Pajiba

You touched on an interesting point, Dustin. I can't stand TP's films. They're just awful. But I wonder if people flock to them so much not because they're good, but because there's nothing else to compare it to. Crap is still crap at the end of the day, but which is worse: basic crap like this, or nothing at all?

So I know what you are getting at and it's mostly about the Hollywood machine, but I would argue that there are fine film makers out there such as Mike Leigh and Danny Boyle who still make excellent films that realistically depict white and often mixed-race working class life, it's just not American working class life.

It's about a single-mom living in the Chicago projects raising three children -- all of whom have different fathers -- and struggling to make ends meet while staving off eviction, an abusive, deadbeat ex-husband, and the influence of drug culture on her eldest, basketball playing son.

Jeebus. I don't think you could stuff one more stereotype in there if you tried.

wait, wasn't Bill Cosby a doctor on his show? and wasn't his wife a lawyer? They weren't a low rung on the socioeconomic ladder if I remember it right -- that house was pretty nice.

aidan, honey, read it again, slower this time.

Man I loved the Cosby Show. Good stuff.

I'm not even gonna bother with Tyler Perry.

P.s.btw. I finally saw Juno today, it's been in the UK cinemas for less than 2wks and I saw it today. Funny one liners. Did anyone cry at the end? I did...

"Most of the other so-called "urban films" are about men dressed as women, former rappers playing upper middle class Dads, or Disney-fied depictions of inner-city America featuring chiseled bodies in dance competitions.

At least Tyler Perry turns the camera on a part of America we don't get to see much of anymore, except maybe as depicted/distorted by Jerry Springer, Judge Mathis and the five-o-clock news -- and that's probably why his films do so well at the box office. As horrible as they may be, they're the only films that depict a kind of reality for a significant demographic. And hell: Maybe he'll open some doors or provide some opportunities for filmmakers with actual talent to make films about the plight of underprivileged black America"

This is why I view Perry as a necessary evil. I don't usually see "me" in movies and even though I am definitely not one of the stereotypes in his films, he does represent a stepping stone to Hollywood recognizing the need for more racially diverse work. Hell, myself and a lot of the people I know are muts anyway, like a goddamn Skittle crew.

It would help if these movies were, you know, good or well rounded. But at least the door's cracked open a bit more.

>>If it were airing on a plane and I'd run out of reading materials and the battery in my iPod ran out, I'd probably prefer to stare at the back of the seat in front of me or listen to a business traveler talk about his big Power Point presentation for two hours rather than watch Meet the Browns.

I was on that airplane just yesterday and found myself tuning into Tyler Perry's "Why did I Get Married?" because of lack of anything else to watch in the showcase. I lasted for exactly twelve minutes, then tuned it into the German-dubbed version (Lufthansa flight from Frankfort to LAX.) It was only then that I was able to listen to it, because I couldn't understand a word of it.

Until someone depicts poor black America well (and without Perry's undeserved, insufferable ego), I'd just as soon it wasn't done at all.

As a black girl I must say that anytime my choices are 'total crap' or 'no crap at all', I always choose no crap. It's a philosophy that's served me well lo these 29 years.

First off, I am having Obama's babies.

Second, my response got a bit long, so I posted on my site:

tyler-perry-face-of-black-america-groan

Hey Vermillion and Dustin:

Nice sentiment, I know where you're coming from, but I have $100 says Michele Obama can kick your asses into next week if you come on to her man. She looks like one tough woman, and I really hope to see her in the White House.

I'd have to agree with Mella on this one. While I don't represent a significant minority (Romanian immigrant, or if you prefer lumping all of us in together, Eastern European immigrant) I'm still more than a little sick of seeing Romanians depicted as either a) prostitutes b) terrorists or c) barely educated working class. I'd really just prefer not seeing ANY depictions of us if that's what we're going to get, so, I can sympathize to a certain degree. Knowing Hollywood, however, I think independent cinema is where we shall have to look for a realistic, intelligent, and in depth portrayal of Black America. They're too busy stuffing Eddie Murphy in another fat suit ...

Fuck Tyler Perry.

I miss Spike Lee. He needs to make more movies.

I have seen one Tyler Perry movie and I'm pretty sure it was enough. I felt it was my duty as a black woman to take a look at it and see what all of the fuss was about.

They could have left that foolishness on BET and saved everyone a few bucks, but there is a shortage of black people in the movies being directed by black people.

Tyler Perry's movies are badly made, preachy and insulting. But the most hurtful truth is that his movies are very close to being the only game in town. I see what he is trying to do and I appreciate the effort, I just don't like the way it's being done.

Hmm, I agree with you completely, Dustin. That's all for now.

I have nothing to say about the movie, I will say that up front.

But I will say that Obama's speech left me almost giddy. And I was giddily talking to a group of my coworkers (i'm white, the three of them are black) about how excited and giddy it made me to have a politician in this race who understood nuance and isn't afraid to talk to Americans as though they are adults. Someone who speaks clearly about complicated subjects...while still acknowledging their complexity.

well that's what I meant to say. What I really said was, "It so nice to have a politician who understands nuance, you know, he doesn't just see things as black and white!"

One of them had to leave he was laughing so hard.

My favorite movie of all time is Network. After this past week in which we had a politician talk to us like adults about race I finally had a moment of reflection. I think Perry is so very different than Spike, Spike wanted to question and explore race. Perry seems only to want to entertain at all cost. Although I've defended Perry many times in the past, I think enough is enough. I think Perry should stop being lazy and at least stop making his characters so stupid and superficial. To be honest I've not yet seen the Browns, and why should I.

My grandma listened and watched Amos n' Andy back in the day (40s on radio, 50s on television - they were well-to-do black folks, my grandaddy owned a cleaners) because it was a series about black people. Of course, it was caricatures of black people but black people just the same. Grandma was nothing like those characters. She was a proper school teacher who raised proper children. If my mother or uncle attempted to speak the way Amos or Andy spoke, well let's just say those were different times that called for punishments that would be considered harsh today.

The point is back then black folks craved to see themselves acknowledged by radio and TV no matter how poorly and/or stereotypically they were portrayed. It was nice to hear or see a black voice or face coming through the airwaves. You, as a black person, mattered.

I know that, even today, black audiences are underserved and relish the chance to be entertained. Fortunately, there are a few more outlets today that cater to those audiences however, most of the entertainment stays rooted in the the worst depictions of blacks and, with a few exceptions, lead right back to Amos n' Andy territory albeit with a "Christian" message.

Tyler Perry is just such a piss poor example of a writer/filmmaker/actor/producer but, God bless him, he is entertaining somebody and making them forget their worries for a few hours. He doesn't speak for the black community as a whole and I can just choose to ignore him - for sanity's sake.

If white people can live with Larry the Cable Guy (and believe me, I know he does not speak for the entire white community - just a select few) I suppose the black community won't buckle under the light weight of Tyler Perry.

Just know, Mr. Perry, that we are waiting for a talented writer/filmmaker/actor/producer to take your place. Until then, those of us who have higher standards in regards to entertainment will ignore everything you do.

Okay, that was just my ten cents. Sorry for the long post.

So is this site endorsing Obama now? Oh dear. Well, nobody's perfect I guess.

So Tyler Perry is black America's answer to Larry the Cable Guy? I say that we've put up with enough negative sterotyping and stupidity; we've earned the right to crack TP upside the head, stuff him in a steel drum, douse the fucker in gasoline, cram an oily rag into his mouth and light it on fire.

I've never seen any of Perry's movies, nor will I ever. Why? Because of those fucking "Madeah (sp?)" things. That's why. Unecessary drag...

"Bosom Buddies" - in drag because they were going for the apartment. "Tootsie" - for a job. "To Wong Foo..." - because that was thier thing. "Big Momma" - undercover cop. "White Chicks" - cops. Dame Edna - over-the-top schtick. Milton Berle - 'cause he's a fucking crackpot. Bea Arthur - because the show was "Golden Girls", not "Three Golden Girls & One Dude".

All I see (or think) when I see Tyler Perry is a guy dressing in drag for absolutely no reason. It has nothing to do with the plot or script. What I see is a guy dressing in drag (and fucking badly, at that) for the "gimmick-factor". And that makes him a douche, regardless of ethnicity or subject matter.

I had a Great Aunt that I suspected was a feller. And I'll be damned if that weren't a scraggly scrote I felt under those polyester capri's that hot August afternoon when we was makin' out in the Port-O-John. Maybe that has something to do with my distaste of Mr. Perry....

what jen310 said.

Looks like I put an apostrophe at the end of "capris"... That's just fantastic. Really making a strong presence for myself with shit like that...

"Meet the Browns" was AWESOME. It touches on subjects that WHITE PEOPLE are too afraid to talk about. And I am half asian and half white. So, yes, I know what I'm talking about. Instead of driving around in our SUVs and discussing the stock market and carpooling with our 15 kids and their friends to a random sporting event... Damn, life is NOT perfect. Dont' be afraid to watch the movie just because YOU GUYS are not used to hard times. The movie is GREAT. Much better than some damn cowboy flick about a redneck whose horse died and he runs out of liquor and Marlboro 100s. Thanks

Posted by: Skittimus Fuckupitus at March 22, 2008 10:00 AM

Skits, I am hungover as hell right now, and I just want to tell you that it always makes me giggle in my head like I'm on nitrous when any of the other little Skits make an appearance. Also, at the moment, it hurts the inside of my brain even to smile.

..wow. Thank god for the preview feature, y'all. Because I'm way too tired to function and hit 'enter' after my e-mail. Dur hur..

You know, I still have never seen any of Tyler Perry's films, but for some reason, in a certain small (primarily white. I only ever saw one or two black families in the year I lived there) southern Alberta town, they -loved- them. (I don't even want to think about how fast LtCG's films disappear off the shelves). So there must be -something- to them. Either that, or society has slipped another rung off the Lowest Common Denominator ladder.

Hell, I ripped a coworker a new asshole for telling me to 'git r done'. I hate that fat stupid motherfucker. Huff.

(And I hate to be nitpicky, but the Connors didn't actually win the lottery, it was all part of Roseanne's novel, since Dan died at the end of the previous season.)

"Looks like I put an apostrophe at the end of "capris"... That's just fantastic. Really making a strong presence for myself with shit like that..."

And with that, my morning coffee all over my lap. (If it helps, Skits, I almost spelled it 'coffe'.)

There you go again, Dustin, saying what I was going to say but better!

I think it's all about balance. Why can't "The Cosby Show" and "Good Times" be on the air at the same time? Why not show many different slices of Black American Pie in the same space and time? Why do we either have to be all one thing this decade, then all some other thing the next?

Skits, I am hungover as hell right now, and I just want to tell you that it always makes me giggle in my head like I'm on nitrous when any of the other little Skits make an appearance. Also, at the moment, it hurts the inside of my brain even to smile.

I am too hungover to have an original though, plus the keyboard clicking is WAY too loud, so...WORD to exactly what Sarina said.

Julie & Sarina: I'm so hungover I think I'm still drunk. And now I have to go to Easter dinner with the fam. So, it could be worse.

Having seen the majority of Perry's work, I can say he's had more hits than misses. My only point is that although you might not enjoy his brand of movie making. He should not be denied the opportunity to be as mediocre as other white directors are.

Obama 08

Pookie, either you're being very rational and polite today, or I'm still really fucked up from last night. Either way, I like it.

Sarina, sometimes when I up the dosage of my medication the voices in my head are silent just long enough for me to come up with a coherent thought.

Obama 08

As a black gay male, Tyler Perry offends me on many levels, but the thing that sickens me about him the most is the whole religious angle of his work. He's just a sex scandal waiting to happen.

You should know!

Ooh! Sex scandal. If only.. @@

I'm with Pookie-I've seen all of TP's films and he has had more hits than misses. For the most part, I don't see myself in some of his characters but so what? I'm black but that doesn't stop me from enjoying Asian films! If I had to wait until I felt like a movie TOTALLY spoke to me, I'd be waiting a looooong time. Whatever happened to that new urban renaissance of black directors- Matty Rich, John Singleton, Mario Van Peebles, Spike Lee, Rusty Cundieff, Ernest Dickerson,F. Gary Gray, etc.?

Well said, Dingles!! I agree. Thanks for a good rebuttal movie with Larry the Cable Guy - I forgot that crap even existed. Can't wait until I can do the same about TP.

Sorry, but the shameless political endorsement that took up an entire paragraph in a review for a crappy movie is beyond my comprehension.

It seems to me that in the last year this site has been less about quality scathing reviews and more about clever one-liners and quips designed to entertain the fast growing and ever so esoteric return commenters, who, if you ask me, effectively run the place now.

I mean, I like that kind of relationship between blog and viewer mind you, but when you devote an entire paragraph to essentially giving Obama written fellatio for no valid reason, then, well, you've lost my vote.

Movie reviewers are reporters, like it or not, and even though the level of quality unbiased reporting in this day and age in all mediums has fallen to shit, you could at least try to interject it with a little more tact.

Movie reviewers are reporters, like it or not,

Actually, Some Guy, they aren't. Since a movie review is essentially a person's opinion, they have no expectation of impartiality. In fact, being impartial is the antithesis to being a critic of any kind. If a movie reviewer was truly an unbiased reporter as you claim, then all they would write would simply be a plot synopsis.

As far as everything else you said, it was so inane that it causes me to resort to a Futurama-based quip: Bite my shiny metal ass.

Vermillion, you ripped Some Guy a new ass hole. You go boy!! or girl, or whatever you fancy yourself these days.

Movie reviewers are reporters, like it or not, and even though the level of quality unbiased reporting in this day and age in all mediums has fallen to shit, you could at least try to interject it with a little more tact.

Posted by: Some Guy at March 23, 2008 1:44 AM

--------------------------------------------------

I know I, get my news and political analysis from Rottentomatoes and Ain't It Cool, it's good to see Some Guy does the same.

*high five*

Vermil, you are absolutely right, a film reviewer should interject their opinion into their review. Their opinion of the film. In no way shape or form does a plug for obama add to or deserve to be in a film review. The entire paragraph about race relations in america and obama was nothing more than a chance to come out and jump on the almighty obama bandwagon and to let you all know as well. "I want to have that man's babies?" You call that quality reviewing?

(And why do you want his babies? Because of his spotty voting record and the the fact that he is the most liberal voting senator in congress? That'll sure unite the country! Can't wait! Never mind the fact that Obama hides behind his race everyday and in no way has done anything or will ever do anything to change that. The day he and everyone else stops referring to him as an "african-american," which he isn't, is the day that the man really makes changes in race in america. Obama falls into the same category as Halle Berry, who, when accepting her oscar, proudly proclaimed it to be a crowning achievment for african american women everywhere. That was right before they cut to the shot of her white mother sitting in the audience.)

Remember when Gene Shallot gave a review of brokeback mountain and described it as a movie seeking only to further the gay agenda? Remember how all the people out there called for his head and for his firing for including his personal politics into his review where they clearly had no place?

Same thing, although unlike those out there who wanted him fired for his poorly placed opinion that they dissagreed with, a standard liberal tactic, I just want the writers on this site to do their job a little better and with a little more class. I enjoy reading the sometimes scathing reviews, but I like to do so without pointless political interjections being dropped from above with no rhyme or reason. So sue me.

Now, Vermil, you and your buddies-in-arms can continue mental high-fiving you because of your oh so eloquent put down of me. Quoting bender "bending" rodriguez? Pure. Class.

Until this last week, it felt like edifying, eloquent, history-rippling speeches were a thing of my grandparents' time (especially in the present drought caused by Bush's mouth).
I haven't been an Obama supporter, but excluding his speech in any intelligent race-related discussion at this immediate time would be to make a biased stance against him and leave a gaping hole.
I've been fortunate to hear it in light of an English lit class that had us reading W.E.B. Du Bois and Harlem Renaissance authors, which most of us hadn't read, but left us much more enlightened & prepared to drink in Obama's words thirstily.
Anyway, one thing I like about Pajiba is that, in its monumental bitchiness, it doesn't narrow itself to just movie references, but uses other means & topics to widen its scope of attack.

And I like what jen310 said.

I just want the writers on this site to do their job a little better and with a little more class. I enjoy reading the sometimes scathing reviews, but I like to do so without pointless political interjections being dropped from above with no rhyme or reason. So sue me.

-----------------------------------------------

How about if instead of suing you, I give you a clue?

The people here here DON'T WORK FOR YOU. They are not here to give class to your classless existence, or to tailor their reviews to YOUR agenda.
If the "liberal view" offends you, or makes you feel "persecuted," why don't you high-tail it to some Newscorp run site, bubba. You don't pay anyone here to do jack. shit. They don't owe YOU or ME for that matter, a GOD DAMNED thing.

Quoting bender "bending" rodriguez? Pure. Class.

Thank you. I do try so hard.

But race relations isn't the real issue, is it? You just don't like Obama or anyone who supports him. But instead of just addressing it like a grownup, you go on this rant about being forced to read pointless political talk. It is merely an opinion on a website. Nobody is twisting your arm to vote for the man. As BarbadoSlim said, Pajiba doesn't owe you a damn thing. And to demand such acquiescence from them speaks of an arrogance that is becoming far too prevalent on the internet.

As far as your remark about Obama not being African American, well, there is no response. Because anyone arrogant enough to discount such a honest dissertation on race relations on the basis that the speaker isn't "black enough" has already lost any interest in fair and reasonable debate.

So I am leaving this alone, because it is disrespectful to the owners of this site to continue down the path of another pointless flame war. I sincerely hope you do find a movie review, here or elsewhere, more suited to your tastes.

P.S. If you could do me one favor, could you go and tell all those descendants of Sally Hemmings that they aren't African Americans, since they have a white ancestor? I am sure they will have tons of questions for you.

Well said BS. Honestly, if you don't want the "pointless political interjections" then get the hell out of Pajiba. I mean, it's just like Vermillion said earlier "Since a movie review is essentially a person's opinion, they have no expectation of impartiality."

A persons opinion mind you. If, while giving their opinion about the movie, they happen to give their opinion about something else that was fueled by the movie in some way, let them! If you read the reviews often you should know that every writer on Pajiba does it.

I agree, the level of non-movie related opinion has grown as time has moved on. But the website is growing, of course it's going to change. The writers aren't going to bend over backwards to please the minority that wants scathing reviews with no side bars when the majority of the commenters love the way this site is ran.

I would like to remind you of something: "Scathing reviews for bitchy people". Well guess what, that doesn't say "scathing movie reviews" does it? No! The scathing part branches out into everything! Politics, books, pet peeves, etc...!!! If you don't like that then get out of Pajiba! It's what this web site is! If you want a plain, unbiased review go to a site whose headline doesn't include the word "bitchy". We bitch, it's just the way it is here.

You have a problem with the commenter/writer relationship here? That's what makes this website what it is.

[Takes a deep breath] Happy Eater people.

*Easter

And whatever spelling errors I missed...

Some Guy, you think Vermillion was just going to sit quietly and take all that shit you wrote and not respond? This is Pajiba motherfucker!!! we don't take kindly to strangers coming here and talking shit. And as far as you not liking Barry, n***a please.

Obama O8

Someone explain the whole "most liberal senator" thing, anyways.. I mean, who's the "most conservative senator?" I mean, you aren't doing yourself favors by APPARENTLY pretending that liberalism is the worst thing ever, as opposed to conservatism being all great in and of itself, too, right? Why should I shrug off Orrin Hatch or whomever voting for flag-burning bans and gay marriage bans, but Obama, I'm supposed to freak out about, if he votes in the other direction? Is everyone supposed to think the same way? How about some perspective? It wouldn't kill you.

And from what I remember about Shallot, GLAAD, et al objected to him describing Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhall's role) as a sexual predator, as if gay men don't actually seek out each other honestly and have consensual relationships, they just rape one another. I mean, why SHOULDN'T they offended by that comment?

But, yeah, injecting political opinions in the form of "yay! Obama's cool!" into one's review may not be the most professional thing ever, but I get the feeling that if he was BASHING Obama in favor of McCain, you'd be all for it -- would that be "standard conservative behavior?" And where does Obama hide behind his race? He seems to lean towards inclusion in any speech and message he makes, and when did his having a white mother and a Kenyan father make him not an African-American, an American of African descent? He was born in the States, raised by his mom here.. Hey, my parents are Nigerian, and I was born here, raised in Atlanta all my life; I'm not black, too, right? When people see my brown face when I walk around, they're able to tell which tribe my parents are, right?

Maybe you need actual liberal friends, before Fox News and the rest of conservative media warp your mind even further. Good god.

That was a very well-thought out pile of utter horseshit. Tyler Perry is a hack. That he is a hack with brown skin doesn't make him any better. It might make him worse because while nobody thinks Larry the Cable Guy has anything to say about the socio-economic realities of poor, rural whites, Tyler Perry, by dint of not having anyone else in the conversation, is treated as though he's making some kind of cogent commentary on race in America. He isn't. He's a fucking hack. He makes me ashamed of my blackness. With every dollar he makes I'm forced to consider that the Klan might have a point.

Linda Blinda, *thank you* so much for writing what you did so that I didn't have to. I'm sick as a dog, and when I first came across Some Guy's post earlier today, I was all, "jesus christ, someone needs to school this boy, but my sinuses are killing me, and my throat feels like sandpaper, so I'll have to go take a nap and get back to this later. That was seriously one of the most ignorant comments I have read on Pajiba.

I just love how Some Guy thinks that slandering gays is comparable to praising Obama. And your comment on Halle Berry is just deplorable. She has a White mother so she's not African American? Give me a fucking break. I guess the fact that her father is Black means nothing? I think the real problem may be that you don't like to be reminded that she's African American because it makes it more difficult for your bigoted ass to see her as a sex object. I, too, am part Black and part White, but guess what people mostly see? The Black part. Get a clue.

It's always interesting when a film starts up a flame war that's remembered long after the film has faded from our consciousness. I don't even remember how many dresses Katharine Heigl wore. And it seems that the people posting here were the only ones who gave a flying fig about CAPTIVITY. And remember WICKER MAN? That was one epic flame war. 'How'd it get burned', indeed.

And whatever a person's stance on Obama is, at least we've all heard of him, I'm talking to you, DMX. What was that, anyway? How is a person that cognitively underdeveloped even live? Does he have people to remind him to breathe? Yeah, his criminal record means that he can't even vote, but the guy who's running for president is a loser. And I, as I'm sure probably all of you do, know lots of people who were before 1965. What an ungrateful slap in the face, to take the gift which so many fought for, and toss it aside with both hands.

So when behaviour like his is bolstered as some sort of seal of authenticity, do you have to wonder why modern-day minstrel shows are being peddled?

And before anyone calls 'foul', I'm really not being hyperbolic. After the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks joined in minstrelsy, and the highest-paid performers were drag acts. I'm not equating the two in severity, context, intent--anything like that. I have perspective.

I know that these mammy figures come from a tradition, and many factors have contributed to it becoming accepted. And hey, I love and grew up with British comedies (they show tons of it on basic cable here), and you can't keep pants on those guys. So, I guess if there is a difference, it's in the fact that in so many ways-- many of which aren't even apparent to us because they are so ingrained -- black women have been/are told that they're not attractive. So it goes, right? Whatever, fine. But when black men get in the act, it's really defeating. I think my question is, how do these guys justify making their careers on out degradation?

I'm not even going to say 'like it not', because I don't know anyone who likes this, but since women are still judged (not entirely, but primarily, yes) by their looks, when your appearance--fuck, existence is anathema to what's 'valuable', you're caught between a rock and boulder. And then there's a slab on granite sitting on your chest.

Bring this up to anyone, and you're a race-baiter, or a feminazi. Because people aren't entitled to their feelings. If you bring this up, you're too self-centred to believe that this is a real issue, when there are so many billions of people who are suffering, really suffering. I know, we know. So, we sublimate those anxieties, because it's not as important.

In one tiny little way, theoretically, it's actually liberating. The 'pressure' is kind of off, right? Why bother getting into the ring, when the fight is already rigged against you? Maybe you should go out for ice cream instead. You can devote your time to more impressive endavours-- except the knot's still there. As much as caucasian ladies endure the beauty standard, imagine adding being a minority to it.

Am I going to be a victim? Hella no! What's the problem here? Not pretty enough? Boo-hoo. So, when you can't look to the outside for validation (which ideally people wouldn't do under any circumstances, but we do), you give your inner resources a good workout. Inner strength and shit. Don't take this to mean that I think white women can't or don't develop these things, I don't think that. But you take acceptance from where you it, and we simply don't have that.

I'm sure this is what contributes to the notion that black women are belligerent, castrating succubi. Not my personality, but that's why it's called a stereotype. All things considered, we're sick of hearing shit, and divorcing yourself from the...well, from the way that the world is gets tiring.

Hulkamania '08.

Hey, *before I forget* Bender the offender doesn't need YOU! Bender the offender doesn't need anybody!

I can't speak for everyone here, but I specifically come here for the well written reviews AND comments. Pajiba functions as a forum for everything and anything I could ever possibly be interested in. The fact that some of you are hysterical is pretty much the best icing on the cake ever. So I don't mind if we go off topic, in fact I encourage it.

Most Liberal Senator 2008 - Barack Obama

Most Conservative Senator 2008 - Jim Bunning

Best Smile - Joseph Biden

Class Clown - Ron Wyden

Best Couple - Jon Kyl and Joh McCain

Most Likely to Succeed - Barack Obama

Most Likely to be Late to a Session - Chuck Hagel

Best Name - (tie) Orrin hatch and Max Baucus

Most Likely to be Seen Making Out in the Halls - Elizabeth Dole and Lisa Murkowski (Hot Girl/Girl!!)

And the ONLY reason Best Name is a tie is because Max Baucus sounds like he's be a Swedish Strong-Man competitor, and I don't want him to squish me. Orrin Hatch...cuz 1. Even though he predates the movie by birth, he is named after the effing medallion in Neverending Story and 2. because his name sounds like a place i would want to stick my penis if i wanted strangers to lick it anonymously.

I think you do want him to squish you. And on a more serious note, why would you want your penis to be anywhere near Orrin Hatch?

Obama O8

So our local rag printed a letter from some nutjob implying that Obama is the Anti-Christ. I hope this derangement is contained to my own backwards-ass corner of the U.S. but I fear it's not. I was checking out some of the earlier items on stuffwhitepeoplelike and was really depressed by the racist vitriol contained in the comments section of the Barack Obama entry. There are crazy stupid people out there. Makes some goober who thinks this site is supposed to be "professional" and "unbiased" seem pretty harmless in comparison.

Obama/Richardson '08!

I don't want my penis near Orrin Hatch. It is no longer a tie. Max wins.

Nice Comment biscuits, but I really don't want speedy gonzalez on Obama's ticket. He might fuck it up.

Obama 08

If I may, there's a very easy way to determine whether somebody is Black or White. Take the fame angle away from Obama, Tiger Woods, Halle Berry, etc. Ask any of them to talk an innocent walk in my neighborhood after dark and watch to see how quickly the local cops pull them over and ask for ID while they let all the White people stroll on. It's really not about ancestors: it's about the assumptions most people make when they see a black face where they don't expect one.

Excellent point about Perry's work. I don't like his movies, and I even tried the tv show he has, but they just aren't good. However, these movies and shows could serve as a way for another black filmaker to get their message heard.

Was talking about Tyler Perry with some of my coworkers (very multicultural office) and someone wondered when an Asian or Latino Tyler Perry would come along and break up their stereotypes. There's only so many times you can have the gang banger with the heart of gold or the smart Asian kid.

One drop, people. Read your history books if you're going to start in on who's African-American.

Pookie: I really don't want speedy gonzalez on Obama's ticket. He might fuck it up.

Oh no, you din't.

Damn, looks like I missed one hell of a shitstorm. Even got into who's black and who's not. Ah, well. I have no doubt that TP will be making plenty of movies in the future, so I'll be sure not to miss the next one. Shitstorm, that is.

The answer to the question "why is Tyler Perry's bad filmmaking being partly excused as 'opening dialouge' and, 'at least covering a demographic no one else wants to cover?'" is because, every time a film critic HONESTLY AND UNABASHEDLY critiques this guy's movies, his Borg Collective of a fanbase comes out of the woodwork and starts spewing invective, pretty much shutting down the conversation. Let's face it: no one wants hordes of angry black people accusing you of racism and cultural ignorance, so Rowles and every other film critic is no longer allowed to do their jobs when it comes to a Perry film. If you think I exaggerate, look up Ebert's review of "Diary of a Mad Black Woman." For whatever reason, Ebert was called all sorts of horrible names, and accused of "typical white ignorance of black culture," and other, nice pleasant shit, all because he didn't like this guy's movie (which is weird, in a way, because Perry hadn't even directed that one). Ebert, apparently, is supposed to know anything and everything about a writer and a director before he's allowed to make opinions, he's supposed to give a shit about movies based off of chitlin-circuit plays and have different standards based on who the guy is, even when *I* didn't even know who the hell this guy was until he blew up in film, and I've been in Atlanta all my life.

No one would be practicing double standards towards Perry films versus every other crap film Hollywood comes out with, year in and year out, if it weren't for his horrible fans. Blame the zombies for lacking the objectivity to be able to handle dissent from the mainline.

That said, I'm a little relieved that my previous post was as well-received as it was. I'm scared of being flamed, although I should be stupid not to expect one. :(

I wonder if people ever get tired of having the same conversation 50 times?

A few things:
B-Slim, you write: "You don't pay anyone here to do jack. shit. They don't owe YOU or ME for that matter, a GOD DAMNED thing."

Go back to the main page and tell me what all of those things are on the sides of it. You know, the pictures advertising books, movies, products, etc. etc. They are what we call Advertisements. Internet sites, like Pajiba, thrive on them. They are what make the internet world go round. Now, I visit this site several times a day to read the articles and comments, and everytime I do a little counter goes *click* and shows that someone visited the site. The more clicks, the more people, the more advertisers look to your site, the more money your site makes from adertisements.

So yes, actually, they do owe me something, because if you or me or everyone else stopped coming here, the site would cease to exist.

Vermil: "You just don't like Obama or anyone who supports him."

I don't like Obama because he is inexperienced and untrustworthy. THe media adores him and has given him a free pass, as have most of his suporters. There is simply not enough known about the guy to sing such strong praises. The incident with the Rev. Wright is the first signs of such things.

I have no problem with people who support Obama, or anyone for that matter. Your opinion is your opinion, and I try to do my best to accept it for what it is. What I loathe are supporters, of any kind, mind you, who feel the need to profess their support to anyone who will listen, whether they have a choice or not.

And I don't think Obama is "not black enough," I just wish he, and halle berry, would recognize the fact that their sucesses in life should be for more than just what color they chose to adhere to. Halle's award should not have been about black women everywhere, it should have been about women.

Obama should not have thrown his white grandmother under a bus in defense of a pastor of a church which has racist ideologies. You can't choose a grandmother, but you damn well can choose you church.

Little: "I, too, am part Black and part White, but guess what people mostly see? The Black part. Get a clue."

Sorry, friend, but unlike most people I do my best to see you as both. Same with halle berry, same with obama. They both owe who they are to whiteness, too. The fact is, they are black because they chose to be black and because long-time racist traditions in this country still run about. On both sides.

Kay: "We bitch, it's just the way it is here.
You have a problem with the commenter/writer relationship here? That's what makes this website what it is."

Wait, so what was I doing, exactly, if not bitching? I see, everyone else is allowed to bitch on this site, so long as it is in accordance to what everyone else is bitching about? Are you saying my bitching on a self-proclaimed bitchy site is unwelcome? Am I too bitchy, not bitchy enough, or do you just not enjoy what my bitching has to say?

And i do enjoy the writer/commenter relationship, I just don't like it when the writers start to pander to the commenters. Cause then people come here, see a site who devotes itself to its commenters, and feels left out because they have no idea what the commentors or writers are talking about. Esoteric is the word I believe I used.

The end result, of course, is a place where people write in to congratulate their friends for flaming someone with a crappy one-liner.

And then we all lose.

Wow, that is long. Responding to three people takes up space, sorry.

McDonald's secret sauce is actually: ketchup, mayonnaise AND relish...so maybe not everyone knows the secret.

Good catch on the advertisers there, SG. Except all that means is the site owes the ADVERTISERS revenue. It has nothing to do with you or where you choose to click or not click. No one is forcing YOU as an individual to be here; if you don't like it, go spend your clicks somewhere else.

I think you're reading a whole lot into the minor Obama paragraph in the review (and it's not even the whole paragraph). You want to see the whole review as a political endorsement, yet it is just as easily interpreted as commentary on how America talks or doesn't talk about race. Your comments are pretty clear how you would prefer race to be swept under the table (Halle Berry's Oscar as a victory for white women?? Hmm??) but that's both ignorant and unrealistic.

And this is my first comment on this site, ever. So much for pandering to the commenters.

Jay,

The advertisers come here because of the readers. It's the same with TV. No viewers, no advertisers. I am not owed anything but good articles that keep me coming back. Which I do.

And I never saw the whole review as an endorsement, nor did i say so. I merely stated that the diversion from film review to critique of Obama's speech and a general endorsement of him was unnecessary, especially in light of the fact that not all readers on this site might like Obama.

And how are you gathering that i want race swept under the table? That would be to ignore its presence. I merely wish that someone who is half black and half white feel it appropriate to thank both sides, not just the side they choose to be which hapens to garner the most attention.

Now on a side note, think about what might happen if Obama were to take his elderly white grandmother and mother to his church. How would the congregation respond?

If he isn't at all ashamed of the way that his church presents his mother and grandmother, being white americans, then the guy has no class.

Posted by: Some Guy at March 24, 2008 6:52 PM

I do not agree with you, but I respect the fact that you are willing to stand behind your argument.

*respect*

Some Guy, I think you're confused, Obama has already signed his grandmother's good white folk papers.

Some Guy, prepare to be vetted or possibly swift boated.

Some Guy, didn't you get arrested for drunk driving last year.

Pookie, you should leave him alone. He's in AA and he's trying to turn his life around. I had a close friend of mine lose his family because they told him to get help and he refused. I think Some Guy should be congratulated for his sobriety.

I havent' read all the comments, so maybe someone else has already said this, but few people in Hollywood depict poor people of any color well. Po' folk are mostly played for laughs on TV and in the movies. And I'm OK with that, for the most part. I think "My Name Is Earl" is hilarious, and in its way, more realistic in its depiction of po white trash than most Hollywood product is. Most people don't want to watch reality. They live it, they don't want to watch it on TV or in the movies. The depiction of the "lower class" in our culture almost always comes down in one of two categories: 1) idealized, showing poor folk as inherently more noble and down to earth than rich people or 2) as idiots, racists and/or criminal scumbags. But I don't expect sensitive, realistic depictions of anyone from Hollywood.

I agree Tyler Perry shows black people in stereotypical ways, but he probably thinks that's the best way to entertain people while trying to inject what he hopes are positive messages. Nobody wants to pay $8 to see a sermon. I'm not excusing the stereotyping, esp. of black women, but that may be why characters are such, well, caricatures. I think Eddie Murphy has more to answer for in this regard than Tyler Perry does. I ask again: How the fuck did "Norbit" get made? I'm not black or overweight, and I was offended by the commercials for that piece of sewage.

Obama should not have thrown his white grandmother under a bus in defense of a pastor of a church which has racist ideologies. You can't choose a grandmother, but you damn well can choose you church.

Umm, when did he do this? Because from the speeches and such I have heard, he roundly denounced the reverend's remarks and never discounted his white relatives. And not once has he played up on his "blackness". In fact, he has gone through great pains to avoid it. In fact, he made the very point you brought up. He couldn't choose his family, but he did choose his church. And he respected the reverend, even though he didn't agree with him. He also no longer attends that church. He didn't throw anyone under the bus. So what is the problem exactly? Is it that he didn't say "Wright is a racist, and is completely wrong"? That would have been pandering bullshit.

The thing is, you seem to have a clear bias against the man, and it is coloring (pun unintentional) your view on anything related to him. And normally, that would be your deal. But now you are pretty much putting words into folks' mouths and brining up subtext that nobody inetended and seems to develop from out of nowhere.

I just have one real question: did you watch or hear the speech he did in response to the Wright issue? And if you did, what parts were so offensive? I really would like to know, because it seems that you are getting a completely different message than I or many others here.

All I can say is this... I can trust a candidate who smokes. It makes no sense I know, but there's something about the fact that if he's having a rough day he'll smoke a butt, gather himself, and get back to work. It makes him seem more "everyman-ish." We all know it's bad for you. We all know what it does over the long term. But he made the choice. Just like he was honest in his book about trying certain drugs. i get the idea that he doesn't want to hide anything from th voters. And if a problem comes up, or a difficult topic (Wright for example) he doesn't pander to anyone. he doesn't use double-speak. He states how he feels and that's that. I can't deny a candidate who faces adversity head-on. As opposed to sayyy...a former first lady who is herself EQUALLY INEXPERIENCED in a true political role. Granted, the first lady and Ms. overnor positions carrty with them the assumption of certain responsibilities, but they REQUIRE none of it. She could have spent her time in DC with Bill redecorating the White House, but she CHOSE to take on some things. But (mind you Bill Clinton was the mothereffing BOMB DIGGITY in my book) when Whitewater arrose, she dodged bullets. When her husband cheated on her, she remained in her robotic 'political wife' form. If she had even made a statement saying 'Wow...Bill...that was a dick move hon,' I would have more for her. but she didn't. Barack seems like the type of dude who would tell his wife she was being a bit of a bitch if she ever got down with someone else in the bedroom.

Shit...I got off my topic. Whatever. Dude just seems like he's willing to put everything he can in front of the public eye, almost demysitfying the idea of the presidency, or any political position. He'd just be a regular guy who strived for a position of power who knows what it's like to experience an illegal substance (the ONLY people who are allowed to have an opinion on the topic in my book), who knows what it's like to bust his ass to improve himself, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yeah, I smoke. i know it's bad for me. Accept me for who I am.'

I'm done preaching. Eff this. Some Guy is just the other kind of douchebag on comment boards. He's best friends with the dickhead who always posts 'FIRST!!'. He's the asshole who likes to pick fights in the thread. Some Guy...think of it this way. Arguing on a comment board is like trying to prove you're the smartest retard; at the end of the day...you're still retarded.

I guess it wouldn't be something that you would want to see, because YOU can't relate. Also, you may want to check the ratings that his movie Meet The Browns received. You may want to fall back on giving your opinion on OUR movies!!

I've been visiting this site since its beginning and lost countless hours reading comment threads. For what it's worth, Some Guy, the reviewer's gushing over Obama didn't bother me, but I agree with you about how the dynanimcs of this site have been changing, so to speak. And I appreciate your taking the time to eloquently express yourself, so that lurkers like me don't have to.

YOU CAN'T RELATE TO THIS MOVIE SO OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T LIKE IT.

And to think we almost managed a Tyler Perry review without someone accusing the reviewer of not relating to the movie concerned and therefore being blind to its awesomeness! Glad we cleared that little problem up by the time I got here.

Quick question: Can I pay for the site to be run please? I think it'd be neat-o to have my own personal army of reviewers - with that amount of power I could achieve almost anything. Why, I could single handedly win Dane Cook and oscar. Or something. Of course the wonders of the free market means that none of you would have to read my utopian vision of Pajiba and my horrifyingly offensive regime would be over before it could begin. I'm pretty sure I had a point about advertising before I started that paragraph. I'm sleep deprived and awfully confused at the moment. Yes "sleep deprivation" that's exactly what this is.

Anyway! Point. Yes. Politics. Right.

I must admit I barely noticed the reviewer's Obama related endorsement in the main body of text. I think that's partly because I'm used to, oh I don't know, pretty much every single piece of semi-intelligent commentary I read having some reference to the election. So Dustin's an Obama supporter, I'm pretty sure that's his personal opinion rather than pandering to the views of the commenters. But I could be wrong. If enough of us decided we loved Michael Bay do you think we could whip up some positive reviews for his cinematic masterpieces? No? Shame.

PissBoy: Interesting point on the social structure of internet message boards. I of course see myself as the irritating poster who constantly reminds others of her status as a female on the internet. Or I would be if people didn't keep assuming I was a dude. Damned androgynous name. Would you be the slightly dangerous cool kid with the pyrotechnics obsession and a vendetta against all that is small, fluffy and squirrel related?

All that aside the main reason I'm posting: Pookie decided to stop blindly defending Perry. a) the world didn't spin off its axis and b) I must now begin the search for my new favourite Pajiban troll. This makes me sad and a little apprehensive

Thanks for the kind words Alex the uninteresting. I assure you I've not blindly stop defending Perry, at this point in time my rants are starting to take a toll on me. My reality is so very different from yours, you've become a part of that group in society that sucks on the nipples of ordinary and plain. Your quest to be different is really a cry to be noticed. Pajiba is a place, a shelter for the shy and timid to speak without protest. Many who have questioned me concerning my favor of Perry fail to understand what he's trying to accomplish, so I'm not surprised by your attacks on me. Your thoughts are at best a comedy of errors displayed for all to see in this corner of the web. I grow weary of my own existence in this place that is run by mediocrity , my earthly coil ravaged by toxins, disease and corruption. Your thoughts will be your undoing.

movies that are good ghetto movies find it had to get distrubition.here is a man who has found a way to get hollywood to distrubute his movies so cut him some slack for that.they are good movies dispite what you think.you have the right to feel the way you do.check out the the trailer of a black movie the way you want to see them check www.robbinindahood.com or watch the trailer on youtube.hard core truthful comedies like that sometimes find it difficult to find distrubition so you never get to see them.find out more about unreleased black films before you shot down tyler perry.
charles

Would you be the slightly dangerous cool kid with the pyrotechnics obsession and a vendetta against all that is small, fluffy and squirrel related?

...complete with the pack of Reds rolled up in the sleeves baby. ;)

Personally, I would prefer to just read the bitchy reviews and leave out the political crap. Just fucking entertain me, damnit!

When I first saw a Tyler Perry videotape which was a play, I died laughing after I fast forwarded through the gospel singing and preaching. Thereafter, I watched mostly all of them. Then I saw Diary of a Black Woman and I thought, well, we all need a Madea in our lives and really, your great grandmother or grandmother depending what year she was born and what the situation called for, has a 'little' Madea in her - mine were born 1914 and late 1920 respectively. I knew both my great grandmother and my grandmother at the same time; my grandmother was a minister but I recall one Halloween someone shook the daylights out of one of us and stole our candy (back in the day when kids werent shooting one another). We told my grandmother about it, everybody in the neighborhood knew her. She walked us all down to the neighbors house whose parents were nastier than their kids. She introduced herself very calmly and said that she knew there must be a misunderstanding and if in the future there was any problems with her grandkids, the parents should come see her. Well, she briefly shifted at the door and I thought I saw my grandmother do 'something' but what I didn't know what. Later, she told us she flashed a machete my uncle who lived in New York sent to her from his trip to Africa. Proper? Nope. Common occurrence among all black folks? Doubt it. But who cares? A Machete carrying minister of a grandmother - it happened to us.

I've lived in the midwest, east coast and Texas (a country all its own) and the West Coast. Last year, me and my husband migrated down south to live. If you want an more accurate view of what its like to live here among black folks, take the Cosbys, any Tyler Perry movie and a Different World and you'll come somewhere in the neighborhood. The south as a whole is as diverse as the entire country put together. I've personally met folks who are just like the Browns and then I've also met some very intellectual folks as depicted in the Cosbys and mostly everyone's kids to some degree, including those in our family, are off to college with the few who 'just won't do right'. So my thought is why are black folks depicted as only one particular way at any one time?