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Bands That Still Have the Benefit of the Doubt


A Seriously Hopeful List / Christian H.

Music | May 14, 2009 | Comments (75)


Last week, I compiled a list of bands that need to stop making music altogether, for good, kaput. The response was fairly huge; it was the first article I’d ever been a part of to crack 100 comments. And while a few of you predictably attacked the choices, a surprising number of people seemed to agree. Even more offered up further musical sacrifices, bands or artists that they hated on or just wanted to fade out gracefully into nothingness. Some were very sound (The Rolling Stones, who I was too tired to include when I wrote the article). Others made no sense at all (Radiohead).

But some of those mentioned in the comments made me think, “You know? I don’t think that band/artist deserves that. Someone needs to step in and say something.”

So, now I’m here to play devil’s advocate. The following bands or artists may have had tough times, but they have yet to run into the kind of despicable mediocrity that others have. I’ll still give them a chance. And before you tear me apart, hear my justifications; maybe you might think about some of these bands a little differently.


Red-Hot-Chili-Peppers.jpgRed Hot Chili Peppers
This band received a rather shocking amount of flack in the comments of the previous article. I can somewhat understand why; there will always be those who prefer the harder-rockin’ Peppers from back in the day. Others hear singles like “By The Way” and “Dani California” and wonder whether they are running in circles musically, going nowhere. But to those who’ve dug deeper into the last couple RHCP albums, they’ve been making some of their most creative and evocative of their entire catalogue. With the unbelievable guitar work, not to mention the trppy vibe he brings to the group, they have spent the last few albums both revisiting their classic sound, but also advancing in a way that few of their nineties rock peers have.


green_day.jpgGreen Day
I have to admit, as much as I hate to admit it, a part of me really likes American Idiot, Green Day’s rock opera reinvention. Despite unpromising singles, listening to the album game me the clear and pleasant impression of a band who wants to try and advance their sound and their audience into a new millennium, with surprising lyrical intelligence and a pulse on the punk youth in the middle of the Bush years. After years of perfecting but ultimately trudging through a banal pop-punk sound, the grand transformation was welcome and made them relevant again. Now, we still have to hear the new album, and that may determine whether this new formula can sustain them. If their new single (“Know Your Enemy”) says anything, I’m almost ready to give up on them. But not quite.


bruce-springsteen.jpgBruce Springsteen
How the Boss manages to keep making such impressively crafted albums without falling into Bob Dylan’s realm of dull repetition, feet falling into holes made by his own boots, is almost entirely attributed to his contemporary. It seems the more bands that try to emulate the classic Springsteen sound, the easier it is for him to remain fresh as a musician. In a weird way, he has changed both in accordance with and in opposition with those who’ve stolen his sound, an impressive concept. Plus, the man is still a master live, and was probably the best of this new wave of ancient musicians taking over the Super Bowl halftime show.


Panic.At.The.Disco.jpgPanic! At The Disco
Wait. Hear me out. I, as much as (and possibly more than) the average person, hated Panic At The Disco’s first album with a passion, and when they announced a follow-up, I couldn’t have cared any less. But from the first time I listened to “Nine In the Afternoon”, I couldn’t deny it’s catchiness, it’s audacity. Since when does an emo band grow up? Since when do they channel The Beatles? But there it is, and, frankly, I couldn’t be happier for them. Panic At The Disco has become the model example of a band that actually listened to what people had to say and DID something about it. The best part of Panic At The Disco? Irony: They were discovered and signed by Fall Out Boy douchehole Pete Wentz who said that this band’s sound was the music FOB had always wanted to make. Then, after only one album, Panic grew up, and Fall Out Boy is still trying to capture that initial shitty emo sound. Fall Out Boy looking stupid? Can’t beat that.


paul-mccartney.jpgPaul McCartney
Presumably because of my inclusion of Bob Dylan on the last list, Sir Paul’s name graced a few comments. This makes sense. He’s had the same problem, making records that all sound too similar and bland, with few if any gems to be had from the lot. He’s old and seemingly irrelevant to the musical landscape of today. But McCartney has one thing Dylan doesn’t: The Fireman. True, the songs on The Fireman’s Electric Arguments were co-written by McCartney and his producing partner Youth, but that hardly diminishes the quality of the work. Probably the best album McCartney’s made since Band on the Run, Electric Arguments features fantastic range. First, Paul proved he still has some punch with “Nothing Too Much, Just Out Of Sight”, then he got folky and let his falsetto dance on “Two Magpies”, and the album moved from there. Rich in arrangements and musical ability, not to mention a major departure from previous work, Paul McCartney retained my respect, and managed to avoid my previous list, with The Fireman. Now we can only hope his next solo album fares as well.


Will these artists survive on this list forever? Maybe, maybe not. We can only hope that they don’t get shittier and lose our respect for good. But for now, there’s still reason to respect and listen to their music without despair. If only we could say the same for others…

Christian Hagen is a music journalist from Minneapolis (who is also in a band), who likes to waste his time writing about nothing, and who has yet to launch his own website (though one is on its way), so for now he can only link to his MySpace profile.


50 Cent Jekyll and Hyde Movie | Pajiba Love 05/14/09



Comments

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Posted by: gate green at May 14, 2009 12:17 PM

Ha-ha, no. Prince put on the best Super Bowl halftime show. Springsteen and his grizzled crotch can fuck right off.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at May 14, 2009 12:20 PM

I love the Chili Peppers. I love Anthony Kiedis's stadium filling vocals that have only gotten better over the years, I love Fresciente's guitar work that's a little hippie and a little funk, I love Flea's full frontal assault on the bass, and I love Chad Smith because he puts up with the rest of it. Suck it, haters.

The only new single I've heard from Panic! is "That Green Gentleman" but even that sounds like a departure from "The Only Difference Between Suicide and Martyrdom is Look At Me I'm So Smart" or whatever it was called. Maybe I'll go check out some other stuff from their new album.

Posted by: Genny (also Rusty) at May 14, 2009 12:20 PM

Dude! The spambot beat us all out of the gate! I, for one, welcome our new tall single overlords.

Posted by: Genny (also Rusty) at May 14, 2009 12:22 PM

1. I don't listen to any of the above mentioned bands, but can Paul Oakenfold please stop "making" music? The guy is a hack.

2. These spam comments are getting very annoying. However, it's funny to see what kind of ads Pajiba comments attract.

3. Sorry to be the asshole, but where is the Lost recap? I don't have much patience.

Posted by: Agent Scully at May 14, 2009 12:22 PM

I'll give ya this: You know how to ask for it.

Posted by: Jay at May 14, 2009 12:24 PM

Agreed on the "Know Your Enemy" thing. That, without a doubt, is one of the most goddam repetitive songs I've heard in a long time. If that's the best they have... Yuck.

Posted by: Skitz at May 14, 2009 12:25 PM

Sorry to be the asshole, but where is the Lost recap?

Mondays


Mondays


Mondays

Posted by: Jay at May 14, 2009 12:26 PM

Sorry to be the asshole, but where is the Lost recap? I don't have much patience.

Doesn't it go up on Mondays? We haven't had it here yet!! And with that I again take myself away from the internet before I am spoiled. I said good day.

Posted by: Carrie (aka Teabelly) at May 14, 2009 12:28 PM

Wait. Hear me out.

Ok.

I, as much as (and possibly more than) the average person, hated Panic At The Disco’s first album with a passion...

And I'm done. I could listen to the first album without cringing. I couldn't even get through 30 second samples at the store on the second one.

The only great thing about Panic! at the Disco is the fact that they made bottling mainstream industry news. That is their legacy.

Posted by: Robert at May 14, 2009 12:36 PM

Oh i cannot abide the hold out for green day. If i hear "I walk alone.." for mere seconds, i flip out and turn off the source of the sound asap.

Posted by: Teresa at May 14, 2009 12:39 PM

Nope. Still disagree with Red Hot Chili Peppers. Every song they come out with now seems to have the word "Californication" in it. It's seriously the only word they know now. And it's not even a real word! I live in California. I don't need to hear about it in every freakin' song!

Though I do agree with Green Day being up there. They went from band I've enjoyed but mostly ignored, to band I'd throw down for after they came out with American Idiot. I actually like their new single. It has been declared by those who know me best, however, that I have absolutely poor taste in pretty much everything. So I'll leave that as it stands.

Posted by: CinnabarriGirl at May 14, 2009 12:44 PM

No. Paul McCartney needs to stop making 'music.' I'm sorry, but my passionate hatred for him will never die. STOP RIGHT NOW PAUL!

Posted by: rayliota at May 14, 2009 12:46 PM

I agree with you about Paul and Bruce.

The only one i strongly disagree with is Red Hot Chili Peppers... Maybe if they were to develop range, I'd feel differently.

As for the others, I'll acknowledge their musical ability, but I'm indifferent.

However, as always, great article. You make good arguments, sir.

Posted by: Matt Bahn at May 14, 2009 12:46 PM

I never knew the spambots could find us before anyone commented. We need to shore up our defenses.

Oh, and I'm standing up for Depeche Mode, even if I'm all by myself. Get well Dave!

We really could have used a live Lost thread last night, I'll say that.

Posted by: Cindy at May 14, 2009 12:49 PM

i dont think panic! at the disco should even be considered an important or interesting enough band to warrant placement on any list about anything, other than "bands that are pretty mediocre".

Posted by: bree at May 14, 2009 12:51 PM

"Put horns in a song" is not the same as "channeling the Beatles.

Posted by: Tim at May 14, 2009 12:53 PM

You lost me with "Panic! at the Disco channels The Beatles."

Nope. And for the record, Nine in the Afternoon is quite possibly the most irritating single I've heard in a decade. It's a Class III Weapon-of-Mass-Destruction Earworm with nonsensical lyrics, meant to destroy my will to live.

Glad to see Green Day get some respect, though.

Posted by: Tammy at May 14, 2009 12:55 PM

I agree with you on Paul McCartney. While he was the boring one in the Beatles (I mean musically), he got better with age.

The rest? RHCP deserve to die a quick, painless death. Their last albums were boring as hell.

Green Day derserve to die a slow, agonizing death. They were never good to begin with, and have been tormenting my eardrums for 15 years now. Shamefully ripping off A Ring of Fire was just the last nail in their coffin.

Springsteen and Panic! I don't know much about. And I don't care. So meh.

Posted by: FabMax at May 14, 2009 12:56 PM

Ah, shit. I hate to be this guy, but I gotta be him...

Maybe, and this truly isn't a shot at Christian or his age, but maybe one had to grow up with the Chili Peppers in their early/classic years to truly appreciate how far they've fallen.

If you came up with Uplift Mofo Party Plan and Freaky Styley and Mother's Milk, maybe even Bloodsugarsexmagik, than to be subjected to the blandness of their current releases is downright painful. I remember seeing them a half-dozen times from 90-94, and they were absolutely transcendent. Now, they're just... another band. High energy, yes, but...

Call it the Metallica Rule - similar to the "Everything before/after ...And Justice For All" theory. I think that Bloodsugar is their Justice - a very good album that was also the beginning of the end.

Posted by: TK at May 14, 2009 12:59 PM

I wouldn't say "Nine in the Afternoon" channels the Beatles so much as it blatantly copies their sound. I have to respectfully disagree and say Panic's second album is crap.

Posted by: Melissa at May 14, 2009 1:01 PM

I for one am definitely not ready to lose either Green Day nor RHCP.

RHCP; loved their old stuff, think their new stuff is quite trippy and really melodical.

Green day; same thing, loved their old stuff. Was not ready to accept American Idiot especially going on singles, but when you really hear the whole thing out as an album it really works.
I'm dubious about their new album though; they have to move on from AI but where to successfully?

sigh. haven't heard much Panic! as assumed it was FOB material rehashed, but was enthused by your review and went through their album on iTunes. Fail. Every song, excluding the one you mentioned, sounds the SAME. :(

Posted by: Honeypie at May 14, 2009 1:16 PM

I can't believe U2 and Dylan made the artists who need to stop, and Green Day, Paul McCartney, and the Red Hot Freakin Chili Peppers made the list of artists deserving another chance. I'm not suggesting that U2's and Dylan's most recent releases are great, but they're better than ANYTHING Green Day has ever put out.

Paul McCartney? PAUL MCCARTNEY???? Have you listened to ANYTHING the man has done since the Beatles broke up? Ebony and Ivory? My God. . .

I really liked Red Hot Chili Peppers, but TK has them pegged. Every song after Bloodsugarsexmagic is a cheap imitation of a song from that album.

I know I'm a little late, but I can throw Lenny Kravitz on the list of artists who need to stop? I realize he was never really any good to start with, but he was mildly tolerable at first. For the past 15 years, however, he's given us the some of the most repetitive, boring, nut-smashingly painful songs during that span.

Posted by: Hoof Hearted at May 14, 2009 1:18 PM

Hey, you know what was really cool? That album that came out more than a decade ago. Back in the day, man, we had REAL music then.

And get the hell off my lawn. No, you can't have your ball back.

/sarcasm. Sort of.

Posted by: Genny (also Rusty) at May 14, 2009 1:21 PM

TK: You have a point about RHCP, but I still hold that Stadium Arcadium is their best since BloodSugarSexMagik. It took a few tries but the intricate nature of most of the songs, especially on Disc 1, realy shines through on repeated listens. Songs like "Charlie" and "Wet Sand" I would easily put against their earlier stuff and John Frusciante's guitar work is excellent throughout.

I love Green Day, but "Know Your Enemy" sounds like a B-side from Nimrod. Not a good sign.

Posted by: TylerDFC at May 14, 2009 1:23 PM

I'll defend Panic at the Disco. Their first album is mostly obnoxious, but their second album is a pleasant listen with some catchy tunes. I'm excited to see where they go next since I don't think they've ever made an album that was thier own sound.

Also, Bruce Springsteen? I can't listen to more than about 30 seconds of his songs. They're just so boring.

Posted by: kelsy at May 14, 2009 1:27 PM

Hey, I'll give anyone another chance if they come out with something awesome, but short of that, I'll continue to say hang up your hat. Although I never had RHCP on my short list, even though I do agree with the repetitiveness of their songs, especially with the California theme.

Posted by: Whorish Mouth at May 14, 2009 1:33 PM

PANIC! At the Disco...

There is doubt to give them benefit off. They suck. Since when does an Emo band grow up?!? Brand New did it pretty well in God and The Devil. The Dismemberment Plan also matured their sound through every album. What about Weezer's first 3, heck, 4 albums?!

PANIC! first came out riding the coat-tails, and unrelentlessly biting off of The Killers (which is like watering down your seltzer because the flavor is too bold) and taking their already atrocious, boring, and derivative sound and making it worse! How do they follow that up? With an album that has done what every main-stream headed indie band has done (i.e. The Decemberists, Spoon, Dr.Dog etc.) and that's bite of The Beatles. Not inspired by or influence by; not fashionably nostalgic; not flavored by or garnished with... Blatant, and boring rip off of the Beatles...

Panic! At the Disco are the worst offenders in music right now.

Couldn't you have found some space on this list for the likes of say Modest Mouse (Dead Before the Ship Sink was Issac Brock making songs not music for the first time.), M. Ward (especially needs doubt benefits after the crappy She and Him indie darling experiment), or even Ryan Adams (worst concert I've ever seen)? Hell even The Strokes (who's last album actually rocked kind of, when your stoned) makes more sense...

Posted by: Brian at May 14, 2009 1:35 PM

*There is *NO* doubt to give them benefit off...

The absences of the "No" hurts my rant.

Posted by: Brian at May 14, 2009 1:39 PM

Alright TK, The Chili Peppers and Metallica have both had their dark periods (Dave Navarro and Bob "The Antichrist" Rock respectively), but they've done the unthinkable after that, they moved on.

Californication and Death Magnetic, while neither of the artists bests, were still solid albums. Far better than the shit that normally makes it to the top 40's. I'm happy that they've moved on, and while they'll never be what they once were, they can still prove themselves as great rockers nowadays.

Posted by: George at May 14, 2009 1:40 PM

Green Day hasn't been worth a damn since Dookie. American Idiot shows their age and their need to make money. Springsteen has been overrated since day 1. Even though I don't care for the Beatles McCartney has enough credibility and goodwill built up that he can do whatever he wants.

Posted by: Dave at May 14, 2009 1:44 PM

I'm sorry, George, but I simply disagree. Californication and Death Magnetic might be considered good albums if the classics didn't exist, but they do. So instead, they're still just watered down versions of the past glory. No, I don't think that they're bad albums... but they aren't that good, either.

I can tell you this - I listened to Death Magnetic several times, and thought it decent. That said,, I can guarantee you that I will never listen to it ever again. Why would I, when I know there's Metallica that is SO much better in my collection?

This same rule applies to RHCP. Maybe I'm just too damn picky.

Posted by: TK at May 14, 2009 1:47 PM

"Panic! At the Disco are the worst offenders in music right now."

Really, Brian? I agree that they suck balls, but they're not the worst. Not while Heidi Montag's making "music."

Posted by: puddin' cup at May 14, 2009 1:48 PM

But nobody (gross generalization. perhaps, no informed individual) will approach Heidi Montag's music with an apolegetic attitude.

"I'm sorry, but Panic! At the Discos last album was a real mature sophmore effort."

bah.

Posted by: Brian at May 14, 2009 1:54 PM

I wonder sometimes if people cling to the glory of certain albums more because of the time in their life when they listened to them than the albums themselves. I've heard BloodSugarSexMagik. It's definitely got a lot of hits, but it's got it's share of misses too. And I honestly think that if they were still making songs that sounded exactly like the ones on that album they wouldn't still be viable. Music has moved on from that sound, and honestly it's kind of impressive that they managed to survive the grunge onslaught that immediately followed the release of BSSM.

Stadium Arcadium does have a very different tone, but I think that while the introspective nature of songs like "Hard to Concentrate" wouldn't have worked on BSSM, while a couple songs like "She's Only 18" or "Hump de Bump" may have fit in fine. There's still a sound there that's common to both albums (and most of the ones in between) but it's clear that a group of young men made BSSM and a group of more mature men made Stadium.

Posted by: Genny (also Rusty) at May 14, 2009 1:55 PM

The one thing I can't stand about Panic at the Disco: their lead singer. If Brandon Uri were replaced with someone who didn't sound like a fucking 12 year old girl getting molested by a congested duck (and who didn't look like an ADD Spaztard in his shiny music video) then maybe I could give the band a shot. (And seriously, just because your song titles are so long they have to be abbreviated doesn't mean they're edgy or meaningful. It just means you suck at the old "short and sweet" routine.)

Posted by: Doctor Controversy at May 14, 2009 2:00 PM

100% agreed, TK, I can't bear to listen to Californication, knowing what came before it. If that didn't exist, perhaps it would be a good album, but then RHCP would not be the same band, and I probably wouldn't have bothered to listen in the first place. If that makes sense. And I'm still quite fond of BloodSugarSexMagik but I agree that it was their last gasp.

Posted by: MG at May 14, 2009 2:01 PM

"I wonder sometimes if people cling to the glory of certain albums more because of the time in their life when they listened to them than the albums themselves"

I won't deny that that is somewhat true, Genny, and certainly a part of it. But at the same time, I still maintain that the recent efforts, from a personally objective perspective, are simply not as good. Or perhaps it's better said as... the band I hear today is not the same band that I once loved.

Posted by: TK at May 14, 2009 2:04 PM

I'll say it again.

Bob Dylan's Love and Theft stands up to anything-- that right, anything--in his entire catalog. It's far better than any of his post-'97 "comeback" albums. The opening track, "Mississippi," is as good a song as he's ever recorded.

Posted by: icecreammang at May 14, 2009 2:06 PM

Maybe I'm living in the past TK, I just haven't found many modern bands I really like (well, aside from Tool and Dragonforce), so I get my musical kicks from the past. I'm listening to "Pretty Little Ditty" as I type this, Blood Sugar Sex Magick is awesome, and sounds like fucking, I own 5 Metallica albums, but I still know that the past is gone forever.

I'll just make due with what I have, and hopefully find a new band to love rather than just lament over classics.

But we can both agree on this, the world is a better place now that Dave Navarro is safely directing adult videos and Bob Rock has been thrown back into the dark pit of oblivion where he belongs. I don't know which of them I hate more. May they rest in hell, deepthroating Satan for the rest of eternity.

Posted by: George at May 14, 2009 2:08 PM

The real question is how long are you willing to give these shills the benefit of the doubt?

None of us are getting any younger and there is an ocean of options out there.

Write 'em off, move on.

Posted by: Recondite at May 14, 2009 2:09 PM

That's a good point, Brian. You win that one. I have a better example, though: Creed. They've reunited, so I think they will be taking the "Worst Band" title from Panic! pretty soon.

Posted by: puddin' cup at May 14, 2009 2:09 PM

As far as the Chili Peppers go, Anthony Keidis can't sing.

End of story.

I will brook not debate about this, because there isn't one.

He simply can't sing.

He has a smaller vocal range then Diana Ross and that's saying something.

Oh, Tracer Bullet, you're a fucking moron. Springsteen showed that he fucking owns the Super Bowl halftime show. Prince's effort ranks below that Aerosmith/N*SYNC/britney Spears mashup from some years back.

Posted by: FartyMcFartsALot at May 14, 2009 2:14 PM

The Chili Peppers are cool...if you're 13.

Same goes for Green Day. "We're almost 40 years old and wearing eye liner. Please take us seriously." Actually, I thought American Idiot was pretty good. I just don't get the whole all-black-eye-liner thing they have going on. It's like they're trying too hard to still seem cool to the middle school crowd.

Posted by: henchman for hire at May 14, 2009 2:57 PM

"HeeooorrrnEnnnaheeeUuuuSSSSaaAyyyhhhhh"

More like Seriously Delusional... Bruce is TERRIBLE

If you can manage to sit through the Ghost of Tom Joad album without putting a bullet in your ear, something is wrong with you.
Same goes for the Magic album... "This is radio nowhere. Is there anybody alive out there?" No, Bruce, because you killed us all out of sheer boredom from trying to listen to your geriatric attempts to 'rock'. You are old. Stop. Please.

David Gilmore called to confirm your shuffle board date with Robert Plant and Paul McCartney. He said that you need to remember to take your Flomax this time...

Bruce in concert??? If I wanted to see historical items come to life, as horrendous as its going to be, I'd rather go see Night at the Museum 2...

Posted by: MarcusArilius at May 14, 2009 3:12 PM

I'll say it again.

Bob Dylan's Love and Theft stands up to anything-- that right, anything--in his entire catalog. It's far better than any of his post-'97 "comeback" albums. The opening track, "Mississippi," is as good a song as he's ever recorded.

It's a very good album.

It's not as good as Time Out of Mind.

Posted by: Soylent Green is Sheeple at May 14, 2009 3:16 PM

...I take back the bit about David Gilmore, Robert Plant and Macca... They were actually amazing at certain points in their careers, where as Bruce has sucked all the way through...

Posted by: MarcusArilius at May 14, 2009 3:17 PM

This list hurt my brain. I don't even know where to start. RHCP & Greenday? Really? I loved them when I was a teen too. That doesnt mean they should still be making albums. People like me will listen, not because it's awesome anymore, but because it's like comofort food.

The Boss and Sir Paul. GAG. They havent made any good music since shortly after I was born (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 songs each)!

Panic! at the Disco. I just don't know what to say.


How about something with a little more imagination? Not that I can think of anything much better. This just seemed a little of an easy list of old favourites that you are excited are putting out a new album. I thought that you would put some artist out there that were a little less safe. Other than Panic! most of these artist have enough of a loyal following that they'd get radio play by default.

Posted by: elusive at May 14, 2009 3:22 PM

The two bands that i immediately thought of when I think of bands that still, but only tenuously, get the benefit of the doubt were Slayer and Belle and Sebastian.

Posted by: imk at May 14, 2009 3:27 PM

Gee, what was wrong with "The Life Pursuit" (besides being cheap and only stopping in Nashville for the whole southeast)?

Posted by: Jay at May 14, 2009 3:34 PM

Green Day?! The Chili Peppers?! Two of the biggest hack acts in the industry. Let's definitely encourage them to make more mediocre music with pseudo-political messages or nonsensical words.

Posted by: mae at May 14, 2009 3:41 PM

I...kinda like PATD's first album? I know, I'm sorry about it, too. It's not my type of music at all but despite its obnoxious teenageriness and pretensions of grandeur, something about it is so catchy and it's fun to sing along to in the car. I've deleted it and brought it back like fifty times. I just can't quit it :-(.

Posted by: Geetch at May 14, 2009 4:12 PM

"I...kinda like PATD's first album?"

Ugh. I wish... I wish I didn't feel the sam way. But goddamnit, you're right, Geetch. I kind of dug that album more than I'm comfortable with. In fact, I think the second album pretty much blows (sounds like a high school band trying to get taken seriously), but the first one? Way too catchy for its own good.

I'm not proud of it.

Posted by: TK at May 14, 2009 4:18 PM

I really shouldn't say anything here, as I believe that some people like this stuff, but for me, every artist listed here doesn't really interest me. I liked Springsteen up until his Superbowl show, but then I haven't bought anything since Ghost of Tom Joad, which has some very nice, mellow and powerful tracks on it ("Straight Time", "Youngstown" come to mind as I type). But that onstage banter between Bruce and Silvio Dante at the halftime show made me think, "This man has lost his fucking mind." A week later it was confirmed when he gave exclusive rights to his new release to Walmart.

Other opinions: I was never a big fan of the RHCP. I did like Bloodsugarsexmagick, but overall I don't find them compelling.

And TK, I think Metallic (yeah, I left off the a) peaked at Puppets. Justice is just too damned "cold" sounding in its production.

Each one of us could have written an article like this. I have my favorite artists that I will give the benefit of the doubt, but there are maybe 3 of them (Drive-By Truckers, James McMurtry and Wilco). Everyone else is judged on an album-by-album basis.

Posted by: Jez at May 14, 2009 4:26 PM

The Chili Peppers are cool...if you're 13.
Same goes for Green Day.

If you can manage to sit through the Ghost of Tom Joad album without putting a bullet in your ear, something is wrong with you.

RHCP & Greenday? Really? I loved them when I was a teen too.

Man, this is all reminding me of the things I hated about being a music major. People just get MEAN about music and it's like, OK, Bruce Springsteen's definitely not my cup of tea but I'm not gonna tell someone that they have terrible taste in music or are just flat out WRONG for liking him. It takes all kinds. And before someone directs me to read the banner, I am aware that it says "scathing reviews for bitchy people" but I'd rather have a conversation instead of a series of attacks and counter-attacks.

Now I'm waiting for someone to tell me I'm not a real bass player because I don't play jazz. Flashbacks, I tell you.

Posted by: Genny (also Rusty) at May 14, 2009 4:30 PM

Just a clarification about Electric Arguments. Youth gets a co-producing credit, but the writing is credited to McCartney alone.

Posted by: john at May 14, 2009 5:37 PM

I swore I wouldn't comment on my own pieces anymore, but I feel like I really have to clarify:

This article isn't a list of my favorite bands, nor is it just a random list of bands I like. These are artists that take a lot of heat from critics and fans (particularly on this site), and most of whom showed up in the comments for my article from last week. I'm just playing devil's advocate for bands that get lots of criticism. That's all.

Posted by: ChristianH at May 14, 2009 5:47 PM

Stagefront at Springsteens concert in Austin this year was pretty much the highlight of my life.

Posted by: Coryo at May 14, 2009 5:49 PM

There's no points for playing the voice of reason Genny, but thanks for trying :-)

FWIW, as this is the flipside of the last list my same comments stand- it is asking a lot to expect our old heroes to redefine themselves with every release, but their triumphs earn them the right to do whatever the fuck they want. If you didn't like them to begin with, go to your corner and let those of us who do like them to sit in ours.

As someone else said, if you don't like it then there's a plethora of options out there. My favoured way of seeking new music is to visit site like Pajiba, Popmatters, etc every couple of weeks, peruse the reviews, listen to the links and if its interesting, I download it. Easy. I recently discovered PSAPP, Venice is Sinking, and Bat For Lashes that way and there was not a single mediocre U2 song to suffer through in the process. No radio or tv required, and no need to pretend that their existence is shading sunlight away from budding new acts. It's far less stressful than waiting for the tastemasters of mainstream media to find it for me.

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at May 14, 2009 5:57 PM

*There are no points... yeesh, my proofreading sucks

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at May 14, 2009 5:59 PM

I must be some kind of asshole to like the bands the author mentioned on his previous list. Even their newer stuff. These days I couldn't give a fuck less what other people listen to as long as I'm not subjected to it for long periods of time. To me the factors involved in being interested in a band or a piece of music is so complicated to parse it down to bad/good is disingenuous. There's music I like because I've grown up with it. There's music I like because I played drums in school. There's music I like because I'm a whore for strings in rock songs. I could go on. And fuck anyone who thinks a musician/band should just stop because "they're past their prime." If U2 stopped after Joshua Tree I might not have been introduced to them at 10 years old via their POP album. So fuck you.

Posted by: Hurp Durp at May 14, 2009 7:27 PM

Pajiba, please stick to what you know and do well: movies and television.

These music articles are like if you decided to critique food and wrote entirely about McDonald's.

Posted by: Homeless J at May 14, 2009 9:12 PM

American Idiot (the album) was a boring and uncreative imitation of the rock operas of the Who, and "American Idiot" (the song) is a rewrite of The Avengers "The American in Me." The music critic community should be embarassed at the amount of praise they gave such an unremarkable album just because it bashed George W.

Posted by: NF at May 14, 2009 11:49 PM

Give me a break. Not every Rock Opera automatically 'imitates' the Who. Everybody always says that about every Rock Opera simply because Tommy is the only one whose name got absorbed into pop-culture and therefore remembered. American Idiot has little to nothing in common with those works if you actually listen to the songs, their style and their structure. But who wants to do that when you're too busy bashing for bashing's sake?

And it didn't 'just bash' George W. It painted an image of american culture of today of which politics were just a small part. But to discern that would once again actual listening so I won't even expect it.

Green Day single-handedly brought rock music back from the watery grave that the sad mess we call 'post-Grunge' dragged it into. And believe me, no one was more surprised than I that it was the 'Dookie' band that proved capable of it.

The new album is great work too, (if a continuation on the same themes) although I fully admit I have NO clue why they chose 'Enemy' as first single: it's easily the worst track on the entire album. Seriously guys, what were you thinking??

Posted by: Arco at May 15, 2009 3:21 AM

Where is Morrissey?

Then again...Morrissey never had doubt to begin with. So, scratch that. That man is a fuckin' legend.

Anyways, Panic! is quite possibly the most annoying band. Really? How did they make this list? They suck donkey testicles. And no shaft.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Riley at May 15, 2009 3:24 AM

Question. Why are you devoting time/commentary to this list of mediocre and irrelevant bands/singers? (yes I know, before the shit fit starts, Macca WAS relevant. Right up until Wings)

Jeez...just go and watch a 'Behind The Music' or something, Grandad. Bands were good, then get shit. It's called money and vanity and media.

Let me know when the good writing starts about good bands. Hope indeed.

Posted by: queenorangina at May 15, 2009 3:50 AM

Green Day single-handedly brought rock music back from the watery grave that the sad mess we call 'post-Grunge' dragged it into. And believe me, no one was more surprised than I that it was the 'Dookie' band that proved capable of it.

Posted by: Arco at May 15, 2009 3:21 AM

Nope. Rock was made relevant again by several european bands.

Posted by: FabMax at May 15, 2009 6:54 AM

Green Day single-handedly brought rock music back from the watery grave that the sad mess we call 'post-Grunge' dragged it into. And believe me, no one was more surprised than I that it was the 'Dookie' band that proved capable of it.

Green Day never resurrected rock. Especially since they never claimed to even ever be "rock", they were always pop-punk. Rock, which honestly doesn't exist in the same form it once did, is sustained currently by random foreign and indie bands that pop in and out of favor (Kings of Leon, the Bloc Party, the Thermals, LCD Soundsystem, Deerhoof). They come and just as fast disappear into nothing.

And C'mon...2004...The Arcade Fire came out in 2004...TV on the Radio had a strong effort too.

Posted by: Ren at May 15, 2009 9:32 AM

queenorangina gave us this priceless bit of moronic tard idiocy: "Why are you devoting time/commentary to this list of mediocre and irrelevant bands/singers. (yes I know before the shit fit starts, Macca WAS relevant. Right up until Wings.)

Tell me you ignorant shitsnorter, who was it that was the headliner at the Hippest of Hippster Shitguzzling Douchebags Music Festival known as Coachella this year?

Oh gee, it was Paul McCartney.

Mega-Tsunami Fail for you, you babbling fucktard. You obviously know absolutely nothing about popular music, let alone popular culture so take this advice, NEVER VISIT ANY MESSAGE BOARD ON THE INTERNET EVER AGAIN BECAUSE IF YOU DO I WILL PWN YOU LIKE NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN PWNED IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF PWNING. IT WILL MAKE THIS PWNING OF YOU LOOK LIKE NOTHING.

Posted by: FartyMcFartsALot at May 15, 2009 1:12 PM

Panic at the Disco is, without a doubt, pop music. If people could accept that and get past the fact that they look like douchebags, I think most people would be pleasantly surprised. They are in no way one of my favorite bands or anything but I liked the first CD, it's really well produced and very theatrical (which I enjoy). But to each his own...

Posted by: letsspoon at May 15, 2009 1:27 PM

And then there's Dave, who gives us this stinging bit of moronic social/economic commentary: green Day hasn't been worth a damn since Dookie. American Idiot shows their age and THEIR NEED TO MAKE MONEY.

O NOES!!!!!!!!!! A band actually wants to make money and be successful???!! How dare they!!!!!!!!!!! What right do they have to make money and make a decent living for themselves???!!! They should be content to live out of their fucking van, which they should tour with and they should be glad to eat the dregs of garbage cans!!!!!!!!

You sir, are gutter scum filth who would have fit in perfectly with Hitler, Himmler and the rest of the Nazi scum.

Posted by: FartyMcFartsALot at May 15, 2009 1:39 PM

The thing about Panic's first album is, they recorded it a week out of high school. Both their albums are seriously impressive for a band so young, and I'm excited to see what they do next.

The Chili Peppers haven't been good since Mother's Milk, sorry to say.

Posted by: twigged at May 15, 2009 6:05 PM

"I know I'm a little late, but I can throw Lenny Kravitz on the list of artists who need to stop? I realize he was never really any good to start with, but he was mildly tolerable at first. For the past 15 years, however, he's given us the some of the most repetitive, boring, nut-smashingly painful songs during that span."

A to the men. I will sing the praises of "Mama Said" until my dying day, but God has that dude gotten rote.

As a nod to the ladies, I'm going to go with Liz Phair. Liz, come back to us 90s feminists. Please. We deserve you and appreciate you for who you are, naysayers be damned. I'll even forgive your ridiculous do-me feminist type songs.

Posted by: samantha t at May 15, 2009 6:43 PM

Hi FartyMcFartsALot,

Well here my babbling,shitsnorting, moronic idiotic fucktard self is. I think I feel ok venturing back on here, mainly because because it's pretty difficult to feel bad when someone says they are going 'pwn' you (words that only exist on the internet seem pretty lame to me...just sayin' - I guess I only thought that 15 yr boys whose main excitement in life is a LAN party used that kind of terminology. Clearly I stand corrected).


I'm sure Coachella is really cool (in fact there were lots of bands I would've love to have seen if I could afford to hop the Atlantic). However, I'm also pretty sure that the only reason McCartney is invited to play anywhere is so that people can hear a former Beatle play their back catalogue (which I'm sure he played a lot of at the festival). In fact, I think that applies to a lot of these bands - people tolerate the new stuff because they'll play their old classics too.

ps. ease up on the Caps Lock sweetie, shouting on the Internet is rude.

Posted by: queenorangina at May 16, 2009 4:50 AM

Then, after only one album, Panic grew up, and all Out Boy is still trying to capture that initial shitty emo sound. Fall Out Boy looking stupid? Can’t beat that.

Have you listened actually listened to any of their albums? There is a clear progression. For Take This to Your Grave they were obviously drawing from punk and a little emo. Infinity on High is obviously a transitional album--it's them experimenting with the type of music they want to make and branching out from what they've done in the past. Their latest album is nothing like the first two, but you can see hints of it in FUCT and IOH. In Folie a Deux, they were inspired by '80s pop and jazz, to name a few of the more obvious influences. The entire album is a commentary on pop culture and our relationship to celebrity and the media. I'm not even going to go into Patrick Stump's vocal range and how it's grown over the years. Just... how the frak is that them "trying to capture that initial shitty emo sound"? Seriously, go listen to Take This to Your Grave and then listen to Folie a Deux and focus on the music for a second instead of how much you hate Pete Wentz. I know it's cool to hate Fall Out Boy because they're mainstream and Wentz can be kind of (hilariously) douchey sometimes, but they're still a good band.

Posted by: ligerpelt at May 18, 2009 1:19 PM