will Be Boys. Over and over he asked Robson to pick a page and describe what he saw—naked boys of 10, 11, or 12 with their genitalia prominently displayed.
More on that book here, I guess it wasn't shot in a way that would make it qualify as child pornography but the article says "Prosecutor Ron Zonen said earlier that one book was about 90 percent pictures of nude boys".
Posted by: Jesse M. at June 28, 2009 3:08 AM
R.I.P. Michael Jackson
Posted by: lozz at June 28, 2009 9:07 AM
Jesse, I thought the same thoughts.
Let's clarify a few blanket statements about pedophiles without stating point-blank Jackson was one.
Many pedophiles believe wholeheartedly they have loving relationships with those they molest. Pedophilia is often sadistic, but it is frequently seen in adult MRDD populations or socially isolated individuals as a manifestation of aborted adulthood, and the unshakeable belief that children are trustworthy and pure, while the adult world is intimidating and soiled.
It is entirely possible also that a deeply religious person like Jackson, or, say a priest, coach, teacher, etc, could be fully aware that possession of actual pornography would be risky, especially if you have a significant income and staff who might expose it for the right price. I don't believe that the Nambla type pedophiles who say they "worship innocence" would have that kind of porn, anyway. They would have "art books" just like the one Jesse described, if any souvenirs at all. The souvenirs they keep would have to be of a debatable nature to leave room for doubt.
Lastly, I'll venture to get specific about Jackson. How did this grown man get to the point where he was ALLOWED to foster and build up this mythology that what he was doing hanging out with kids, sleeping in the same bed with other peoples' children, buying the bodily services of women like something straight out of an Atwood novel? Would your average plumber down the street, even an insanely successful, moderately wealthy, most gifted with the commode plumber you've ever seen, be able to get away with that kind of "I'm So Special" behavior?
I wonder if an artist gives great things, how far do we go forgiving their foibles. I haven't even touched upon the third rail, the idea that Michael lifted people of color while doing everything in his power to not be one. I am simply not buying the alternate Universe where all these things are explained away with a glove in the air.
I'm not being mean, I'm not judging, I'm not mocking. I'm just not buying. I don't know for he was bad, but I'd know enough to take my kids and run the other way. I don't care how defensive Spike Lee gets on the news. I'm not doing another Nixon funeral.
Posted by: Stacy D at June 28, 2009 10:35 AM
Yes Haplo you are right. Your suggestion of seeing the cinematic greats Powder and Phenomenon, in order to truly understand the mystery of Michael Jackson, makes it all too clear to me how asinine my remarks were.
As well as your remarks that "extraordinary people will always lead a short life". Such as YOUR examples of Princess Diana and Aaliyah. I'll give you the Lady Di, begrudgingly- but tell me, and forgive me for being so cold, but what did Aaliyah do that was so extraordinary, other than die at the height of her career in a horrible plane crash?
I'm guessing in your world of Hello Kitties and Britney Spears, extraordinary (although dead) intellects such as Einstein, Galileo, Darwin, Curie, DaVinci, Shakespeare, along with a whole slew of others, were imbeciles compared to your precious Michael J. since they died well into their twilight years.
Am I sad he died so young and tragically?? Yes, of course. Surprised it happened? No (as Jackson's "friends" are also telling the media as of today- what great friends to have).
But to call him a god is offensive to me. To tell other people a big "FUCK YOU" simply because you don't agree with them on their opinion of Jackson, is also offensive (and weakens/lessens your argument in my eyes, FYI).
People of lesser fame (and none at all) die tragically every day all around the world. And no one cares or notices.
If people took half their crazy energy that they devote to weird celebrities, and put it towards good use and works in the world, what a better place this would be.
And I am just as guilty of that as you or anyone else on this site.
Posted by: Be Adequite! at June 28, 2009 7:23 PM
he was a great dancer but you can keep
his music as far as i am concerned. he is
a great example of talent squandered. he
hasn't been part of this universe for a
long time. it is hard to understand the
gushing over a sicko that you wouldn't
allow your young son to get within 100
yards of .....
Posted by: snake at June 29, 2009 1:14 AM
The first thing I thought of was that ABBA song, too...which led me to wonder if someone will make a musical out of all Michael Jackson songs.
Posted by: taylor at June 29, 2009 2:02 PM
(here comes another wtf?! how can it be so long? post. take it or leave it.)
Thank you Jesse M. for the link. Been wanting to read up on the case. I've read Nightmare in Neverland, well... the first 3 pages neways. 12 freakin page for the first article alone?
They wanted his ass bad, huh?
So...
All i can say is that I'm not one of those naive, die hard fans like you would expect me to be.
I wasn't born yesterday Stacy D and I'm sane enough to accept the possibility that Michael Jackson is guilty.
Ok? You can read that line again if you want to. Just as I can accept that it's possible that Michael is guilty, I demand all of you naysayers to accept the possibility that he is innocent.
That's my only intention here.
And I gotta say that, the article helped me to come to a new...no wait, not new, but, a better understanding I guess, bout what really happened to him.
I'll get to that in my closing speech, but here's the thing Jesse M., all the stuff you mentioned; can just as easily be refuted.
I mean, like when he paid off people. You can argue argue it's because he wanted them to shut up.
Shut up bout what? You say it's bout the molestation. I say, it's to stop them from making the case worse.
Why can't you see that maybe, just maaaaybe, that because Michael is sooooo freakin' rich, people might want to, you know, take his money?
Is that such an unacceptable argument?
And because he paid more families, that means he sucked more kiddie dicks, is it?
Maybe, and i'm just guessin here, the other families thought, why should only Jamie become a millionaire? My kid shared a bed with Michael too, where's my cut?
Is that like a totally outrageous claim? You tellin me that every one of the parents who sent their kids to Neverland are working wit Doctors Without Border?
You get what I'm gettin at?
The penis mark description thing. Riiiiight. The only, most possible, most logical way the kid could have come with that is if Michael flashed him, rite?
Nooooo one could have told the kid bout the mark? I don't know. Maybe someone with access to his medical records? Or maybe his personal physician? A hidden camera maybe?
No?
Fingerprints, huh? And no one fabricate those, rite?
I mean, cmon, how many movies have you watched Jesse M.? None of the characters were framed?
I don't care if his personal manager says, on the record or off the record, that Michael ordered 42 cows to be sacrificed so as to put a curse on Steven fuckin Spielberg.
Who the fuck is this manager? Why shud I or any of you all for that matter believe him? It's his word against Mike!
So, the thought that Michael's enemies might have wanted him to look as weird as possible never crossed your minds?
Nobody could have paid the manager to say shit? Wire me a couple of Gs and i'll say some weird shit now.
Again, i'm not sayin that there's no way in the universe these things are true. They might be true and, it stops right there. That's all I'm sayin.
And no Stacy D, I don't forgive nobody just bcoz they're great.
The moon can be pulled into Earth's gravity and Michael can moonwalk on it til it stop and I still, I still wouldn't forgive him IF, he really was a molester.
Was he? Do you know? Do i know? Who the F knows???
You're a mom and I totally get that. I'm gonna start a family of my own too, someday, i hope?, and as much as I love Michael there's no way in hell I'm gonna let my kid sleep with him in his bed.
NOT because he's Wacko Jacko and all that bullshit.
I mean, Why? Why would you allow your child to sleep with a stranger? Adult or not.
People don't even do that with their uncles so, who the fuck is Mike? Rite?
How did he get to that point?
It's the kid's fuckin mom. Again, this is from the article. So, maybe even this might not be true. I dunno. The mom should be shot by the way for allowing things to get this far, if it indeed happened the way they said it did.
But that doesnt matter. The fact is, a lot of kids have acknowledged bout the slumber party, heck even Macaulay Culkin was in Mike's bed.
Oprah have done the whole special on this. And I remember what she said at the end. No matter what Michael is and isn't, an adult like him sharing a bed with someone else's kid is wrong. Period.
And, I couldn't agree more. This is where Michael royally fucked it up. I'm actually mad at him for this. What? There isn't enough beds in Never-fuckin-land?
Wasnt Wendy sleeping on the grass that one time in that '03 movie?
Why the hell did Michael allow things to go this far? Why, did he allow suspicion to set in? You're pure, we get it. Let the kid sleep in his fuckin bed already!
I'll get to that question in my closing speech.
As for Be Adequite!, you have regained my respect. Congrats.
I half-expected you to come at me like a crazed mutant dog spewing one cuss word after another but... you didnt.
And thank you for acknowledgin the awesomeness that is Powder and Phenomenon. In fact scratch Phenomenon, Powder fits way too perfectly.
I'm gonna repeat this everytime i post from now on. PLZ, PLZ, GO AND WATCH POWDER TO TRULY GAIN AN INSIGHT INTO THIS "MAN'S" LIFE
As for your remarks on Aaliyah?
..................
Spoken like a true non-fan. I don't expect you to understand.
Hello Kitties, huh? I knew I'm gonna get some heat for coming out of the closet for that one.
I'll give you that. I mean, what else do you have on me, rite?
And try not to put words into my mouth the next time, will ya? Einstein, imbecile? really? Did i say that? Who said it? Show yourselves already! You at the back! It was you, rite? Stop shakin your head! U dare diss Einstein?
Err..
You do know that when people say things, they're not meant to be taken literally at times?
That would've been just as offensive to the Hindu in me.
The fuck you was never meant for you. What is wrong wit you? The ginormous one was for BarbadoSlim. The guy was dishin out pre-emptive fuck yous for cryin out loud.
The second fuck you was for that cocknozzle who just drops in to say, one less pedophile in the world to worry bout. He actually got off easy with one fuck you, if u ask me.
I was replyin to previous comments which totally deserved it. I hope that's not too hard of a concept for you.
Is my argument still weak now? Wait, don't answer that now, I just dissed you. Maybe after a walk?
I have been devoting a lot of energy to this "weird" celebrity, huh?
But my energy is far from crazy. It's somewhere between rip out your throat from behind John Rambo and hack a guy repeatedly with a mini-me axe even though the guy was dead from the first blow kinda energy.
It's one thing to hate all molesters but hate everyone who is suspected of molesting? Especially because he's a "black dude who tried everything in his power to not be one" by "bleaching his skin".
And fyi, the world used to be a better place or at least felt like it could have been like one when Michael was blackening and whitening things at the same time.
And nope, you really are alone in the guilty department. I'm sorry to break this so publicly to you.
I, am, sorry.
And snake? it's hard to understand because you don't bother to try. he's the sicko? riiiighht.
Finally! Fuuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkk...
This is what i've been waiting to say from the beginning of this post.
Remember my 'he never did grew up' argument? It's still there. I'm merely appending to it the following.
Again, this is only applicable if Maureen wasn't smoking pot when she? wrote the article.
If Michael did spend that much time wit the kid and if their relationship is described as something close to love then....whoa......this guy sure doesn't make it easy for a fan, huh?
(Hang in there mike, I'm still here)
Michael Jackson really was a fucked up individual, people. And I say that with the utmost respect for him.
This is what i have come to conclude bout Michael Jackson, again, I must warn you, this is only applicable if the allegations were true.
Michael Jackson was not only a kid trapped in an adult's body, he's also gay. There, i said it.
How different would all this be if Michael was a 13 yr old, homosexual boy who had oral sex with another 13 yr old?
And please DO NOT give me the bullshit that 13 yr old is young. People are already finger fucking at this age and everyone just chooses not to believe that.
So, yeah, this is the only way I can explain Michael Jackson.
Notice the absence of pedophilia? Take that!
I know it's a lot to absorb so, take your time.
Light a cig or whatever but what I said makes a gazillion times more sense than your average Joe's pedophile argument.
So....i guess...the million dollar question here is, do i still love Michael?
Would i still love a 13 yr old gay dude who got to Third Base with his 13 yr old lover?
Why, the fuck, not?
I love my gay friends, I dont get em, but I still love em, dont you people?
p/s: I dont know bout you people but I draw the line at Michael eating semen.
....
I'm guessing I should give this up huh?
*Hangs Head and walks out the door*