Pajiba

Have to disagree about Ellen - she blew. Her monologues were stumbly and awkward, and aside from her bits with Scorsese and Eastwood (which she drug out past the joke), she was too reserved and dull.

And Scorsese only deserved his Oscar this year because the real best director wasn't nominated - Cuaron's direction in Children of Men was leaps and bounds beyond anything else, including Scorsese's work in The Departed (and I'm not all that convinced, after seeing Infernal Affiars, that he necessarily deserves it anyway).

And if they really want to cut down on the length of the show (please!), how about getting rid of that MTV reject Chris Connelly and his behind-the-stage "isn't this exciting" and "look at the horse race" bullshit?

That is all.

I confess that while I'm thrilled that Scorcese won, and I absolutely fucking ADORED The Departed... I'm not positive it was better than Letters from Iwo Jima. Because I can also confess that part of my love for Departed is because of it's location, and seeing things I know and love on the big screen is fun. It's also damn good cinema - I'm just not sure it was the best.

I'm glad Little Miss Sunshine lost out though - I liked it, but it winning would have been like Garden State winning. It's good. It's fun. It's clever. But it is not even remotely close to as good as Departed or Letters.

And Mark Walberg got hosed.

Pan's Labyrinth didn´t win, Mexico has been robbed, this is like when you guys took half our territory like 159 years ago............. :p

The ceremony sucked and I don´t think it was Ellen's fault, the live blogging was much more entertaining specially because some young women discovered that Helen Mirren is a real turn on.

I'd made my peace with the fact that Children of Men didn't get nominated for best picture, best actor or best director. But you're telling me that it wasn't good enough to win Best Cinematography? That's what everyone was talking about - the beautiful camera shots. No one ever said that about Pan's Laberynth: Great Camera.

If screaming your lungs out like you're being raped with a jackhammer qualifies as 'soul', then Beyonce's got it in spades.

CHILDREN OF MEN was robbed. But the true best films of the year rarely show up at the Oscars.

Will Smith's son is a cocky little shit, which isn't surprising, considering his father. Hey Will, instead of forcing your untalented progeny on the general public, why don't you send him back to school, so he can learn how to read? It was a tiny moment of beautiful hubris to watch him try to read, WEST BANK STORY.

I was extremely disappointed that Children of Men didn't get any of the big noms. I liked Little Miss Sunshine, but it wasn't in the same league as Children of Men. And it got absolutely hosed in not winning Cinematography. That movie was one of the most amazingly filmed I've seen in years.

Also, The Departed is still on my to-see list, but the people I talked to couldn't even believe that Wahlberg got nominated. They said it was a one-note performance with no real depth, even if he was good at his part. I haven't seen it, so I can't say my opinion, just throwing it out there.

Yes, it was nice to see Marty Scorcese, a rich, white, old man get a nice, sloppy, wet, blow job from a bunch of the other rich, white, old men in Hollywood. How refreshing!

But then again, in the best director category, they were ALL old white men lining up for the blow job.

I do wish Marky Mark had won. At least he's not old.

And, to my distinct pleasure seeing as i haven't seen Dreamgirls, it was lovely to see J. Hud not even TRYING and still slopping Beyonce around the stage like a WET RAG. Live. :)

Oh, just go rent the Queen. Helen Mirren is brilliant and the movie is amazingly well done. For something I totally didn't want to see (don't get the whole Diana thing), she made me stay awake, alert and totally interested. Also, Stephen Frears or whoever directed her and the Tony Blair guy, clearly not so dumb.

I have one complaint and it was glaring and resonating throughout the night...Ellen. The woman is unfunny, uninspired, unoriginal, and fails to captivate...they could have transplanted Whoopi, Billy, and Robin from comic relief and at least THAT tired humor would have been funnier than hers. She has no delivery and butchered every spoon-fed attempt at humor. SOOOOO....my friends and I sat around playing a game thinking of things that would be entertaining (to us) involving the death of Ellen Degeneres. And I think mine was the best as it involoved flashback humor into past relationships. It goes like this...

Ellen is alone and without a woman. Suddenly...DUN! dun! DUN! In walks Anne Hesche! She has flip-flopped again and has decided she definitely doesn't feel like a nut anymore and gets back with Ellen. Things are grand. Ellen is happy. She drops a few pounds to get away from her quickly forming vagomach. Her jokes get funny like they were in the 80's. Her show gets more popular. The planets align and earth experiences peace and harmony for the first time ever. You know...kind of like Bill and Ted, but lesbian-comedian instead of slacker-musician. One night, when things are particlarl sexy...candles are lit and music is humming in the background. Things get nice and heavy with them and Ellen goes for the boxed lunch. And then...something SNAPS!!! Anne Hesche goes bat-shit insane (like we all know she is) and grabs Ellen roughly by the back or her head, wraps her legs around Ellens face, and suffocates her while nose deep! (You know...like Fanke Janssen when she was Ontopova in the Bond flick...except this isn't HOT at ALLLL.) The death of ellen would cause a rift in the fabric of humanity and the world would fall into 23 generations of chaos...one for every movie she has done. (It could be worse...it could be 48...1 for every time she's been on ANY type of screen big or small). Anyway...yeah. Thank god Eddie Murphy didn't win best actor.

I haven't seen The Departed yet and I'm sure it's an excellent film. From what I've read, most have said that it wasn't as good as Goodfellas.

Did Scorsese win because he deserved to win for this film? Or did he win because of movies he's done in the past and has been passed over so many times? I'm going to have to go with the latter.

I think an argument could be made for Paul Greengrass and what he did with United 93. It was by far a much better film than World Trade Center could have hoped to be. And the thing about United 93 was, even though you knew how it was going to end it still kept you on the edge of your seat and you still felt compelled to watch. To be able to do what he did with sensitive subject matter and with little information to go on. I think you could make an argument for it.

Not having big name actors in the movie more than likely hurt it at the box office, hurting its chances to win anything. If it had had big name actors in it, the movie would have made more money but not been as good. So either way Greengrass wouldn't have won anything.

First time I watched the Oscars (I'm from France and I came to Chicago this year, so I'm new to this experience) and it is too long. The dance numbers were absurd, the lengthy montages superannuous and the worst thing of all:
CELINE DION
PLease, tell me my soul was not the only one that died when I saw her open her mouth and prepare the warbling...HORRIBLE.
Maybe I'm unfair. But I thought Morricone deserved better than that.

Here's a question: Why was flippin' Beyonce sitting up front and center when she wasn't even nominated for an award?? Ugh...she grates on me!

My take:

Cuaron was utterly robbed. Children of Men was the best film of the year and it was utterly snubbed. It was bad enough not getting nominated for best pic or best director -- but then it got rejected altogether?? I just don't understand what the hangup is that's preventing recognition of this technically and emotionally rich, politically perceptive film. (Also, having just read the original novel by P.D. James, I'm impressed with the screenplay. It preserved the feel of the original while sharpening it and making it relevant to today.)

Helen Mirren deserved her award, and it's so refreshing to see recognition for an older lady who is so talented and intellectually and physically attractive. Bravissima!

Rinko Kikuchi should have won best supporting actress. Her amazing performance(and the Mexican nanny) were the only great things about Innarritu's flawed "Babel."

Scorsese's award should not have been for this film. It was entertaining and better than the average potboiler, but not Oscar material. Same for Marky Mark's performance - fun but insubstantial. I also thought Jack was fun, but he mailed it in. Nothing brilliant here. Except maybe DiCaprio, and he wasn't nominated for that film.

I thought the shadow dancers were fun, and at least they kept it shorter than the old "interpretive dance" numbers they used to run.

One final note -- Ellen may have been boring, but it's amazing how far we've come when there's a gay host (and a gay best song winner) and the big gossip is about how boring it was. Who says we can't make progress??

Wahlberg's ferocious but loyal cop was an integral part of Scorsese's film, which fantastically, beautifully, wonderfully surpasses its inspiration, the Hong Kong flick Infernal Affairs.

Really, Pajiba?
Really?
In all honesty, I found The Departed a really poorly-done knock-off of an incredible HK movie.
The screenwriter changed the plot around to where it didn't make sense, Jack Nicholson was a karaoke characature, and that last scene should have cost it the Oscar.
No one does organized crime and cop dramas better than HK, and it clearly showed in this case.

I have to second question the The Departed adoration. It was a mess. And that it won for editing was a joke. I watched it with a friend from Boston & he laughed at the accents the whole way through...and what ever happened to those microprocessors? They abandoned that story line as soon as the guns started going off. And Jack's cheese eating rat scene was embarrassing. Yuch.

"The Departed isn't just an adaptation of another film, or even a crime story, but a film that's relentlessly American, pulsing with the homegrown hate and love and despair and fratricide of the spacious boroughs and blood-stained waves of grain."

That was poetry.

Additionally:

-I dont know what else to say but Peter O'Fucking Toole. The man has one foot in the grave, and the daunting prospect of having to mount up yet ANOTHER Oscar vehicle might just be enough to do him in. He's my favorite actor of all time, and it kills me that he lost, Whitaker's brilliance aside.

-Who knew that Clint Eastwood was batshit senile? New challenge for the rest of 2007: Who's really been making his movies?

"Have to disagree about Ellen - she blew. Her monologues were stumbly and awkward"

Ellen's style is to ramble in a sort of stream of consciousness, and to seemingly run off at the mouth and eventually embarrass herself. That's what's adorable about her. If you don't get that, then you don't get her, which is your loss.
She was lovely as always, and made me laugh out loud many times.
I particularly loved when she pointed out that America DID vote for Al Gore, and yet...

Sorry, I totally tuned it out when Leonardo performed verbal fellatio on Algore in front of the entire nation.

I'm real thrilled that the Oscars are "green" but really, did you need to used the show as a fucking vehicle to spread your message, Al?

Buy some fucking time!

Phoney bastard!

I normally adore Ellen - her daytime show is replayed at dinner time on a local cable channel and I often watch her for the lack of anything else decent in the 7-8 time slot. She is hilarious and usually makes fun of her guests and herself - one of my favorite traits in a talk show host. She was definitely toned down last night, as I found Jon Stewart to be the year before. It seems like hosting the Oscars is one of the worst things a commedian can do for their reputation, and I imagine it has a lot to do with the show's producers watering down the hosts' personalities.

For the record, I'm glad Mark Wahlberg DIDN'T win for the Departed. He was hardly in the movie, and his role was awfully similar to other roles he's played before. It's too bad that Matt Damon was overshadowed by praise for Leo DiCaprio in every Departed acceptance speach. DiCaprio's performance would have fallen flat with anyone but Damon starring opposite him.

"I find Ellen to be very casually funny without chewing up the goddamned scenery. She just seems nice and aware that the evening isn't about her."

Very well put, Samantha T. :)

I agree that Children of Men was robbed. I was praying that a write-in campaign would give it best picture, but I guess God had his hands full with Jennifer Hudson.

Thought the show was ok, but I would hate to watch it without the DVR. . .but I got screwed since the show ran over time my DVR stopped recording and I got to live TV an hour later. That'll teach me, it amazes me to think that they really thought that they would have it done in 3 hours, do they not rehearse it.

Also it would have been nice for Ellen to mention that Ryan Gosling was Canadian when she was mentioning all of the other countries that the nominees are from.

It had some funny moments but a lot of boring ones too, but that is what fast forward is for.

What's with all the hate on Ellen? Her style is subtle, dry and not in-your-face (stream of consciousness as someone else said). I'd think the Pajiban commenters would actually appreciate the style... guess I overestimated some of you.

Anyone else notice the announcer-lady refer to Infernal Affairs as a Japanese film? And Ellen saying Penelope Cruz was from Mexico? As if Americans aren't already seen as self-absorbed ignoramouses trapped in a bubble. How hard is it to get that kind of shit straight?

Anyways, I think all the musical numbers and montages should be cut, save for the tribute. More time for speeches, less bullshit. Although, considering how shockingly lacking in charisma many of these people are when they win, it'll be a snoozefest no matter how they organize it. That's the Oscars for you.

Babel lost. Good.

While I loved the movie, and would've loved to have seen Adriana Barraza win Supporting Actress, something about the whole of the film just didn't do it for me. Maybe it was Brad Pitt. I found his performance a little dry.

At any rate, glad Scorsese won, but I felt like Best Pic was kind of a gimme. I would rather have seen Sunshine or The Queen win.

The Oscars were last night?

nexus 6 wrote, "But then again, in the best director category, they were ALL old white men lining up for the blow job."

Inarritu, of 'Babel', is Mexican. And only 43. Just saying. :)

I also second the motion that everyone should see 'The Lives of Others' before instantly crying foul on the foreign film category. And 'Children of Men' not even winning Best Cinematography? What a joke.

Saw only about 20 min. of it, which was apparently about enough. Don't really care who won and Scorcese's Oscar at this point in his career seems more like an insult than an honor, but whatever. I actually agree about the speeches. If they'd cut out all the boring shit no one wants to see (dancing, singing, tributes, who-died-last-year, the truly shitty patter between the awards), they could easily have the thing down to 3 hours, which is really as long as it should ever be. As for Ellen, Oscar host is a thankless job. If you're ingratiating and polite, people accuse you of being boring. If you try to be funny, people think you're being an asshole. You sorta can't win. Johnny Carson as host is looking better and better with every passing year. Too bad David Niven's dead, too, he'd be perfect. Maybe they need to go British. How about Eddie Izzard? That might entice me to watch.

And I agree with Ari above - we see the "superstars" every freakin' day, it's not special anymore. I actually would like to see the people "behind the scenes" who help make the movies, not just the people who appear in them. Watching women wearing jewelry worth a hundred times more than everything I own just doesn't do it for me.

I liked the interpretive dance stuff, it was short and well done. It would be awesome if they cut the songs (except Jack Black &co.) nobody wants to hear Celine Dion. And Ennio Morricone deserved every second of his awesome speech, I just wish my Italian was better, that man is a genius. Speaking of genius, the sound effects choir was phenomenal and I was so glad they gave those people some face time! Ellen was fine, she had a couple of moments but I like that she realized that it wasn't about her.

"Em - petition your local indie film theater, if you've got one. One of the local theaters in Columbus is showing all of the Animated and Live Action shorts. Haven't made it to see them yet, but they do exist!

Posted by: fenchurch at February 26, 2007 3:35 PM
"

Thanks Fenchurch! Hopefully I'll be able to see it...the two seconds I saw of it last night, coupled with the director's really great speech, makes me really want to see it.

F-ing Oscars!!

Cut the damned montages/dance numbers [except the "In Memoriam" montage], extended host-celebrity jokey interaction/camera mugging, and let people have time to give their f-ing speeches!!

And I hate all of these actors/politicians sucking each other's dicks pretending like they have brought the message about global warming/poverty/etc. to the world. I think we all heard about global warming long before DiCraprio and Al Gore started talking about it. The scientists and activists have been talking about this stuff for years!! I've been watching news reports and Discovery Channel (for example) programs on these problems for years! I only heard Al "I invented the internet" F-ing Gore talking about this, in the last year. Hollywood loves to pretend like they are the ones who have educated the public about a problem, but it is lies and BS. I can't stand attention whores like Gore and those actors who take credit for something they didn't do.

Hollywood blows.

My two conclusion from last night:

Latino is the new black.

Stasi is the new Nazi.

Ellen rocked. If you think about her in the persona of Dory from Finding Nemo...her seemingly self-deprecating ramble makes perfect sense. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but I thought her bit with the audience was hilarious. Especially about Penelope Cruz's dress (which I thought was ugly as sin).

And, Grr..., the whoring may be offensive and presumptuous, but if it gets people to recylcle then ROCK ON. Sometimes it takes a celebrity to make changes.

And, on a final happy note, Melissa Etheridge beat out Dreamgirls! Best upset of the night.

um, can we talk about the halfass crapped set design ??!!
between the quilted vinyl and spray painted chipboard... cruddy enough to believe perhaps Celine Dion was responsible.

so a tennessee based firm just released findings that Al Gore uses more electricity and gas in his mansion in one month than the average American uses in an ENTIRE YEAR, and that his wasteful consumption has actually increased since the release of his movie!

Let's give that man an oscar!

oh wait...

I usually find Ellen very likeable, but I was cringing for her during her monologue and other comedic bits -- her style perhaps just isn't large enough to fill the overblown Oscar space. There were uncomfortable silences, bad timing...ugh.

"I agree that Children of Men was robbed. I was praying that a write-in campaign would give it best picture, but I guess God had his hands full with Jennifer Hudson." -- Absolutely hilarious... I forgot which commenter posted this. I'm always impressed by the [self-centeredness? huge ego? hubris?] that makes people really think God Himself is orchestrating things so they get their entertainment awards.

In a show that long and boring, I found the innovation of the short dance numbers kind of refreshing. I thought Ellen did a good job being herself. Even though I think that she was toning it down, she remained true to her own style of humor, and I think she had several very funny moments. And as a commenter pointed out above, hosting the Oscars is kind of a sucker's bet.

I would comment about who got robbed, who was given and award this year essentially for lifetime achievement, who should have been nominated and wasn't, etc., but I have long ago given up the hope that the Oscars will ever be anything more than a natural extension of Hollywood politics. I indulge my shallow side and watch for the fashions (the Fug Girls have done an excellent job vivisecting some deserving individuals), and on occasion, I am happy to see a well-deserved win.

Okay...I lied. Two things: Chilren of Men was robbed. And last night completely confirmed my girl-crush on Helen Mirren. Sexy, brilliantly talented, funny, good self-esteem, intelligent, and, ohmigod, wrinkly. And yet she was the best looking thing in a roomfull of botoxorexics (I'd be shocked to learn that Kidman can still blink). I'd tell Hollywood to take note, but they won't.

I have no idea who the pre-show jackass was, but he looked to me like a strange lovechild between Jimmy Fallon and Jon Stewart, and he creeped the hell outta me.

In other news. Big night for lesbians. Whee!

I'll tell you who was robbed: Pixar! Cars should have won! The animation was superior and the script was consistent and strong. AND it didn't bore or scare my kids.

Also, will someone please give Djimon Hounsou his props? That man raises the credibility and intensity of every film he's in, ever. I'm not saying Alan Arkin wasn't good. I just want Djimon to get the love he deserves!

I will never understand why Pan's Labyrinth beat Children of Men (best movie of 2006) for cinematography. I was absolutely outraged.
I think that the Oscars should start a little earlier..and then they could run for five hours. It could just be one of those things that you keep on all the time because there's nothing else. Honestly, no one does anything new on tv on oscar night so it could be seven hours long, and I still wouldn't really have a reason to turn it off. The only danger would be people falling asleep.
Poor Peter O'Toole. And I can't believe no one has mentioned Forrest's odd acceptance speech.
Babel was better directed than The Departed, but Babel really missed out when it came to delivering the message that it seemed to carry (silently) throughout.

on the subject of Ellen hosting, I've always just found Ellen's comedy extremely boring in general. Someone touched on it a bit before, but she's just way to safe and goofy. I can definitely see where other people find her funny, and I guess she sort of is in a goofy kind of way, but she lacks any sort of edge or bite that I think makes real comedy.

Ellen was lovely, delightful -- completely RELAXED, which was a relief after my darling Jon Stewart's frozen deer in headlights performance last year...

Though I despise everything about him, I still felt bad for Eddie Murphy.

Cut the musical numbers. We do not need to hear the songs. Cut some of the awards -- sorry, techies, but you've read your last laundry list of names with a shaking piece of paper in your shaking hand for the last time.

Leave everything else as it is and get a major corporate sponsor or three, freeing up ALL that fucking time taken up by commercials.

And yeah -- get that moronic "horse race" shit out of there. Who WAS that guy backstage, smarming it up with the gradually diminishing wall of statuettes behind him and the tepid-to-execrable pre-cooked witticisms dribbling from his starfucker mouth like asparagus-tinged semen from a reluctant hooker's maw?

Despite its overlong presentation, I honestly thought this was the most enjoyable telecast in at least a decade.

And I thought the shadow dancers were amazing.

I wholeheartedly agree on the comments about Beyonces awful screaming. It was as if all of her rage and bitchery exploded into her "performance" it was just as amusing as it was uncomfortable to watch. And honestly, what kind of name is Beyonce?

Helen Mirren did in fact look better than the skeletors.

Also, may I express my contempt for the fashion "police". I am so tired of no originality, of all the women wearing the same dress in different colors, and these fucking idiots who are scarier looking than those "actresses" sit around and all they can say is "She looks great in that dress its fabulous I love her body!" Bring back JOAN RIVERS! I love that crazy lady. The interpretive dancers were very cool I thought, and yes cut the montages.

All in all, my reaction is:

meh.

I have to stand up for Gore - his passion for the environment and global warming in particular can be traced back to the early 1980's, well before most people knew what global warming was.

It's my opinion that any mass media coverage of global warming as a serious threat is beneficial to the cause as a whole. I think that it's great that Hollywood is at least making a step in the right direction - cause the president sure isn't.

Also - I thought Ellen was great. And that Forest Whitaker's speech was really touching(although I never saw a problem with his other speeches - stage fright is tough!).

I still think Anika Noni Rose outshined Beyonce and Jennifer in the movie, even with considerably less screen time. I checked out the Youtube clip of them singing, and she was the only one not overdoing it. I think all three of them are talented singers, but Beyonce was clearly trying to outsing Jennifer, who has a powerful voice, but tends to oversing as well, IMO. Rock on, Anika. Continue to be fabulous in your understated way.

[i]"Do you think Frances, Steven and George would all be onstage together if Marty was NOT going to win? It was more of a Lifetime Acheivement award than for Best Director. Then why not just give Marty the goddamn Lifetime Acheivement?"[/i]

I was thinking along the same lines! When those three walked on stage, did we have to open the envelope to know who was going to win? It was such a dead giveaway. Not to mention that Coppola, Lucas, and Spielberg consider Scorcese a really good friend. That was such a bummer.

I also think that Forest Whitaker's speech was amazing--it was honest, humble, but compelling. Haven't seen the film (I have no idea if they're ever going to screen it where I live, I may have to steal a copy online :P) but from the clips alone, his performance was compelling. I kinda feel bad for Peter O'Toole, though.

If there were nothing else good about yesterday evening, it would be worth it for the fact that Scorcese finally got an Academy Award.

Why? It stops him from having to make his mediocre-to-bad recent movies, and stops me from having to read stories about how he hasn't won, and seeing his eager, tragic little face in the audience year after goddamn year.

I am not in favour honorary-in-all-but-name Oscars, but I would have paid money to stop him from humping our collective legs once more. You can retire now, Marty; it's time.

Ellen was fine. She, unlike other presenters, knew she doesn't have to be the bride at every wedding. One low point: the "spontaneous" interviews in the audience. Nothing but awkward time-wasters. What would Ellen have done, when she asked Scorcese if he were having a good time, he had said no?

United 93 and Children of Men didn't win anything, so pffft. Let's concentrate on the dresses. Cate Blanchett and Kate Winslet looked lovely. I, for one, would rather see the woman than a freaktastic "statement". Helen Mirren's dress was pretty, but chewed by corgies.

Has there ever been more botox on parade than this year? I predict that in the next 12 months, a scientist will prove it causes permanent nerve and muscle damage. Not that this will have much affect on Nicole Kidman's career.

Ari,

You're right, I did misconstrue several of your comments. Hell, I just like to play the devil's advocate.

Maybe your frustration isn't at the Oscars per se, but more directed to the media machine that shoves these celebrities down our throats every waking minute. We have to wear what they wear, eat what they eat, drive what they drive, and care about what they care about (according to media). It's enough to make me want to move to Timbuktu.

I actually find the Oscars to be a refreshing moment in "Hollywood" away from all the hype because, when people make acceptance speeches, we get to hear THEIR words, not a script or a catchline from a commercial. For me, it makes those people a bit more human (aside from the millions they are wearing).

And I LOVE the little guy moments. Perl up there was right; seeing West Bank Story win, and hearing the director's impassioned plea brought it all home to what filmmaking is really about.

Thanks Nexus 6.
Reading through all these comments it's become a little more clear to me what precisely my problems with the Academy are. Aside from the voting method and the many 'complications' that accompany it, --and things I already said in another long-winded post-- what most turns me off about the Oscars is that at the end of the day, as someone implied, the telecast itself, the ceremony itself, is all about entertainment. People watch the Oscars to be entertained.
This also happens to be the problem with most media. Even the nightly news has to be overly dramatic for people to watch. We're Amusing ourselves to Death, to steal a line from Neil Postman.
Where this becomes a problem is when people start thinking "They need to cut out those unimportant awards that nobody cares about" or "They should have actors accept awards for best picture, because producers are boring". I don't mean to target the people who made these comments, but YIKES! why should entertaining the populace take precedence over the ostensible purpose of the Oscars? It's an awards show.

To be fair, Grr...., Al Gore published his first book on the subject back in 1992, so environmental activism is not a new thing for him.

http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Balance-Ecology-Human-Spirit/dp/0452269350

Ellen was good.

Seinfeld was good.

Hudson and Beyonce shrieking at each other were not.

Also: is there a law in Mexico which says that you can only make films if you are white?

Just because he wrote a book about it, doesn't mean he was actively doing anything meaningful about it. He was in a position to make sweeping differences while he was in power, but what did he achieve while he was Vice President of the United States of America--arguably the most powerful nation in the world? And thank you to the poster above for pointing out how much energy the man wastes. He is hypocritical. He is also desperate to be a "great man"--this is why he won't go away quietly. I wish he and Tipper "lets Censor art" Gore would go away.

As for the awards: CUT THE EXTRAS.
I, and many others, actually enjoy seeing the technical awards. Without these people, there are no films! Who make the writers/directors/actors visions come to life?

But seriously, Peter O'Toole? I know Forest Whitaker was amazing, I loved Last King of Scotland, blah blah blah - but if we can give Martin Scorsese an Oscar for The Departed, why not O'Toole for being a better actor for longer than half the audience has been alive? Venus not only was a swansong for O'Toole, but it was a brilliant film about human desires and actors past their prime - something Hollywood should be familiar with, right? Also - Ryan Gosling in Half Nelson was amazing. I cried. Honestly. The Best Actor nomination was like really good dark chocolate - I couldn't stop at one piece.

Ellen was fabulous - sedate, low-key, still managing to be amusing. Sucking up Cruz's dress? Fucking priceless.

Pan's Labyrinth not winning for Best Foreign Film was madness. Lives of Others was great, don't get me wrong, but Pan's Labyrinth was amazing. Stunning visuals, great intertwined stories, a masterful example of magic realism - and above all that, something different. It's not every year that a great fairy tale comes out, and it would have been nice to see it be honored. Plus, I can't get that song out of my head...

Children of Men, though, should have been nominated for Best Picture and should have won. Excellent cinematography, haunting story, great adaptation from the novel, good political points...seriously, I don't understand why it wasn't even nodded at. The Departed was fine, but it wasn't like I've never seen Goodfellas. And Infernal Affairs? Fifty times better. Mmmm...Tony Leung. I agree with a former post - nobody does bad cop thrillers like Hong Kong, even without Marky Mark doing the same damn stock Boston character he's played his entire life.

Speaking of gay - what was the point of having Hudson and Beyonce sing and have three nominations when Etheridge was going to win? Like, I don't know what the Academy was trying to say with that one - "Love ya, finding this pop phenomena of you two amusing, cool musical, but Al Gore's still cooler?" It was an okay song, but again, nothing new, nothing amazing. Who knows...

Last thing - for all the talk of it being an international Oscars (and Morricone's speech was fabulous - I don't care if you couldn't understand it) and titters about Steve Carell...what was up with the America montage? Was I the only one frightened by it? Especially the Superman clip (which, incidentally, really didn't need to be nominated for Special Effects when the majority of the time was spent enhancing Clark Kent's package).

Just before I found your blog I was hunting around the internet looking for any mention of Beyonce's failed attempt to come even remotely close to inducing the goose bumps newcomer Jennifer Hudson can raise. I thought maybe I had imagined her rivalry... Not only was Beyonce's performance painful to hear, watching her hair get stuck to her lip gloss as she swung her head to and fro was equally annoying.

Livvie -

Ha, your reaction proved one of my points! This is exactly the kind of thing I was addressing.

I'm a great vintage, BTW--1970. Seen all early Scorcese and have in fact even published articles on film (not on MS, though). 1970s American cinema is actually my personal baby, when it comes to stuff made on this side of the pond. And I love what we in the trenches reductively call "masculine" cinema in general. Does it amaze you that someone like me--maybe like you, in fact--can think MS overrated?

Beyonce really inspires the kind of love and hate that you mainly see with political figures or icons. Why search the net to trash or defend her -jennifer hudson is not going to stop beyonce from making lots of money; love her or hate her, she is here to stay!

Silly Rio! The Oscars aren't for YOU and your DAD. They're for entertaining people! They're so everyone can see what dress their favorite starlette is wearing. Why on earth would you think that an awards show was about awards??

(I'm drowning in sarcasm, just in case anyone had any doubts. :( Rio, that's awesome that you got to experience that, and Kudos to your dad!)

Anyway this dead horse is a bloody pulp, so I'll drag it over to the "Daily Bread" thread.

Yes, Livvie, it's been pretty well established that this site is thick with pro writers (to its benefit, I think), which is why I was a little surprised people would make assumptions about the age/maturity/intellect of another poster. BTW it was no "fuck you" at all, but an attempt to get you to take me seriously and engage in real discussion rather than namecalling. It worked, didn't it?

(As for payment--unfortunately that's not a perk when it comes to scholarly journals...instead you get a pat on the back from other egg-heads, add another citation to your cv and maybe a future book deal out of it.)

I see we agree about MS's sad decline, at least. (What the hell was Gangs of New York, anyway?) But of course this isn't uncommon--so many great directors started out strong and went to seed (you mentioned Coppola--there's the most famous case.) A lot of my own favourites have gone this route too. Pisser. MS is good (I hope you noted that part where I mentioned that--twice) and deserves recognition, of course, for his early work, but my problem with him as always been (1) his best works are a little one-note, lacking in range, and (2) he lacks the precision and nuance I and a lot of people believe are the hallmarks of a master filmmaker.

As to influence--and forgive me if I don't stay within US borders completely, as filmmakers have always looked abroad for ideas since Eisenstein's day and there is no creative customs officer on the watch--French New Wave had already happened by the time Mean Streets hit the screen, and German New Wave was well underway. We can scoff all we like at the snobby cliche that comes off as, but in terms of film history, their influence is factual.

American? You mentioned The Conversation, which was more or less in production when Mean Streets was (and word on Hellman--guy never gets a mention). Straw Dogs had already come out, and Chinatown (partway American film) was also in production along with Mean Streets, which has the kind of hard, precise, nuanced technical quality as well as all the lovely viscera MS does well (actually no one does machismo like MS). MS was operating in a creative cluster that he benefitted from royally--we should all be so lucky, they don't happen often. So in a way he was influential and in a way he wasn't _as_ influential as blog biographers like to paint him.

Great filmmakers around that period or who predate Mean Streets (not MSs first film, but the one that informed the rest of his "best" stuff and forged the style he's known for): Guys like Melville, Polanski (before he went to seed), and films like Poor Cow and Blow-Up (not to be confused with Blow-OUT) stand out for me and I think rippled all the way to the States and bled into MS's work. There's your Godfather, as well (which for me ain't no Cercle Rouge but I'll acknowledge its place in history).

Master filmmakers are the Renoirs and the Bergmans and the Kubricks and the Kurosawas--the ones who don't slip (much) and who prove their skill in a variety of different types of film (whereas MS, once he steps out of his Taxi Driver mold, kind of fizzles). They all share a quality of precision and do nuance and complexity like no one else. Sure you're sick of hearing their names but...I mean, Grand Illusion. It's like sex on a screen.

Maybe my problem isn't so much with MS per se, but the way he's elevated by others to the ranks of the greatest of greats, on a world scale, and a lot of film folks just don't agree. Some of us think MS had a positive influence on what was increasingly becoming a commercial cinema in the US, as the 70s wound down (not that some great film doesn't come out of HWood, but that's another discussion.)

1. I liked Ellen, she's not 'edgy' but she fits the Oscars better than Stuart or Rock. Slightly irreverent, but not so much so that her type of material doesn't fit the show.

I mean I like those other 2 guys MUCH better in general, but they're better off doing their own thing (would you rather have Chris Rock put out another comedy album next year, or do the 2008 Oscars?) And the last thing we need is the Academy going back to their really safe choice of...Billy Crystal.

2. I'm in the Lifetime Achievement Camp on Scorsese. The Departed was a good flick but too uneven, and nowhere close to the level of his prior work. I certainly didn't think it was the best movie of the year either (heck, not even the best version of its story.) Whatever.

3. I loved Happy Feet! I didn't see Cars yet though, so can't comment on who's more deserving. But I was very happy for George Miller.

4. I thought this was the best Oscar show in awhile. I'm pretty sure Ellen will be back.

Agree:


We here at Pajiba aren't so interested in the big awards shows; they always seem to be more about the dresses and the celebrities in them than the actual movies... -- That's why I only watched about half of it, switching between the Oscars and a movie in my DVD player periodically. If it weren't for The Departed I wouldn't have watched at all.




...the only real bummer was that Mark Wahlberg lost out to Alan Arkin. -- I guess but all the supporting actor noms this year were underwhelming in my opinion. Marky Mark was merely the smartest retard in SPED school so to speak.




It was nice to see Marty finally get his Oscar... -- It was the main reason I watched. If he didn't win for this one, his best film in my opinion, then he was never going to win and I was basically going to boycott the Oscars indefinitely.




If you want to cut an hour off the telecast, then kill those damn tribute montages... -- Fuck yeah! Actually I take that back. I think it's totally appropriate that they do it for the people who pass away each year. But the rest are meaningless timewasters.




Disagree:

Ellen was a terrible host. I like her but she looked like a deer in headlights most of the time and bumbled over her monologues. Didn't look like a good gig for her at all. But Oscar hosts usually suck anyway, when's Sam Jackson gonna host?




...there were no -- zero, none, nada -- memorable speeches; no one, sadly, made a spectacle of him or herself... -- Did your hearing aid go out while they were stroking Al Gore's ego for nearly half the show? He didn't cross the line, but it was still really tacky. And let's not forget Melissa Ethridge reminding everyone that she exists and she's still a lesbian. She did everything but shout "I love pussy and I won an Oscar for a shitty song" at the top of her lungs.




(though some of us here at Pajiba would've really liked to see Ryan Gosling win) -- Gosling only did all right in Half Nelson, and it's an overrated movie in general.




...to DiCaprio's lonely yearning to find a father in Martin Sheen... -- What the hell are you talking about? Did we watch the same version of the Departed? Or did you just make that up?




Lastly, some of us felt the best moment of the night was Beyonce's performance. -- Whatever, she's such old news. She's nothing but a cartoonish-looking mean-spirited bitch and not even really worth talking about.




The Rest:


Meh.

Disagree:

Ellen was a terrible host. I like her but she looked like a deer in headlights most of the time and bumbled over her monologues. Didn't look like a good gig for her at all. But Oscar hosts usually suck anyway, when's Sam Jackson gonna host?




...there were no -- zero, none, nada -- memorable speeches; no one, sadly, made a spectacle of him or herself... -- Did your hearing aid go out while they were stroking Al Gore's ego for nearly half the show? He didn't cross the line, but it was still really tacky. And let's not forget Melissa Ethridge reminding everyone that she exists and she's still a lesbian. She did everything but shout "I love pussy and I won an Oscar for a shitty song" at the top of her lungs.




(though some of us here at Pajiba would've really liked to see Ryan Gosling win) -- Gosling only did all right in Half Nelson, and it's an overrated movie in general.




...to DiCaprio's lonely yearning to find a father in Martin Sheen... -- What the hell are you talking about? Did we watch the same version of the Departed? Or did you just make that up?




Lastly, some of us felt the best moment of the night was Beyonce's performance. -- Whatever, she's such old news. She's nothing but a cartoonish-looking mean-spirited bitch and not even really worth talking about.

Haha, Livvie--some of the least "hip" people you'd ever want to meet (we're talking white socks and fanny-packs) have said the same thing that I'm saying...

I see where the debate lies--I can't imagine any director only gathering his influence "within the confines of America"n cinema; it just doesn't realistically work that way. At least that hasn't been the case in the director's interviews and bios I've read.

But to try to answer your question: When I say MS is overrated, I repeat I mean that on a world scale. By that I don't mean to suggest what you consider the "best" in American film can't compete on a world scale (with the Fellinis and the Kurosawas and the whatnot), but I feel what MS has influenced has been more commercially than internationally impactful.

However, to this day I think the directors who still inform MOST American (and a lot of Euro and Asian) movies are Hitchock, Lang, Welles, Wilder and Cuckor. Studio System guys--who may or may not have been born on US soil but who eventually worked in that studio system. I see their imprints in 90% of the stuff produced on American turf today. I mean, today's RomComs are pure descendents, and today's thrillers--which make up a healthy dose of US output. MS partly influenced guys like Tarantino (who's too syncretic a director to claim just one influence, I think), but when you really sift US film, I think the ghosts of the studio system (somewhat blander stuff) dominates HWood output. Chaplin's still got a pulse in US comedy form. My mind is thinking sheer numbers. But even going offbeat "indie", Cassevetes had as much impact there as Hellmen, people argue.

I would love it if the Oscars cut the musical numbers. Most are only "good" in the context of the movies in which they appeared and don't stand on their own.

I generally agreed with most of the award winners. However, although I'm in the minority here, I would have liked to see Babel win for best picture. Was it flawed--yes. But I found it stayed with me longer than the other best picture nominees. And I'm sorry, I don't think Jennifer Hudson gave a great acting performance--singing yes, acting no. I thought Rinko Kikuchi should have won.

And I think Ellen was okay, not spectacular. I preferred both Chris Rock and Jon Stewart, but understand many in the audience didn't care to have fun poked at them. In any event, I agree with the poster who said they prefer Ellen over Billy Crystal.

Very interesting conversation ranylt and livvie. I know pretty much nothing about films/film history/criticism...I study something completely different, so it's interesting to hear something new. I do have one sincere question though, which should prove what an out-of-the-loop nerd I am. I keep hearing the word 'hipster', and admittedly for years and years now. But it seems as if recently the word has become a pejorative. What is it, and why is it suddenly bad?

Very interesting, I think I'm getting the idea. I was surprised that hipster could be applied to people so young when you mentioned The O.C., because I'm actually not much older than the characters are supposed to be. I haven't seen it before, it for no other reason, then because I have an older who would publicly shun me for it. But I remember for a couple of years in university (for that minute when the show was popular), that a lot of the girls talked about that show a lot, or skipped the last half of night classes to go watch it, so I gleaned a little bit of information from them. I've also run into a lot of that 'too for school' attitude there too-- it was university after all. I was a little rankled by the pretentious attitude, and that's coming from someone who doubled in English Lit. and Music, where it takes real work not to become a major twat (excuse the language).

I had heard the term before, but thought better to ask someone who seemed to be in the know, because that term like 'emo' (equally confusing to nerd-a-lingers like me), seems to be undergoing a similar transformation.

Anyway, I'm sorry for hijacking the thread, and I really, really appreciate the help ranylt. I can think of more than a few educated people who would give me the stink eye for asking a question like that a) because that word doesn't appear in Richard II, b) if I'm not 'hip' enough to know, I don't deserve to learn. So, it's always nice to hear from someone who is literate, and doesn't want to use that intelligence to make others want to die.

Thanks again, have a great day.

I finally saw The Departed (I tend to watch movies on DVD as crowds scare and annoy me by turns) and while it had absolutely sparkling moments, and a performance by Leo that finally made me love him, I think it was just as others have said-- uneven. Still, considering I don't tend to enjoy movies in this story genre (action, crime, gangs, etc) the fact that I enjoyed it in a way I haven't felt in a long while, really tickled me.

I -really- don't want to be insulting to livvie and ranylt, but as someone who's been through the film school wringer, this attempt to name 'the great filmmakers'-- and compare them as a method of determining their worth on some sort of relative scale-- strikes me as an exercise in futility. I've seen so many people attempt to turn taste in film into a virtual science, talking about influences as if they're measuring out chemical compounds that went into the construction of such and such a film-- and for what purpose?
Thus, a statement such as 'MS is overrated' just strikes me as silly, as does a counterargument to it. It struck me as so when you began to discuss people and what categories they fit in, in the same vein. I've never met individuals so quantifiable that their qualities can be almost mathematically added up to earn them a a label. "This person is a hipster. This person is a hipster minus B plus a touch of X multiplied by 3, with a little touch of the emo--" Good heavens, I think you're both probably lovely people-- but what an intellectual turn-off!
Again, I don't mean to bash, nor censor you, as I certainly have no right to the latter, nor any fondness for the former.

*laughs*
Fair enough, ranylt.

Cut it down to: picture, director, actor and actress (lead and supporting), screenplay (original and adapted), documentary (only long, because a short documentary is basically a The More You Know spot), foreign, animated (short and long), song. Assume 7 minutes for each award (22 in total for song, because you have to play them all), 10 for best picture because it's the last and no one cares about time constraints on it. 109 minutes. (Sorry to technical fans, but there's already a ceremony for technical awards, though sadly not a show--just move the missing ones to that ceremony.) There. Less than two hours.

Add a 10 minute opening--119. Almost two hours flat. Add a 5-minute In Memoriam. 124. Add about 30 minutes of banter and jokes outside of the awards presentations and opening. 154. There. Two and a half hours.

40 minutes of commercials (16 per hour as per TV standard) for 194 minutes, and we have three and one quarter hours of TV. 45 minutes of wiggle room, assuming they keep shooting for that goddman four-hour mark in the telecast.

For my next trick, I solve world hunger.