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Children Are The Future Unless We Stop Them Now

By | Posted Under Miscellaneous | Comments (97)



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It seems that many Pajibans are reticent, and in some cases downright opposed, to reproducing. As the father of the single most perfect child in all the known universe, let me assure you that your opposition is well-founded.

First, obviously, your child will be grossly inferior to mine. While my kid is great, your booger-and-germ-encrusted windowlicker is little more than a vector for disease. And, understand, EVERY PARENT FEELS THIS WAY.

Parents are fucking insufferable and new parents are even worse. I get it and, much as I hope this was not the case, I was probably like that. A new baby simply dominates your entire life to the point of madness and even though new parents are desperate for contact with anyone who can wipe his own ass, they have nothing interesting to talk about. All they’ve been doing is catering to the 12 lb. tyrant they willingly and stupidly brought home.

And babies are boring. I’ve been rolling over for decades and nobody gives a shit.

This, however, is the very reason the well-meaning but oafish hector the childfree about parenthood. Not only do they need someone to talk to, but like I said yesterday, parents hate you. And not in a playful, “Oh, that Tracer. He’s such a card” kind of way. I mean real, actual hate. Push-you-into-traffic, set-your-home-on-fire hate.

Some people will tell you that they were never so happy and fulfilled before having kids and parenthood has given their life meaning and blah, blah, blah. Those people are dirty fucking liars. They’re wretched and they’re trying to drag you down into Hell with them.

Because, simply, parenthood is a miserable, miserable slog. It’s like buying an expensive house that you’ve never seen and can’t move into for 20 years. Sure, the house might have vaulted ceilings and your kid might be the valedictorian at Harvard, but you could also discover termites and she could end up turning tricks behind a bus station.

And that mystery? That. Is. AWFUL. Sure, you can increase the chances of Harvard and reduce the risk that you’ll be on a first name basis with the local vice squad, but really, you’re just guessing. Maybe an early bedtime will give your kid discipline and make feel both well-rested and safe with your clear rules. Or maybe he’ll hate you for controlling him and will one day beat you to death with a rake. You can’t know.

Plus, people without kids can buy convertibles. They can travel to exotic locales and actually enjoy the experience. They have sex in the living room. They don’t have to buy two officially licensed Mjolnirs for $60 apiece because the kid won’t stop playing with yours.

Quite simply, you get to be an adult, all day, every day. No homework. No silly teenage bullshit. No unspeakable children’s television. (Seriously, Tru Jackson, VP, will make you dig out a puppy’s eyes and piss on its brain.)

But, I like you. You’re not like the others. You’re special and so well-spoken. So I’m gonna help you out. I’m going to hip you to the things I used to do before my wife went and got herself knocked up.

Now, you need to remember that I’m a terrible person with no sense of shame and a cruel sense of humor so all of these won’t work for everyone. But delivered with the right deadpan or demented smile and I promise you’ll put a quick, painful stop to the bullshit. Please adjust for gender preference.

Oaf: Say, Pajiban. When are you going to have kids? Oaf Jr. needs a playmate, you know.


  • Pajiban: We tried … (stare into distance, let lip quiver)

  • Pajiban: I will. Just as soon as your wife’s divorce comes through. (uncomfortably big smile)

  • Pajiban: I’ve got two. Thanks for raising them for me.

  • Pajiban: Well, I know your jizz works. How about you give it to my wife? Really pour the pork to her. I want to hear your balls on her ass. And when you’re done, you can do me next.

  • Pajiban: Smart thinking! Clear some space of the floor. I’m gonna fuck the red out of my wife’s hair right here. Can you squeeze my nuts when I come? I wanna make sure I give her a really big load.

  • Pajiban: Trust me. We’ve had several children, if ya’ know what I mean (wink, nudge).

Not only will people stop asking you stupid questions, they’ll stop inviting you to their boring parties. Which is great. Your friends suck. Look how they pressure you into having kids.

Jason Harris absolutely does not want to see pictures of your child.









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Comments

My kid just wiped her nose on my husbands cheek. Miserable slog indeed.

Posted by: TWoP_Fan at April 5, 2011 8:08 PM

Or maybe he’ll hate you for controlling him and will one day beat you to death with a rake.

I would actually be afraid of that (if I had a kid). What if it hates me?? What if I somehow warp its mind and send it into sociopathy? AUUUUUUUGH..!!1!!

I'll stick with the dog, thanks. Plus, no college fund!

Posted by: MM at April 5, 2011 8:19 PM

Clean your room, they said.
Eat your vegtables, they said.
Do your homework, they said.

Don't kill me, they said .

Posted by: dorquemada at April 5, 2011 8:23 PM

God damn it, MM, you have to send your dog to a good school. What will the other upper-class doggies say?

Posted by: John G. at April 5, 2011 8:34 PM

Remember Pajibans: Buttsex is natures contraception.

Posted by: admin at April 5, 2011 8:38 PM

Thank you! I was having the worst day ever and then I read this! I have one kid and she of course is the most perfect child ever (no really she is!) but we always get "when are you having another?" We are not, she was perfect lets not mess that up. Plus she is only 9 so we'll see how those teenage years go. I admit I have been encouraging my best friend to have a kid soon, because damn it it's been 9 years of her getting to do whatever she wants!
BTW "Tru Jackson VP" totally makes me want to dig out puppy eyes and piss in their brains, as does "Good Luck Charlie" for my husband that would be "Shake it up".

Posted by: DebMoore at April 5, 2011 8:41 PM

Heeee. I seriously wonder about the sanity of those "ohhh, motherhood is SO fulfilling. I just love every moment of being a mom!" people.

Personally, I suspect that those people are either heavily medicated or lyinng through their teeth. OR, they really don't want to go back to work and they hope that if they keep gushing about the bayyybeee, their husbands/partners will sigh and support their asses for the next 18 years.

Anyhoo, I agree with all of it. Except the part where your kid is the best because, ummm, have you SEEN my little seakitten and seacannibal? Let's just agree that it's a tie and I'll put this here rake down.

Posted by: SeaKat at April 5, 2011 8:45 PM

And as much of a slog the early years are, as much hard work as you put in during those years, as much as you might be led to think "YEAH! I HAVE A TEN YEAR OLD WHO IS AWESOME!" little do you know. LITTLE DO YOU KNOW you will someday have a....thing that appears to have such a traumatic head injury that every day is Groundhog day. A thing that went from craving and loving your company to liking your company to acting like you ruined their whole fucking day by EXISTING IN THE SAME ROOM.

As much as you think you did a good job during those early years, you still have to go through the special hell we all have to go through in which they HATE you. People tell you it will get better, they will come out on the other side just fine, but that's the mystery part Jason talked about up there. WHO KNOWS? WHO BLOODY KNOWS? You might have raised someone who is going to be an awfully pleasant adult, OR YOU MIGHT HAVE RAISED A TOTAL JERK! At this stage, there's no way of telling, because the sweet kid you once knew IS DEAD.

And when you only have one, that means you can't even comfort yourself with the idea that, even if this one is screwed up (like the first pancake on the griddle), maybe at least ONE of the others will be the one you can talk about to your friends in the retirement home. But no, if you have one, that's IT. THAT'S YOUR ONE SHOT.

You sometimes wish you could be that parent that's all "hey, whatever, junior college, med school, no school, it's all good, they can just do whatever!" But you can't! BECAUSE YOU'VE INVESTED ALL THIS TIME AND WORK AND ENERGY AND IF SHE DOESN'T BRING UP HER GRADES, SHE'LL NEVER GET IN TO

You know what? I need to stop. Just think carefully before saying something like this:

"I know we're out of them, but I don't want to go to the drugstore NOW. It's a total storm out there! Flash floods! Just this once, nothing will happen!" ---Mr. Snuggiepants, early 1994*


(*True story. I really do love her and am very happy we had her, I just don't necessarily LIKE her right now. And the feeling is mutual.)

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 8:46 PM

I'm sorry for that rant. I'm REALLY a sane person. I've just been driven temporarily insane.

But I AM glad I no longer have to watch kid TV. Ug. Kill me with that shit.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 8:48 PM

Man I've tried the "Life threatening health condition, can't have kids" tack. Doesn't work. Seriously. I have at least five female relatives who insist on a regular basis that I just haven't found a way. One even had the gall to tell me that I souls be willing to die to bring a child into this world. Because that's what love is, is sacrifice.

To which I replied in fine Ceelo Green fashion.

Seriously has no one ever seen Steel Magnolias? Fuck.

Posted by: Meh at April 5, 2011 8:50 PM

My ex and his beautiful wife just had a new baby (thank you Facebook for keeping me aware of this important information) and my petty, petty heart is overjoyed at the thought of their seemingly perfect life taken over by this baby. He now loves something more than the woman he left me for. Their exhausted eyes and strained smiles make my day! I suddenly value my single, childfree freedom!

Hmm...no wonder I'm single. I'm an awful person. Well, at least I'm not inflicting it on a poor defenseless baby.

Posted by: debbye at April 5, 2011 8:53 PM

Meh As someone who got ENDLESS inquisitions about having a SECOND child when mine was young, I'm a big fan of the "NONE OF YOUR GOTDAMNED BUSINESS, BITCH" response.

I got VERY sick of hearing it. And really? It IS none of anyone else's business.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 8:54 PM

When people ask me, I just say, "Never." If they keep it up, I may outline my many, many reasons for not having a kid; but the biggest one is, I don't want any. I just don't. The End.

I do like "none of your business" as a backup, though.

(I think most of them may have finally given up! Except for this one girl I had in a class who I run into on campus every now and again who will continue to ask me for as long as both of us go to that school. Luckily, I don't run into her often.)

Posted by: Anna von Beav at April 5, 2011 9:07 PM

I plan to get myself neutered! (essure) :D explaining it to people will put a stop to that line of questioning straight away!

Posted by: Bonnye at April 5, 2011 9:15 PM

Seriously, WHY would people want you to have a kid when you don't WANT a kid? I mean, it's not like a bracelet or even a car that you can just trade out or sell or something. Believe me, you CAN'T sell kids, there are laws against it.

AVB That's one nice thing about getting older--some issues just stop being issues. Around the time Only was about 9 or 10, people totally stopped asking about a second one. Nowadays I get the occasional "oh is she your ONLY ONE?" and this one lady, when I said yes, actually tilted her head to the side, made a super sad face and said "AWWWWWWW!" So I really did this: I asked her how many kids she has and she smiled and said "FOUR!" I tilted my head to the side, made the same super sad, lower lip sticking out face and said "AWWWWWWW!" I started to add "DAMN, THAT'S A LOT!" but figured she got my point.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 9:22 PM

I love everything about this post! I do have one kid, and he is pretty awesome. But he just turned 10 and I live in fear of the day he turns into a teenage monster. Maybe MINE will be the exception. . . right?? No probably not.

Well I decided after my divorce at 29 not to have any more. I will have the freedom in my forties that I didn't have in my twenties. People didn't believe me, until I had my tubes removed. It feels amazing to know that I am DONE with babies. The baby phase was pure hell.

Posted by: Alli at April 5, 2011 9:27 PM

having children sucks. it totally interferes with my narcissism. it cancels out my nihilism(I can't simultaneously be nihilistic and invest so much in the future). it jolts me out of the decades of neverending childhood I have been enjoying for myself, never to return until senility. it completely destroys my ability to make every question revolve around what fulfills me. virtually none of childrearing is about my gratification. and the little buggers end up connecting me to community and get me thinking about how society unfolds and my role in it and the future, and I am an all about me in the now kinda guy so, yeah, having kids sucks.

Posted by: idleprimate at April 5, 2011 9:28 PM

Y'all are killing me.

Snuggie, my dear, I have been terrified of what's coming for a very long time. Told the mister to lock me up when the little ones go teen - he's the calm, rational one.

Posted by: Cindy at April 5, 2011 9:32 PM

Alli NOPE! YOURS WILL NOT BE THE EXCEPTION, MY FRIEND!

In fact, all of your CHILD'S friends will appear to be perfectly pleasant and rational and polite around you and other adults (who aren't their parents!), so you'll start thinking OTHER PEOPLE HAVE GOOD TEENAGERS, but no! They do it to drive you insane! They're only nice around you because you aren't their parent. If you ask their parents, they'll tell ya: same Satan's ass-spawn that your kid is being at home. DON'T BE FOOLED.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 9:35 PM

My main objection is when I'm talking to a parent about something and I disagree with her about something (let's say when you should actually let your child grow up and stop hovering, like perhaps when the kid is about 19 or so) and she tells me "you wouldn't understand because you're not a mom". I would never tell her "you wouldn't understand because you're a breeder". What makes parents think they can be so rude?

Posted by: PaddyDog at April 5, 2011 9:40 PM

God damn it, MM, you have to send your dog to a good school.

Ah hah hah HAHAHA. Yeah, my dog went to a class - couldn't have been more than $300? - I don't remember. Now he has a "Canine Good Citizen" certificate.

Done and DONE.

Posted by: MM at April 5, 2011 9:45 PM

I'm at that magical place in life where you convince yourself that you'll be great parents, it's totally worthwhile and your kid won't be like those kids. It's like I can see the train coming and I think jumping on will be more fun than getting out of the way.

To the people who like to ask when we're going to have a baby: Do you really want to know that I'm having unprotected sex? If I didn't confide in you about my sex life before, why would I now? Thanks for the pressure. Really helpful.

Posted by: Tits McGee at April 5, 2011 9:48 PM

Paddy, it's an emotional minefield. Even when you DO have kids, if you have one kid and disagree with another parent, they say you can't understand because you "only have one."

If you have a bunch of kids and they have one, well, "the dynamics are different." If you have a kid younger than theirs, you'll understand when YOUR kid is this age. And so on and so on.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 9:50 PM

Never ever EVER. And I've written a note to my next life as well.

Posted by: godzilla_foil at April 5, 2011 9:55 PM

Nope, no kids here. I value my freedom, for one thing. And I just make enough to care for myself and my 2 dogs and 1 cat. AND, I have 200 'kids' at work every year. I care for them and plan for them 10-12 hours a day from May through September; that's plenty of parenting for me.

And then when my kids there go and get themselves knocked up, and I damn well know they can't afford a cat, much less a kid... I sigh and feel distressed. Just like their real moms.

And when my dog is being an ass, I can yell at him to go outside and stay there. I think there are laws against that with babies.

Posted by: Gabs at April 5, 2011 9:58 PM

I sometimes ask people if they're going to have another kid because I don't have anything to contribute to the never-ending information barf about their current children. People think the child-free are selfish? People with kids are the most selfish of them all, because they're just trying to fucking survive.

Posted by: jzhz at April 5, 2011 10:00 PM

Given that I constantly question the decision to propel new lives towards an uncertain future (read: The Monkey-Cyborg Apocalypse), it seems wrong to suggest anyone else do the same. Why encourage one more potential Humungus for my future ferals to compete with?

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at April 5, 2011 10:01 PM

jzhz: whut?

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 10:07 PM

Those of you with one child, lemme tell you - having a second child means you now actually have three critters. You have each individual child, then you have the...creature that they are together. It's starting to even out now, but my kids were at each others' throats for YEARS when they were little. They can be angels when apart, but hellions when together. My son actually tried to suffocate his little sister once - he put his hand over her nose and mouth when she was a baby "to see what would happen." (He was three, not a serial killer in training. As far as I know.) *That* wasn't in the parenting books.

And the scheduling - with the first, the schedule is sacred. You work around the naps, the feedings, the playdates. Child #2 gets to nap in the car while you drive Child #1 to soccer practice, and has to eat whatever you can toss her way while en route. "Suck it up, buttercup" should've been my secondborn's first words, because she heard it often enough.

My sister-in-law is getting ready to have her second. She and her husband spoil the everlovin' shit out of their first, catering to her every whim. I just smile and smile at her, because she (and her firstborn) have no idea what's coming.

Uh, I swear I adore both of my kiddos. But nothing could prepare me for the entity they are as a unit.

Posted by: Kati at April 5, 2011 10:14 PM

And my above comment wasn't an entry into the "I've got it worse" Olympics. It was a complete understanding of why folks stop with one kid. I wouldn't have survived the transition to two children without lots of family around to step in when things got dicey.

Posted by: Kati at April 5, 2011 10:22 PM

I have the horror that is a 16 year old. She wrote us a note last Saturday-
"Mom and Dad, went to aunt's house-love you...(sometimes!)"

Yeah, don't ever need more than one. The prophecies never says Antichrists.


Posted by: mrcreosote at April 5, 2011 10:26 PM

Kati - that reminds me of a friend of mine who waited patiently until her parents were asleep, crept into the nursery, climbed into her little brother's crib and peed all over him in his sleep. She was 3 and given the chance, I think she'd do it all over again.

Posted by: Tits McGee at April 5, 2011 10:29 PM

Oh Kati, I'll freely admit I avoided a lot of shit by stopping at one. We've never dealt with fighting, we've never dealt with tattling or "THAT'S NOT FAIR!" When something is broken, we pretty much know who did it. Schedules were a breeze. All parental resources went to just one kid. Not only that, but we had her fairly young (barely 24 and 26), so at 42, I'll have an empty nest. HELL YEAH!!!

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 10:32 PM

That's a lot words to make the case for death. Kid. Parent. Other parent. Just death.

Posted by: Tao at April 5, 2011 10:51 PM

I'm actually quite proud of my parents. I'm the eldest of FOUR kids (my mother wanted six, why, I will never understand) and people still try to give her parenting advice, even though the youngest is 15. Gladly, she doesn't force advice onto other people. Except with babies. Baby, babies when it comes to new mothers. Which, in this town, are totally fucking stupid. They actually tend to ask for advice...which hey, you asked for it. Here it comes, moron.

I have periods when I think it'll be neat to have at least one kid, but then I see how my younger sisters act I just think, "Ugh!" and roll my eyes, "No way."

I'm still on the fence. It's hard when my mom keeps telling me, "Candee!! I want grandbabies! Nooooooooow!" when the only male interaction I've had in three years is a guy she met at work that's only been here for 6 months. Who is at our house. Allllll the tiiiiiime.

Posted by: Candee at April 5, 2011 10:52 PM

Yeah, it's true that we're completely boring about our kids. I know I am, but I'm still in the "hugely in love" stage with my one & only kid. Had him at 38, do NOT want to fuck with the genetic gods in having a second. I spent most of the first 9 months of his life alternately freaking out and rejoicing, depending on whether I felt like he was making eye contact. And now he's a fully interactive (almost too interactive), chatty, smart, funny, annoying, pain in the ass. And I wouldn't have him any other way. We've got 11 years before he hits the teens, and I'm already scared. Just hoping he's not as stupid as me or his father, and only half as reckless. And Dinosaur Train is my favorite show.

Posted by: Captain Tuttle at April 5, 2011 11:02 PM

Oh I forgot - my mom always said that she would have been much happier if she could have sent me & my sister away somewhere (anywhere - she didn't really care) at 12 and gotten us back at 21. She also told both of us she'd be cool if neither of us had kids, and that she kind of regretted having us, because it prevented her from all the travelling and fun she wanted to have. Blunt, but honest and loving.

Posted by: Captain Tuttle at April 5, 2011 11:08 PM

Snuggie, somehow I knew that comment was yours about 2 sentences in. I can't even begin to imagine what it's like being the mom of a teenaged girl. I was one, and I know I was HORRIBLE. You poor, poor thing.

BUt it WILL get better. If not, send her to a nunnery.

The more I think about it, the more I think I don't want to have kids. I'm too lazy and too selfish and the main reason I'd want to have a kid would be to name it and play with it sometimes, but fuck it, I'm just gonna get a dog. I have enough siblings so that I'll have nephews and nieces to play with so that I can enjoy them for a bit before giving them back at the end of the day.

Posted by: Figgy at April 5, 2011 11:11 PM

Snuggie: I have a daughter a couple of years ahead and can confirm there is light at the end of the "Princess Bitchface" tunnel. Its nice if/when they start treating you as a flawed human being who did their best rather than a failed god.

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at April 5, 2011 11:20 PM

Dave your comment made me laugh hard ("Princess Bitchface") and then tear up at the end. It's hard to go from the smartest, most awesome person in the world who gets tons of hugs and kisses and adoration to someone perceived as a completely idiotic full-time scorned and despised enemy. You actually cry in private sometimes. I never knew they break your heart.

But I'm hanging on to the fact that she was an extremely loving, wonderful kid and someday I will hopefully see the adult version of that kid. I see tiny glimpses here and there and it's exciting.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 5, 2011 11:39 PM

You're welcome :-)

If nothing else, PBfS has one upside: "YOU DON'T LOVE ME, LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" does give you plenty of quiet time.

Now she is at university, the main issue is finding time in each others diaries to catch up. Even though the spaces between conversations has grown, mature adult conversation makes it worth waiting for.

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at April 5, 2011 11:54 PM

I’ve been rolling over for decades and nobody gives a shit.

Give it thirty years, Jason. They call this Bed Mobility and I assure you it's a big deal at the Nursing Home.


Posted by: Stacy D at April 5, 2011 11:56 PM

I've never wanted children. Even when I was little, when I played dolls, they were never my children. They were always my "students" or "patients" or something like that.

I don't hate children, nor do I even dislike them. I just don't want one. I have my reasons, and they are quite private.

I have a cousin who doesn't seem to understand that, though. She always asks me when I'm going to have one, usually publicly, and it is only my southern charm and upbringing that has kept me from physically attacking her during Christmas dinner and ripping her arms off like a wookie.

Posted by: ZombieNurse at April 6, 2011 12:42 AM

I myself don't want kids singly, but as a unit, the spouse and I have agreed to one responsibly-plotted-out kid because he's really keen on it. Probably adopted, possibly surrogated, if he gets me really drunk I may condescend to incubate it at great personal risk. He will be the primary caregiver, and (as per his ethnicity's traditions) family will be chipping in REGULARLY to ensure that we don't need to sacrifice too much as far as social lives go.

I'm really not looking forward to all the faces I'ma have to punch though. Because all those dipshits who told me "Oh, you're just saying that NOW but when you're OLDER you'll change your mind!" when I said I didn't want kids? If even one of them tries to play the "I told you so" card, even though I still don't *want* kids, they ALL get punched. Even my mom. Sorry mommy, I love you, but you will have asked for it.

Posted by: Nat Kittyface at April 6, 2011 12:47 AM

I hate kids. Except my two little monsters. Oh they're monsters for sure but they're my monsters and one little kiss and a whispered (or shouted) I love you Mama erases all the anger of that one time the toddler pooped on the bedsheets, or regret of all the partying I missed.

The only thing I do regret is having them so young, that I wasn't able to fully enjoy my 20's before popping two out. I know I missed out on a lot of traveling and partying, but what can I do? But I've been lucky really, I live in a country where even the middle class can afford stay-in nannies and family bonds are so strong, grandmas practically beg us to leave the kiddos with them (if we're not already living in the same house/compound as the grandparents).

So yeah, I can understand how hard having a child can be there in America, with all the scheduling, high nanny costs and minimal family support. But it has thankfully, worked out for me, so far. I mean, they're not teenagers yet.

Posted by: caragwapa at April 6, 2011 2:03 AM

I've never wanted children, for lots of reasons, but my procreating colleagues refuse to see that may be a valid choice. Every other week a new, snotty, mewling brat is placed before me to fake cooing over while their smug parent tells me that I'd change my mind when I had one. Er no, that's what the coil is for.

Thankfully my brother now has two mini-me's, relieving the pressure on me from my mum for grandbabies, but the fella's parents are desperate for them (his sister has two step-children, but apparently they're not 'real'...could have fooled me) so I get to have this conversation at least once a week at home too. I may get Jason's responses tattoed on my forehead.

Posted by: Bumwee at April 6, 2011 2:13 AM

I remember that old campfire story about a ship going down and you can only save one person, you have to pick your wife or your child? When we were still childless, my wife and I would take these wild vacations all over and we would find ourselves riding these makeshift boats. I would turn to her and say that if we did have a child, I would save her instead of our offspring because we can always make another right? She would roll her eyes at me then punches me in the crotch for saying something so stupid.

Fast forward ten years and I have the most perfect 3 year old daughter in the world and I remembered that story. I would totally let my wife drown rather than let anything happen to our kid. Having kids suck. Screws up your priorities.

Posted by: otep72 at April 6, 2011 3:04 AM

Wow. I didn't realize the "no kids" contingent was so huge here. I'm all for having them if you want them, but none of my friends want them. I'm certainly not going to pressure them or make them feel like they're wrong or something for it.

I'm 25, have always wanted kids. Always, always, always. Yes, I've spent a lot of time with kids. From newborns to teens. I've taken care of four kids together, by myself, for extended amounts of time, aged between 4 months and three...and I was only fifteen then. They were not relatives. I know about a lot of the horrors, and it hasn't turned me off.

I'll try to keep it at two, but I want them before I'm thirty. I'll be 25 next month, and I'm pretty much done with the partying. I've done some traveling, and I'm not finished, but I'm ready to start the settling down and baby-making.

The boyfriend, however, is still a couple years away from being ready.


Posted by: Lexie at April 6, 2011 3:10 AM

I've never wanted children, for lots of reasons, but my procreating colleagues refuse to see that may be a valid choice. Every other week a new, snotty, mewling brat is placed before me to fake cooing over while their smug parent tells me that I'd change my mind when I had one. Er no, that's what the coil is for.
Thankfully my brother now has two mini-me's, relieving the pressure on me from my mum for grandbabies, but the fella's parents are desperate for them (his sister has two step-children, but apparently they're not 'real'...could have fooled me) so I get to have this conversation at least once a week at home too. I may get Jason's responses tattoed on my forehead.

Posted by: cosplay wigs at April 6, 2011 4:04 AM

My mother confessed to me recently that she and my father weren't sure about having kids at all...she grew up in a fairly abusive and unstable household and he grew up with his mom being pregnant constantly, she had 7 kids and 5 who didn't make it. Anyway they made the choice to "see what happens" right as they were both starting grad school. My mom got pregnant with me immediately. Oops! So she dropped out of the career track and didn't get back on until my sister was in Jr. High. She's SO MUCH happier now that she is working outside the home. There are a lot of complicated dynamics that went into her decision to stay home with us and I can see how it affected her entire life course (and my father's, because being the breadwinner ain't easy). Anyway my point is that we don't get no baby pressure in my family and thank god.

I'm reading this book right now by Naomi Wolf, Misconception, about making the realities of pregnancy and birth more open rather than the idealized crap, and the infantalization of mothers etc etc, you know, feminist stuff. It's good. Recommended.

Posted by: Cara at April 6, 2011 6:20 AM

I've just returned from catch-up dinner with my parents and my older brother, and for a bonus dynamic his lady-friend. I'll be 24 in a few hours, and my brother is 27, to set the scene.

Lately, It seems everytime these dinners happen The Old Man takes a moment to reflect (silently) on how different they are from those we shared years ago. Tonight, together, we discussed politics, religion, music, film, art, life, the universe, and everything..

But, I can tell he remembers a time when we may not have had much more conversation than a sullen "I hate pumpkin".
Two teenage boys do not a happy household make. This is not anyone's fault.

These days, both our parents will sometimes stop, and just listen to my brother and I jokingly debate, going off on tangents, cracking jokes that have The Mother in fits of giggles. Once in a while, we'll even agree on something.
That's when The Old Man just takes a sip of his beer and smiles, and once, under his breath, I heard him say to himself "best thing I've ever done".

Posted by: The Only New Zealander at April 6, 2011 7:33 AM

*weeps uncontrollably*

FUCK ALL OF YOU IN YOUR FREE, UNENCUMBERED FACES!!!! I LIVE IN HELL!!! I LIVE IN HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Kballs at April 6, 2011 8:15 AM

The years of 12-13 were the worst yet. People tell you about the terrible twos? They have nothing on middle school. When the hormones are running rampant and they don't have anything approaching an adult brain yet.

My kid's 15 now and there were days when I never dreamed she'd reach it.

Being a parent does have its rewards, but it's like the lottery: you don't keep playing because you win every day...you keep playing because you might win big now and again.

Posted by: Wednesday at April 6, 2011 8:43 AM

I have two god-children (not bad for an agnostic) whom I've corrupted utterly with DVD & junkfood pyjama parties and altrock lullabies. Godparenting = all the fun - any of the hassle. I highly recommend it.

Posted by: cinekat at April 6, 2011 9:03 AM

Thanks for making me laugh guys! This is making me see "getting dumped by a guy who wanted to have 4 kids with me" in a whole new light.

I think I might want kids some day, or rather a kid, but people always say it's not fair to the child and they'll be lonely and ill adjusted and blablabla. My relationship with my sister is pretty shitty and I know she didn't turn out to be the person my parents had hoped she'd become. As a child I often wished it was just me at home. On the other hand, when I see my friends from big families have the best time with their siblings I can't help but miss something...

Luckaly the kids thing won't be an issue for a long time, since I'm currently enjoying the rebound life of booze and fornication, instead of domestic bliss. When I'm done mopping the bar floor with my hair and having inapropriate adventures, maybe I'll think about kids again, but until then, I'm making every guy wrap himself in condoms and head to toe cling film before he gets anywhere near my ovaries.

Go back to your ranting people, I really enjoy your stories!

Posted by: Pants at April 6, 2011 9:13 AM

They warned me about the teenage years. But nothing could have prepared me. There is no manual. You can read all the books born from an amazon of felled trees. But you can never know.

Humans are wired to feel compelled to procreate, just like most other creatures. But I have suddenly become sensitive to the effect of overpopulation on limited resources. In that light, maybe it’s not so selfish to help the planet by limiting the number of children we spawn. At least, that’s how I want to justify how I feel right now.

Posted by: Mickey at April 6, 2011 9:16 AM

Ah, Jason, methinks I love thee!

I actually had a pregnancy scare this week. Menopause SUCKS, cause you never know if you're not getting your period because you're in menopause or because you're preggers. Anyway, while I was on the table, my gynocologist told me I had my period. "No, I don't." "Yes, you do." He holds up a bloody swab. Great, no really, great! (combination sarcasm font and happy font)

But just to make sure, he sends me for a sonogram. Well, let me tell you, those sonograms they show ladies having on TV are a LIE! They don't roll a mouse like object over your tummy. IT'S A PROBE. I gulped and shouted, "WHOA! I have a tampon in there!" The sonogram lady left the room while I removed it. Then she came back in and stuck the probe up my vagina and used a trackball with her other hand to manipulate what she was watching on screen. I heard a few too many "Ooops!" come out of her to be truly comfortable. Then I realized, I'M A VIDEO GAME! She has the joy stick in one hand, and a track ball in the other and she's playing me like a FOOKIN VIDEO GAME.

Posted by: BWeaves at April 6, 2011 9:31 AM

I love my daughters, but I DESPISE DESPISE DESPISE having been held hostage by their mother.

So, if you can avoid breeding, do so.
~~~

Posted by: Meander at April 6, 2011 9:32 AM

Captain Tuttle: "Oh I forgot - my mom always said that she would have been much happier if she could have sent me & my sister away somewhere (anywhere - she didn't really care) at 12 and gotten us back at 21."

I think that's why boarding school was invented. Seriously.

Posted by: BWeaves at April 6, 2011 9:37 AM

And sometimes they call you from jail and your world comes to a screeching stop.

Posted by: anikitty at April 6, 2011 10:13 AM

My wife had a hysterectomy for medical reasons 1.5 years ago which finally (FINALLY!) silenced the "When are you going to have kids of your own?" questions. See my kids, which I love dearly, are actually my step-children. I don't care about this but apparently your tolerance for inane bullshit goes up when they are "your blood" as I have been told numerous times. Which is actually MORE offensive than the constant battering about children.

But having kids makes me no more tolerant of other kids or worse, their fucking parents. I like the acronym OPK, or, Other People's Kids to describe any situation where I'm annoyed by the behavior of a stranger's offspring. I'm not sure if I coined that myself, but if I didn't I have no idea where I heard it. So I will claim credit until I hear otherwise.

I have a son entering high school next year and while he is a bit geeky and tends to get picked on, things seem to be ok. His mom and I are just bracing for the teenage hell storm to kick in full force. I think he'll be ok, his 10 year old sister is the one that's going to be a problem. She enters middle school next year, is already mouthy as hell, and I am starting to be afraid. Very afraid.

Posted by: TylerDFC at April 6, 2011 10:16 AM

Hey, I have a convertible! But then, it's just me & the boy...

Posted by: ahamos at April 6, 2011 10:56 AM

Parents can hate me all they want, it won't change anything. Ha ha.

And new parents ARE (usually) insufferable. It's kinda like people who just started dating (read: fucking) or people who just got married or people who just bought a house. They apparently think they're the first ones to ever do it (whatever it is) and therefore, it's so fascinating to the rest of us, we won't mind hearing about it every goddam waking second of the day. These people are wrong. Very, very wrong.

Most people (in my experience) tend to calm down after a few years when they realize that what came out of their loins is no more special to the rest of the world than anybody else's spawn. Of course there are always a few who think that having a kid makes them parenting experts. Actually, some think it makes them experts in everything, as if having had a kid magically imparts wisdom in all kinds of completely unrelated areas. These people are also very, very wrong. Frequently wrong, about lots of things.

People with teenagers do get a little sympathy from me. Teenagers are often horrible. Then again, so are many of their parents. Present company excepted, I'm sure.

Posted by: Slash at April 6, 2011 11:13 AM

Mr Starr and I had been told that we couldn't have kids. We shared this information with people to stop the when will you have kids questions. This instead lead to "I am praying for you; this must be God's will." And then the forwarding of any article about fertility treatments and/or adoption. Anyway the doctors were mistaken about the no kids thing and our Little Starr is 7 weeks old.

Posted by: androstarr at April 6, 2011 11:29 AM

Expecting my third in September, have a 3 and 1 year old now. Love them dearly and love being their mother, but I work about 12 hours a day and see them very little, so it's easy for me to say :).

Posted by: samantha t at April 6, 2011 11:51 AM

Andro - God bless! That is wonderful news. You know, at the risk of actually stating that having a child is a huge life event.

Posted by: samantha t at April 6, 2011 11:52 AM

I've always told Mrs. , that, sure, we can have a second kid, soon as the first one is out of the house and financially secure.

Been 25 years now and I haven't had to father anything again.

Posted by: , at April 6, 2011 11:59 AM

Hey. Shhhh. Don't tell anyone, because it's a really big secret, but not *all* teenagers are bitchy haters. Plenty are, no doubt, no doubt, & having a teen-aged daughter, I've seen them in live, odious action. Maybe I'm a slave to the great parental fantasy bubble (it's called "Modern Thought") here, but my daughter is not a snotty, self-entitled, hair-obsessed, ball of hormones. She's no nerdy freak either, so I'll be the gal to say it: my teen is a great kid. How often do you hear that?

OK, So. Now. What to do about the BF?

Posted by: IneptFake at April 6, 2011 12:09 PM

KBALLS IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 12:10 PM

My twelve year old is on Spring Break this week and has the house to himself. I checked the internet history yesterday. He's not searching for porn exactly yet but he was looking at Youtube videos of Elisha Cuthbert's ass.

*Sniff* I'm just so proud!

It's time for the "Here's my porn mags. I don't want viruses on my computer." talk.

Seriously though, he's starting to turn into a bit of a smartass (No, I DON'T know where he got that from, dick.) and I'm really dreading the next few years. My relationship with MY father is pretty much non-existent and though there's good reason for a lot of it, some of it is still based in my own stubbornness. I hope that I've done a better job with my son than my parents did with me but you really just don't know when they'll start hating you and if/when they grow out of that hate. I'm seriously frightened to death of that.

Posted by: Paultera at April 6, 2011 12:18 PM

"Just hoping he's not as stupid as me or his father, and only half as reckless." -captain tuttle.

Not. Gonna. Happen. I've raised three teenagers, last one is currently 15. They will ignore every good thing you ever teach them and develop every bad habit and flawed tendancy you have tried to hide from them. So start preparing now for the risk taking dumbass of the future and save your tuturing and music lesson money for alcohol. You'll need it.

Posted by: Phat girl at April 6, 2011 12:19 PM

I'm the last one up in the mornings in my house. Princess Bitchface Snuggiepants (I'm stealing that nickname from Dave up there) gets up at 5:30 because high school starts EARLY around here. Mr. Snuggipants gets up at 6 and they're both gone by 7. I get up shortly after that, but I'm awake and can hear them getting ready. This morning:

Princess Bitchface Snuggiepants: Um, DADDY? WHY CAN'T I HAVE MY FLAT IRON BACK?

Mr. Snuggipants: I've told you many times to use it in your bathroom and not your bedroom. You'll get it back when I think you can remember to not take it to your bedroom.

(It gets up to 450 degrees, and she used to have a bad habit of leaving it on when she left! Sitting on CARPET. This is the same child who recently turned on the oven to 400 to preheat it for a pizza, forgot, and left to go out with her friends.)

PBS: BUT HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO MY HAIR????

Mr.: I'm sure you'll figure out something.

PBS: BUT I CAN'T! I NEED MY FLAT IRON! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO????

Mr.: I'm sure you'll figure it out.

PBS: SERIOUSLY! WHY ARE YOU BEING SO MEAN?

Mr.: I'm sorry you feel that way.

PBS: THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

Mr.: Keep a respectful tone when you're talking to me.

PBS: BUT--

Mr.: We're done with this conversation. (He goes out to the back patio to drink his coffee and play with his dog, who does not bitch at him about flat irons and such, so I'm starting to see why he loves that dog so much.)

I hear PBS slam her bedroom door and about ten minutes later, she goes out the front door for school.

Later, Mr. texted me this: "Her hair was all twisted up into this weird bun thing? I guess she figured it out."

I laughed. We're practicing non-engagement when arguing and emotional manipulation is used by her and it's hard, but we're getting better.

Anyway, that was just the morning! In the evenings, he and I sit out on the back patio and give each other pep talks.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 12:25 PM

Well this is depressing. Smart funny awesome people HAVE to have kids. Haven't you seen Idiocracy??

Also, the vitriol directed against parents and babies is a little puzzling to me, cause. Aren't you glad someone was dumb enough to give birth to you?

Posted by: AM at April 6, 2011 12:34 PM

IneptFake No, they're not all bitchy haters. And what I've been saying here isn't ALL there is to know about my own teen daughter. There's a lot that's good about her, too. I mean, she came from ME. (HAHAHAHAHA)

She's a voracious reader and nothing seems to throw her academically (all AP and pre-AP courses and a year ahead in both English and math).

She's a neat freak like her dad. We haven't had to wake her up in the mornings to get ready for school since the second or third grade. And honestly, I've been pleasantly surprised at how good she's been with driving and having a car. Very good driver and very responsible with the car. She's turned in 15 job applications in the last week and desperately wants to work this summer.

There's probably more, but you get the idea. She's not even one of those teen girls prone to emotional outbursts or temper tantrums (as a two year old, she had exactly one short-lived tantrum and that was it!). This morning's thing, which I described above, is as outbursty as she gets. Hers is more of a low-level chronic disdain. But it is wearying. If you have one who is mostly pleasant and wonderful, count your lucky stars. Or maybe you haven't gotten there yet (I don't know how old yours is). Either way, good luck for the rest of the journey.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 12:34 PM

I forced my husband to sit down and read this and his only reaction was, "That's messed up." For the last year the man has been pressuring me to catch the pregnancy virus, joking about hiding my birth control pills and tossing me the Babies R' US catalogue whenever that shit comes in the mail.

I'm 24 and we live on a military base so I'm odd girl out for not already have three kids by my age. I'm sick of kids and we don't even have them yet. I'm two years out of college; I want to ENJOY getting my recommended eight hours of sleep, getting drunk on a Wednesday night because I feel like it, flying on planes and hating other peoples' screaming babies rather than hating my screaming baby, being a selfish human being with disposable income, and yes, having sex in the living room. I want to ENJOY my youth, dammit, not waste it on someone else's youth.

Oh, and to all my Facebook friends who are new parents: how can I say this delicately...

I do not give a shit about your baby. Nope, not even yours. I knew you in high school, do you really think I'm excited about you passing your remedial English-needing genes on to another generation? I don't need to see three photo albums of Jr. lying on his back because he can't do any damn thing else yet and I don't give a shit that he likes applesauce. Find something else, anything else, to talk about.

Posted by: Dingles at April 6, 2011 12:37 PM

Jason Harris absolutely does not want to see pictures of your child.

YOU LIE!

Also, I like being a parent. Not all of the time, mind you, but 95% of the time. Like when she makes dresses for her dolls out of tape and packing materials or tells The Husband "You can't brush my hair because you DON'T HAVE ANY HAIR AND DON'T KNOW HOW." Or when she scams free stuff from waitresses and other people just by being herself.

However, I have seen glimpses into the future and I am skeered, y'all. Nothing like a six year old yelling "I'M GOING TO MY ROOM TO THINK SAD THOUGHTS BECAUSE YOU HURT MY FEELINGS!" One day, she will be TEENAGED and yelling much worse stuff. *shudder*

Posted by: Pinky McLadybits at April 6, 2011 12:39 PM

You're all correct in all your statements. And my children are better than everyone else's (of course), even though #2 is a little weird and moody and #3 is just plain nuts. And just because I have three kids does not mean I want to hold your new baby. I'm so not interested. You may think that incompatible but I assure it's not. I saw a post on some online baby forum once stating with incredulity that some people have kids simply to check another life task off the list. Why else do you have kids on purpose? I spent years saying I didn't want to have kids but then married someone (an eventual anthropologist) who definitely wanted kids because that's what humans are made to do. And I couldn't disagree with his logic. Granted I would probably only have two if it weren't for birth control laziness after the second, but I don't regret our decisions. Even though we currently live in hell having three kids, the oldest having just turned five. Oh, and it is hell, the whining, sibling fights, mood swings, food issues (what is so hard about eating?!), endless baths and bedtimes. I always say I didn't have kids for now, I had them for later. I do want a big family with grandkids down the road. I do want us to gather for Sunday dinners in our amazing outdoor living and dining spaces for big meals with wine. And I want to watch the gratitude in my kids' eyes when they have their own kids and realize just what they put us through when they were young.

Someone said something around here in the last few days along the lines of there being two people in this world, parents and children. My husband has always said that too, and I'm happy to have moved away from the child designation. I'm not going to lie, I feel like a better human for having done so.

I will end with some self pity. My children have taken away our social lives and all fun that once existed. And they are currently making me fat. But our lives are certainly filled with purpose, which is good, and the kids are frequently cute and loving. And yes, my life satisfaction has gone WAY down since having kids, compared to non-parents, but let's compare again in 20 years and see where things fall.

Posted by: katy at April 6, 2011 12:57 PM

Pinky McLadybits is IN FOR IT. I hope I'm still friends with you in ten years. I promise I won't laugh too much, ok? I PROMISE. But your kid? She's going to be a hoot. She already is. Yay! But she'll probably turn into this awesome kick-ass adult, so hold onto that.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 1:09 PM

I know I'm all over this thread like Kim Karsashian on....something. But I did want to share this: I have a friend/work colleague who was recently pregnant with her first child. And I decided I LOVE this woman. Why?

1. The whole FREAKING time she was pregnant, the only time she would even discuss her pregnancy is if you asked her directly about it. Even then, she kept it short.

2. She never griped and moaned about the pregnancy. Even if she had, that would be understandable, but she is professional down to her toes and didn't want to gripe at work about something so personal. SHE'S AWESOME. (On the other hand, I work with another woman who started bitching non-stop starting when she was about five hot minutes pregnant.)

3. She had the baby. She put a simple announcement on FB with a picture. She mailed out simple announcements in the actual mail. She's home with him now, but she never posts about his poop, spit up, his every move, etc. She did not share the gory details of the birth with everyone. She only talks about him if someone asks!

She's so....normal and sane about the whole thing. It's amazing. So there are awesome new parents out there who don't assume you want to hear all about their kid.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 1:27 PM

Katy: "Someone said something around here in the last few days along the lines of there being two people in this world, parents and children."

So true. Since I'm not a parent, my relatives still sit me at the KIDDIE TABLE at family get togethers. Did I mention I've been through menopause already?

Posted by: BWeaves at April 6, 2011 1:37 PM

Most people (in my experience) tend to calm down after a few years when they realize that what came out of their loins is no more special to the rest of the world than anybody else's spawn. --Slash

My sister-in-law has not yet calmed down (her spawn are a 13 year-old girl and a 9 year-old boy) and as far as she is concerned, the fruit of her loins have the most special, precious personalities of any kids anywhere. She decided to home school rather than let the unwashed masses destroy the wonderfulness that are her two jewels (I suspect my brother does much of the teaching).

Don't get me wrong, they are, in fact, nice enough kids. But the sun does not shine out either of their asses.

Posted by: Lee at April 6, 2011 2:02 PM

My son is 8 months old. This morning he fell over trying to stand up unassisted, shook it off and crawled over to the dog and starting chewing on his tail like it was corn on the cob. I laughed so hard that I spit coffee all over my laptop.

I fully plan to rip the spine out of the first girl/boy to break his heart with my bare hands.

Oh and I posted a 1.5 minute video on facebook the other night of him eating jello. If you don't want to see the snot monkey rolling his tongue for the first time, don't watch.

And I am fully planning on another baby. I see the future where my parents will both pass away and it will be my siblings that I lean on to get through it. I wouldn't dream of depriving my monkey of those relationships. I know that only children have many advantages over kids with siblings, but I want him to always have that family connection to lean on.

BTW, my brother broke my arm when I was four because he pushed me off a roof. We had an incredibly hostile relationship throughout the elementary school years and couldn't be bothered to acknowledge each other's presence in high school. We still irritate each other daily. But we talk daily and he is awesome.

Posted by: Jennifer at April 6, 2011 2:21 PM

I chose at age 14 to NEVER inflict on a hapless child the kind of adult selfishness I witnessed first hand, not only from my own parents but also from the parents of other children.

Yes, you heard me. Parents are selfish creatures too. Each time you tsk, or sigh, or say. "Not now Johnny, can't you see Mommy's on the phone?" it is hurtful to the child. Some children will shrug it off, but others...the more sensitive ones...will become damaged. Not because mommy & daddy actuallyt did anything out of line, but just because the only creatures on the planet more selfish and self-centered than parents are CHILDREN!!!

I chose at 14, no parenting for me...EVER.
I chose surgery at 25 to guarantee this.

I'm the cool and mysterious Aunt to my nieces and nephews. I send them books. I've traveled all over the world and they've benefited from my travel tales and the odd things I brought back. They never give me lip when spending a long weekend or week over the summer.

And truth be told, they are every single one of them absolute monsters to their own parents, but totally cool little people around me.

I made the absolutely right decision, for me.

Posted by: Lady Mockingbird at April 6, 2011 2:25 PM

Oy, Jennifer, don't have another child just to give your child a playmate for life. I'm happy it worked out that way for you and your brother (my brother and I happen to be very close, too), but for every story of adult sibling closeness, there are three or four of hostility or just not talking. It's a crapshoot, and that reason alone isn't enough, in my opinion, to bring another kid into the world.

Do it because you truly want another child to love and raise. If not for that reason, don't.

Also, you can have five kids and they might all, for varying reasons, not be able to take care of you in your old age or commiserate with each other as you and your husband go downhill. That just isn't something you should count on and it's no reason to go having a spare.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 2:30 PM

I just want to say I am childless so far, but only 27 and married 4 years. We are coming to that time when it pops up here and there. I shut it down fast when we got married at 24 and one relative asked about babies. I said I wouldn't even think of it until 28. Cue 28th b-day in a month. One person asks about kids. I said I am a little busy with this new move and new job. Not to mention an unemployed husband and debt from moving. I am such a planner and it just won't happen until I feel secure and ready.
I really enjoy this thread, because I have always been ambivalent about having children. Actual pregnancy scares the bejesus out of me. And if I thought getting married invited people to get all up in my personal business, I know that will be increased 100 Xs if and when I have a kid. Aside from the idea that I can't stay home with my kid since I am and always have been the breadwinner which has already caused scorn from my own wonderful mother, despite my awesome hubby being a day-care kid. I recently mentioned that I think I only want one kid, and my mom freaked out.
I think part of my ambivalence comes from the idea of being told to have TWO kids. The more I think of only having one, the calmer I get. So many friends (mostly Facebook) are starting families and it alternately freaks me out and then makes me yearn for a kid.
I know I am babbling, I am just saying that this could not be more timely.

Posted by: Nimue at April 6, 2011 2:53 PM

Gawl, I know Snuggiepants. I really need to go ahead and get bars on the windows, a shotgun, and start saving for all the drinking I'll have to do.

Wait...what do you mean IF WE'RE FRIENDS IN TEN YEARS? We'd better be.

Posted by: Pinky McLadybits at April 6, 2011 3:24 PM

"How come you never had kids, Norm?"

"I can't."

"Gee, I'm sorry."

"Yeah, I look at Vera and I just can't."

Posted by: The Mutt at April 6, 2011 3:28 PM

Snuggiepants:

Yup - sounds familiar: a high-functioning kid who is occasionally a total freaking smart ass. Compared to the kids who are getting pregnant, openly smoking drugs, skipping school, [insert impulsive behavior list here] I think it sounds like you and I have some pretty darn good teens (my oldest is 16). However, it IS fun to let off some steam when when the adolescent vitriol gets to be a bit ripe. Your comment re supportive talks w/your husband made me chuckle a bit, because we're frequently doing that as well. Not to be a big back patter, but I think it makes for pretty good parenting.

I like the description "low-level disdain" - love it in fact & hope you don't mind that I intend to steal it.

Posted by: IneptFake at April 6, 2011 3:30 PM

CHRONIC low-level disdain, Inept. Chronic. You have to include that, if it fits. But yes, use it. Sometimes I substitute scorn for disdain (on the worse days). It's the chronic part that has really gotten under my skin lately. I've handled about 18 months of ongoing low-level disdain/scorn and it's sort of worn me out at this point. I recently called a parenting time-out and tagged Mr. Snuggie for full time Dealing With Her duty until I could feel positive again. It worked. I only needed a few days.

In that self-imposed downtime, I read Parenting Teens with Love and Logic, and while I don't agree with all of it, I like about 90% of it and it seems to be a very common sense approach, so I'm sort of coaching husband on the side (I read the book, so I'm feeding the techniques to him in bits and pieces).

Recently, I overheard another exchange which he handled BEAUTIFULLY and I texted him immediately with "GOOD JOB!" We have to support each other in this.

We also have to sometimes look at each other and say hey, she's not on drugs (that we know of), she's not having sex (pretty sure on that one), she's not out drinking (still hates the taste of alcohol), she's not skipping school, joyriding, shoplifting. We say that to each other. We nod, we go "this is true" and "we've got it good" and "this, too, shall pass."

BOTH of us were much worse as teens.

Pinky! Kidding, we totally will be.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 3:42 PM

Snuggiepants
duly noted

speaking of teen parenting books - were you able to get through Reviving Ophelia? It got me to such a heightened state of panic/despair/paranoia/anger that I just had to put it down. FerChrissakes - is it REALLY that bad? Seriously, I want America to land the helicopter take a moderation time out. Especially the Today show. Gawd. Don't get me started on the Today show.

Posted by: IneptFake at April 6, 2011 4:50 PM

Snuggie, I should mention: "Princess Bitchface" is taken from a book "The Princess Bitchface Syndrome" by Dr Michael Carr-Gregg. It was given to me by my ex/her mum and is essentially a parenting guide for parents of teenage girls. It was handy but essentially boiled down to "be a parent, not a buddy".

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at April 6, 2011 6:02 PM

oops, "essentially" fail. Too early, need coffee

Posted by: Dave Shepherd at April 6, 2011 6:17 PM

Snuggie-I'm hopefully having another kid because we have the emotional/physical/financial resources to provide a loving and safe environment for a little one who is going to grow up (hopefully) proud to be a liberal feminist. The sibling support is just icing on the cake. I loved being pregnant so we might try for one more biological kid and then pick up* a third one from the foster care system.


*Obviously I am joking about the picking up part-it's a huge undertaking to adopt a child. The mister and I were knee deep in that circus when nature finally kicked in after years of trying.

Posted by: Jennifer at April 6, 2011 6:22 PM

Vaguely recalling (way, way back) being a teenager. The thing is, my mother was a bitch. She really was. I think she tried as best she could, but HER mother was a goddam nightmare (I won't even go into the shit my mother had to put up with from her mother), so now I understand why she was that way. I still think my mother could have handled some stuff a little better, but since then, occasionally observing or hearing about other people's parents, my own mother seems one of the better ones. She was a screamer, but she wasn't abusive. She didn't let other people abuse us. We weren't neglected, we got fed. She made us go to school. She disciplined us. We had a home to live in. My mother wasn't a drunk or a crack whore. She had 4 kids (including 3 teenage girls - we're all [the girls] 11 months apart in age). So really, my mother probably deserves some kind of award for putting up with everybody's crap all those years. Her own mother is dead, so she doesn't have to worry about that bullshit anymore, at least ...

I was trying to impart advice to the teenager-having people, but I'm not sure it worked out. I guess just remind them (when they're being assholes) that if you didn't care about them, you'd let them do whatever the fuck they want. And then they'd end up being a Teen Mom or inmate #189563214782512.

Posted by: Slash at April 6, 2011 6:31 PM

Well said, Slash.

Ooooh, Dave, I'm going to find that book.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at April 6, 2011 7:02 PM

My eldest son and his wife are expecting their first child in June. I sent him this post since I knew he would find it funny; he did.

As the date draws near he is becoming nervous so I gave him my 3 rules of fatherhood:

1. Remember all that stuff that you really liked me to do when you were young? DO A LOT OF THAT.

2. Remember all that stuff that you really wished that I had done when you were young? DO SOME OF THAT.

3. Remember all that stuff that I did that you didn't like when you were young? DON'T DO THAT.

We had 3 kids (1 adopted, or, as we say, purchased without a warranty)...often sucks being a parent, but man-o-man grandparenting sort of makes it worthwhile. Not revenge or payback really, it is more like when you watched them take their first steps...you wanna grab 'em but you gotta let them do it on their own.

Feels sooo good when then do.

Posted by: PrintersDevil at April 6, 2011 9:17 PM

Slash - I think one of the hardest things about becoming a parent is revisiting your parents' parenting. My mother ran a tight ship and we had a very regulated, reliable household, but holy shit will I handle emotional situations differently. I look back at certain scenarios I'd never questioned and think "What the hell was that all about?"

I was never one of those weird kids who idealized their parents, but I also never formed concrete criticisms of their parenting until much later in life. I'm looking forward to having your forbearance - I'm not there yet.

They are wonderful with my children, though, so I'd never, ever let on I was having those resentments. Too late and too unproductive to broach them.

Posted by: samantha t at April 8, 2011 9:37 PM