Pajiba

I have friends and family serving in our armed services today. To think they could be gone is a scary thought.

So yeah, there's no way to be hip or snarky where it comes to our men and women in harm's way and even less for those who sacrifice everything so that we can all sit here in relative comfort and tranquility and spend our time being bitchy over the Interwebz regarding movies.

Thank you.

"Happy" Memorial Day?

Is that really the word we want to use?

It's supposed to be a day of remembrance.

It's supposed to be a day of remembrance.

What, you can't be happy on a day of remembrance? Celebrate the lives of the people with cheer instead of melancholy?

I don't know, it just sounds weird. Like saying "happy" Martin Luther King or "happy" Veteran's Day. It should be about mourning not celebration, it's not fucking New Year's.

I have a nephew in the Army awaiting deployment to Afghanistan. My dad was Navy and my FiL was Army. The toughest thing I've had to serve was dinner. I don't know shit, except that I'm lucky to live where I live.

Thanks to all who serve(d).

I think our country should find a better way to “celebrate” our men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice for your great country. It is too bad that we use wars to solve all of our problems.

I had a brother that served in the military for about twelve years, he told us he was in Special Ops black bag kind of stuff but later on I found out he was a cook, he told me they had to classify him as a cook to throw off people that were watching him.

I had a brother that served in the military for about twelve years, he told us he was in Special Ops black bag kind of stuff but later on I found out he was a cook, he told me they had to classify him as a cook to throw off people that were watching him.

Posted by: Pookie at May 31, 2010 11:33 AM

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I think I read or heard something about your brother. He was involved on some incident on the high seas a while back, some ex CIA douche tried to steal a nuke. They way they tell it, your brother killed all of them. Used karate or some martial arts shit on their whole crew.

Killed him in a knife fight the way I heard it.

"This is all anecdotal, but the majority of people I know who have served in the armed forces joined because they had nothing better to do, were fucking up, or for the benefits (college money)..."

I take it you don't know anyone who was drafted to Vietnam, Korea or WWII.

"I take it you don't know anyone who was drafted to Vietnam, Korea or WWII."

No, I don't. However, to clarify, I was commenting on the video, which depicts only actively serving people. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine no one drafted in those wars is still currently serving.

...the majority of people I know who have served in the armed forces joined because they had nothing better to do, were fucking up, or for the benefits...

Anecdotally speaking, then, the majority of the people *I've* known who joined up (my great-grandfather, my grandfather and step-grandfather, my father, my uncle, my cousin, my pseudo-FiL, not to mention a number of friends) did it out of a sense of patriotism and "doing the right thing". Incidentally, none of them were drafted, and served during both war and peacetimes.

Interesting, the different experiences people can have of life.

I know we're being earnest and all, so please let me say that I EARNESTLY freakin' love Anna von Beaversmack right now!

Uncle Doug, Grandpa Carl, Grandpa Bill, Uncle Bill, (Vietnam and WWII) - thank you. My two employees being deployed to Afghanistan next month - thank you and I hope you stay safe.

I don't know, it just sounds weird. Like saying "happy" Martin Luther King or "happy" Veteran's Day. It should be about mourning not celebration, it's not fucking New Year's.

Lets settle this one quickly...

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. — General George S. Patton

As I am only 26, I never known a time that we didn't have a fully volunteer military. As such, I think it's important that we remember and honor the sacrifices our soldiers are making so that we don't have to. Happy Memorial Day indeed.

Pissant, I think you make good points. I don't think the majority of our armed servicemen/women do so for nobility. Most of them do so for a paycheck (or to blow shit up, in the case of my soon-to-be brother-in-law).

Also, I think it is a bit naive to claim that the armed forces are always fighting to "protect our freedom." That's nonsense. Obviously, if we didn't have an army we'd be succeptible to attack, but the armed forces are more often used to further a political agenda, rather than "protecting America" (a term which is shamelessly used by politicians to further their own ideals). To quickly reference this point, please see Every-War-Ever with maybe WW2 as the exception.

But listen, no matter what your ideas are on the use of military, soldiers deserve our gratitude and respect. Absolutely. No matter what reason, they have signed on to serve their nation even though death is lurking. So, criticisms should probably be saved for like, ANY other day of the year.

superasente,
Thank you for the reasonable response. I can only say that I disagree. If "serving their nation" is the last thing on their minds when joining/serving, I don't feel they are really serving their nation. If they are doing it for a paycheck, I feel they have received their compensation. Also, I feel this way every day of the year and I see no reason to not express these views on this day.

I see no reason to not express these views on this day.

But you should. The reasons should be obvious. Thats why people are bickering with you; you have chosen the wrong day to make your case.

But you should. The reasons should be obvious. Thats why people are bickering with you; you have chosen the wrong day to make your case.

Sorry, I should've said I see no good reason. I think I know the reason that you and anyone else who shares that feeling has in mind, I just don't agree with it. I'm enjoying having this discussion, and while some people seem to be offended by reasonable language, a few have agreed with what I've said or provided level-headed counter arguments. I have used little to no incendiary words and I have not intentionally insulted anyone on this thread or anyone in the military. I see no good reason why I should've held back from saying any of the things I've said strictly because it is Memorial Day.

A Canadian's POV here.
I worked on the movie Passchendaele, about the famous WW I battle that is often cited as the single worst battle in the history of anything.
A lot of the extras were reservists who were actually in line to go off to Afghanistan. (Yes, Canadians have been there and dying for a few years now.)
Anyway, there we were, filming on the very same land that was used to train the soldiers almost 100 years ago, with men still fighting what I percieve to be the ongoing ramifications of that old war, filming huge battle scenes that gave me only a slight glimpse of what those men faced so many years ago, and what they face today.
During filming, a soldier these guys knew died "over there". They named the tent city they'd erected to sleep in during filming after him.
Politics notwithstanding, these are people who are asked to do the insane: to put themselves in harms way, for reasons they might not understand, and to try to retain some semblance of humanity in the wake. They were quick to laugh, quick to honour.
And it was a common theme that often you are not fighting for King Or Country, or some lofty ideal. You are fighting for the guy next to you.
The first Armistace Day commemorations in 1918 as observed by those who fought it, were actually "Happy". They'd won The War. A lot of them had experienced the full bloom of youth, friendship, shared hardship, and the depth of emotion. For them, happiness was the best way to honour their fallen friends. Wouldn't you rather be remembered in such light? It was the families of those who fell who deemed it a solemn occasion. It was us. It is us.

I got the tiniest glimpse into the lives of these men, and I was proud to have stood next to them.
And I do wish them a "Happy" Memorial Day.

... and I say that as someone who got so teary-eyed during the Memorial Day concert I played in yesterday that I couldn't even read my sheet music.

Thanks, superasente, for that comment. I agree wholeheartedly.

I disagree very strongly with the politics behind and motivations for all the wars, undeclared wars, conflicts, skirmishes, etc. the United States has been involved in since WWII. However, I have great respect for all the soldiers who have fought, regardless of what their motivations for joining (or being "required" to join) the service might have been. I wish all our soldiers and veterans received better treatment. You lose a leg in the service of our country? You deserve THE BEST medical care and benefits the nation has to offer, better than any rich person could procure. And what's this "our flak armor isn't good enough/our equipment is shitty/whatever" crap? The government sends our citizens in harm's way and doesn't give them THE BEST in the world? Awards contracts to government cronies who then provide sub-quality equipment? Total motherfucking bullshit.

Anyway, that's just a tangent rant. I'll just say, I'm grateful for the men and women who fight and serve, mostly because it means I DON'T HAVE TO DO IT.

Thank you.

As far as the "thanks for a job" argument: just because the person signing up may do so for less-than-epic reasons, it shouldn't negate the fact that they signed up.

Also, one might argue that many of those signing up for "just a job" are signing up for a job that's a hell of a lot harder than, say, accounting, and frequently get a hell of a lot more than they bargained for (which is why the benefits are so great in the first place). Just ask a guy who lost both his legs from the knees down to grenade fire at Normandy, and spent the rest of his life alternating between a wheelchair and prosthetic legs that caused pain and constant infections in his stumps. So much so that he would, as often as possible, walk around on those stumps (which was also painful).

(I might also argue that being thanked is better than being spit on upon returning. On the other hand, when my father died, so many people said "I'm sorry" to my teenage self that I started sniping, "Why? It isn't your fault," so I get the "hearing it too often" thing.)

@ Vermillion: You didn't lose me. Mike Rowe doesn't do a thing for me, to be honest. Don't tell the other chicks.

Presumably, one of the many things those men and women died for was our first amendment right to free speech, 365 days a year (and the extra on in leap year).

C'mon, you don't really think I was suggesting that Pissant should not be ALLOWED to speak his mind, do you? My suggestion was one of decorum rather than legality.

Psst - Feisty - Remembrance day, 11 November.

My HS choir was returning from a trip to D.C. in the spring of 1991. We had been singing patriotic themed music all over the city as part of the Bicentennial Salute to America. This coincided with a lot of soldiers returning from the Gulf War. The airports were packed with them. While assembling at the gate at Dulles for our flight back, our 90 person choir (which was accustomed to being snapped into action by our director for impromptu performances in airports by this time) got the signal to assemble RIGHT NOW from our director. We proceeded to perform a few of our arrangements of patriotic music. I really hadn't thought anything of it at the time. What I later found out was that the reason for the instant concert was that a large group of uniformed service people returning from the gulf were in the next gate. Apparently they all stood and saluted behind us while we sang, and many wept.

My grandfather served on the Belleau Wood, which was Kamikazied in the Pacific. He survived, but was scarred emotionally from watching his crew die. He is one of the ones who would NOT have accepted thanks with more than a nod. But there was not a dry eye when The Battle Hymn of the Republic was sung at his funeral a few years ago, and the rifle salute and American Flag presented to my grandmother were a dignified testament to the service that he so desperately wanted to provide to his country that he joined the Navy early, requiring special permission to do so.

Saying thank you is an effortless thing, and if one person in 10 receives your thanks with a moment of joy, or feeling of peace, it is well worth it.

replica,
I'd like to think that I'm very capable of seeing forests. I'm fairly certain that the group of individuals who have significantly affected history encompasses much more than the armed forces. Kings and queens, doctors, inventors, engineers, and I'd be willing to bet a whole lot more groups have affected history just as much as military (and usually together with it). Hell, according to one of my teachers, Alexander the Great was inspired to conquer a significant portion of his known world after seeing a bust of Julius Caesar (kings/queens + art). So, yeah, everything that has happened had led us to this point, but I don't think the military can be designated as the one group that has affected it the most.

Now I don't remember what my point was, but I'm gonna post this anyway.

Wait...was that "bright individual" bit a backhanded compliment?

Hail the victorious dead

"Hell, according to one of my teachers, Alexander the Great was inspired to conquer a significant portion of his known world after seeing a bust of Julius Caesar"

Hmmmmmmmm....

I had a teacher who told us how Gen. Sherman was inspired to go on his famous march to the sea after seeing a photo of Patton.

If you want to have a ten minute rant about why you hate soldiers and Hitler really had it right than you should. I'm not saying I won't kick your ass but it is your right to say so.
I may not like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it to my last breath.

I'm sorry, but are you going to be defending my rights with your last breath or are you going to be beating my ass? Let's just say hypothetically I said, "I hope Hitler comes back and kills every American soldier with a bazooka." Would you beat my ass or defend me with your last breath? I'm confused because I think that beating my ass would be a pretty clear violation of my rights. Or maybe you'll be defending my rights with your last breath WHILE beating my ass? Maybe you'll be so out of breath from beating my ass, you'll only have one breath left with which to defend my rights.

You're not exactly in the thinking man's army, are ya' Matt?

These sort of fights that are over ideology seldom produce a definitive answer to the question at hand. The problem with trying to explain ideology in one sentence is too much or trying to explain it in a million sentences is not enough. I would like to think that Memorial Day is a day of reflection on our past and present wars. Reflection and dialogue comes at the beginning and ending of all wars.

...and last - I feel that video is really, really cloying and dull. But I can accept it, because the message regarding saying thank you, is a good one. I could live without the instructional aspect though. Yeesh.

Hell, according to one of my teachers, Alexander the Great was inspired to conquer a significant portion of his known world after seeing a bust of Julius Caesar (kings/queens + art).

Um, ignoring the timeline mistake, but aren't both those guys mostly famous for, and got their kingdoms mostly by, warfare and the ARMIES they led to victory? Especially that Alexander fella? Caesar I can see being lauded for his political maneuvering (even though his military victories were what got him such a lofty position in the first place), but Alex, for all intents and purposes, was too focused on conquering to actually govern, right?

So their military work actually enabled them to influence others through things such as art. It gives them the necessary historical context for the art to be effective. If we didn't know who the hell they were from their military conquests, the bust would be meaningless.

Not saying your point didn't have merit, just that the example you are using doesn't work for it.

... and I say that as someone who got so teary-eyed during the Memorial Day concert I played in yesterday that I couldn't even read my sheet music.

Pissant: I encourage you to read more history. Also while my experience with service members has differed from yours, I submit that if your view is accurate it's more of a reflection on our society as a whole than on our military in particular.

As far as Memorial Day being an opportunity to 'blindly fellate' our men and women in uniform: I'm fairly certain it's actually a holiday to honor those soldiers, airmen, sailors, and Marines who were killed in the line of duty. While you may disagree with the current deployment of our troops (they're not even personally protecting YOU after all), you should keep in mind that we are also honoring the guys who ended slavery, put a stop to the Holocaust, defended democracy in Europe and elsewhere, and have saved countless lives in humanitarian missions.

I'd say that today they deserve your respect today, if not your 'blind fellation' and quibbling. Me? I'm sucking with my eyes wide open. God bless the troops.

(wipes mouth)

Tastes like freedom.

I reckon so.

I cant even be bothered to acknowledge the angroids and ranteroons and such like.

My brother is in training, as we speak, in between being a Uni student, to go out to Afghanistan. I dont pray but I wish every day that in the 2 years it will take him to complete University, and training, the war will end.
My Grandfather, Tommy, served in the navy. He was on two sunk ships, he went to Hiroshima after the bombs, (the man has also smoked since he was 13 and has ZERO cancer). He refuses his medals and wont walk in veterans parades, and will talk about the fun he had off duty, but never, ever of the combat he saw.
So thats my experience.

As to the rest...All I'll say is this; This war is wrong and fucked up and illegal and lame.

But there are little boys and girls over there fighting and dying. If they do it for a love of destruction, for the benefits(which are, as has been detailed, on numerous occasions, shit all), for the regular pay, for the adventure or for true patriotism and belief in their respective countries...then it doesn't matter. They're heroes .
I thank them for their effort and their sacrifice, even if i dont support their reason for being out there.

Except for that guy who tossed the puppy.
Fuck THAT guy.