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Empathy For The Devil

By C. Robert Dimitri | Posted Under Miscellaneous | Comments (70)



michael-vick-dog-fighting-9e43f1e626cd9a5c_large.jpg

Today I address a controversial topic.

I love dogs. I absolutely love them. I often cite them as my favorite animal. When I am a guest at someone’s house, I have been known to completely eschew all polite social pleasantries to frolic with any dogs that I might meet.

Yes, I am that guy at the party sitting in the corner, sipping his drink, and scratching the mutt-in-residence behind the ear as I telepathically confide in my canine friend that speech is wasted on humans.

When engaging in an intensely competitive game of “Serious Thumbs Up” with my nieces, I concentrate on the absence of my dearly departed four-legged childhood friend Zooey in order to maintain a serious visage and thus win the game.

Unless you consider my lack of human social skills controversial, we have not arrived at the controversial part: Lately I have been feeling as if I am inclined to forgive Michael Vick.

Michael Vick’s story is well-covered territory. Playing for the Atlanta Falcons from 2001 to 2006, he was one of the league’s higher profile quarterbacks. He earned three Pro Bowl selections and dazzled fans with a preternatural scrambling ability that established several quarterback rushing records. He was flush with lucrative endorsements. Then in 2007 we learned that federal charges were being filed against him for his involvement in an interstate dog fighting ring. His fall in the public eye was as precipitous as one might imagine. His endorsements disappeared, the league suspended him, his financial situation became a quagmire, and most notably he became one of the most widely reviled sports figures in history. Vick pled guilty to the charges and served 21 months in prison.

On an analytical level, I can understand the dog fighting allure. As an animal and dog lover, however, I do not understand this brutal and cruel practice. I do not relate to the enjoyment of it, which in my mind would require a disturbing lack of empathy, an emotion and consideration that I see as one of the best human traits. (The ability to empathize is also something that in my opinion dogs are able to express toward humans, which makes our mistreatment of them even crueler.)

In 2009 the NFL reinstated Vick, and he joined the Philadelphia Eagles as a backup quarterback. I will not conceal that as someone who does not like the Eagles, I found this development amusingly appropriate. If Vick would be allowed back in the league, then it suits my personal football-watching narrative that the team that takes this villain into their fold would be the team that I frequently regard as the premier NFL villain.

He played well when replacing Donovan McNabb last season, and his backup status spared him the level of scrutiny he might have received otherwise. Now in 2010 he has returned to the forefront with spectacular play that has won him the starting job over Kevin Kolb. Coach Andy Reid’s decision to reverse his earlier declaration that Kolb was the team’s starter raised eyebrows among pundits, but Vick’s performance on the field in two starts speaks for itself: 575 yards passing, five passing touchdowns, 67 yards rushing, one rushing touchdown, zero turnovers, and two victories. The Washington Post’s Michael Wilbon went on the record stating that at this point in the season Michael Vick is the league’s most valuable player.

After week one of this season, Vick was one of the most popular acquisitions in the world of fantasy football. I recommended to my girlfriend, who is new to the game, that snagging Vick from the waiver wire was probably her best chance to improve her team. She balked and stated that she could never include him on her team. Despite my stats-junkie nature and extreme competitiveness in fantasy football, I myself balked at the idea and wondered how many dog-loving fantasy football players throughout the population might be dreading the prospect of cheering for points from Vick once again.

The general sports reporting media seemed to have moved on from Vick’s criminal history, although the Philadelphia Daily News did resort to the lurid headline “Top Dog” in reporting Vick’s ascendancy. If a consensus in the world of sports commentary has been reached, it would seem to be that Vick served the prescribed time for his crime and should be allowed a second chance. Outside the sports world, many people resent that Vick has been allowed to reenter the NFL at all.

I have never been a person eager to judge others or assess what constitutes redemption or sufficient punishment for a transgression. Perhaps it is too convenient for me to bow to the supposed greater wisdom of our criminal justice system and the decree of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. There are many reasons I do not believe in the existence of hell; one of them is that an infinite amount of punishment for a finite amount of transgression is fundamentally unjust. A good parent does not punish a child with unending agony; a good parent corrects the child in a sternly loving manner that leaves room for improvement. Similarly, I must acknowledge that at some point hating and vilifying Michael Vick loses its significance.

There are other reasons that I do not find the energy to persist in any sort of crusade specifically against Michael Vick. It might seem peculiar to parse the matter like this, but I can tolerate his presence in the league and still actively dislike him for his past actions. Michael Vick is not someone I would envision as a potential personal friend, if that unlikely scenario ever became a possibility. Were Zooey alive today, I do not think that I would be comfortable if she were in the same room with the supposedly rehabilitated Michael Vick.

Most of my dislike for Ben Roethlisberger and Kobe Bryant can be attributed to very public allegations against them, and neither of them was ever even convicted of a crime. That might not make for a completely fair bias, but are not many of our rooting interests in the world of sports irrational or stubborn biases?

What do we truly know about these athletes on this grandiose stage that we have created? In most cases they are only names to us, made prominent by the level of their performances. I do not have the perspective to fairly evaluate the character or morality of any of them. Michael Vick is not the only player in the NFL who has done reprehensible things. I am inclined to cheer against Michael Vick, but have I evaluated the worthiness of every single player that receives my support? I have not.

Charles Barkley famously and controversially stated in 1993 that he was not a role model. His intended message was that parents should be role models for their children instead of those guys on television that can dunk a basketball. I respected Barkley for his statement, as it did place the onus on those of us in the crowd to assume accountability and more carefully consider the subjects of our adulation. Pointing out this misplaced hero worship does not solve the problem, however. This limited self-awareness does not put an end to the blind idolization of star athletes. That makes the individual athletes that do treat their position of influence with a measure of responsibility all the more valuable.

One of the more thoughtful sports commentators said something many years ago that has always stuck with me. He observed that as he became older he found that his rooting interests in the world of team sports became more aligned with individuals and less aligned with the teams themselves. I revel in cheering for my teams and against their rivals, but over the years I have increasingly realized the wisdom of his statement.

A few other things I recently heard about Michael Vick have given me pause.

First, I listened to an interview with him. There is no doubt that he has a motive to repair his public image, but I believed there to be at least some truth to the contrition in his voice.

Second, one of his first responses to the news that he was promoted to starting quarterback was to ask Coach Andy Reid how Kevin Kolb was handling the news. Concern for the feelings of the guy whose job he took demonstrates the empathy that I would tend to dissociate with someone involved in dog fighting.

Finally, this is purely anecdotal and rightfully can be rejected as hearsay, but I have no reason to disbelieve it. The tale I heard was that an acquaintance of a friend of mine took his pit bull to a Virginia Tech event within the last year and crossed paths with Michael Vick. Vick went out of his way to approach this stranger, personally apologized in spite of the fact that he expressed doubts he should be forgiven, and assured him that he realized the error of his ways. For a more public example of Vick’s attempts at making amends, just this week he spoke to Philadelphia school kids about the missteps in his past at an event that called for an end to dog fighting.

If that behavior describes Vick’s current path, what alternate path would anyone suggest that he should take?

I am still wary of Michael Vick’s character, and I think that giving him little to zero margin of error for any criminal activities is a perfectly fair condition in allowing him to remain in the NFL. I’ll definitely be rooting against Michael Vick. However, I hope to only be rooting against him as I would any other Eagle and that he finds personal redemption off the field.

C. Robert Dimitri is nothing more than your average American sports fan that has spent far too many hours in front of the television and has absolutely no further credentials. He reserves the right to change any opinions expressed here; unlike the practice of bandwagon sports loyalty, there is virtue in shifting a position when given new information.









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Comments

Only Eagles fans could boo Santa Claus yet cheer for a dog murderer.

Stay Classy, Philadelphia

Posted by: Brigonos at September 29, 2010 2:31 PM

The moral here is you can rape up to two women and your punishment is the same 4 game suspension that goes with a first time positive steroid test. If you fund a dogfighting ring with your buddies you can expect to be banned for two years plus four games. Another football player, Donte Stallworth, got drunk and killed a guy while driving. He went to jail for less than a month and was suspended for four games.

It also helps to be white and/or not a superstar.

Posted by: BillowingBackpacks at September 29, 2010 2:35 PM

Stay original, Brigonos. That's joke's only 40 years old now.

Well written Robert!

Posted by: Julie at September 29, 2010 2:35 PM

You make some very good points, and that was quite a well-written, reasonable treatise. However, my dog-loving self will always dislike and mistrust Mr. Vick. No matter how many touchdowns he scores, or schoolchildren he speaks to. It is most certainly about his lack of empathy, a quality I doubt a grown man can suddenly gain if they didn't have it before.

But that's just me. Woof.

Posted by: cydeleida at September 29, 2010 2:40 PM

I have never been a person eager to judge others or assess what constitutes redemption or sufficient punishment for a transgression.
---
Then you're in the wrong place.

Posted by: , at September 29, 2010 2:43 PM

That's how I feel cydeleida. I'll always root for my team, but my heart sank when the Eagles signed him (in small part because I knew it would give people like Bigonos ANOTHER reason to denigrate and marginalize Philly fans. Cause that shit never gets old.) I can cheer the team, I can be happy for their success, but when I think about Vick himself I just get pissed. And I understand that he went to jail, that he's made some efforts to repent for what he did. I just personally can not get past it.

Posted by: Julie at September 29, 2010 2:45 PM

Great piece on this topic, C-Rob. Fantastic.

I've been thinking a lot of the same things about Vick. The moment I heard he was starting against my beloved Lions, I knew his redemption story was already on its way to being written (The Lions make everyone look great).

I, too, love dogs. I always have. Definitely my favorite animal. I've been a dog owner for 31 out of my 36 years. So, while I find dog fighting and all of the abuse, torture and death that is involved with the act totally abhorent, my anger and rage at Vick has waned.

I feel like he's done his time, paid the price society deemed that he owed, and has reformed. I can never be sure about that last part, but until he shows he hasn't, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Another reason for my lack of rage against the man, despite what he did, is perhaps a bit more tenuous for most...

Vick tortured, abused and killed dogs for some reason. Like you mentioned, for him and for the other people involved in it, dog fighting must hold some allure. It satisfies some urger or desire in these people that allow them abuse and kill these animals.

I couldn't help but draw some parallel, again perhaps a tenuous one, between that and eating meat. I am fortunate enough to live in a society and have the means that allow me to eat pretty much whatever I want. I don't need to eat meat to survive or even be healthy, but I choose to do so because, well, it tastes good. Like those who partake in dog fighting, there is an allure to eating me. It's tasty and satisfied my "sugar tongue."

I eat meat knowing full well that many of the animals that I consumed were abused, tortured (and all of them) killed to satisft that allure. So, where do I get off being on my high-horse about Vick, where the only real difference between the two of us is that I (knowingly) had someone torture, abuse and kill the animal for me, instead of doing it myself. I didn't need to eat meat to survive, I did it because it tasted good.

That reasoning will likely not hold up for most, but, personally, I find it hard to escape. Probably why (unrelated to any of this Vick stuff) I stopped eating any meat other than chicken and fish a few years back.

I don't think I will ever be a "fan" of his or actively root for him, but I am no longer rooting against him or wishing ill will or bodily harm or anything.

I did balk at adding him to my fantasy football teams, despite the fact that one of my cardinal rules of fantasy football is "Try to start as many players on any team playing against the Lions".

In one league, however, even after toasting the Lions, he was still there on the waiver wire, so I just /had/ to snatch him up. His 40 some odd points against the poopy Jaguars were key in my ekeing out a 3 point victory.

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at September 29, 2010 2:46 PM

Agreed on well-written.

I don't know what to think of Vick.
Part of me wants to allow for a second chance. But an equal part of me kind of doubts that he would have developed this supposed empathy and remorse on his own if he had not been caught.
I'm not entirely convinced he would have changed his ways if that change had not been forced upon him as it was.

Posted by: Rykker at September 29, 2010 2:49 PM

I don't know if I've forgiven Vick for what he did to those animals. I read the SI article about the rehabbed dogs and of course it broke my heart. But, if he is truly remorseful and trying to make amends, I feel like I should accept it. I do believe in a heaven and a hell and ultimately I'm not the one deciding who goes there.

I think the real problem is the blind eye fans, owners, coaches, the media, etc. turn to other players who commit crimes just as heinous. Ray Lewis might not have murdered two people, but he sure as hell was involved and probably could've stopped it. And Leonard Little killed a woman driving drunk and only got 4 years probation. Then got another DUI a few years ago. And he played for the Rams! So we don't just turn the blind eye to players if they're all stars. I think what it comes down to is money. Professional athletes can afford to hire teams of the best lawyers in the country, and then the owners don't want the bad press so they help to sweep it under the rug. And that's just the way of the world; you can get away with almost anything for the right price.

Posted by: Austin asking for trouble at September 29, 2010 2:53 PM

Seriously, guys like Vick and Roethlisberger make me wonder about whether it's ever possible to root for people who may (I emphasize MAY) be sociopathic or psychotic. Stands to reason that whatever percentage of the population has that trait, it almost certainly isn't less in a sport that requires levels of psychotic violence, populated by guys who enjoy the thrill of popping other human beings as hard as they can.

Sociopaths, of course, can be extremely persuasive liars. It would be fascinating to know what's in the report of the psych evaluation Roethlisberger had to have done as a condition for eventual reinstatement. What if he IS a sociopath, and the NFL knows it, and his team owners (presumably) know it? And he gets to play and make millions of dollars and generate the worship of fans and all that? Are we actually rooting for people who are clinically quite crazy?

Posted by: , at September 29, 2010 2:53 PM

Thank you! I've seen several interviews with Vick, and I really believe he's sorry and that the incident changed his entire outlook on life. He spoke very frankly and eloquently about how being a tough guy from a rough place, he never realized how numb he had been all his life to the pain of the world. He talked about how being forced to address his treatment of animals made him realize how he'd been walking through life deadened to so much of it. I think he'll make a big difference for a lot of young men who start out like he did; most of them don't end up in the NFL, but Vick's message could save a lot of boys who are growing up "numb" from a bleak future.

Listen to Vick talk- I found him compelling. Then go watch any clip of Chris Brown talking about how "sorry" he is for what he did to a human woman, and tell me whose contrition is a lie.

Posted by: RhymesWithSilver at September 29, 2010 2:55 PM

As a part of the Philadelphia pet rescue community it saddens me to know that Eagles fans will quickly forget what he did once he gets them the super bowl ring.

Vick's efforts to clean up his image are because he needs to in order to keep his job. I don't think he's truly sorry for what he did nor has he learned his lesson. If it hadn't been for him getting caught I think he'd still be a part of the dog fighting today.

I'm not typically one to hold a grudge but I can't support him regardless of the fame he brings to the team and the city.

Posted by: greenblue at September 29, 2010 2:58 PM

Are we actually rooting for people who are clinically quite crazy?

Almost certainly.
Being a high-profile, insanely high-paid athlete does nothing to mitigate "the crazy," if one is afflicted with it. And I'm sure that quite a few more of the sports figures than we hear about are some fucked-up-in-the-head motherfuckers.

Posted by: Rykker at September 29, 2010 3:03 PM

Forbidden Donut, I want to thank you for eloquently expressing the mixed emotions I've had about Vick's resurrection. Well stated.

What Vick did was absolutely despicable, and he got what he deserved. I'm not a fan of his, but I was a fan of his playing abilities. The fact that he's resurrected his career, made long strides in speaking out against dog fighting, and trying to keep himself out of trouble does say plenty, but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, should be inclined to forgive him for what he did.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I'm going to wish Vick ill, I'd rather it be because he's wearing the uniform of the one NFL team I despise with every fiber in me, rather than engaging in revolting and anti-social behavior like dog fighting.

Posted by: Gus at September 29, 2010 3:04 PM

I definitely had mixed feelings when the Eagles signed Vick. I thought the man deserved a second chance; I just didn't particularly want him to get his chance with my team. I know there are some who will never forgive him -- and I'm sure they'll be here eventually, frothing at the mouth and falling all over themselves to dream up ever more draconian punishments -- but he really, I think, has gone out of his way to make amends. I'm not getting a #7 jersey (in part because all QBs are pussies) but I'm cautiously optimistic about having him in Philadelphia.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at September 29, 2010 3:10 PM

Michael Vick committed morally reprehensible, criminal acts against creatures who had no means of defending or protecting themselves from harm. He was arrested, prosecuted and convicted; served his time and was released. He paid the price for his transgressions and, from this point forward, my opinion of Vick will be based solely on current behavior away from football. I don't care whether he is genuinely sorry. I care that he never again commits the same heinous acts that led to his downfall, as that will mean more suffering for innocent victims of crime.
We are watching you, Michael Vick, on the field and off.

Posted by: Spender at September 29, 2010 3:12 PM

So what is Michael Vick supposed to do? He has already served his time (and lost a lot more than others who have done much worse things). I'm always amazed by people who seem to think that kids are so stupid, they idolize everything about an athlete. Besides, its the parents' job to sit junior down and explain to them what is and what isn't reality. And we are talking about a sport which is so violent, that statistical data points to an 8 fold increase in the risk of ALS to NFL players. You know how much brain trauma you got to experience to cause your immune system to attack your spine...its a lot. I can't believe parents let kids watch football let alone have pee-wee tackling.

Oh and the Ray Lewis charges were a complete joke. The case was so weak, they served a search warrant on his house in hopes they would find something real to nail him with. He plead guilty of obstruction of justice because he didn't know the full names and addresses of everyone he was with that night. I'm guilty of that every time I drink...

Posted by: Diablo at September 29, 2010 3:13 PM

I'm a sucker for a redemption story -- I need them in order to reinforce my belief in the possibility of redemption. After all, don't we draw on the best of ourselves from time to time to rectify, or at least compensate, for our own mistakes? And isn't that one hell of a struggle, without even adding the element of public shame? That's why I've always found Mike Tyson's self-flagellations so compelling, and it's why I'm rooting for Vick to succeed.

And who better than Vick to talk to kids about what path to go down? He has cachet with a lot of them that a teacher, cop, or even parent could never hope to have.

I also believe strongly that empathy can be learned, as I don't think anyone is born with it.

Posted by: sansho1 at September 29, 2010 3:18 PM

i was all ready to be a frothy rabid crazy person when i began to read the article -- when he was first signed to the eagles, i was pissed because i'm also an avid dog lover. (not in that way. gross.) i willingly admit that i find his offenses worse than a lot of the other charges, bullshit or not, lobbed against athletes. i hate people. i love animals.

however, you made some good points and that story about him taking his time to apologize to a pit bull owner made my insides "awwww" a little.

i have conflicting loyalties, anyway. i grew up in dc until high school, and then i moved to philly. my best friend in elementary school is a diehard redskins fan and now says i can stop being a traitor and start rooting for the redskins again, because i do love me some donny mac.

so, in the end, this comment was entirely pointless. it was a good read, c. rob.

and yeah, the "philly fans are assholes" bit is as old as betty white. let's just eat a lee's hoagie and move on already.

speaking of, tracer, can you mail me a hoagie? kthx.

Posted by: stopthemadness aka Angry Black Lady at September 29, 2010 3:34 PM

One counterargument to Forbiddendonut's position would be that we are actually nourished by the "murdered" meat. Sometimes it is provided by nefarious means (and kudos for telling fish and chicken to eat a fat dick) and that is truly unfortunate.

However, Vick and his ilk murdered dogs for fun and forced them to mangle/torture/kill each other, only to dispose of them when their usefulness came to an end. He actually killed dogs FOR FUN, and drowned/strangled them if they weren't strong enough to be winning fighters. This guy is a soulless motherfucker who took sadistic advantage of the inbred trust dogs have for humans for his own entertainment. And I'm a person who believes pit bulls are a menace and people should have to be trained and licensed in order to own one.

So while I can see a small correlation between eating meat and murdering dogs, it is tenuous at best.

Posted by: Kballs at September 29, 2010 3:36 PM

Yes, yes, come back to the Light now, ABL.

Posted by: Rykker at September 29, 2010 3:39 PM

All the arguments about Vick have already been made, here and elsewhere.

But from a purely practical standpoint, it occurs to me that the man knows two ways to make a living.

1. Playing football
2. Organizing dogfights.

Which would you rather have him do?

I'm inclined to cut him some slack. He pled guilty, did his time, and got his old job back.

I, like most others, will be watching closely.

Of course, as a Cowboys fan, I still hate the Eagles.

-Ralphie

Posted by: Ralphie at September 29, 2010 3:42 PM

It all hinges on whether his contrition and new insight is genuine to me. If it really, truly is, then he will be punished more by his own demons than any external act could commit. Because if he really understands, he would view it as I would myself, say if I did a bunch of drugs or something and cruelly tortured a bunch of animals.

It's understating to say I would hate myself after something like that. I'd be ill and question whether I should be on the planet would be more like it.

But I just can't tell. I can't tell if he's real in his thoughts or is just following the money the best way he knows.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at September 29, 2010 3:44 PM

Your belief is wrong, Kballs.
Pit Bulls only become a menace if some soulless motherfucker makes them that way.
They aren't born like that. They are actually one of the more gentle breeds, as long as stupid humans don't train them to be otherwise.

Posted by: Rykker at September 29, 2010 3:45 PM

@FordbiddenDonut at September 29, 2010 2:46 PM

"...Probably why (unrelated to any of this Vick stuff) I stopped eating any meat other than chicken and fish a few years back."

I don't get it. You worry about the cows and pigs being slaughtered and abused, but the chickens are okay with it. How is it different? Do you think the salmon enjoyed being pulled from the sea and suffocating on a stinky boat?

No offense - I love meat, but I don't understand the hypocrisy of not eating a certain kind due to their mistreatment but fine with another.

Then again I also don't understand people who are so enraged by animal abuse (which is disgusting) but don't get as enraged about abuse against humans. Weird.

Posted by: lizzy at September 29, 2010 3:47 PM

ABL, depends. Who are you rooting for on Sunday?

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at September 29, 2010 3:49 PM

Beautifully done!

Didn't want to, but have to:

As a Hokie during Beamer's earliest years at Tech, I was dizzy with delight when Michael Vick came on the scene and, with Beamer's guidance, put VT football on the national map. I was equally delighted when I was gifted with a Falcons 7 jersey for Christmas his first year with Atlanta.

Then he got busted for the dog thing (***hand over eyes, shaking head*** IDIOT!!!!)...well, now what?

The jersey went in the drawer and has only been worn at night in bed. I, too, love dogs...my grandmother bred and trained champion Rottweilers for 20 years. Pit Bulls I do not like as a rule...I know I shouldn't generalize a breed (especially in light of the grandmother's business) but go with personal experience only. Doesn't mean I think they should be fought for fun and profit. Disgusting practice.

But he owned up to (how could he not? Red-handed!!!)it, served his time, is trying to make amends. Would I allow him to pet sit my Australian Cattle Dog. Fuck no! Would I buy a ticket to watch that talented mofo pass, run, and score a shit-ton of points?...FUCK YEAH! He's fun to watch! Entertain me, dammit!

Continue to show remorse, and light up the damn scoreboard. I don't watch sports because I look up to the players as scions of virtue...I watch sports to be entertained...and jump and scream when a former Hokie does what he's paid to do: put points on the board. It's his J O B. He is allowed to earn a living...even as an ex-con.

And let's just not even go into the subject of his little brother...that asshole makes me all stabby. Go ahead and piss/puff away the talent, you moron. Give eastern Virginia a bad name. OOPS...I went into it.

***steps off soapbox***

Sorry for the rambling...can't form a coherent argument today.

Posted by: latvianluck at September 29, 2010 3:49 PM

They are actually one of the more gentle breeds

*Based on years of first-hand experience with them, in comparison to the many other breeds I also worked with.

Posted by: Rykker at September 29, 2010 3:51 PM

oh gosh..... i don't know.... i mean, i HATE sports. and i love dogs. and i own a pit bull.

i own a pit bull that was rescued from a city kennel, about to be euthanize at 6 weeks old. why? because she looked like she might be a pit bull. and in this city (cleveland), that usually means they are being bred to fight.

the kennel workers believes she was most likely the runt of a litter from some breeder looking to sell dogs for fighting. too small to be a good fighter or impress the local bad asses who want a "scary" dog.

i've read the court papers on what vick actually did, how many dogs were executed. sickening.

but if he has done his time and continues public service work to save this breed, then... well, he's still a piece of shit. but whatever. go play ball.

Posted by: glittergirl at September 29, 2010 3:56 PM

Rykker,

As a breed, pit bull terriers are more aggressive than most, and that is a documented fact. Unfortunately, they are nearly pure muscle, making them significantly more deadly than many other breeds when the attack switch is triggered. While I agree that not every single pit bull is a loose cannon waiting to attack, they have a history of being bred for fighting and extreme aggression. Some other breeds have also been "weaponized" in the past and make me just as nervous, by the way.

As a matter of fact, a pit bull next door turned on its live-in doggie buddy in their backyard a couple of years back and nearly killed it. I actually watched it happen. Take a wild guess as to what the owner said in the aftermath. You guessed it! That doggie was usually as gentle as the summer breeze, until he tried to tear his brother limb from limb.

So while I do not think pit bulls should be wiped off the planet by any means, they (and other aggressive breeds) need to be owned by responsible, trained, licensed owners to minimize attacks.

Posted by: Kballs at September 29, 2010 4:00 PM

oh, pit bulls are a wonderful breed. gentle & funny, and quite sensitive. they are also solid muscle and high energy. they need socialization, positive reinforcement training methods, and lots of love.

our pit bull loves everyone (people, children, other dogs.) she plays "hop" with a frog in the backyard, and carried spiders inside without harming them.

she's 50 pounds of solid muscle with a mouth full of giant white teeth who literally wouldn't hurt a fly.

from sports illustrated:

"A pit bull is like a Porsche. It's a finely tuned, highly muscled athlete," says [Stephen Zawistowski, an executive vice president of the ASPCA]. "And just like you wouldn't give a Porsche to a 16-year-old, you don't want just anyone to own a pit bull. It should be someone who has experience with dogs and is willing to spend the time, because with training and proper socialization you will get the most out of them as pets."

The pit bull's p.r. mess can be likened to a lot of teens driving Porsches -- accidents waiting to happen. Too many dogs were irresponsibly bred, encouraged to be aggressive or put in situations in which they could not restrain themselves, and pit-bull maulings became the equivalent of land-based shark attacks, guaranteeing a flush of screaming headlines and urban mythology...."

Posted by: glittergirl at September 29, 2010 4:02 PM

I don't get it. You worry about the cows and pigs being slaughtered and abused, but the chickens are okay with it. How is it different? Do you think the salmon enjoyed being pulled from the sea and suffocating on a stinky boat?

...
Then again I also don't understand people who are so enraged by animal abuse (which is disgusting) but don't get as enraged about abuse against humans. Weird.

Posted by: lizzy at September 29, 2010 3:47 PM

lizzy, I am well aware of the disconnect there and the arbitrary nature of the distinction I'm making at the moment. Well, well aware. It's something I struggle with. I don't really eat much chicken or fish, but still do so on occassion. I reckon I will stop in the future.

This statment, however, I will never understand:

"I also don't understand people who are so enraged by animal abuse (which is disgusting) but don't get as enraged about abuse against humans. Weird."

How does my getting upset at animal abuse some how prevent me from also getting equally enraged about abuse against humans? These are not mutually exclusive concepts in the slightest.

This happens to be an article about Michael Vick and dog fighting, hence all the people talking about how much they hate dog fighting. If this were an article about someone who abused women or children, I reckon you would see the same people posting here, posting about how big a scum bag "X" person is for having abused another person or how angry child abuse/rape makes people.

Kballs, like I said, I don't think my reasoning will work for everyone. I believe it's sounder than you think.

Sure, eating meat provides nutrients, but for any nutrients eating meat provides, there are a dozen alternatives to those nutrients that do not involve the tortue, abuse, suffering and death of another living being. By eating meat we CHOOSE to get the nutrients through suffering. Most of us are in a very fortunate position in the time and place we live in to have such a choice.

Similarly, there are manys the have FUN that don't involve the torture, abuse and death animals. Like, say, playing X-Box, boardgames, watching TV, internets, etc. Fortunately, most people CHOOSE to have FUN in ways that don't involve the suffering of another living being.

So, it really all comes down to choice. Do we choose to get our nutrients/fun in a way that causes suffering or in a way that does not cause/causes less suffering?

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at September 29, 2010 4:31 PM

Well-said, C. Robert Dimitri, and well-said glittergirl.

Pit bulls, like any animal, can be misused to the point of danger. It kills me that they have such a terrible rep, because I've met so many awesome pits.

As far as Vick, I hope he has learned, and is really working to end dog fighting, because it is one of the most despicable "sports" I've ever heard of, and I truly believe that you can't get enjoyment out of it unless you have some serious flaws in your psyche that most humans don't.

Posted by: nolalola27 at September 29, 2010 4:31 PM

As an Atlanta Falcons fan, I was heartbroken that vick would be part of such a horrible act. He lied, cheated and screwed the city of Atlanta. His downfall lead to us drafting a great young QB, a great head coach and a very good RB. We'll have a very good team for years to come while Vick will have this one good year and fade to average.

Posted by: Corey W. at September 29, 2010 5:07 PM

I would agree with this. My feeling is that you don't have to like Vick or root for him, or even be happy for his return to prominence. As a dog-lover myself, I abhore what he did and I don't think I can ever cheer for him again. But the man spent nearly two years in a federal prison. I think he's paid for his crimes.

We so often seem to expect either too much or too little from our sports stars. Either we give them a pass for conduct that would get 'lesser' people fired or even imprisoned, but when they do cross that nebulus line of morality, they never stop paying for their mistakes in the public eye. (Kobe Bryant and Ben Rothesburger seemed to have ducked their allegations of rape, while Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire will never live down the stigma of using steroids).

Posted by: Leftylad at September 29, 2010 5:12 PM

ANY dog should have a responsible owner regardless of their breed. Any breed of dog will become aggressive if raised ineptly. Pit bulls just get the worst rap of it because they are exceptionally meaner IF raised wrong.

This is my pit/mastiff, Samcro. Yes after the show and yes, I'm mostly using this debate to show off pictures of my doggy.

Posted by: PaulterA at September 29, 2010 5:50 PM

I don't care for football, and I also don't think 21 months is long enough punishment for anything that includes torture and maiming and execution of living things, be it people or animals. I am glad that Vick has a job and is a functional member of society. Be great if he were giving money to the ASPCA, that'd do more for his image than talking to children or the random dog-walking stranger. You know, it's not like he had one dog in the ring that got a little bit up during a fight - which would be bad enough. He had lots of dogs, there was plenty of violence done to them as a result, and some of them died from their injuries and he did not care about that, only the gambling and/or the money to be made. That is awful. Cruel. Inhumane. No offense to anyone here, but I don't know how that can be overlooked, I mean I honestly don't know how a measly 21 months can be considered enough. Maybe if he'd had to walk over hot coals every day or something. Or had to fight in a ring til he or the other guy died a bloody death. If he survived that, I'd never say a bad word about him. But you know what he's apologizing for? Getting caught. Fuck that motherfucker and his obviously successful public relations team.

Posted by: Chickaboom at September 29, 2010 6:40 PM

Vick got more time for the dog thing than other athletes/celebrities get for stuff like, you know, shooting/assaulting people.

Dude did his time, came back, earned his way back onto a pro team and is doing well. Good for him.

There's an interesting and depressing phenomenon where the entire internet will get up in arms about cute cuddly animal abuse (girl throwing puppies, cat in trash can) but will shrug their collective shoulders at all the horrible things happening to humans.

If people cared about other people, and hell, even the less cute and cuddly animals as much as they cared about cuddly things, the world would be a lot better place.

Posted by: Jason Harris at September 29, 2010 6:50 PM

@Jason Harris - I agree. No doubt what he did was horrible. I do not question it. But again, he did serve his time and does seem genuine in his contrition.

The fury people displayed over it was amazing - I wonder if anyone noticed that someone was running around with a gun at a University (again) yesterday? Whatever.

Posted by: jzhz at September 29, 2010 8:09 PM

i don't think it's a matter of caring about "cuddly animals" verses humans.

i will say that humans have hurt me, disappointed me, damaged me, and lied to me. the dogs have not.

besides, my bad ass pit bull isn't cuddly at all! well maybe, at bedtime, but she'll get pissed if i tell anyone... it will ruin her rep.

Posted by: glittergirl at September 29, 2010 8:13 PM

Great article and fascinating discussion.Many cogent points...Humans in general a pitiful lot in many respects...But Mother Nature no shining example of love and nurture herself.For whatever that is worth...Deliberate harm to any living creature is certainly no virtue...

Posted by: texasvolfan at September 29, 2010 8:23 PM

@Jason Harris - would it be better if I'd included child/wife abusers? They should serve more time too. MUCH more time than they usually serve.

Posted by: Chickaboom at September 29, 2010 8:54 PM

The truth about "pit bulls":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtqXudr7qAQ

Posted by: kt at September 29, 2010 9:20 PM

just to, you know, clarify my "i hate people" point:

i do get enraged by abuses against humans; not just abuses against animals. and by abuses against humans, i mean abuses against powerless folks: battered women, the dallas cowboys , refugees, people getting the crap bombed out of them just because the usa wants to show how big its dick is, etc.

@tracer- i don't know. i really don't want to think about it. it is the ultimate conflict for me. just mail me a goddamn hoagie already -- before i have a panic attack.

Posted by: stopthemadness aka Angry Black Lady at September 29, 2010 9:33 PM

I work at a vet and have seen and held plenty of dogs. For the record, in the 7 years I`ve worked there we`ve never had a human agressive pit bull come into our clinic. In fact, two of my favourite patients are Sweetums and Sky, the sweetest, friendliest pit bulls around. I`ve never been bitten by a pit bull at the clinic, but I have had numerous Chows, Chihuahuas, and one memorable Pomeranian try and take my arm off.

We do have some dog-aggressive pit bulls come in to our clinic but in every single case the pit bulls are rescue dogs that were abused terribly. Mind you, Sky was terribly and horribly abused (they cut off her ears, forced her to fight other dogs and bred her repeatedly) and she is gentle towards dogs and people.

And besides, I have a yorkie maltese cross that is horribly dog aggressive; she`ll go after any dog any size if they so much as look at me or my husband. *shrugs* My point is, all dogs have the potential to be human or dog aggressive, pit bulls unfortunately just happen to be pure muscle and once they do attack it`s extremely difficult to stop them while a yorkie maltese cross is lot easier to control.

Also - Vick is scum, perhaps he`s contrite scum, but he`s still scum. Anyone who abuses and tortures innocents (whether human or animal) will always be scum regardless of how sorry they are about their behaviour.

Posted by: Kelly at September 29, 2010 10:59 PM

Vick is a piece of shit (as are many other pro athletes). I don't care what kind of football player he is or how much time he served—he's still a turd of a human being.

Posted by: kimmyhula at September 29, 2010 11:50 PM

Chows and chihuahuas may be more likely to exhibit aggression towards humans, but the toll is nowhere near the level of a pit bull attack. I don't recall ever hearing about a deadly chow mauling.

Aggression is only a part of the equation. The other part is damage likely to be caused in the event of an attack. That's why many people are wary of pit bulls, and why they should be IMO.

Posted by: sansho1 at September 30, 2010 12:00 AM

Chows and chihuahuas may be more likely to exhibit aggression towards humans, but the toll is nowhere near the level of a pit bull attack. I don't recall ever hearing about a deadly chow mauling.

That's exactly my point. My Gracie may go after a rottweiler because it dared to try and sniff me but at seven pounds she's more likely to be killed then send the rottweiler crying for it's mama. Which is why it's my responsibility as her owner to teach her what is appropriate behaviour and what isn't it. Not only because it's bad manners for her to growl and attack other dogs, but because there's the real threat of her being killed.

And, like I mentioned before, pit bulls are seen as more of a threat because of their physical size and strength. And it's that very size and strength that make assholes like Michael Vick get a sick thrill from making them destroy each other.

For what it's worth, I've seen the damage a chow can do to another dog and if you had seen the giant holes and rips in that poor bulldog's head and throat, it would probably cause you to reconsider your thoughts on the deadly chow mauling. Chow and chow crosses are the only dogs that we immediately muzzle at our clinic for any type of extended exams or lab work. Regardless of whether their friendly or not, too many of our staff have chow scars to truly trust them unfortunately. I suspect that if pricks like Michael Vick knew just how unpredictable and aggressive some chows can be, they would have been abusing them in dog fights instead.

But if you want really vicious animals, let's talk about cats. Hee! One of the vet's at my clinic has horrible twisting scars up both of his arms from a sweet innocent kitty cat. I'd much rather hold a snarling, foaming dog then a slightly anxious cat. And this is from someone who has adores cats. But man, they are completely unpredictable and have a lot of pointy, pointy ends.

Posted by: Kelly at September 30, 2010 1:03 AM

I've always despised cruelty to animals, and I've never liked Vick at all. But he should be allowed to play again if he's served his legal consequences. I don't see how anyone could argue that he shouldn't. Besides, any sport is made better with a suitable villain.

Any success he's had on the field has been against teams with sub-par defenses, this has been a constant throughout his pro career. He absolutely tanks against a good/great defense. This is pretty much the standard for all running QB's. He's also dumb.

I also hate pit bulls. Un-neutered males should be considered no less than a lethal weapon. Honestly, I think the world would be a better place without them. But I certainly don't condone hurting them.

Posted by: JS at September 30, 2010 2:37 AM

Vick served his time but he shouldn't be allowed to play again. Neither should any player that's convicted of any crime causing harm to another. Human or animal. Plaxico Buress got the same amount of time as Vick and all he really did was accidentally shoot HIMSELF. So many athlete's have gotten slaps on the wrists for beating on women and that's ridiculous.

Regardless of the law's punishment inconsistencies or how you feel about whose done their time ,the NFL shouldn't allow violent offenders back in the league. Period.

Posted by: PaulterA at September 30, 2010 10:11 AM

I don't think there's a particular time we should assess him and either give him a pass or condemn him. People are obsessed with deciding that others, particularly public figures, are either bad or good, usually based on a handful of things they've done. The more Michael Vick does the right thing and, more importantly, doesn't do the wrong thing, the more this will be put behind him, and that's the way it should be. "He did his time," shouldn't buy him much--punishments are arbitrary things. Nobody commits a crime thinking that they're entering into a contract with a punishment that fits at the end. They commit the crime thinking they'll get away with it. Being punished doesn't complete the contract and it doesn't make you rehabilitated--your actions for the rest of your life make you rehabilitated.

I actually feel that stories like Vick's right now are important because they show that one mistake doesn't have to define you, either in how you're perceived or in how you really are. That's a really important message, especially for kids, ironically enough. One mistake doesn't mean you should resign yourself to a life of crime and punishment, and if you make an honest effort to change, people will respond. I love Sir Charles, but I think you could make a case that Vick is, ironically enough, being the role model that a lovable guy like him was too scared or lazy to be.

Posted by: Eep at September 30, 2010 11:05 AM

Not only do I want Vick to play well but I want him to go on and win the supe bowl. What hypocrits some of you are, I could care less about his dog fighting. Thousands upon thousands of people here in America got hunting for deer, wild hogs, and every other fucking animal you can think of but nobody opens up a mouth about that shit. I don’t spend my time worrying about some shitty ass dog anyway, I got bigger fish to fry.

Posted by: Pookie at September 30, 2010 11:05 AM

I don't really care that the Eagles hired Vick. I care that they owe my city $8 million in back taxes and are refusing to pay. This in the same year that the Free Library system and Park and Recs almost shut down.

Where's my $8 million, Jeff Lurie, you fucking dick?

Posted by: Estelle at September 30, 2010 12:15 PM

Go ahead. Forgive Vick. Give him his millions back. Feel warm and fuzzy for being that person who gives other anonymous people who could give a fuck less about you a "second chance."

This is yet another reason America is in an educational and industrial decline in comparison with other superpowers -- like oh say, Japan; we are always willing to give any psychopath a free pass if he can throw a ball, because damnit, we're AMERICAN and we love our sports.

And before you argue that this is largely fueled by our country's obsession with balls, ask yourself this: if it was your local elementary school's 2nd grade teacher convicted of the same crime, would you give him a second chance once he'd served his time?

Posted by: The Pink Hulk at September 30, 2010 1:47 PM

...I got bigger fish to fry.

Ain't go' be catchin' no fish on that smelly-ass troll bait.

Nice try, though.

Posted by: Rykker at September 30, 2010 1:48 PM

I really don't get into hero worship of athletes or celebrities. In my experience, actors and athletes tend to be narcissistic twats. Nor do I condemn strangers for doing something that while I may disagree with it, it doesn't affect me. What Vick did was illegal and he was convicted and jailed for it. Now people act like he shouldn't be allowed to even play ball. Because what he did was so much worse than what other players have done in the NFL and likely do EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm sure there is plenty that gets covered up, only the really bad shit hits the media.

Save your righteous indignation for things you can actually do something about. Vick is a great ball player. That talent has zero use in the real world. It's not like he's going to be getting his CPA any day now. Let him do what he is gifted enough to do. You may not think it's fair but who the fuck cares anyway. It's his life. It's his conscience. He served his time, leave the guy alone. If he bothers you that much, don't watch him play.

Posted by: TylerDFC at September 30, 2010 1:53 PM

Rykker I’m not trying anything. I really could care less about people’s hate for Vick. I hate dogs personally, and I’ve never did any harm to them. But some people here act like the guy killed someone. The guy trained dogs to fight, big fucking deal. And if a horse gets hurt during a race the motherfucker is put down right on the spot, that’s some gangsta shit if you asked me. Fuck Peta and fuck the dogs, not literally though, but more like there goes a dog walking down the street and I'm not paying you any attention dog because you're a dog for heaven's sake and I just don't like you.

Posted by: Pookie at September 30, 2010 2:46 PM

Excellent, excellent point with the teacher scenario, Pink Hulk.

Posted by: PaulterA at September 30, 2010 4:18 PM

if it was your local elementary school's 2nd grade teacher convicted of the same crime, would you give him a second chance once he'd served his time?

Since "the same crime" did not involve child abuse, and as long as he/she performed their job at a level heads-and-tails above most of the dreck that passes for a grade-school teacher since the time I was in school, yes, I would consider giving them a second chance.
Mitigating factor being the same; that I'd still have reservations as to whether they were truly reformed after serving their time.
But yes, I would consider it.

Posted by: Rykker at September 30, 2010 4:27 PM

The Eagles settled with city on that $8 million (less $5 million the city owed the team) last year. Read a fucking newspaper.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at September 30, 2010 10:10 PM

The dogs that didn't "perform" weren't just killed - they were tortured. The swimming pool had claw marks in the concrete where the dogs tried in vain to claw their way out while being tortured to death. They hung some of them up and attached electrodes to them to fry them. Who knows how long it took those poor dogs to die. Vick is a sociopath who is now spouting whatever it takes to get back in good graces and get that money back. I don't believe for a second he's sorry for what he did. Sorry for getting caught, yes but not sorry for doing it. I will never forgive him or the football league that took him back.

Posted by: Carrie at September 30, 2010 10:41 PM

C. Robert Dimitri, I like your style. Look forward to reading more.

Posted by: Mick J at October 1, 2010 5:25 AM

well said!

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Posted by: Ambrose Bitzer at October 29, 2010 5:05 PM

Well, I do believe in second chances. I don't condone what Chris Brown did however he has paid the sacrifice for his actions. Primarily, no one can ever forget what happened and that's worse than being punished.

Posted by: Samira Yoquelet at November 29, 2010 2:18 PM

Kobe Bryant is the most talented player in the league. He will win a third straight championship this year and will be known as the best player ever.

Posted by: Jazmin Dart at December 3, 2010 4:10 PM

Leaders must act extra rapidly today. The strain comes a lot faster. – Andy Grove

Posted by: Dominick Kortum at December 15, 2010 10:08 AM

Is it true that Kobe Bryant said he is willing to sell a ring to lebron...kind of an arogant thing to say, but when you are as good as he is i guess you are allowed. Lebron will be the greatest player in the game...after Kobe retires.

Posted by: Raul Millage at January 10, 2011 1:18 AM

Okay but you need to also take into account what made them do that in the first place

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