Pajiba

Someone is trying to do what you're interested in.

See here: http://www.thecapturedbird.com/

Could be awesome since del Toro is involved.

The Harry Potter films have been doing some growing up. They have gotten darker and more complex, and magic and dragons galore. But full-on fantasy requires so much suspension of disbelief that the story has to be that much better just to not lose the audience. And I don't trust Hollywood with story, lately.

I know that this sounds stupid, but I like my fantasy to be somewhat believable. What I mean is that there has to be a reason for whatever is happening and for why the characters can do what they do. "It's magic" is an excuse, not a reason. I guess the best way to describe it would be that there has to be a Science Fiction element in the fantasy. An explanation. I'll accept damn near anything if there is solid reasoning behind it.

I also agree with you about more hard-R fantasy. I've stopped reading a lot of fantasy authors because they got too childish for my taste. Sword battles are bloody and gruesome affairs and I would like them described as such. Also, sex. Sex is realistic in certain instances. Don't gloss over it with a fucking star-wipe to the next morning.

I would like fantasy as well as other genres viewed as minor, such as sci-fi, treated with the same degree of respect and maturity given to projects marked for oscar respectability.
Just give fantasy movies good actors, good scripts, a decent budget and talented crews and I simply don't care if there's magic, monsters or none of that.

I think part of the problem is that instead of finding creative and engaging fantasy scripts written specifically for movies, they (THEY), keep trying to cram these dense, detailed book series that take years and years to write into 3 hour sequences. They're better suited to a long television series (like GoT's), which can take its time to build characters and invest the audience. Personally, I almost never want to see my sci-fi and fantasy novels adapted to film. I like what's in my imagination just fine, thanks.

So if someone were to go the non-adaption route (I like not knowing how things end occasionally, too), I would suggest a) get someone who knows how to write dialogue that doesn't sound either wierdly contemporary and out of place or ridiculously corny King James-type nonsense (I'm talking drama, not comedy).

Then b), please, please, give me a bad-ass woman character that wears weather appropriate garb, and doesn't look like she'd break just trying to hold a dagger.

I think one big problem with trying to make a good fantasy movie is the "suspension of disbeleif"/world building that is necessary for good fantasy. Any great fantasy series typically has a very rich and industry world that is full of history, cool concepts, differences as to how magic works, different cultures, societies, etc.

I think it's very hard to convey that kind of information effectively into a 2 hour movie. In most cases, everything feels rushed and clumsy or just part of an incomprehensible exposition, because of the need to get to the actual plot. Many of the plots, without a good understanding of the context of the world with which it takes place, aren't terribly compelling.

I think that's a reason why a series, like "Game of Thrones", will hopefully work and why "Lord of the Rings" and the "Harry Potter" films have worked. They have enough time to build the richness of the worlds in which the action takes place.

"Conan the Barbarian" has been on Encore this month and I've watched it twice over the last few weeks. It's one of those films that once I start, I can't stop. I think "Conan" works well, because there is so little dialogue that it gives the film plenty of space to create a feel for the world. The plot is so simple that it takes very little setup. It's also a world with relatively "low magic", which helps.

I'd love to see more well done fantasy movies. I don't think it would be viable to make a film that wasn't based on a very well known book.

Discworld. The movies produced by Sky One from England have been okay, but I want a full big screen franchise launch of The Watch stories starting with "Guards! Guards!" The mix of high adventure and recognizable tropes, but given a satirical twist and edge, seem like slam dunks for me in a post Harry Potter environment. And The Watch stories were always the most structured and traditional as opposed to the Witches or Rincewind. And there is ample material to make it into an ongoing franchise. Also, I'd cast Jason Isaacs as Sam Vimes.

I'd also like to see the Thursday Next novels adapted but that just isn't going to happen.

I think that the biggest problem with translating fantasy to a movie format is the combination of expensive (but getting less as CGI becomes cheaper) effects for all your dragons/sorcerers/strange vistas common to the genre, and the fact that you are definitely marketing to a niche. That's going to create budget problems re: script/direction/acting.

But assuming this is overcome, I second the idea of putting the Corwin half of the Amber books in mini-series form. And Vance's Dying Earth books would be great to see visualized. The hardest part there is to find director/scriptwriter/actors who can make the style of dialogue work as well in a movie as it does in the books.

Here's the thing. Some of the best fantasy literature is also the densest and hardest to access for a wide audience. These are the books that spend well over a hundred pages establishing the rules of the universe, who all the characters are, their histories, and what is at stake for every character in the book. If the author doesn't do that, they're assuming the reader is well-versed enough in particular mythologies to jump right in. That doesn't translate to good film. It's a conceit of fantasy novels--the massive amounts of exposition--that cannot translate to a visual medium.

I'd like to see more original fantasy properties developed specifically for film that focus on creating the world in early establishing shots and jump right into the action. This doesn't mean the film needs to be non-stop battles, blasts of magical lightning, and kidnapped princesses, but something--anything--needs to happen that the audience to latch onto. Set the stakes and get to getting. Is it that hard? Apparently so, judging by what we've gotten in high fantasy before.

Frankly, I think Magical Realism works better for film, but that's another debate. That's fantasy elements shoved into a recognizable world, where the variety we're discussing is all alien to the audience. It's an uphill battle, but it's one worth fighting.

I love the fantasy genre. And I agree with 2HB that part of the problem is attempting to fit complex epics into 2 hour movies - it's really hard to establish complex political structures AND rules for magic/creatures that isn't too expositiony. I think Dragonheart was a fine example of the genre - it wasn't amazing, and it wasn't epic, but it was solid and enjoyable. I actually really love Willow , and not ironically - a typical quest movie, but with characters that were people and not stereotypes. (Ok, based on stereotypes, but they read like individuals) And the movie wasn't afraid to use humor - which is another typical problem - fantasy movies taking themselves too seriously.

Now that I've shot my cred...I don't object to fantasy movies going dark (aka, with gore and rivers of blood) but I don't think that's the only salvation, any more than saying that's the sa

I also look to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon as a guide for what could make a spectacular genre fantasy movie - if you replaced the Zen aspects with straight-up magic.

I do think mini-series are more likely to be satisfying than movies when it comes to fantasy, when it comes to adapting beloved books.

And pretty much yes to everything SassafrassGreen said as well.

One theme I always wanted to see explored would be traditional fantasy elements - orcs, elves, dwarves, magic - as seen in a modern day setting. Basically, instead of always having some epic Ragnarok battle in a medieval environment, try to keep those key elements relevant in a world with cities, skyscrapers, cars, the internet, etc.

If done poorly, yes, it would be a hot mess. But the same applies to every other genre, so why not?

What the genre needs is what LOTR had: a great story and massive budget. Most have one or the other, and you either end up with a good story with cartoon-drawn dragons or some great creatures and a shitty script. There has to be a balance there, but it's not going to happen until people start taking the genre more seriously. Maybe Game of Thrones will be good enough to get us there.

Love the sword. Hate the sorcery. I just don't like stories with magic. I got burned too many times. The writer sets up a hopeless situation against an unstoppable foe, then somebody pulls the Amulet of Twee out of their ass and everything is la dee da.

I don't mind fantasy creatures who have different abilities than humans, like ogres and monsters and giants. Dragons are fine. But spare me the wizards and spells and such.

Give me a swords against the empire adventure, with romance, palace intrigue, dragons, an army of beast-men, and a band of merry scoundrels. Some heaving bosoms would also be nice.

Oh this thread just made my week!

First off fantasy without magic and dragons? It's not fantasy now is it? It's historical frigging fiction. Two totally seperate genres. Oh and it's boring as all hell. Like period pieces without the pretty ladies in lowcut victorian dresses.
Now onto the meat. I want you to sitdown for this. What if we made fantasy movies that didn't spend two hours dragging their balls across Tolkiens face? Wizards, dwarves? He did it already and did it better. Why don't we get some nerdy ass writers in a room with a case of energy drinks and let them make up their own shit. Dog monster with cats for feet? I don't care. Sure, try it. But don't sling the same tired shit at us again and again. The joy of fantasy works, is in watching someone create a world, a complex interconnected world, that works off of its own rules and boundaries. Like it or not, Rowling nailed that shit.
I'm not saying you have to spend an hour fleshing out the world so that I understand it, but go into it like that Monsters movie that just came out with the aliens. Loved it by the way. Just drop some people into this world and let things play out. Make a world that feels sustainable in the background without having to explain every nook and cranny of why the wizard council can't seal the seven ages of Demloch's balls. I DON'T CARE. Make a world invent some cool characters, explain why people throw fireballs, and then write a story for it. Fantasy is about inspiring wonder. That's it.

Whoever suggested the Orcs series: Fuck! You! Markus Heitz isn't worth shit as a writer.

As for fantasy, I'd too like something R-rated. There is tons of material out there to adapt, but something original (in more than one sense of the word) would be nice, too.

As for adaptions: There are some astonishingly well written Shadowrun novels, like the ones from Nyx Smith. Or Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams. Steven Erickson would be rad, too, but that is even harder to adapt than Martin's works.

Fabmax, first of all-NNNNERDFIGHT! Marcus Heitz didn't write Orcs. Orcs was written by Stan Nicholls. Dwarves was Heitz, and unless I'm mistaken it was translated into English. And really, Shadowrun? The Cuisinart of fantasy literature? We've got elves, cyberpunk gibberish, 3rd rate noir, 4th rate steampunk and spiritual claptrap. The nice thing about Shadowrun is even Uwe Bolle couldn't fuck it up because it's already a steaming pile.

Agreeing with Discworld!
They are realistic enough not to be hard fantasy and funny enough to capture a larger audience. The characters are accessible and relate-able without a ton of backstory. With a careful re-writing of the source material it could be quite good.

Also, with all the kerfluffle over vampires and crap, I could see a dark and twisted Machiavellian dark elf movie.

BWeaves, I LOVE the idea of a Harry Potter animated series (a la The Last Airbender). I think it wouldn't even be out of the question after the movies are done. It'd give them a chance to do everything that wasn't in the movies, plus Rowling could even expand on the world. It'd be a blast!

And in general, I think fantasy movies as mini-series is the best way to go. Some of these stories are set in these huge, complicated worlds that 2 hour movies just can't do proper justice to.

Just give them a good budget, for crying out loud.

i often think about john crowley's little, big as a film. impossible?

I just want a good hero quest that isn't a backdrop to a war story. think joseph campbell.

i mean, friggin heroes travel vast distances just to bring a turnip back to a village, and it is fuckin epic.

what i don't want, in our confusing world of endless wars with countries we depend upon and do business with, is to create a mythology that supports the propaganda that enemies are evil and must be conquered.

i loved The Dark Crystal. it was about joining and harmony. it had little people in unimportant lands finally convening to heal, not make war.

Well sir I have about 30 pages written of the script that is just for you. It's like Hot Fuzz for fantasy, a fantasy action comedy if you will, intended to be filmed in the most epic sort of Zack Snyder and Wachowski-style slo-mo porn. I'm talking about that sick Planet Earth slo-mo, predators just barely frozen in motion, moving through gelatin, you feel me?

There's a fellowship, but they each start out with their own entourage so there's lots of people to kill off. One of these characters is a dwarf. The dwarven party has a run-in with a buttload of zombies, who can talk and have british accents (introduced by a zombiefied John Cleese, natch) and get down to chopping. This sort of carnage is nearly as close to the dwarven heart as gold. The main dwarf character is killing zombies like a thresher reaping grain. He looks over at one of his dwarf buddies doing the same thing, in slooo-ooow motion, with the droplets of blood falling like rose petals and spraying estactically from their beards (cause they're fuckin soaked in blood, see), and they make eye contact, and it's really deep, holding eye contact, see. They're having a moment.

Yeah...that guy dies.

Actually he could survive being bitten and slowly zombify so as to prolong the drama. The zombies stop chasing them after having a taste because they don't like the taste of dwarf. No wait, the bitten dwarf chops the bridge and sacrifices himself to be their afternoon tea.

Been a while since I've thought about this script.

I'm all about the R rated sword and sorcery flicks. LOTR was more high fantasy, but it kicked ass and I look forward to The Hobbit.

Anyhow, Conan is also coming out soon. I can't find out what this movie will be rated. Anyone know? Hopefully, the people behind it will have learned a lesson from the previous two entries and understand that the R rating is much better for a character of Conan's merits.

I'd be tickled pink if they could nail the surrealist fantasy Western appropriately. The Dark Tower and The Stand should have established enough cinematic vision in Hollywood's mind to try out a similar theme.