Do You Wear High Heels? Congratulations! You're a Brainless Self-Harmer, According to Tech CEO

By Courtney Enlow | Miscellaneous | October 23, 2013 | Comments ()


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Hi smart people! Unless you wear high heels, then hi, fucking morons!

That appears to be the view of one Jorge Cortell, a CEO of a healthcare startup. He took a clandestine photo of a woman’s shoes, something that, as a rule, only total creepmonsters do, and clicked “tweet” with some helpful words of wisdom. Take it away, Jorge.

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Think he’s sexist? HA. You’re the sexist for thinking that!

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He wouldn’t even lower himself to know a woman (or man!) so idiotic as to wear high heels.

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He’s continuing his stance without backpedal and making some tenuous correlations to drinking soda, I don’t know. Anyway, I’m wearing heels today, so don’t listen to me, I’m basically a jellyfish in the mental department. *smacks gum*



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Comments Are Welcome, Jerks Will Be Banned


  • Zirza

    *Gazes at shoes*

    *Gazes at MA degree*

    Ehn.

  • BlackRabbit

    I wonder if his wife doesn't wear heels because she doesn't want to do it, or because of his opinions. And I tried wear heels once (I'm a guy). Those things are very tricky-I'd say wearing them would make you smarter.

  • Berry

    Sometimes I wish I was a heel-wearing kind of person. They can just be so damn beautiful. But alas, I never learnt to walk in them, and besides, I'm already 5'11 and feel like an awkward giant most of the time anyway.

  • chanohack

    I am 5'8" and I know that feel. I've been this tall since I was twelve. My boyfriend is only THIS MUCH taller than me, and I don't like towering over him in heels. That, plus the fact that I don't wear them enough to keep up my "walking in heels" skills so I don't look like a tottering fool makes me usually leave them at home.

  • Berry

    "I've been this tall since I was twelve. "

    Me too! Sidenote: that was not a fun year for me.

    "My boyfriend is only THIS MUCH taller than me, and I don't like towering over him in heels."

    Same, except with husband.

    "That, plus the fact that I don't wear them enough to keep up my "walking in heels" skills so I don't look like a tottering fool makes me usually leave them at home."

    Samesies, again! We're like heel-twins. Or non-heel-twins. Or something.

  • chanohack

    Totally. Being a giant twelve-year-old is the WORST. It took me years to stop desperately wishing to blend in, God, just PLEASE BLEND IN. My sympathies, internet friend. :)

  • I can't do high heels, but I love my kitten heels. They make me feel tall and powerful. Plus the "clickety-clackity" sound they make when I walk makes me sound intimidating because you hear me coming. Or so I like to think. So in summation, STFU, dude.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    The Clickety Clackity is the BEST. It's one of my favorite sounds.

  • Gabs

    And that clickety is another reason I'm ok not being able to wear heels. I like it when people DON'T know I'm coming. My employees regularly comment on the fact that I appear without them ever realizing it, despite the fact that I carry a set of about 18 keys on me all the time.

    It makes them think I'm some kind of ninja, even when I wear bright pink. It's a ton of fun.

  • Hee! Good point.

  • Don'tStart

    First off, you can describe someone's actions as stupid, or brainless, without saying the person themselves is stupid or brainless. We have all done stupid things but are not all stupid. So this man is not necessarily calling women stupid per se. Second, some people (yes, women) do look a bit stupid in such crazy high heels because (a) it makes them walk funny and (b) like it or not, they do resemble Barbie or str*pper shoes. And that's not even getting into the argument about 'don't wear shoes you couldn't run away in'. Third, even if you don't agree with him, why the outrage over this man and his 'condescending' comments? Isn't he allowed an opinion?

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Yes, he's allowed an opinion. But by tweeting his opinion, he's inviting our opinions.
    Basically, if I see a man wearing an ugly shirt, or perhaps a tie that clashes with his jacket. I don't think "what a stupid man" or tweet a surreptitious photo of his ensemble when he's not looking with the express purpose of mocking him. I just think "huh, I wouldn't have put those together, maybe he's color blind" and move on with my day.

    And honey, you need to shoe shop more if you think the photo of the woman he posted features stripper shoes. They're not even bedazzled!

  • Sara_Tonin00

    ah, but you do seem to be implying that a woman deserves less respect if she is wearing "Barbie shoes."

  • Don'tStart

    Yes, her decision to wear those shoes would lessen my admiration for her, put it that way. "Respect" is a loaded term.

  • e jerry powell

    Dude, it's not like they're all clear acrylic stripper heels. Cut a girl some slack.

  • Julie Chase

    Heels look super pretty, but god damn they hurt my feet. I'll wear them for a few hours at a wedding and then change into sparkly flats to dance. I just admire other ladies' shoes from afar.

    Now, my decision to wear flats with no support while walking around NYC for over 7 hours with friends this past Saturday? THAT made me stupid.

  • Premie

    Wow, Pajiba is just an outrage click generator now? "(_________) person said (_____________). Can you believe it?? If you aren't outraged you aren't paying attention".
    Booooooo
    Who the fuck is this guy and why should something he said bother me? I like the reviews and trade news but this crap blows.

  • Pippa_Laughingstock

    Dude, it is hard enough being taken seriously as a woman, but it is much harder to be taken seriously as a short woman. I mean, I don't wear heels, but I am a short, petite woman who looks much younger than she is and I am a teacher (ESL). It is not a good combination. For all the years I taught abroad, I was routinely assigned to teach children despite my degree in linguistics, years of test prep experience, and summa cum laude status. I'm not ragging on teachers of children because there is a fuckton of education and experience necessary, but it's neither my specialty nor my interest. I'm finally teaching adults, allowing me to get into the high level grammar that is my wheelhouse. I have to start every one of my classes by stating my actual age, that I have well over fifteen years of experience, and am in a PhD program. Even with this, it takes me weeks and sometimes sessions to get students to recognize what I can do for them if only they would trust that I know what the fuck I am doing. I have never been assigned to the higher-paying individual CEO gigs despite my record of success with improving my student's English in short periods of time, because the perception is (and I have been told directly) that older men will not take me seriously. In contrast, my BA-holding, tall-guy, 0-fucks-giving coworker managed to become Academic Director before he was pushed out due to his incompetence. The constant severe bun, glasses that I don't need, and extreme professional dress does something, but what I wouldn't give for five inches without pain. We think we have rational brains but underneath it all we are just differently-sized dogs pissing on each other. Heels are like the only weapon in our dog-arsenal.

  • Melissa Doucette

    I am 5'1, and I don't wear heels. Ever. I look like Bambie on ice when I try, not to mention they hurt my feet like crazy. Also, I am 37 and still get ID'd buying liquor, so I have spent much of my career looking younger than I am.

    I say that if wearing heels makes you feel great, more power to you - seriously. We all have different weapons in are arsenal. But wearing heels is not a requirement for a short woman to fit in professionally.

    And in a general sense, I take umbrage at the suggestion (not by you or anyone here specifically) that heels are more professional than flats.

  • competitivenonfiction

    I agree that it's not necessarily more professional to wear heels, but I used to have a female boss who was almost a full foot taller than me. She was the best boss I ever had, but if we were at a networking event and she was wearing heels, there would literally be conversations going on over my head, so wearing heels could help me to be a part of the conversation. So, in that case I'd wear them.

  • competitivenonfiction

    And I'd walk around like a damn baby deer.

  • Pippa_Laughingstock

    I agree that it shouldn't be a requirement and honestly I'm not sure how much leverage it does give you, but in my experience I feel my height and youthliness have held me back (I am realizing now how assy it is to complain about youthliness, but there is that damned if you look good damned if you don't woman thing). Than being said, maybe it was my gender all along, because when I think of the less competent people that have gotten further faster than me, they are all men. Tall men, but men nonetheless.

  • emmelemm

    As a fellow small, no-longer-young but still-looks-young (if you don't look closely enough at my face) woman, I share your pain.

  • emmalita

    Yes! That's what I was coming down to say. I use to work with doctoral level professionals - mostly men. When I had to assert my authority I would wear 3" chunky heels and dark red lipstick to get and keep their attention. The executive director used to call those shoes my "warrior shoes."

  • chanohack

    I'll be extremely happy with the day that women aren't expected to wear stupid shoes just because they are cute. And I'm not just talking about high heels, either-- I went to Europe this summer and we were walking a lot and I pretty much wore my running shoes all the time and MY feet were killing me. And SO many other girls and women around me were wearing the most absurd shoes! Heels, flip-flops with no padding or arch support, gladiator sandals freaking encrusted with fake jewels-- just, what the hell? Their feet MUST have been dying, but because we're supposed to look cute all the time (ESPECIALLY IN VENICE OMG) they all decided to suffer through. Fuck that. Fuck this stupid culture for setting that expectation.

    Don't get me wrong-- if any of you want to wear shoes that aren't that functional because you like how they look? Go for it, and may they make you very happy. Also, feel free to lay in the sun and get a tan. What you'll risk for beauty is your own goddamn business and no one should tell you otherwise. But seriously, it would be so, SO great if it wasn't the standard, and we could go to work or clubs or Venice in whatever shoes we want.

    I could rant about this shit forever but I'm just gonna shut it now.

  • Berry

    When we went to New York a few years ago, I experienced momentary panic thinking that I must buy myself some cute heels, because "THAT'S WHAT YOU WEAR IN NEW YORK, OMG." Fortunately, sanity won, and I chose running shoes and sensible sandals instead. And my feet still killed me dead.

  • TherecanbeonlyoneAdmin

    Ladies, to those of you who wear heels, I would like to thank you for your sacrifice. It is much appreciated.

  • Andrew

    I don't like high heels, but I don't think that women who wear them are dumb. I think that the culture that has high heels in it is dumb.

    Heels, especially the ones like in the header picture above, really remind me of Chinese foot-binding. And we don't find that acceptable, do we?

  • Sara_Tonin00

    heels are optional. Chinese foot-binding was imposed on children.

  • Andrew

    But a culture which enjoys seeing women's feet squished up like that still exists.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Well, heels were originally for men (those that rode horses). Women just made them prettier.

  • Andrew

    Even if men riding houses were wearing heels like in the header picture (which I highly doubt) that says nothing about how high heels are used today.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Not like the header picture, no, because we didn't have the tech to make those beauties. Still, they're a style choice and like many style choices they aren't always healthy. It's not foot binding. My father didn't cram my foot into a heel when I was a baby so that I'd look dainty.

    I mean, if we're getting down to what's unnecessary: dresses, bras, mini skirts, etc aren't functional clothing. But they're fun and we get to wear them if we want.

    As for the riding boots for men:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/maga...

  • Gabs

    I can't wear heels, because I'm 27 years old but with the hip of a woman at least twice my age. In my normal life, I wouldn't opt for them even if I could, but I'm sometimes a bit envious when I go out, because some women can really rock their heels, and also my pants are sometimes a bit long and I suspect heels could help that. I do happen to be pretty damn intelligent, but that has nothing to do with my shoe choices.

  • John W

    Geez. Is this "let's shit on women" month? Is this the right-winger's answer to Breast Cancer awareness month?

  • stella

    Those shoes in the header pic are really cute. Oh yeah, and fuck you dude.

  • ZombieMrsSmith

    Except no woman with any sense would wear pantyhose with open-toed shoes. Really, I know hardly any women that wear pantyhose ever any more.

    This guy is an a**hole, and I speak as a woman who works in running shoes every day (I teach group fitness classes) but still buys high heels because they are so freakin' awesome.

    Do you think he will enlighten us on his views on abortion and birth control next?

  • Uriah_Creep

    Only if he's a Republican.

  • JayWantsACat

    "My wife does not wear heels. Neither do most women in my circle."
    I'm sure that's completely true. /sarcasm Probably only do so when this pompous, condescending, judgemental ass is around because who wants to deal with that BS?

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    I am so confused by his statement. I mean, does he only know one woman? I'll accept that. But if he knows more than 5 women (and hell, maybe a few men), I'm going to have to call bullshit on his assertion that he doesn't associate with people who wear high heel shoes.

  • JayWantsACat

    He does say 'most' women in his circle don't wear heels. So, presumably he and the non-heel wearers get together to talk behind their backs. Also known as 'intellectual companion brainstorming and lifehacking'.

    Regardless, he's less intellectual and more concern troll.

  • DarthCorleone

    Brainless? I just marvel at how the heeled ladies walk around in those things. I couldn't do it.

  • chanohack

    It takes practice. It's not like riding a bike. :(

  • Mrs. Julien

    It's like jello on springs!

  • emmelemm

    Only if you cut one heel shorter than the other!

  • Sars

    and who died and made him the arbiter of taste and women's health. vomit.

  • Sars

    I'm tempted to reveal my profession + the number of languages I speak to knock this fool down. However, his comment isn't offensive because it is simply untrue, it is offensive because he intended to slyly put down an entire population of people (females of a certain "type") and it backfired on him and now he is back peddling and calling it a "health issue". This fucker meant how can women who care about the appearance be at a business event, because we all know that pretty girls are dumb. Ugh. Keep thinking that buddy, and when all those women surpass you, running in their high heels you can claim that they used their looks to get by.

    The BIGGEST mistake anyone has ever made in dealing with me, was underestimating me based on my looks and what I'm wearing. Just because you don't have the smarts and the looks, does not mean others don't as well.

    fuck off.

  • Out of curiosity, can you actually run in high heels? I wouldn't think you could but what I know about women's shoes could be written on a matchbook with room left over for 'War and Peace.'

  • Even Stevens

    Emma Stone did a pretty impressive high heel run in Easy A

  • Sars

    you can...very badly My boyfriend refferres to it as "Penguin Prance" Also being drunk helps :D

  • ellie

    You should subject yourself to the awful movie that is In Time, Amanda Seyfried sprints in the highest of heels. And that was the most exciting part of the movie.

  • I tried watching 'In Time' and I lasted about thirty minutes. I had to turn it off because it was making me roll my eyes to the point where I was worried they'd get stuck. Preachy 'message movies' can bite my shiny metal ass.

  • DominaNefret

    People can wear whatever shoes they want, but high-heels ARE bad for you. He is correct. You are literally self harming when you wear high heels.
    It causes your Achilles' tendon to contract and shorten and the muscles in your calves get all messed up. Can also have a negative impact on your hips, knees, and even shoulders. Wearing high heels is not good for you.
    Choose to wear them all you want, but don't try to claim they aren't bad for you.

    Love, your friendly neighborhood massage therapist who has to try to fix the legs of women who wear heels all of the time.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    See, but this is a blanket statement. There are all different kinds of calf muscles and feet shape. And varying degrees of elevation are helpful for the foot. No, not the shoes in the pic, but all heels are not inherently evil.

    For me, the flip flop can be just as much a foot killer.

  • Flip-flops are way worse than high heels, at least as far as aesthetics go. They're worse than Crocs, even.

  • jennp421

    I don't think anyone is trying to claim they aren't bad. However, that doesn't make his attitude any less condescending.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    I love crazy heels. In fact, I spent more time looking for my glitter blue heels for my wedding than I did for my dress. No, they're not great for your feet/knees, but that's why I only bust them out for special occasions/events.
    Perhaps that makes me a stupid person. But I like being super tall and I like the style statement I'm making.
    And since my shoes are most certainly not hurting him and not otherwise effecting his day, I'd like to respectfully ask him to shut the fuck up and let me make decisions about my body.

  • The way I see it, I did way more damage to my feel in 15 years of ballet than I possibly can wearing heels, so dammit, I'm gonna pretty these things up. Also, GLITTER!

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Exactly. I've broken one or more toes several times throughout life, fractured a knee cap and fractured my ankle. I did all that while playing various sports. Maybe sneakers are stupid?
    I've never injured myself in heels, not even a trip, so glitter and no broken toes? I think that's a win.

  • emmalita

    I think we need a picture of the glittery blue heels.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Sadly, the blue shoes died two weeks before the wedding (we got a puppy who has AMAZING taste in fashion). But my husband bought me "the silliest shoes he could find" as a replacement (and to ensure that I wouldn't turn the puppy into a furry pair of booties) and they were pretty perfect too.

  • llp

    Those are magic shoes!

  • Jay Pausner

    What about ties. Men wear them. I see no practical purpose to wearing them. Seems they could be used as a choking hazard if someone wanted to. I see in his photo he doesn't wear a tie, but he may know men that do. What does that mean?

  • chanohack

    The problem with this is that ties MAY be a choking hazard in freaky circumstances, and high heels are scientifically proven to fuck up one's body.

  • Erin

    Occasional heel wearing hasn't been proven to fuck up anything.

  • nosio

    You know what? Call me crazy, but as soon as I started pulling on this pair of flat leather booties I'm wearing, I dunno, I just FELT my IQ tick up a few points.

  • L.O.V.E.

    If his point had been that 4 inch heels are not appropriate in a conservative business setting (she seems to be in jeans and sans hosiery) I would be in agreement, but this general impugning of high heels is unacceptable.

    Anyone who tries to convince my wife not to wear the 4.5 inch spiked McQueens I bought her to wear to Vegas for our Anniversary trip will get stabbed right in the ear with them -- and by her, not me.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    label whore. ;)

    And actually, my first thought on the pic was "wearing jeans?!" not anything about the shoes.

    To some extent, wearing sky high heels is a power symbol, at least in NYC - it indicates you are getting driven places.

  • Sars

    I am imagining those shoes and hating your wife for having those fabulosities on her feet. yum yum.

  • Guest

    He defended his comment by tweeting "not sexist. Logical. Perhaps a man was wearing those. Would be equally absurd. High heels are STUPID, bad for your health." and "Self-harm means not too smart in my world"

  • Mrs. Julien

    Parsnips are the devil's fingers and one must take this association into consideration when reading your comment; however, I agree with what you included above, except for the aforementioned unfortunate parsnips connection.

  • Martin Holterman

    It's a dumb thing to say, but how is it sexist?

  • It makes a generalization about women who wear high heels that they are not smart.

  • Martin Holterman

    Yes, but not a generalisation about women qua women. Presumably he'd say the same thing about men in high heels.

  • That would be an ace argument if men typically wore high heels. If someone said "everyone eho wears bras is a moron" you know they're not talking about men.

  • chanohack

    This tweeter and anyone who'd say that about bras are assholes. HOWEVER, the fact that women have to make their boobs a particular shape in order to be culturally acceptable also sucks. I get that bras serve a needed function, but they ALSO give us those nice high, round boobies that almost no women have naturally, but almost no women will leave home without because it grosses people out to see the way we're actually shaped. That's bullshit.

    SEE how freaking ranty I am? Must shut up now.

  • Martin Holterman

    Given how many women don't wear heels, I don't think that analogy works.

  • Erin

    Totally dude, since obviously heel-wearing could go both ways. And me saying that people who wear ties are idiots is clearly not meant to imply anything about men.

  • Cree83

    I've noticed that it's pretty common to dismiss traditionally "girly" things as stupid. I hear both men and women doing it. People want to seem more down to earth and less vapid, so they say stuff like: "I prefer women who don't wear makeup!" I mean, that's fine, I'm a bit of a tomboy myself, but there's nothing wrong with enjoying make up, or fashion, or the color pink. Nobody should have to shy away from femininity just to seem more professional/intelligent/practical, etc.

  • Martin Holterman

    To be fair, sometimes "girly" amounts to pretending to be dumber/more helpless than you really are, just to make men feel better about themselves. Even high heels have as a - presumably unintended - side effect that they make women walk more slowly and less sure on their feet, i.e. more helpless.

  • Cree83

    I would agree that some girls and women act dumb and helpless to appear more attractive, but that doesn't mean that acting dumb and helpless is the same as acting "girly."

    Guys put on dumb acts to try to attract women as well - like wearing their hair in a comb over when they're going bald. But I wouldn't call comb overs "manly" any more than I would call acting helpless "girly." They're just stupid things people do.

    And the right heels don't necessarily put the wearer at a disadvantage. For proof, watch the X-Files and look at Scully run.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    true. who ever complains about how impractical/unnecessary a tie is?

  • Guest

    Yeah, it sucks that there are certain work environments where you pretty much have to look made up and polished in heels in order to fit in with the corporate culture. I don't agree with that either.

    But. I'm just referring to a certain culture within the internet where a parent will write something like: Thank God, my daughter is so cool because she likes legos instead of Barbies!" I feel like I see that a lot. I mean, no matter what sex you are, you should be able to like Barbies if that's your thing. Saying legos are better strikes me as kind of sexist - like Barbies are less cool because they are a girly thing.

  • Cree83

    This reply above was meant to go below, so I deleted it and rewrote it! That's why it appears here as a guest.

  • chanohack

    No one should have to embrace it to be seen as more professional/intelligent/practical, etc, either.

  • Cree83

    Yeah, that sucks too. I feel like it's just two sides of the sexism coin.

    On one side, women are expected to be made up and wearing high heels in order to fit in with certain cultural expectations.

    But there's this other trend I've seen in certain internet circles, where parents are like "Thank God, my daughter's so cool because she plays with legos instead of Barbies." No matter what sex you are, you should be able to play with Barbies if that's your thing. Seems kind of sexist that Barbies are automatically seen as less cool, just because they're girly.

  • Naye

    I get that parents thing. I actually tried to keep my daughter away from dolls, and give her a variety of "girls" and "boys" toys to play with. End result: At 3 her favorite color is pink, and she demands to wear a dress almost every day, and her favorite shoes are her sparkly shoes, and her favorite doll is some half naked Strawberry Shortcake she found at the thrift store. And I think she's super cool because she made those choices all on her own

  • Anne Cordelia

    I just wonder, what did he think he was adding to the conversation by tweeting these pictueres and comments? I mean, was he genuinely thinking that nobody in the world, ever before, had thought of the fact that maybe sometimes heels aren't the most practical choice? Gee, this guy is brilllllliant! Maybe he's wearing heels...

  • I find heels to be torture, but to each their own. I love my feet/knees too much.

  • BWeaves

    I think heels can look nice, or they can look stupid. It really depends on the shoe. I go for comfort now, and I can find low heeled comfortable dressy shoes.

    I used to work for a company where the owner wanted everyone to dress business formal, despite the fact that we were computer programmers and nobody ever saw us. Still, the men wore suits and ties, and the women wore suits and heels.

    After a while I started bringing a pair of Birkenstocks to wear around the office. I'd walk in and out the front door in heels, but around the office I'd be in Birks unless upper management came by, and then I'd just change shoes under my desk. Easy as both pumps and Birks slip on and off. One co-irker asked me, "Oh, are you allowed to wear those?" Hey, try and stop me.

    I personally think the super high heels and the platform soles look really stupid, and since they are so hard to walk in, I don't get the appeal. Give me a kitten heel, anytime.

  • Hazel Dean

    Wow, really? Every office I've worked in that required business formal were perfectly content for me to wear dress flats or oxfords with my suits, and I'm a woman. A heel requirement seems so bizarre to me!

  • BWeaves

    OH, that wasn't the only weird thing about this office. We were required to keep clean desks at all times. If you walked away from your desk, there could be nothing on it but a monitor and keyboard. We were computer programers back before laptops and mice. We needed to go through output, because the online editors were clumsy. We also had no drawers to store things like pens. Just an overhead bin. And we were not allow drinks or food at our desks. The owner was a severe neat freak.

    It's not so much that he required heels, as shoes appropriate for a formal business suit, and ballet flats didn't quite cut it.

  • Mrs. Julien

    They're your feet you can wear whatever you want. That said, I will be happy when the extreme high heel/platform trend is over. That broken foot and two sprained ankles this past spring have been a wonderful excuse to eschew high heels.

  • oilybohunk7

    I like heels, I always have, but those damned platformed skyskrapers are horrific. I refuse.

  • Paige Record-Needlescratch

    You don't need an excuse to eschew high heels, you can wear whatever shoes you want to wear or eschew any shoes you want to eschew regardless of what trend is currently happening. As you say in your first sentence, they're your feet.

  • Mrs. Julien

    While true, in my business setting (major corporation) high heels are considered more formal.

  • Sars

    You should try buying shoes from asos.com I'm a lawyer and a vegan so finding affordable comfortable high heels is an issue. Asos has fabric shoes which are super comfy and inexpensive (around 50-100) and very stylish. buy the asos brand.

  • Mrs. Julien

    Thanks, Sars!

    I haven't said that since my wedding in the summer of 2003 when everyone got a great hotel rate because of SARS in Toronto.
    Subject: Re: New comment posted on Do You Wear High Heels? Congratulations! You're a Brainless Self-Harmer, According to Tech CEO

  • Sars

    Oh yes I remember the summer of Sars, when all the Asian business were suddenly abandoned and China town became a ghost town... also my Bf's cousin got Sars because she was a nurse at the time... she survived.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    You can't get away with kitten heels?

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