Pajiba

So for the first time, I pretty much agree with what NMN has to say. And I for one am glad.

However, I still think affirmitive action is a racist program designed to help some by hindering others. Racism, even when used for honest means, is still going to inspire more racism in return, which ultimately defeats the purpose entirely.

All in all well said though.

What is this? TWO in a row that I've agreed with NMN? I don't believe it. Well done, NMN!

I would like respond to this:

I still think affirmitive action is a racist program designed to help some by hindering others. Racism, even when used for honest means, is still going to inspire more racism in return, which ultimately defeats the purpose entirely.

I understand the perspective here, I do. However, I thought that affirmative action was put in place NOT to hinder the majority, aka whites, but to allow opportunities for minorities that otherwise would not have them. In the context of employment, for example, my understanding was that AA would allow a minority candidate the same opportunities for a position, as an EQUALLY or MORE qualified candidate, as their white counterparts. It's not supposed to mean, "hey, give that black guy the job because we have to hit our AA numbers despite the fact that he's not the most qualified!" At the same time, I recognize that in some cases, it's been twisted into the very thing I just referenced. Objectively, as a black person, I know that not's right. OTOH, I see the often times unrecognized privilege of whites on a daily basis, and sometimes think, "Meh. How many more jobs have been filled by less than qualified whites because the other, stronger candidate was a minority?" I realize I risk a major flame by admitting that, but I think the point I'm trying to make is:
There will probably always be the aforementioned privilege, regardless of the amount of legislation passed to give minorities a perceived fair shake. It's the world we live in, and I have to live with that, even when it's not always fair. Keeping that in mind, isn't it fair to say that vice versa can happen as well - such things as a minority getting a job or getting into a school when there may indeed be a more qualified white candidate? And that it may not be fair or always right, and it may not always be racism (I happen to think the unspoken white privilege doesn't automatically equal racism) but the world we live in?

I don't know if I'm making any sense. And I'm not intentionally trying to boil anyone's blood. Just trying to bring another perspective.

In my limited, seventeen-year-old experience I've had the opportunity to read many school-assigned books and plays that attempt to communicate to a mass (and let's face it, in honors high school English class, mostly white) audience the feeling and experience of being African American. A Raisin in the Sun, Fences, A Lesson Before Dying...the list goes on. And my white guilt--which I hesitate to acknowledge, but I think I'll honor NMB's suggestion of making that first, admissive step--really has driven me to try to understand the message as well as I possibly can. Of all of this literature, Richard Wright's Native Son has made the deepest and most recent impression on my perception of that experience.

Despite all of what I've hitherto managed to understand about the issue, I don't think I've ever understood the issue so profoundly as I do after reading this piece. I hope I am just when I say that I do understand what you're saying, to the fullest extent of my ability--even if that extent is merely realizing that I'll never really understand.

I think the most subtle and prevalent form of racism that exists among myself and my peers (I live in yuppie Montgomery County in the DC area) is the bullshit that's been brainwashing my generation since we were born: "We're all the same." "They're just like us." It's almost imperceptable as racism; I was almost tempted just now to call it simply condescension instead. But it is racism--perhaps not as virulent as that dispelled by a certain former hipster doofus, but still distinctly damaging--because it's the misjudgement of an entire group of people and a failure to see the individual.

So, if I can sum up this sermon, I guess I can deal with this horrifying public fiasco of a person for whom I used to possess a shred of respect (I can't help being a Seinfeld fan), since it's led to your words that have given me some of the deepest insight into humanity I've ever had. Thank you.

Here we go again!

Just kidding. Who would have thought that inoffensive ol' Cosmo Kramer would harbor wet dreams about white sheets?

I'm about as un-PC as you can get. I've laughed at Sarah Silverman jokes until I had become red in the face. Of course, there is a big difference between what she does, and what Richards did. I can think of some fucked up things I would say or do. I have no moral qualms over the US doing what it has to do to maintain it's position in global affairs. And I do have a prejudice. I think organized religion has caused more war, death, and hatred than all the shaved-head neo-Numbnuts in the south. I look at southern Baptists and think "you hate gays and are ruining this country", then I look at muslims and think "you hate jews, and quit blowing shit up before you force our hand and we blow you up!". I struggle with that sometimes because I think that there is a strong social awareness in religion which is good-hearted, and there are some non-judgemental good eggs out there.

What is a racist? Can someone say racist things, and not be a racist? Can someone simply be "prejudiced?" What is the difference? How can countless black hip-hop artist unleash homophobic lyrics with no sense of irony? Can blacks be racist? I know several hispanics that have said disparaging things against blacks. What is that, reverse-sideways racism with a lemon twist?

I know I'm making jokes, but I think it would be interesting to get everyone's honest opinions on race. We all know someone that has harbored a racist thought, or said a racist remark. But is it something they do to minimize an entire people in their mind, or is it something they believe in their heart and soul? "America is great, cheese tastes good, blacks are inferior?"

I know I don't believe in AA. And I know I cringe whenever NMN or Spike Lee or Dave Chappelle do bits about how racist white people are. Because, as naive as this may sound, I think most of us aren't. I know lots of cops, and they work with lots of races. And the white ones, behind closed doors, all admit to me... "we don't discriminate against anyone. We don't have time, we don't put forth the effort, and it doesn't make a damn lick of sense in the first place."

To I Am Never Wrong: It may be true that most whites don't actively discriminate against other races, but racism goes beyond discrimination. It's an attitude that pervades our psyche at the deepest level, and I think it does exist in most whites today. That's not to say it can't be overcome, but that will never happen if we continue to deny its existence.

I also wanted to add one last thing and say that I applaud Jerry Seinfeld for everything he said and for risking his own reputation to support a friend.

I pretty much agree with what Diana has been saying, and I'm in the exact same situation.

The one thing I would add, though, is that I'll freely acknowledge that the dumb, racist stereotypes that dominate most of our culture and media have in fact impacted me and are there underneath everything, even for me. And I consider myself to be just about as anti-racist as they come. See, everyone has prejudices of some sort. It's human nature, and many of them are perpetuated and encouraged and often outright created by a racist society. So I'll be willing to admit that the cultural stereotype of the criminal young black man is there, in my brain. But, I don't think that makes me racist, because whenever it crosses my mind I immediately shoot it down and tell myself how fucking stupid it is. I don't think it makes me racist, merely a product of a racist society trying to fight my way out of it.

Armando,

Granted, we're moving a little off-topic with a discussion on the "fence with Mexico" issue. However, it bears the thought that this is not a racist issue, rather a legal one.

At no point in the history of the United States have we allowed unfettered immigration - until now. There has always been a quota system whereby the government allows a certain number of immigrants so as to limit the cultural intrusion. In fact, until the 1960s, the government operated on an "open door, closed door" policy that created time between waves of immigration so as to ensure cultural assimilation. That is not the case with the current situation on the southern border.

Consider this: there are roughly 300 million Americans. If 30 million hispanic immigrants arrive (there are already around 15 million) then 10% of our country is neither documented nor legal. A society simply cannot propagate itself in this case.

Your point about the Canadian fence is the sort of absurd hypothetical that obfuscates intelligent debate on this issue. Clearly, there are not groups of Canadians trying to immigrate illegally.

As you stated, I hope I've sounded neither speech-like nor offensive.

Big ups to the NMN- I've followed your blog for more than a little while and find your thoughts consistently provocative and whats wrong with a little provocation? In issues of race it is certainly the white mans Achilles heel and clearly the reason that caucasion people are so profoundly uncomfortable when situations like "Kramers nigga rant" occur.
The truly, blindingly, overwhelmingly ridiculous aspect to the "apology" is the fact, and it is a fact, that you are a racist, Mr. Richards and any personal work must begin there but certainly can only begin by admitting and accepting your truth. Have no fear because you are not alone. I am bi-racial (Mexican/Irish so start with the jokes but be aware I've heard them all) and have experienced, like so many people, racism from almost every angle and have dished it out when I found it neccessary. Human beings are tribal and racism is a truth so please don't hide from it because it only pisses us off. I don't hate Kramer, I just see him a little more clearly now and that's ok. Was I shocked? Hells yeah! Especially by the lynching reference (where the hell did that come from???) but the truth can be ugly before it leads to the light.
In short, my experience has taught me that almost ALL people are racist to some degree so deal with it. Kramers' shit makes me stronger, not weaker and he is the one who has to bear the consequences which undoubtably will include lifelong banishment from the Hollywood scene. So welcome to retirement Cosmo and thank your lucky stars for those Seinfeld residuals!
I also have to add similiar words of praise to Jerry for trying to help a friend and to Dave for his excellent work at steering Kramer during his apology. Fine work in a most uncomfortable situation. Bravo.

Bravo! NMN has finally found a topic of discussion for which no one can accuse him of being over-sensitive or too confrontational. But where are the commenters to defend Mr. Richards? Surely someone out there has the balls to admit that they think he was right! Come on out and let us run you out of cyberspace on a virtual rail! It's a good sign that we're all outraged by Mr. Richard's abhorrent behavior, but I agree with NMN and the other posters that we still need to examine the institutional racism that envelops us as effectively as the Force. As Obi-Wan said, "It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." Or, in the case of the dark side revealed in this incident (pun fully intended), it threatens to tear us apart. I think Joe is on the right track in recognizing that he carries some unfortunate racial stereotypes around in his head, as most of us surely do, but I disagree with his characterization of racism as "human nature" - this stuff is not genetic, it's learned (apologies here to any socio-biologists in the crowd who claim that even the simplest organisms can experience kinship and altruism in a manner that favors "us" versus "them" when it comes to survival of the species, even on a cellular level. That's another whole topic for discussion somewhere else). And I think Some Guy is grossly mistaken when he describes affirmative action as "a racist program designed to help some by hindering others," and goes on to say that "Racism, even when used for honest means, is still going to inspire more racism in return, which ultimately defeats the purpose entirely." Sorry, friend, but you're confusing racism (a deeply ingrained and irrational belief that you are superior to someone else solely by virtue of your recent heritage) with discrimination (by itself a neutral term meaning to note and account for differences that might make a difference - remember "One of these things is not like the other" from Sesame Street? - it's not wrong to observe that black is black and white is white, but it's illegal, and again, irrational, to make a conscious choice to treat people differently solely because of those observations). Affirmative action does nothing more than level the playing field. For example, ever since the Bakke decision, discriminatory quotas reserved for minority students who may not score as well on standardized tests (that otherwise serve as the determinative measure of an applicant's qualifications) as their white cohorts are not allowed, but a more holistic evaluation of each individual student applicant that takes into account their background and the fact that they may have had to overcome the institutionalized racism that our grandparents and parents may have passed on to us, either intentionally or inadvertently, is perfectly legal.

I'd really be interested in NMN's response to black writer, director, and actor John Ridley's recent article in Esquire "The Manifesto of Ascendancy for the Modern American Nigger"
wherein the author apparently concocts his own contorted logic that niggers who act like niggers become niggers, thereby distracting our attention from the ascendancy of such glamorous over-achievers as Colin Powell and Condi Rice as role models (could Clarence Thomas be far behind?). Unfortunately, on the way to making his point, his article was hijacked by his choice to actually print the word "nigger" and he felt he was left without feedback about the actual content of his original article, only the hue and cry of the politically correct polizei. He responded with a blog on the Huffington Post "Nigger v. Queer: How Gays Got it Right", addressing his right to use and defuse the word as he pleased. But, back to the point of Ridley's article, does it make sense to play successful African-Americans against niggers? Do any of us benefit from further divisiveness? Where's Bill Cosby when we need him?

If you discriminate against someone because they are white or asian, as in the case of the michigan school system, it is racist.

Kramer is only the tip of the iceberg. There are millions of white Americans and whites across the world that feel that way. We as Black people need to stop this silly MLK dream BS and end this living nightmare. Whites only respect violence and we will continue to suffer unless we do what it takes to end this BS. We can kill for crack but not freedom!! WTF The reason the word 'cracker' and 'nigger' are not the same is because whites were not enslaved by the most brutal and evil slavery known to man. The word nigger was used to magnify psychological operations early in American history for free labor and some sick idea of superiority. The only superiority I see is a much higher degree of evil. Calling us niggers is not what upset me the most, the comment about lynching and sodomy is what really got me steaming. The words are not nearly as bad as the hundreds of Black men and boys that hung from trees. Second, when you speak of rap music... A little history for you stupid David Duke repeating idiots. Rap music started out as uplifting the Black condition in the world. As soon as white children started buying rap, the so-called 'gangsta rap' became the dominate rap format. There were many more positive rap groups back when rap was really Black music. Non-blacks buy 80%+ of rap music for the last 13 years or so. Your children drive the market by dollars, rap is commercial (white washed) so to reference it is silly. By reading the comments posted it again proves whites are not that intelligent, whites relied on evil and technology to gain the upper hand on other races. But do not think your azz can't be dealt with, the game is never over.... As a matter of fact it just began. Keep spewing your BS all across the world. We are listening and tired of your BS. Black people worldwide let us get our stuff together and don't whine when they only be what they are. Let us pool our resources and starve the racist where ever they are. We don't have the continuity to truly be racist, we do not have any real power to render them financially and politically impotent. Never allow one Black dollar get into the hands of a white racist; no matter how much you need or want an item they produce. We will never forget slavery and we will honor our ancestors for their resilience, strength, bravery, and endurance; properly one day. Let us never forget, less we find ourselves in the same position. Let us crush their ideology out of existence; this is the only thing we should be working towards the revenge of our ancestors and the awakening of our children. We should not be ashamed of being enslaved because we are the victims of slavery and the after effects of slavery; in this society whites are very proud of their role in slavery and subsequent racist apartheid system. I would think a rational and good person would be ashamed of this action, but NO, they are proud and you consider them not evil? How could you do half of the things they have done for over 400 yrs and be proud of it? And you state God bless America? What God bless the enslavers and tortures that are greedily devouring resources across the globe only to feed some psychopathic ideology? Good or evil God? Use your conscious to decide.

Just read some of the sick rhetoric these so-called humans produce:

http://homepage.mac.com/garyligi/iblog/C1344787019/E20061121175908/

I just want to say, as a white person in response to Sick of the BS, that I am not proud of the role white Americans played in the oppression of African Americans through slavery and segregation, but I don't feel guilty about it either. I think the comment that white people only respect violence is naive and dangerous. Being angry is a legitimate response, but inciting violence is absolutely not the best way to accomplish any sort of fundamental change. I don't have any answers, but I do make a daily effort to maintain objectivity in the face of cultural, racial, and ethnic differences, which hopefully promotes positive relationships and also makes me a better person due to the experiences I would have otherwise not enjoyed and learned from. And it really is an effort, albeit not one I bemoan, because our society is infused with racist tendencies that we oftentimes don't recognize. Just to consider approaching this issue is overwhelming for me, and to summarize anything here would be a foolish endeavor, so I'll agree with Jess that I'm grateful the topic has been brought to light.

I think that enough time has passed that we can laugh about this. "Fork up the ass"...where does he get his material. Hilarious!!

I don't dissagree that having an open discussion about affirmative action, the use of the N word, or racism in general is a good thing. In fact, I think it's vital, and I am constantly frustrated by our engrained urge to sweep the topic under the rug for the sake of everyone being "comfortable".

However, there is another side to this that really doesn't have anything to do with race that I want to bring up. Namely, the recent onslaught of completely meaningless celebrity apologies / blame reassignments we've been privy to over the last 6 months.

When Mel Gibson spewed his drunken hateful slurs to a Jewish cop, he said he was sorry - though not anti-semitic! - and blamed it on the drinking. When Congressman Mark Foley was caught propositioning minors through a series of sexually explicit text messages, he said he was sorry - though himself a one-time victim of pedophilia! - blamed it on the alcohol, and also checked into rehab. Now, we have Mr. Richards spewing the kind of excrement I really didn't think came that naturally to Northerners. So he says he's sorry - though he's not a racist! - blames it on "rage", and my guess is, at some point in the near future, he'll give some idiot "journalist" an interview revealing his dark battle with anger management issues and / or booze.

Daryl Hughley was right on the money when he explained to Jay Leno that while he had had his fair share of alcohol, excessive drinking had never "turned him into" an anti-semite or a pedophile. Same here. I've also been really really angry, in my life, sometimes with my African-American ex-boyfriend of over a year. Sometimes, I was drunk and angry! But somehow, I was never transformed into some kind of vicious neo-Confederate.

Bottom line: all of these PR agent / publicist-choreographed apologies mean nothing, and though I usually long for the days when I'll be blessed with children to raise, this ain't one of 'em. What the hell's the lesson here, folks? If you apologize on national television for letting your neo-nazi / child molesting / KKKesque identity slip out, then that's ok?

As far as the prior arguments being made:

Yes, I am for affirmative action, though, no, I obviously don't think it's a solution without problems. There are problems; and I've seen first-hand how AA can harm African Americans simply by creating a situation where whites have some kind of excuse not to take them seriously. This said, it's better than not helping people get an education or employment in a country wher surprise! some people (who aren't racist!) certainly think and sometimes even express horrible vicious racist things!

And yes, I am politically correct, in the sense that I try to be as respectful as possible of others, (this used be called simply being polite), and because the anti-PC movement has gotten even trendier and more arrogant than the advocates of terms such as "differently-abled" ever were. Not only that, being anti-PC has given some (maybe not all, but some) individuals a weird excuse to "call a spade a spade". In both senses.

And as a White woman, who was raised in West Africa, Jamaica, and North East DC, by loving, (dare is say it) educated (!) civil-rights supporting White parents, it disgusts me that so many people would cling to any excuse to regress, or to excuse those who clearly never evolved.
So far, these bullshit reasons include: Alcoholism! Rage! The fact that Blacks themselves use the N word! The perception that the PC movement is silly! But also, and worst of all: He apologized on national television!

This is directed at no one in particular:

What I find funny when people discuss Affirmative Action is that they automatically revert to the old reverse discrimination against whites argument. In fact, affirmative action has proven to benefit white women the most, so it's not merely a race based policy nor was it meant to
be. That's why its particularly funny when I hear a white woman talk about how "stupid" and "unfair" affirmative action is to everyone.

I wish people would stop viewing affirmative action as a means of hurting one set of people instead of helping another. But if they can't get past that and they believe that they are being hurt by affirmative action, well, then, too motherfucking bad.

You don't feel like your ancestors' lives should have any reflection on your lot in life now? Well, many of us would love to be in your shoes, but unfortunately, our ancestors were treated like goddamn livestock and that has a helluva lot to do with our lots in life now.

We live in a society where simply being a white male is already an advantage unto itself without any need to delineate it into any policies or laws. At least with affirmative action it's all out there in the open for everyone to see. All around us exists cronyism, nepotism, and favoritism, and we obviously haven't reached any kind of societal equilibrium among races or between sexes.

If you are in the mood for a bit of humor on the dark side of human nature, search around for different forums discussing this topic. Within a day, anti-semetic remarks, at my best guess aimed at Richards and how the "jews" keep the blacks down and control the world, came out of the woodwork, many comments made from self-proclaimed black people. Lesson learned? Everyone is racist. Everyone. People can play the victim card and cry all they want, but we all have blood on our hands. I used to think they Jews had it the worst, because as Jon Stweart has said, pretty much everyone hates them. Whites, blacks, catholics, muslims, europeans. Now, though, I have to go with the gays. The gays are the whipping post for pretty much everyone. That's why I will vote for any measure to help them get ahead. Damn, after all the crap they go through, they deserve a fuckin' break.

An honest question:
What are British people of African descent called? Are they African-British? I keep hearing that "black" is an offensive term to describe African-Americans, yet "whites" is the most widely used term to describe caucasians.

This is absolutely not meant to stir the pot or anything, as people should be called whatever they prefer. I'm just legitimately curious to know when (if ever) it's acceptable to use the term "black." How about for people like Sammy Sosa, who has dark skin, but is of Latin descent, and I don't think an American citizen?

@ I am Never Wrong: Michael Richards is not jewish so that would be funny.


Firstly, I don't remember jewish people being slaves in America. Secondly, I'm pretty sure they have an easier time fitting in considering they're still white. Judaism is a religion not a race, and religion is arguably much easier to hide than skin color. Same goes for sexuality unless you're a huge flamer. Even then you can tone it down. See: Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Dougie Howser, etc.


Yes, racism is wrong, black people being racist is hypocritical, blah blah. Even if everyone were a racist, you're fucked if you're not the group in power and the victim of racism. I don't see how blacks hating jews and whites hating blacks is comparable when jews have considerably more power in society than blacks.

Sick of the BS:
"So Jen your people have drove the earth to hell and now you have the absolute advantage from the evils of your past you now want to the world to stop and say they won?!?!! You are naive, and name one period in history your race was not a war or killing people and/or animals across the globe. You are a war race, and that is why you dont respect Black people, because we do nothing in the face of your evil. No matter what I say you will face your history in the future, the world is awake now, and it is best you atone."

Sick of the BS, your comment makes no sense. For what should I atone, exactly? I didn't choose to be born, but I do choose the actions I commit everyday. I'll atone for my mistakes, if you like, but no one else's. You say I don't respect black people as if you know me, and you tell me that I'm evil because of the color of my skin, as if you're superior to me because you're black. If so, then I don't care to read what you have to say.

"Whites only respect violence and we will continue to suffer unless we do what it takes to end this BS. ...because whites were not enslaved by the most brutal and evil slavery known to man. ..." - Sick of the BS

Humans in general are capable of great evil (and great good thankfully). That is something all races seem to have in common. However, if you are going to use slavery as the basis for your argument that whites are inherently more evil and violent than other races you should recognize the reality that when freed American slaves were returned to Africa (Liberia specifically) the first thing they did was set up plantations are enslave the local populations. Therefore, blacks are apparently capable of partaking in slavery as well. As such, deriding the white race as inherently more evil than other races for partaking is slavery is insincere in light of the fact that blacks (and everyother race I can think of)has been involved with slavery at some point as well. We are all evil it seems.

Great story my nigga. That made a lot of sense. It's good to see you take a different approach to something that was so obviously racist, but I still like his character on Seinfeld, just not the remarks he made on stage..............

For the person who asked...
we don't use terms like African-British in the UK. The correct term is usually black. We don't use 'coloured' and the 'n' word is certainly not something I hear on a regular basis. In fact, unless I'm watching a Tarantino film, I never hear it.
Curious - what do Americans think the difference is between racist and prejudiced ? Here in the UK, it's pretty much the same thing.

And from a foreign perspective - that clip of the comedy show would probably have been banned from my work-place computer network if it was possible, as using that language is considered worse than using the 'c' word.

>>

Sick of the BS, please give your sick bullshit a rest. I mean, seriously, no race has a monopoly on barbarism. To argue otherwise is not just naive, it's plain ignorant.

dear Sick of the BS:

yes, white people are fucked up. we had hitler, stalin--some might like to add bush, i'm just sayin'.

asians have pol pot, kim jong il, and some other folks i'm probably forgetting.

blacks have the rwandan genocide. there is evil in every race, color and creed. now take your bullshit about how some races are purer than others because of the quality of their suffering and go home, thanks.

i'd like to add that i don't give a shit that some wacked out comedian went crazy and lost his shit (or his meds) and called someone niggers and made some sick comments about lynching or pitchforks or whatever the hell he was getting at.

what i do care about is that there are people--an awful lot of black people fighting, fuck that, dying--in the middle east every day, yet some jerkoff comic spewing bigotry is somehow important news and that is not. everyone's priorities are up their asses, they spent all day on CNN on this shit.

lenny bruce was right all those years ago. the words have power, but only if you let them. i'm sure i'll get reamed for this but i also don't really give a fuck.

>>

Livvie, this was so good, I thought it should be re-posted.

(I think this is the most I've posted on these comments pages ever.)

...and like GI Joe said, "Knowing is half the battle."

Can we all just get along?!

Vermillion another Michael Jackson type word playing to convince themselves self-hatred is normal. You can not compare10 year occupation to over 400 + years of brutal slavery. Now I can not make you white but I can dismiss stupid rhetoric. Have you ever wondered why Black neighborhoods are microcosm of Black Africa? The same people you love and admire have been putting evil self-hating Blacks like you into power and supplying both sides with arms to rip each other apart. See like most say silly things because you miss a lot of the puzzle. You only have 1/8 of the facts but you try to speak with authority. So you believe if we keep appeasing whites we will be safe? Then why are we dying by the millions worldwide? So, you believe we are in our condition simply because we have darker skin, not the plans of unseen men bloodthirsty with power? You are worse than the whites that posted; I have more respect for them. You think because you happen to have Black skin you speak truth. You are mentally dead, you are the product of slavery, the physical chains are nothing compared to the mental bondage you freely keep yourself enslaved too. The don't have to worry about the mentally dead idiot like you because you are self-defeating, Congratulations. Read what REAL Black people know:
Taken from the "African Origin of Biological Psychiatry" By Richard Kink MD
In the removal of the chain of mental slavery it essential that one knows the history of African scientific achievements.... A slave has little knowledge and consequently is less in control of his life, dominated by others and the immediate environment. Today's mental slave of African descent is afraid.... Still believes in the European, who promotes such lies. Mental bondage is invisible violence. Formal physical slavery has ended in the United States. Mental slavery continues to the present day. This slavery affects the minds of all people, and, in one way, it is worse than physical slavery alone. That is, the person fail to challenge beliefs and patterns of thought which control him, he will defend and protect those beliefs and patterns of thought virtually with his last dying effort. SELF CONTAIMENT!!!
You are mentally sick and do not know it. That is the grand design of your Masters. I have broken these bonds and I want my people to do the same. You can stay in that condition but don't expect all of us to be this dead. I do not want war with the white race I want the complete Mental Freedom and self-determination of my people. Make no mistake you master will draw blood to keep most like you, I am a realist not a coward fool like you!

More Latter....

First off, thanks. I have never been personally assaulted online before. So obviously I am doing something right.

It is funny that you say that because I have Black skin, that I think that I am speaking truth. Isn't that what you are doing? Assuming that because of your skin, your statements have more merit than anyone else's? It seems that self-hatred isn't my problem, but yours. You are so insecure (like many a racial supremacist) in your own skin that you have to denigrate others.

I never said anything about appeasing white people. But what about you? You are here, supporting white people by using the computer they sold, posting on a website they created, frequent, and advertise on. You are even using their language (though how well could be up for debate). And as I said before, you even use the same phrases as the racial extremists you equate all of them to be. You seem to be quite comfortable in utilizing these things while spewing so much hatred for them.

I never claim to speak the truth. I only speak what I know, and I can admit when that knowledge is lacking. I do not have every single second of the entirety of human history implanted into my brain. But neither do you. And unlike me, you DO claim to know everything.

And you can post your little articles, just like anyone else, but it doesn't give your arguments more merit. It just shows that you found someone with the same deluded thoughts as yourself, only with a couple of letters after his name.

You do not know me. Don't even try to claim to do so. You have no idea of what I have been through, so forgive me if I do not defer to your judgement. I am perfectly in love with myself. You say that I hate Black people, and yet you have resulted to ad hominem attacks and name-calling instead of speaking to me like a person. Of course, you don't respect me. I don't agree with you, so automatically I am beneath you. I am ignorant because I don't fall all over in amazement of your grand statements. I am self-hating because I would rather be kind to my enemies than slit their throats. I am 'their' slave because I won't be YOURS.

I know there are problems, and many of them stem from the very dark history of this country. But people like you have yet to do anything constructive about the problem. You are lazy, not because you are black, but because you would rather just blow it all to hell than roll up your sleeves and work to change things.

If we keep ignoring personal resposibility, and blaming others for problems that we ourselves aren't trying to fix, then any outrage steeming from that is nothing more than mental masturbation. You may be satisfied temporarily, but it doesn't get you anything new.

I will not call you names. I will not call you ignorant. I will not treat you with disrespect. In the end, you can say whatever you want about me. I will do what my parents taught me: accept that you don't like me for no real reason, and still treat you as a human being, no matter who or what you are.

I frankly don't care if there is more later. I am done now.

You are lazy, not because you are black, but because you would rather just blow it all to hell than roll up your sleeves and work to change things.

That simple? world affairs are in disarray because of lazy people? Black are dying because we are lazy. Wow. This is the master key? Roll up our sleeves and things go away? The past wars and maddness is because we want to die? We don't want good jobs and meaningful work? We don't want to support of families? I'm done, this is beyond silly.

lol, you thing so? (laughs at the fool, with pleasing eyes)

Uh... yes, I do. That was my point. (looks uncomfortably at the man looking at him with pleasing eyes and giggling)

This is in response to George who was way up thread who claimed that the US has always had quotas. Not quite true - the US instituted the quota system for immigration in 1924 primarily as a means of keeping Southern and Eastern European migrants out of America. The gov had already passed a law making it illegal for Chinese to enter the country in the 1880s. However, the 1924 act did not place any quotas on migration from Central and South America. Moreover, when the border patrol was founded, it was primarily meant to police the Mexican border for illegal Chinese immigrants. Americans were more than willing to allow Mexicans to come into the country undocumented and unobstructed to serve as cheap agricultural labor until the Great Depression.

Yo! Serious ass-whipping by young Vermillion. TKO!!!

What does it mean, that the first thing I thought was if he had screamed cocksucker or cunt or basically any nasty thing but jew or nigger this would be a non-issue? Is that just the state of affairs in America? Everyone else is fair game? I bet he could have talked smack about bitches and faggots the whole time and no one would have cared.

Curiously enough I saw the apology part (before seeing the actual rant) with my friend (who is 50 and black) he rolled his eyes and said he must have said nigger. Then we changed the channel.

This could be an opportunity for a real examination of attitudes in our nation, but I strongly doubt it will. It will just remain a stupid incident.

I'm going to go eat turkey now.

I am not an African American, but my last name is Gonzalez. Do I get pissed when friends call me wetback, beaner or whatever, no! Get over it! African Americans are the only ones to blame for their problems. Yes they were screwed by the white man, but that was years ago and what have they done since? Nothing but bitch and moan. Go to school, get a job, and quite bitchin!

"Affirmative action is pretty much the least that white America could and should do to atone for its treatment of black people and all oppressed people in this country."

I did not repress black people, and neither did my ancestors, but I am white. Why should I pay for something that did not happen to you and I did not do? Just because some people who share the same skin color as me did it?

Word is now the 2 guys he went off on want money as part of their compensation...any thoughts?

If american slavery is the most inhumane and sick thing you have ever read about, then you obviously haven't read a lot of history. The american slaves were not the first slaves in history, and there is no reason to assume that the american slaves were treated worse than any other slaves in history, either. Jews were slaves for several thousand years if were are to believe the bible and jewish history...The history of civilizations in general involve some sort of slavery, every where you go through every point in time. Some are willing slaves, some are unwilling, and some sell their own people up the river to make a buck...something tells me that building the pyramids didn't involve just a few whippings here and there either.

Wait... so how is America worse than the Egyptians and Nazis? I mean, no offense, but the thought of Americans being worse than Nazis has to be the most PC-liberal-dumb-as-shit thing I've ever read. And I've read a Jeff Foxworthy book.

"I am perfectly in love with myself." (Vermillion)


Vermillion? I'm a little bit perfectly in love with you too...


Kayla, I just want to say to you that I cannot even imagine that you might think that no other slavery has involved rape, torture, or death. Do you think the Nazis anesthetized the Jews before sending them into the gas chambers or the ovens? Do you think the Pharaohs gave their slaves gifts and pats on the back for a good day's work? Do you honestly think that no woman was ever raped or sexually tortured or abused by anyone ever before African slavery came along? To this day women from EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, of every race and nationality, not to mention age (5 year old sex slaves in Thailand, as just one example), are sold into sexual slavery.


Does that make African slavery in America any less horrific? No. My point is, there is no such thing as slavery that is fun-time happy slavery. There is no way to justify saying that one kind of slavery was/is worse than another, especially if you already know that "[...] Americans weren't the only ones to commit such acts [...]". To say that you were "[...] more appalled by the treatment of African slaves than any other [...]" just makes no sense in that light.

P.S. Did I forget to mention that very recently it has been brought up that women in Africa STILL have their genitals mutilated so that they will not experience sexual pleasure and therefore not be sexually promiscuous? BY THEIR OWN FAMILIES!?


Also, Kayla, I don't know about anyone else, but I am certainly NOT calling you a dumb-ass. :) I am only suggesting that NO slavery is better or worse than any other for those who are its victims. (Also, I don't think it's "horrible" that the Holocaust museum gives out those buttons... though you are certainly correct about similar atrocities still being committed. Perhaps there should be more buttons? But that's not really going to make everyone pay attention... and that is the horrible part.)

you have my vote for best comment on this thread. ever.

I was under the impression that the "Never Again" pins referred to being vigilant about all genocide and to not sitting idly by while it goes down (see: Rwandan Genocide, U.S. Reaction to). I never interpreted it as referring solely to the Holocaust.

I don't know who taught you that the mistreatment and human experimentation of American slaves was just "common" and wasn't a guaranteed aspect of the institution, but that's wrong. I mean, nothing I have said is that radical. I don't even understand what the argument is about. You can't force me to eradicate all that I've learned on the subject. You're saying that I can only state my opinion if I had been there to witness it. Well, I'm sure you weren't in Egypt or Germany or America to witness any of this either. Like I've said before, I'm basing my opinion on books that I have read, which is the only way I could.

About the Civil War - initially slavery was a non-issue all over the country. Most northerners believed that black people were inferior to the white race. Even Lincoln in his senatorial debates against Douglas stated that he didn't want to free the slaves - he just didn't want it to spread to other countries. When the abolition movement started, it was a very small movement and would have been murder on a political career if a politician openly supported it. Most of the motives that started the civil war were political and economic ones, the end of slavery was just a lucky byproduct of the war, fortunately.

Maybe the only reason why I think American slavery was so terrible is because it actually was and because 150 years after it ended, people are still unaware of just how horrific it was. I just think it's hypocritical to look to the Nazis as the most horrible racists to walk the earth when we can just look at our own history for similar acts that lasted unchalleged for centuries.

I don't even disagree with most of your statements. Like I have said before... Slavery, genocide, all that, is horrible no matter where it happened or what the circumstances are, how long it lasted, or how long ago it occured. I'm not trying to make light of the Holocaust. Dear God, that was an extermination of an entire race... that went on for far too long. Just the fact that such an operation was conceived just baffles and saddens me. I just wish more people would become aware of other sufferings that have occured and that are occuring right now! It's tragic to me that people are so ignorant to all of these tribal wars in Africa and ignorant to the fact that American slavery was more than just black people having to work all day without getting paid. The Holocaust was not the first human ill to infest a race of people. It has happened before... and I don't care if you can't wrap it around your brain that it happened in this country, but it did. And it is "guaran-damn-teed" that it will happen again.

I'm sorry but none of what I've said is dumb. It's just informed.

Now about Michael Richards - yeah, he's a racist. When I first heard about this it wasn't really a big deal to me. I even ignored this article for quite a while before I was bored enough the other day to click on it. And my goodness hearing him say that word with such fury was devastating. I don't know if I can look at Kramer the same again. :(

Amen to still beating a dead horse... but here I am again, anyway...

Kayla, perhaps the reason that most people focus more on the Holocaust is because it was so much more recent, so much so that most of our parents can remember it; in fact, my pseudo-husband's parents were IN it. There are still so many people alive today who actually went through the horror of that time, including Jewish survivors of the death camps, that the pain comes more readily to mind. Again, I certainly do not mean to say that the American slavery was better or not as bad or not horrific in any way. And I certainly agree with you when you say that "I just wish more people would become aware of other sufferings that have occured and that are occuring right now!" I did not mean to demean your view, I was just positing my opinion that slavery is evil, no matter what kind or when. (And also, my apologies, I went back and reread my posts and it sounded like I was attacking you; that was truly not my intent.)

I think we do agree on this point: people do need to recognize that history needs to be understood in order so that it is NOT repeated. Additionally, they need to be aware of what's going on in the world around them now so that the irony of the "Never Again" buttons becomes a possibility instead.
Okay, I swear I'm done now. No more dead horses for me. Except this: Kayla, I respect your intelligence and your well-readness. (Well-readness?? I think I made up that phrase.)

I know someone(George) said something about this a long ass time ago but believe it or not illegal immigrants have tried to sneak in from Canada. I know this because I'm from Michigan and it was on the news. So yes, lets build a wall to keep out those pesky Canadians. Why don't we build a wall around around Florida too while we're at it. Walls for everybody!

Vermillion: THIS: "The one term I absolutely hate? Nigger or any version thereof. Just don't ever call me that, no matter what color your skin is. It is a real testament to how much a person respects you when, after you have made it clear, they still insist on calling you that, especially if it has a history with you. But if they want to call themselves or others niggas, whatever. I won't do it, and I don't want anyone doing it to me. I am just not ready for that word to be okay with me."--completely sums up so many excellent points. Thanks for the good reading this (boring) Monday morning--and for making me feel more at home!! :)

If only someone could make a movie about racism...

What, "Crash"?

...if only someone would make a good movie about racism.

An article in Rotten.com under "Racial Slurs" has this to say:
"Why do people use racial slurs? Because they work! Nothing shuts down a conversation faster, or gets your point across quicker, than an old-fashioned slur".
Of course, you have to be mucho creative or have great timing to make a slur sound funny. Richards has none of these traits unless it is written into a script. Great comedians relish taking apart hecklers with style. Richards just had a sad meltdown.

And just white people against black people. I meant - NOT just white people etc.

"No, but from what I understand (and I could have it wrong--if someone knows definitively, please by all meaans post), "cracker" comes from the very same horrific context as "nigger"--apparently it's what slaves called their masters, the "whip-crackers.""

Alright, I see what you mean here, but...no, I don't know, I guess I just don't get it...who's the "victim" in this scenario? Definitely not the cracker. Therefore, how is it just as bad as "nigger"?

"Therefore, how is it just as bad as "nigger"?"

I never said it was, just that it possibly comes from the same awful context, which should give some people pause. Anyway, all of this begs the question: does something have to be "as bad as" before we can think of it as a "no-no word"? I personally haven't given any of this enough thought (not being a fan of either term). Perhaps others can weigh in.

ranylt--Nah, I don't think something has to be "as bad as" to be a no-no word. I mean, I've been called a "bitch" and a "cunt", and I really wasn't too fond of either instance (if that even applies to the same situation here...I'm kind of sketchy on that, but you might know what I mean).

I think maybe what the poster was trying to get at was that, yes, 'nigger' and 'cracker' may come from the same context (can't shed any light on that myself, sorry), but were still used in really different ways, and therefore might not be as offensive in the same way. Say a slave-owner called a slave "nigger", and the slave called the slave-owner "cracker". Who would get the harsher punishment? Just my two cents.

Be angry, i completely understand that. I understand about alcoholism and everything that's fine. What i do not understand is the myth of inferiority. Seriously, what do people who insist on holding on to an unfounded mythology that certain people are always superior and other will always be inferior. To call for the lynching of a human being and the implication that you control their life and death infuriates me as a black man, and they wonder why there was a need for the black panther. All i can say about that issue is you are certainly welcome to try lynching, we will see who is the last man standing

*and I do know the Urban Dictionary isn't exactly an authority on all things etymological, I just wanted to show that other people got the same meaning behind the word.

Apparantly, the tit biting dogs was an example of how far it had gotten.

I'd rather be shot dead than have my breasts ripped off by body, or doing manual labor in the summer in the south with peppers stuffed inside of my wounds, or raising someone else's baby while I have no idea where my own are, or being raped every night by some random person that I hardly know.

But that's probably because I don't believe in an after life - which is a completely different subject.

And, honestly, I think it's disrespectful to those who have suffered either tragedy to try to make one seem more severe than the other. All my opinions are based off of my own personal reactions which are all based off of my own life experiences. Initially, hearing about the tactics slave owners used in order to keep their slaves psychologically and emotionally bound to their plantations appalled me so that I was pissed that I hadn't heard about it before. It's just frustrating to know that in this country on the ground that I rest my feet on when I walk out of my house, some slave woman's breasts were ripped off by hunting dogs, in order that she can never nurse her children again or her masters children. Punishment for trying to run away and live like a human being should? Every person on this earth should be free just because they were born. She is of no use anymore. Nothing. Degradation of a people at its most extreme. Not the only instance, and not the only tactic used. That's so evil to me. So so evil.

I didn't finished reading your post because it came off as kind of angry and insensitive to me, and made me a little sad. Although, you probably didn't mean it that way, I guess.

em - I never heard that about the origin of "cracker", but it makes sense. And like ranylt said, it seems so much more degrading to call someone that now that I know the context. Yes, it is in response to the ill treatment of slaves, but I can see how someone today wouldn't want to be arbitrarily associated with something like that.

"They fear that day so should you silly little devil. You are EVIL and like fire you will burn yourself out."

Thanks Sick of the BS, for pointing out the real problem--the strain of evil that each of us has inside, including you.

Maybe it takes the form of racism--calling someone a nigger in hatred, or just contemptuously dismissing the entire white race.

Maybe it takes the form of homophobia--dragging a gay kid behind a truck, or just turning up your nose at the "icky" sex.

Maybe it's sexism--raping a woman you feel has gotten a little too sure of herself, or merely posting about the "sand in her vagina" when she perceives injustice.

Maybe it's wanting to kill all the ragheads. Maybe it's dumping fake blood onto old women's coats. Maybe it's something as simple as not giving a shit what your gas mileage is, or not keeping your fucking mouth shut, like a grownup would, when you think of the perfect cruel thing to say to your loved one in an argument.

We can waste time arguing about affirmative action or which is more offensive, nigger or cracker, but I think it's tunnel vision. Racism is just one facet hatred can take. Hatred, and the misery and powerlessness that cause it, is the disease--all the "isms" are just the symptoms.

Every single one of us has the potential for hatred of all forms. Work on that root cause as well as the symptoms, and I think the symptoms can't help but ease up.

Not that I think discussions like this thread are anything but amazing. You guys are really something.

Hi kayla...I respect that opinion, although I disagree.

You're also right about my post being a little insensitive. I'm honestly sorry if it sounded overtly cold. I dove into the facts of the matter, rather than concerning myself with niceties.

I'm glad we have people like you to provide a diametric approach to these issues.

(And of course, no, I am not comparing my or anyone's off-the-cuff comments on a paltry message board to MLK's rhetorically ingenious "Letter" in either content or relevance.)

Hey! Did you guys hear that Kramer called some dudes "niggers"?

You should discuss it.

When someone loses his or her temper, the internal editor takes a break and what comes out is what that person really feels.

I didn't buy Mr. Richard's apology. I certainly didn't buy his passive stance, and his attitude that his tirade was somehow something that happened to HIM. Yeah, the fallout is certainly happening to him, but that's just the consequences of his actions. Which he should own.

I'm a performer (folk music), and I've come close to losing my temper onstage a time or two. Losing control of yourself onstage is never a good thing, in my opinion. It's just unprofessional. The audience is paying for the performer to be in charge of the entertainment, and to be entertaining, not out of control.

i think this thread can just about be prounced dead.

We lost him.

Call it! Dec. 4th, 44:48 (tokyo time that is)

My mom told me once that she didn't buy the explanation that a person would say or do things while drunk that s/he wouldn't normally do; that being drunk merely made those words or actions more accessible (they were there all along), and that being drunk made a person more of whatever s/he was to begin with: happy, mean, silly, etc.

Which is my way of saying that we reach for what's there, in times of stress or intoxication or fatigue or any other condition that makes us act out. If I'd been in Richards's position, I believe the first thing I'd care to comment upon is the hecklers' rudeness, not their skin color. Jerks are jerks , no matter the color of their skin.

Is Richards a racist? I think the more pertinent question is: Is he a bigot? Merely calling someone a racial epithet does not a racist make, because while these words are offensive, they don't necessarily imply superiority of the speaker or inferiority of the target. As I understand it, "racism" is the belief that one race is superior to another, and acting on that belief. Giving preference to one person over another because of race (in job hiring, etc.) is racism. Being a bigoted jerk isn't.

Should Richards have used these words? No. Should he have apologized? Yes, I think so. Is he a racist because he used those words? I don't think it's that clear-cut. The point is that when he was pushed, he responded with a word that was in his arsenal. We all know the word, but that doesn't mean that we'd all use it, or even think it.

Incidentally, I think the hecklers had it right on the nail: Richards isn't that funny (with the exception of his spastic performace as Stanley Spadowski in "UHF") and "Seinfeld" (also not that funny) is pretty much all he's known for. Before this brouhaha, he was pretty much washed up.

racism still has to go on. I know they have black
characters on the simpsons and family guy but
look at it. the black guy speaks goofy like a
flunkie and uncle tom. and doctor huxtable, i mean
dr. hibbert. i feel bad for those characters
asses. but seriously if racism did'nt still exist
the simpsons main characters would be black. I
know it came out way back in 1989 when things were
"different" but if they were black how long do you
think that shit would have lasted. Certainly not
17 or 18 years. Just look at eddie murphys the
P.J.s . it had a crackhead on there and it probably made white folks say for a moment yep
that's them niggers but at the end of the day they
were probably like fuck that where's my King of the Hill? And Kramer i watched his show yeah he got a little pissed off which is being made even bigger because he's famous as hell off that show
but yo it's a whole lot of non famous people who
feel worse than that. Hell the entire police force
in america for starters. just think about it.