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Resurrection

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (169)



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I’d hoped going into this episode that the title — “What Kate Does” — would mean that we’d get to explore something different in Kate’s past in the non-crash timeline, since the second season’s “What Kate Did” was all about how she murdered her father who she’d thought was her stepdad and loved the stepdad she’d learned wasn’t her real father. (And to think, back then that passed for a genuine WTF moment on “Lost;” how times do change.) But it turns out the episode was mainly a chance to bring Claire back into the fold, which I guess was long in coming. The last time she was seen was hanging with Christian/the Enemy in Jacob’s cabin, but that was a few years and several major twists ago. Still, a decent episode with some interesting turns.

The Los Angeles Timeline
Things are still moving pretty quickly in the non-crash 2004 for Kate as she does her best to flee LAX and the pursuing marshal, Edward Mars. She hops into a cab with a gun and tells the driver to speed off, though it turns out Claire’s already in the cab and now understandably concerned about getting shot. There’s a moment before the cab can escape the LAX arrivals concourse when Kate looks out the window and sees Jack and has a weird moment of recognition, and this is going to be telling. She’s not remembering him from some dream, and it’s not merely a chance for them to see each other free from the sweaty pseudo-romantic constrains of their time on the island. Both timelines are equally important and, to an extent, equally real. The low, rumbling whoosh that preceded flashbacks and flashforwards for years has been replaced by the screechier sound that Sawyer and crew dealt with when they were bouncing through time. This, as with many things on the show, is not an accident. The timelines themselves are shifting, conflicting, and might wind up bleeding into each other. Either way, it will be big.

Anyway, the cab driver bails at the first light and Kate hops into the driver’s seat, keeping Claire’s purse before dropping her off and driving away. She drives to a random body shop and has the vaguely criminal-looking mechanic pop her cuffs. (The guy was played by Jeff Kober, known to some [well, me] as the evil magic-peddling demon Rack in the sixth season of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.” What a random, recognizable face for such a bit part. I kept trying to place him in the “Lost” timeline, then realized he’s just a popular character actor.) Kate finds the baby stuff in Claire’s bag, and then two insane things happen that are improbable even by “Lost” standards: (1) Kate drives back and finds Claire just magically, and (2) Kate doesn’t change cars. She takes the same cab that took her from LAX! The one that’s now probably reported as stolen! For such a feisty con, she’s terrible at this. Everybody knows you change cars, lady. Do it in a parking garage so air surveillance can’t see.

Kate gives Claire a ride to the Brentwood home of the folks who are going to adopt her baby, but the woman says her husband just left her and her life’s too “complicated.” Kate looks like she’s about to pistol-whip this chick when Claire of course goes into labor. They rush to the hospital and are treated by — wait for it — Ethan Rom! I mean, Ethan Goodspeed, who left the island as a kid (or never went?) and is now a normal OB/GYN and not a kidnapping psycho. The dissonance of seeing him legitimately caring for her, as opposed to drugging her and taking her to the Staff Station in the jungle, is pretty fun. Claire lost the baby’s heartbeat for a second and cried so frantically I forgot how much I hated when she and Mercutio Michael seemed to be locked in a shouting match about their sons. But everything was fine, even though she blurted out that the baby’s name was Aaron despite not having picked a name yet. Kate held her hand and helped her out, so in return, Claire covered a few minutes later when Feds came and Kate hid in the next room. (Maybe they tracked the stolen cab, amateur.) Claire gives Kate her credit card, and they part on weirdly friendly terms for a killer and new mom who met three hours earlier.

The Island Timeline
Back up in the 2007 where Oceanic 815 did indeed tumble out of the sky, things are also pretty bananas. Miles is giving Sayid a nervous look (maybe he can’t tell if there’s any soul there?) when Lennon summons Sayid for a chat with the ninja warlord that will likely not go well. (N.B. Lennon is played by John Hawkes, who in addition to acting is also a member of the band King Straggler, a fun alt-countryish combo. For added weirdness, one of his bandmates was on/in “California Dreams.” Truth.) Jack picks a fight that’s broken up when Sawyer steals a gun and bails to go be alone with his pain, kind of like Footloose, and the warlord agrees to let Kate and Jin go after him if they take a couple Others along as guides. In a fun callback to the second season, one of the guards is Rob McElhenney from “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia,” who uses the M.A.C. system to keep an eye on Kate.

When they go, Sayid is tortured by the Others, who shock him and then burn him with a hot poker. There’s a moment that recalls The Empire Strikes Back when Sayid is returned to his friends and simply says, “They didn’t ask me any questions.” Jack confronts the warlord, whose name is Dogen, about his questionable hospitality, and is then told that he needs to get Sayid to take a pill that will heal him. Calling shenanigans, Jack tries to take the pill himself to see what happens, and Dogen jumps in and knocks him around, taking the pill back. Dogen admits the pill’s true contents: poison. Way to go, Jack. Lennon is incredulous that Jack actually tried to take the pill, and the dire situation finally gets the Others to start parceling out some info. Dogen attempts to describe Sayid’s condition, but can’t in English; Lennon says the closest translation is “claimed.” Dogen says there’s a darkness in Sayid that will work its way to his heart and then completely own him, leaving no trace of the man Jack knows. When Jack asks how Dogen knows all this, Dogen drops the bomb: “Because it happened to your sister.” WHAT. In that line, Dogen reveals a world of potential plot, including his time spent with Claire or learning of her, as well as what she’s been up to and why.

Out on their jungle quest, Kate knocks out the guards with a trap they find in the woods that looks like something Rousseau would set, except for that Rousseau died three years earlier. Plus, one of the guards almost spills who built the trap but is shut down by Mac. Jin wants to find Sun, and Kate wants to go after Sawyer, so she leaves him and sets off for the Barracks, which I guess is where she figured he’d go. (That, or like her alternate timeline driving back to Claire, she’s just really good at lucking into these things.) She arrives at the Barracks to find it still pretty wrecked, and sees Sawyer digging up a shoebox from the floorboards of his old bedroom, where he’d lived 30 years earlier. It becomes clear right away that he’s in no mood to be comforted, and Kate’s growing awareness of her uselessness is some of the most growing she’s done in a while. Down at the pier, Sawyer confesses he was going to propose to Juliet and blames himself for her death, since he’d asked her to stay in the first place. “I think some of us are meant to be alone,” he says, chucking the ring he never got to give Juliet into the water before walking away. Kate weeps as she finally, finally realizes just how far she is from having the man she loves.

Meanwhile, Jin stops at a stream when he’s ambushed by Mac and the other guard, now considerably pissed off and ready to kill. Jin is saved by rifle fire that takes down both men, and he looks to the ridge above him to see … Claire! She’s dirty and holding a rifle and definitely looking like the reincarnation of Danielle Rousseau. So that’s where she’s been.

And that’s that. For as flat as the episode was in parts — unless Kate’s getting a harsh lesson in how terrible she is, I’m not a big fan — it offered up some fantastic plot points and raised some interesting questions. To name but a small few, and in no order: What’s up with Sayid? Is he possessed by the same evil entity that is, in whole or part, related to the smoke monster/Enemy? If yes, will he die again or just become an agent of the island, working for the Enemy, who is currently dressed as Fake Locke? If no, well, what’s in him? And what good or evil fragment of the island dwells in Ben Linus, who was saved in the Temple as a boy? Also, when Jin was gonna get shot, one of the guards talked Mac down by saying Jin might be “one of them.” What does that mean? Then there’s Claire. Last we saw, she woke up in the jungle to see Christian holding Aaron, and was then found by Locke a little later when he met up with Christian in Jacob’s cabin. Now, it obviously wasn’t Christian, but pretty much very likely the Enemy just being hilarious and deceptive, and Claire was already acting freakishly calm and uninterested. Was she already “claimed” to some degree? Why has she become not just a survivor, but the new Rousseau? Claire was with Sawyer and Miles when they found the corpses of Rousseau and Karl, and Miles heard their spirits screaming, which is how he knew to look for the bodies. Is it possible some part of Rousseau is in Claire? If the Enemy can take the shape of anyone dead on the island, can the souls of the dead make themselves known through the living?

Also, seriously: Who’s the kid in that damn Olive Garden commercial about a twentysomething guy and his grandfather? I swear he’s a child actor, but I can’t place him. Help me, oh Pajiban hive mind.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

Didn't read the summary yet, because I didn't get to watch last night, and this show is too good to spoil.

Hopefully there will still be some discussion going after I watch tonight.

Posted by: Drake at February 10, 2010 11:36 AM

The dissonance of seeing him legitimately caring for her, as opposed to drugging her and taking her to the Staff Station in the jungle, is pretty fun.

How odd, because I got the vibe (in the Island days) that Ethan did genuinely care for her, or at least for Aaron. Their health and well-being would be very telling to the future of the Island, wouldn't it? And Ethan always seemed to be a good guy, who just so happened to kick-ass when necessary.

Off to read the rest...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 11:45 AM

Jack takes the pill himself to see what happens, and despite Dogen’s attempt at the Heimlich, he gets it down. Then he finds out what’s in it: poison.

I thought I saw Dogen pick it up off of the floor, post-Heimlich...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 11:48 AM

Yeah, I thought he spat it out and Dogen picked it up.

Posted by: qtp2t at February 10, 2010 11:49 AM

:"(1) Kate drives back and finds Claire just magically, and (2) Kate doesn’t change cars. "
RIGHT? That's what I thought!

i still find ethan rom/goodspeed to be super-f'n-creepy.

i thought his heimlich worked and jack spit out the pill?
.(..the recap episodes they run beforehand are helpful for that very reason. after initially absorbing the show, you can then really inspect it for details. like, last night i read juliette's lips as she died & she did indeed mouth, 'it worked'. so miles does have skills, yet he seems super sketched out...can't wait to see what is really happening!)

glad this kate episode is out of the way. less her-more everybody else, please.

Posted by: gem at February 10, 2010 11:53 AM

In re: the poison pill: You're right, Jack did indeed spit it out. Sorry about the mix-up.

Posted by: Daniel Carlson at February 10, 2010 11:55 AM

It's becoming more and more clear to me that LOST is all about choices. Think about it - Jacob and the Man in Black's game continues and continues, because the people involved keep making the wrong choices. So they keep trying, and for whatever reason the same people have to make the right choices for it to end finally (or at least in this version of the game).

This episode was entirely about choices for me - Sayid had to choose to take the poison pill, and Jack had to choose to give it to him. In LA Kate chose to go back to help Claire, who then chose to protect her when the detectives showed up. And Jacob has always been about choices - he said as much to Ben before Ben stabbed him in "The Incident."

So, what does it all mean? Are Jacob (wherever he is) and the Man in Black somehow still battling over the souls (or whatever) of the chosen few (the people on the list)?

And it seems that only people who have died on (or off) the island who have NOT been buried have come back. Remember when Ethan's mom was frantic about burying her husband? And when Richard demanded the body of the Other who had died in Dharmaville? Maybe the island's earth acts as some sort of protection against "claiming."

OK, I've got to go to a budget hearing now that my brain's been sufficiently fried by LOST.

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 11:59 AM

There's been a lot of debate amongst Lost fans whether this episode was filler or not.

In my opinion, every Kate-centric episode is filler. Her backstory is so incredibly boring and when we weren't examining her alternate timeline the rest of the episode consisted of Jack asking what was in the pill. Seriously, I don't think Daniel's recap did (or even could) do justice to how long THAT scene was played out.

That being said, I enjoyed the dock scene between Sawyer and Kate but only because it was a huge slap-in-the-face moment for Kate. I'm also glad we got a brief glimpse into what the hell has been going on with Claire. she's definitely the new Rousseau.

Also I'm glad I got to hear "My BAAAAAAAAABY" one more time.

Posted by: citizen_cris at February 10, 2010 12:00 PM

I don't think it was so magical that Kate found Claire - it looked like she was sitting at a bus stop bench. If it wasn't a bus stop, it was at least a bench right near the airport, and Claire (being pregnant) wasn't going to traipse around. But the silliness is that Kate wouldn't have noticed Claire's huge belly when they were together in the back seat.

I'm trying to work out my thoughts on Smokey and Sayid and Claire and the MIB. The more I've thought about last week's episode and how MIB had to walk away and come back, both to change into and back from being Smokey - maybe it isn't that simple? If MIB just is Smokey (as he said to Ben, "Sorry you had to see me like that."), why didn't he just change in front of Ben? That seems odd to me. Now we have Sayid with some infection growing inside him - is it that there are multiple Smokeys, or little Smokey babies that can grow inside a dead person? And does this then mean that Claire was killed (by who?) back when she disappeared? That certainly makes sense, since she wouldn't have left Aaron alone of her own volition. I do think that it was likely MIB in the form of Christian who was sitting with Claire in the cabin last season. I think we have to dig further to figure out if Smokey is more than one entity. We also have the Smokey who showed mercy to both Eko and Ben. Is there a good Smokey (working for Jacob)?

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 12:06 PM

Kolby, consider my world rocked. I hadn't given any thought to the healing power of the earth. I sure they hope they buried Juliet sufficiently, because as much as I want to see her again, I don't want to see her get deservedly capped. Plus, from the preview of next week's ep, it looks like NotLocke will manipulate Sawyer, which would be the perfect use of NotJuliet.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 12:07 PM

Kolby, I agree about the burying thing - completely significant.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 12:08 PM

If by showed Eko mercy, you mean bludgeoned him to death, then yes, Smokey did that.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 12:11 PM

I don't think that this ep brought up any questions that were not already posed in the previous 2. Dogen did bring up the "sickness," but he cannot be trusted, IMO. That always seemed to be a red herring.

One cool thing that was brought to my attention is that the date of the ultrasound done on Claire is something like 2 weeks after the original flight 815 (the one that crashed). Don't know if it's going to be significant, but I guess we never know what will be.

Ditto on the thought that this seemed to be a filler-type ep. That could be because I find both Kate and Claire to be the weakest characters. Still captivating and riveting, however.

Posted by: logar at February 10, 2010 12:19 PM

I second Dan's question on the Olive Garden kid, it's been driving me crazy.

Olive Garden commercials in general send me into a murderous rage causing me to shout at the TV and throw things.

Posted by: wendy at February 10, 2010 12:21 PM

Also, when Jin was gonna get shot, one of the guards talked Mac down by saying Jin might be “one of them.” What does that mean?

I think that it is important to keep all of the "non-others" alive for some reason. When Sawyer took off and Dogen said something along the lines of "it's important that you bring him back" or "important that he comes back alive" or something along those lines. Kind of like how it was imperative that they all be on the Aljera (sp?) flight.

Maybe something with the converging timelines? Can't converge with your current self if your past self gets capped?

Posted by: ashes at February 10, 2010 12:21 PM

Who’s the kid in that damn Olive Garden commercial ?

That's Molly Shannon's 8 year old lover/boyfriend from Wet Hot American Summer, of course.

Posted by: christian at February 10, 2010 12:23 PM

Wait a second, Kolby, I was thinking about your point on Ethan's mom (Amy). She wasn't anxious to bury her husband, she was anxious to bury those Others that were shot. That was most likely to cover their ass without getting caught breaking the truce. Her husband was never buried, remember? They eventually gave his body to Richard.

Of course, that in and of itself raises completely new questions. Like how someone so handsome as Richardos could be so lonely...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 12:24 PM

Also if Sayid turns into notSayid I will be very sad. It will be last seasons finale all over again.

NOOOOOOOOO NOT SAAAYYYID!!

And my roomates will think I am crazier than I already am.

Posted by: ashes at February 10, 2010 12:24 PM

You would think that Kate would ahve known to switch cars, not ONLY because this ain't her first rodeo crime-wise, but also because Arzt shouted out, "Hey! Hey! What the hell? Hey, I got your license plate!" as they drove away.

Bitches never listen...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 12:27 PM

Kate really is a terrible person who seems to be motivated solely by whatever satisfaction she finds in doing whatever is the opposite of what she ought to do, or what those around her would prefer her to do. When Sawyer told her not to follow him, it was so obvious that she would that I whispered to my hubby that Sawyer ought to have invited her along, if he wanted her to stay in the temple. I find her actions so idiotic and selfish, and her crime so inexcusable, that I stopped having any sympathy for her about three years ago.

Regardless, I enjoyed the episode for what it revealed about the Claire storyline. I find the parallels between her life and Rousseau's to be interesting: both young mothers who came to the Island very pregnant and whose babies were preyed upon by the Others. Claire saved hers only because she was surrounded by so many friends, and then abandoned her child, but both end up crazy and bereft of children in the jungle. Interestingly, both kids have sort of androgynous names (Aaron/Erin, Alex). And, in what I like to think is a Lost in-joke, the actress Emilie de Ravin is of French extraction.

In the parallel storyline, I was surprised to find that there actually was a family waiting for Claire and her baby. I always assumed that the psychic guy made them up. Then again, maybe that's true in one timeline and not another.

Also, I heard a lot of conspiracy theories about Sayid's accent being different when he came back from the dead, and I scoffed at them. However, there is NO denying that when he said, "They tortured me," he sounded nearly American. Sayid normally drops most of his R's, but those two were clearly pronounced. Since Naveen Andrews is English, it can't be that he was just dropping out of character. Since Jacob and MIB both inexplicably have American accents, it sure does make you wonder.

Posted by: J. K. Barlow at February 10, 2010 12:36 PM

Notice at one point Lennon says that Sayid is "infected." Like Roseau's crew?

Posted by: dummy at February 10, 2010 12:37 PM

@Christian: THANK YOU.

That's been bugging me for days, since I first saw the ad.

Posted by: Daniel Carlson at February 10, 2010 12:39 PM

I thought it was kinda filler-ish, because the questions I want answered are all island-related, and all the time spent on the alternate time-line don't seem to be answering any of them, but really just dragging it out. I'm too impatient - I don't give a crap what might have happened, as I am interested in understanding that island!

It's nice seeing the change in Sawyer's happy-go-lucky attitude to now one of grief and anger, because it's nice to see some actressin' from that guy. I don't hate Kate (c'mon, all the characters on this show could use a boot in the ass now and again). I esp. do not hate the delicious Dr. Jack. But I would like more answers, and less cagey time-wasting not-question-answering plot junk (ninja warlord translating - he speaks English! And mysterious pills? Alright already, dingdang it, get ON with it!).

And I still don't know where Vincent is. Where's the dog??? And I'm still hung up on the polar bear. They've explained the cages, but not how that polar bear could survive on a tropical island...unless I missed it. Still wonder about it tho. There's too much going on to be wasting time on this alternate timeline! Yesterday's show made me so crabby! :)

Posted by: Chickaboom at February 10, 2010 12:40 PM

And does this then mean that Claire was killed (by who?) back when she disappeared? That certainly makes sense, since she wouldn't have left Aaron alone of her own volition.

Perhaps she really did die when her house in New Otherton exploded. Remember that?

What I want to know is why Miles isn't revealing what he's learning through the use of his gift - his facial expressions and cryptic mumblings tell me he knows more than he's letting on - especially when it comes to who's dead and alive.

You're right, Patty - I was wrong about who she wanted to bury. I know it may seem like she wanted to bury the dead Others to keep the truce, but maybe there's more to it than that? I find it odd that no one who's been buried has come back - none of the Losties who died and for whom funerals were held have come back. I don't think.

Also, I'm pretty sure there is a Japanese word for possessed, so I'm not equating "claimed" with "body taken over by Smokey." I think, instead, that "claimed" simply means that the person is still the person, but with different goals and different motivations. Claire and Christian, and now Sayid, may be alive (again), but their purposes have changed. They serve someone else - but who is it?

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 12:43 PM

The thing that bothered me the most was that Dogen wouldn't just TELL Jack what was going on. Granted, it would be a weird conversation to have. You know, "Oh, your friend could be possessed by a living column of smoke that wants to pick us up and bludgeon us to death against trees and stuff." Seeing that Sayid was clearly dead a moment ago, that shouldn't have been too difficult to believe, or at least understand. At any rate, these Temple Others are too secretive. They don't explain anything! You'd think they'd be willing to be honest with our Losties since it seems so important to Dogen & Co. that they cooperate. It's infuriating.

I hate when characters don't just tell the truth about stuff. Then the "What's in the pill" scenes could have been cut down significantly.

Of course, having said that, I know that all characters in stories can't tell the truth right away, if they did, things like "Gone With the Wind" would have been about 100 pages long and "Pride and Prejudice" could have been written on the back of a napkin, but still...

Posted by: ZombieNurse at February 10, 2010 12:44 PM

chickaboom, are you by any chance using the Bingo cards from SciFi Wire? Both Vincent and the Polar bears are squares I'm not sure will ever get covered...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 12:44 PM

Something that didn't get brought up was the significance of the Kate-Claire connection as it relates to Aaron. It was interesting seeing Kate open up Claire's bag at the mechanic, realize it was baby clothes, feel remorseful about stealing from a young prego chick, but even MORE INTERESTING was to see her semi-deja-vu moment of going through the clothes of the child she raised in the other timeline.

Am I the only one that got that?

I agree with one of the previous posters, that LOST is all about choices. It seems like in both timelines there are things that are "supposed to happen":
1. Charlie is supposed to die
2. Jack is supposed to "lead" (wtf I mean by that, I have no idea)
3. Locke is supposed to stay on the island
4. Claire is supposed to raise Aaron (Argh! Another connection! Claire IS THE NEW ROUSSEAU! She is a mother who lost a baby, just like Rousseau.)

I think the ultimate resolution of LOST will be when both timelines are resolved into one, error-free, everyone-making-the-right-choices, no-one-has-to-die, universe.

Hot damn, I'm so geeked for next week!

Posted by: Jarsh at February 10, 2010 12:46 PM

Kolby, I wonder the same thing about Miles. Why doesn't he speak up? You'll remember that he was looking at Claire the same way just after the shoot-out in the Others' village -- which corroborates the theory that she died when the house blew up and that's when she was "claimed" -- but he barely knew them then, so one can understand why he kept quiet. Now, he's pals with a lot of them, esp. Jin, Sawyer and Hurley. What gives?

Posted by: J. K. Barlow at February 10, 2010 12:49 PM

Patty, Eko met Smokey another time - when he went with Charlie to find his brother's plane. Eko basically stared down Smokey and it backed away.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 12:49 PM

Jarsh - I think that's one of the points of the "alternative" timeline. Regardless of the circumstances, they are destined to make many of the same choices. Kate will always help Claire (and Aaron), Jack will always want to "fix" everything.

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 12:50 PM

Cindy, Claire was killed by the team of freighter-commando-ninja-operatives when they blew up the house she was in with a rocket.

Kolby, I think you're right on about the significance of burial.

Finally, smokey/man in black/whatever is being referred to as "Esau" in some circles. Mainly because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob#Jacob_and_Esau.27s_birth

Its an interesting read, though I don't know that it will provide any insight into future events.

There are my two cents.

Posted by: Pandemic at February 10, 2010 12:52 PM

Right, Cindy, but I have this feeling that most of the time Smokey was 'evaluating' people, it was testing whether or not he could/would manipulate them. It tests them (using the visions, the NotPeople) and decides whether or not to keep them around. Once Eko proved he was not useful, Smokey bashed his brains in.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 12:54 PM

@ Patty - no, I didn't know there was Lost Bingo (but why not?). I'm an animal person, so that got my attention, and kept it.

Posted by: Chickaboom at February 10, 2010 12:55 PM

Dead is dead. I do think the people we knew as Claire, Boone, Christian, Sayid, Locke, etc. are dead. What are they now? I don't know. Not apparitions that one could wave a hand through, for sure. Possessed, claimed, bodies invaded by another entity or being, I think.

We talked a lot about choices after last week's episodes. I definitely continue to think that at some point Jack and company will make choices that will reconcile the time lines. I think it's all about destiny vs. free will.

I did not get a feeling of deja vu when Kate went through Claire's bag (that was more for the audience, I believe). I did wonder why Kate thought there would be clothes in a purse though!

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 12:57 PM

I may need to rewatch, but I thought Genghis Khan did get Jack to spit up the pill.

Posted by: Patrick C at February 10, 2010 12:57 PM

Cindy, I'm betting she wanted the purse for her ID or her cash. She knew the suitcase was in the cab, because she told Claire to leave it.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 1:00 PM

Claire was killed by the team of freighter-commando-ninja-operatives when they blew up the house she was in with a rocket.

I'm was never certain it was that exact moment, but it's a possibility for sure.

Patty, I agree there was some sort of evaluation going on - but I don't know that Smokey was just prolonging the agony, so to speak. I guess we'll have to see what happens with Ben (if Smokey eventually kills him as well).

Sometimes I wonder if Locke then died long ago when he first saw Smokey. Remember when it tried to drag him away, but he got free and said he that what he had seen was beautiful? If I'm not mistaken, there were personality changes after that.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 1:03 PM

Does anyone remember whether toddler Aaron had a stuffed Shamu doll? That Kate gave him??

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 1:04 PM

Jacob = you can choose to be on my side, MIB = I choose you to be on my side?

Posted by: kelsy at February 10, 2010 1:06 PM

Cindy - I think Locke began to change the moment he realized he could feel his legs again. Every experience he's had on-island since then has only further cemented his attachment to it and faith in it. I don't think he could have been claimed until his death (at the hands of Ben), and until his body was returned to the island.

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 1:07 PM

Jarsh I'm with you on that observation, and also find it interesting that both Jack's and Kate's moments of odd recognition/déja vu have come both from moments spent looking in a mirror - Jack on the plane, Kate in the garage (I'm discounting Jack's déja vu moment with Desmond, because they actually did meet in the past, on the running track - at least in one timeline, anyway).

Posted by: Dill The Devil at February 10, 2010 1:08 PM

I'm was! Nice.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 1:10 PM

Rings a bell Kolby. I'll look it up.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 1:10 PM

He did! He did! I don't know what this means!

"When Jake was fighting with Kate, little Aaron walked out and was holding a stuffed animal, an Orca, or Killer Whale."

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 1:16 PM

Jack, not Jake.

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 1:17 PM

I don't know that it means anything - I think it was just a moment.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 1:20 PM

You don't know that it means anything? We are talking about LOST, aren't we?!?

deja-vu whale!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 1:22 PM

Kolby, I agree on your sentiments (Locke). I'm just saying, I've always wondered what exactly he saw - and if something important happened at that moment.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 1:22 PM

I was disappointed this week. This ep did not seem to advance either story in any significant way...

...however, even that's not for certain any longer; there have been too many tiny details and seemingly offhand remarks in the past that have later turned out to be massively significant. Even so, I am frustrated.

And Kate is a maddening character and I hate her. But good Goddamn, I have to give respect to Evangeline Lilly for the stellar job she's doing portraying Kate. Last night's ep, for all its other faults, was a showpiece for Lilly, especially the scenes with Sawyer.

Posted by: Jerce at February 10, 2010 1:26 PM

Average episdode; it's a pity they killed off Mac, at least he was mildy entertaining.

Posted by: Radlum at February 10, 2010 1:27 PM

Kate really is a terrible person who seems to be motivated solely by whatever satisfaction she finds in doing whatever is the opposite of what she ought to do, or what those around her would prefer her to do.

This is EXACTLY why I hate Kate's character so much. She is just so stupid and stubborn, and just about every trouble she or other people have gotten into have been caused by her rashness and refusal to listen to anyone.

This episode also confirmed one of the most frustrated things about Lost: how they keep on dragging plots because NO ONE WILL ANSWER A DAMNED QUESTION. The whole pill bullcrap was so long and frustrating, because the damned guy wouldn't tell Jack what it was all about. And Jack will do nothing he doesn't want to do or that someone tells him to do (which is why I hate him as much as I do Kate) and that whole back and forth was just so very tiring. And I get that what they want is to draw out the mystery but it's gotten to the point where it's completely unrealistic--no one who wants other people to do things would be so vague and exclaiming 'there is no time!' (when clearly you have enough time to keep trying to convince him by doing NOTHING). It's really just frustrating and the whole show has been like that.

Aaaaanyway...the ep seemed to follow the usual Lost formula: one super-exciting-super-revealing-mega-episode followed by one that's...not so much. Slow, mostly filler, with one or two big reveals, and a huge one at the end. funny how the filler eps mostly follow Jack and Kate, who are supposed to be our two 'heroes' (but are probably the least likable characters in the whole thing).

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 2:00 PM

Cindy I don't think it's a matter of there being 'little Smokeys' out there. Let me see if I can explain the way my brain thinks about this.

I think, in an overarching kind of way, that it's all about these opposing 'forces' on the Island. Good/bad, light/dark. All of the characters who landed on the island have two sides to their personalities, and like Kolby says it's about choosing what to act upon. And I think that there is an incredibly strong 'dark' force on the Island, which is represented by MIB, but he's just a PART of the whole, if that makes sense. Jacob represented the 'light', and so far he's kept the 'dark' side at bay as much as he could, but the dark has been creeping out more and more through the years and Jacob has maybe been becoming weaker. So it's all part of this one big force that uses people who will be useful to it and takes people's bodies by 'infecting' them and not giving them a choice on whether they get to be good or bad. I think an example of this would be Ecko, and how Ecko was really a BAD GUY from his past, and maybe the Evil force checked him out first, realized he was bad and would let him go on his way. Then Ecko wanted to build a church and the Evil force decided he couldn't have that. I don't really remember Ecko's timeline but...maybe.

And now the dark force is unleashed and that's why the Others are so afraid. I guess my point is that Jacob is sort of the physical manifestation of the dark side, but he's not ALL of it, if that makes sense. And it's everywhere on the Island, like a tentacled monster or something.

Maybe I'm overthinking it--but it's fun!

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 2:18 PM

Pausing reading to say I LOVE KING STRAGGLER!! "Nobody knows that I look better nekkid, nobody knows what I got in my sock." LOVE. Ok, reading now.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 2:23 PM

Ah Lost, and the return of "Hois Lane"!
"Hois Lane"?, you ask? Why Kate! Just like Lois Lane, no matter how many times Clark tells her to not follow him/go into that building/stay hidden, she just does the opposite, causing her to damsel-in-distress out every week. And Kate's a ho. Hence, "Hois Lane"!

*Hois Lane not copyrighted. Feel free to use it.

Posted by: welldressed at February 10, 2010 2:25 PM

AND I think if you're outside the 'protective circle' that surrounds the Others (see the perimeter around Dharma, the ash circles, the temple) you're more likely to be taken over by the dark force. Which is why, I think, Ben chose the 'good' people from the plane. Though of course Ben is a pretty evil guy, but maybe he thought he was acting on behalf of the 'good side'.

And this leads me to another question, because I can't remember if this was ever resolved: was Rousseau infected, or was her crew infected? I think it was the first.

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 2:25 PM

There’s a moment that recalls The Empire Strikes Back when Sayid is returned to his friends and simply says, “They didn’t ask me any questions.”

I'm so Star-Wars-bent that that was the first thing that occurred to me when the torture began. I didn't need the line.

I mean, Ethan Goodspeed, who left the island as a kid (or never went?)

I assume everything is the same in the LAX timeline prior to the bomb detonation in 1977. Thus, baby Ethan escaped the Island in that Dharma evacuation, which I think included baby Miles as well.


logar >> One cool thing that was brought to my attention is that the date of the ultrasound done on Claire is something like 2 weeks after the original flight 815 (the one that crashed).

logar >> So you're saying we had definitive proof that Island-Oceanic 815 happened two weeks later than LAX-815 (i.e., two weeks after September 22, 2004)? I completely missed that. That raises all sorts of questions about chaos theory and the plausibility of coincidence.

Cindy >> silliness is that Kate wouldn't have noticed Claire's huge belly when they were together in the back seat.

Cindy >> I assumed she noticed the pregnancy in the cab; it was just having the moment of opening the bag without the pressure of capture, examining the contents (which might have triggered deja vu to her alternate reality), and thinking about the implications of what she had just done that inspired her to go back.

Cindy >> The more I've thought about last week's episode and how MIB had to walk away and come back, both to change into and back from being Smokey - maybe it isn't that simple?

Maybe. I thought it was just as likely that they didn't want to pay for or deal with doing that effects shot on screen (particularly given how cheesy it looked under The Temple last season in the scene with Ben and UnAlex). Also, it makes for good visual drama to have UnLocke disappear behind the column and then burst out in Smoke mode on the attack.

As for multiple Smokeys, I'm sticking to the theory that Claire and Sayid are something different. Their bodies were directly taken over, whereas UnLocke has been shown to be a separate physical entity from the original body. Of course, they might be minions/allies of Smokey. (I really wish they would just name the guy, so that we can stop calling him four or five different things.)

General thought...

I agree they're really pushing it on not answering questions now. It's one thing to test the logic of secrecy between parties who are not necessarily allies, but it's quite another to do that same song and dance with less than 16 hours left in the series.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 2:38 PM

Naveen Andrews was DEFINITELY rocking another accent last night. I completely agree. A "spotty" accent, let's say. And, also, would Sayid react like such a little baby when tortured? I'd like to say I remember Sayid being stoic as f*ck when tortured, or that, at least, it takes more than what they dealt him. Granted, he's vulnerable, having just been raised from the dead. But I got such an eerie not-Sayid vibe from him (Miles facial-muggings notwithstanding).

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 2:38 PM

And I would complain more about the pill-dithering and Temple time-wasting except I LOVE JOHN HAWKES. The more the better. They can get rid of that asian stereotype, though.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 2:41 PM

I haaaaaaaaate Kate. I hate her!! She perpetuates the notion that wimmins = teh trouble.

Also: she ain't foolin' anybody but herself when it comes to her wanting Sawyer. It was quite satisfying to see Sawyer grieving over Juliet right in front of Kate -- but, seriously, SELFISH MUCH??? He just lost the woman he loved, and you're gonna cry about "boo-hoo, he loves her and not me"?

And consider that, as far as her linear consciousness is concerned, it wasn't that long ago that she accepted Jack's proposal. Is it Christmas? Because: HO, HO, HO!!!

And when Kate got the doctor and it was Ethan, I screamed out loud. That was ossom. Oh, "Lost". You know how to keep me interested, that's for sure.

Anybody else think it was highly implausible that Claire would hitch a ride from a woman who pulled a gun on her? Or not call the cops after being dumped on the side of the road by a carjacker? Or just sit and wait calmly for the bus after having been carjacked and robbed? "Oh, you brought my bags back! All is forgiven, friend!" I don't think so. Come on, "Lost", you're better than that.

Or maybe that hints at the connection in consciousness between the parallel worlds. Claire instinctively trusts Kate because she trusted her on the island.

That theory, though, raises a few big questions for me:

1. Would being "claimed" in the Islandverse have any effect on people in the LAverse?
2. Are these "parallel" world running on the same
"big picture" timetable? What I mean by that is this: when it's noon on February 10th in one world, is it noon on February 10th in the other? Or is the Islandverse running three years ahead of the LAverse, and the events we're seeing are happening simultaneously in their respective worlds?
3. Have these questions already been addressed in previous threads?

God bless you, Daniel Carlson, for always getting the review up so quick so that we can talk about it!!

Posted by: Jelinas at February 10, 2010 2:45 PM

One cool thing that was brought to my attention is that the date of the ultrasound done on Claire is something like 2 weeks after the original flight 815...

The date on the ultrasound was actually 10/22/04, which would make it one month after the date of the "original" plane crash. But that's if it was the date of the ultrasound and not Claire's due date, which we know was four weeks away thanks to Dr. Goodspeed.

If it was indeed the date of the ultrasound, that would be really interesting, adn just one more of the tiny discrepancies that have popped up in the LA 2004 timeline since the season began: Sayid's passport was Iranian and not Iraqi, Desmond was wearing a wedding ring when he was seated next to Jack on the plane, and Sun was addressed as "Ms. Paik" and not Mrs. Quon by the security officer at LAX.

What does all this mean? I have no friggin' idea.

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 2:52 PM

Oops, forgot to italicize that first part...

Posted by: Kolby at February 10, 2010 2:54 PM

figgy, you really had me on the light/dark pieces argument (BACKGAMMON, anyone?), but you lost me at MIB "not giving them a choice". The whole point is that we do still have choice (see The Devil). He had to convince Ben to kill Jacob, because he couldn't force him.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 3:05 PM

figgy >> I think an example of this would be Ecko, and how Ecko was really a BAD GUY from his past, and maybe the Evil force checked him out first, realized he was bad and would let him go on his way. Then Ecko wanted to build a church and the Evil force decided he couldn't have that.

figgy >> That's good thinking. I like that theory.

The only thing I would add to that that could modify the thought, though, is the stress that Smokey placed on Eko's owning up to his wrongs just before killing him. It was a dramatic beat that at the time seemed to carry quite a bit of weight. (That does not mean LOST will be consistent, of course.)

Refusal to meet the Smoke Monster's standard of contrition would seem less to do with the good or evil of Eko's actions at the moment (slaughtering people in his past vs. building a church in his present) and more to do with his personal mindset. If anything, the Smoke Monster was demanding "good" and not "evil" from him, but only under its rather strict terms. I long held the theory that the Smoke Monster was some sort of "redemption machine" run amok. Hearing UnLocke make the comment "I'm very disappointed in all of you" as he carried off Richard's body seems to jibe with this thought. It reminds me of the Judaeo-Christian Old Testament God dealing plagues, taking eyes for eyes, and demanding faith as opposed to the later J-C policy of turning the other cheek.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 3:12 PM

I have been watching in real time (not reviewing on DVD or anything) so my grasp on things that have happened in the past is a bit tenuous, but is there any evidence that Smokey possesses the actual people? It seems like he just makes separate facsimiles of the bodies - Locke was obviously a dead body in a coffin while SmokeyLocke was messing around on the island, and I suspect Christian is/was too. Could Claire have been Arzt-ed in the Otherton explosion and what we see now is SmokeyClaire? I agree that it makes no sense whatsoever for the real Claire to have been so blase about abandoning Aaron.

Posted by: tob at February 10, 2010 3:14 PM

I think, Patty, that with Ben killing Jacob it was a different thing. He had to manipulate Ben through Locke (who fell to his tricks), maybe making it SEEM like a choice while really not letting him have a choice. Maybe that makes sense, I really can't explain myself too well when it comes to this. That 'loophole' thing I think is SO important, I think, but I'm still trying to work it out.

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 3:25 PM

I don't think the MIB doing some sort of astral projection version of you (Locke, Christian, that Horse) is the same as being infected (Claire, Sayid, all them Frenchies that looked like Abercrombie and Fitch models even though it was supposed to be 1977). I think when you're infected (and we'll learn more as we see Claire/Rousseau (I don't usually do this but I have to) "Clousseau,") you're maybe more like a thrall? Not quite a thrall, perhaps. But little Ben was shot, then put in the Temple and then maaaaybe infected and then proceeded to kill everyone he knew??! And became a manipulative evil genius? Maybe that's evidence of the darkness going inside of you, not the same as having the MIB take your shape?

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 3:26 PM

Jelinas >> Or maybe that hints at the connection in consciousness between the parallel worlds. Claire instinctively trusts Kate because she trusted her on the island.

Jelinas >> I initially also found it implausible, but the connection between universes and their other selves, as further evidenced by her blurting out Aaron, what I interpreted as unease with Ethan, etc., seems like a strong and important element. So, yeah, I think LOST is better than that.

1. Not sure.
2. I don't think it's terribly critical. They could very well be linked across time as well as realities (i.e., "vertically" as well as "horizontally"), particularly given that we seem to be experiencing a vague awareness as opposed to any sort of direct codependency in particular actions.
3. You're the first person I've seen ask about the connection with a "claimed" self. I have seen others address your second point.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 3:27 PM

I think Ben absolutely had a choice, but it proved everything the MIB believes about human nature. That they are essentially dark and though he manipulated circumstances to but Ben behind that knife, it was Ben's choice to use it (to express his rage and Daddy Issues *drink*). And that's what Jacob is all about too. Free will.

As they say in Good Omens, "It's all part of a great big ineffable plan. All of it. You, me, him, everything. Some great big test to see if what you've built all works properly, eh? You start thinking: it can't be a great cosmic game of chess, it has to be just very complicated Solitaire. And don't bother to answer. If we could understand, we wouldn't be us. Because it's all — all — "
INEFFABLE

And yes I did just quote a Pratchett/Gaiman novel to make my point. Bite my nerdy ass.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 3:31 PM

It's one thing to test the logic of secrecy between parties who are not necessarily allies, but it's quite another to do that same song and dance with less than 16 hours left in the series.

A-MEN. Let's hope that there was some subtle revealing going on in Kate's story tonight; otherwise, this ep was a big 'ol waste of time (save the final reveal of Claire at the end).

The guy was played by Jeff Kober, known to some [well, me] as the evil magic-peddling demon Rack in the sixth season of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.”

Thank you! It bugged me that I couldn't place where I'd seen him before.

I realize that Jack was trying to force Dogen's hand, but seriously dude, you're a doctor! You know better than to swallow some random, suspicious pill!

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at February 10, 2010 3:32 PM

I don't think that Ben was dipped in the pool and was claimed by the Enemy. I think he was claimed by Jacob, who wanted the Others to persevere in driving out the Dharma people, who really just wanted to exploit the Island.

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 3:33 PM

coveredinbees >> I agree with your distinction (astral projection vs. infection).

As The Others seemed so averse to keeping someone who was "claimed" alive, I don't think the same thing had happened to Ben. Also, they did seem shocked/surprised to see Sayid up and around.

I'm just wondering what in that torture test tipped them off. They seemed like normal human reactions to pain to me.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 3:38 PM

I don't know. I still firmly believe that MIB left Ben without a choice at that point, and that that was the loophole (Jacob, or good, is about giving people choices. MIB is about not letting them choose?) MIB used Ben so much, manipulated him so much, that Ben's choices were 'kill him or kill him'. He couldn't forgive.

I could of course be completely wrong, I really don't take anything concerned with this show as written in stone.

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 3:39 PM

(plus I'm completely open to changing my mind if someone makes a good enough argument ;))

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 3:41 PM

OK, I agree with you guys about Ben. That was a half-baked claim.

(Did anyone else want the Asian Stereotype to say, "The Pit of Despair! Don't even think. . .don't even think about trying to escape." No? Just me? Okaaaay)

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 3:41 PM

I realize that Jack was trying to force Dogen's hand, but seriously dude, you're a doctor! You know better than to swallow some random, suspicious pill!

I actually appreciated that moment. I saw it as a metaphorical line in the sand for the show as a whole that meant we were finally going to answer questions that were asked. That is, rather than cutting away when someone asks a question (e.g., Hurley's last week asking about who was coming when they were spreading the ash), we have a character essentially putting a gun to his head unless he is told the answer immediately. Jack was as fed up with it as we were. I'm hoping this conversation with Dogen about Claire is finally the beginning of the end for the hemming and hawing.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 3:44 PM

I think the kid in the Olive Garden commercial might have been in WET HOT AMERICAN SUMMER. The boy who consoled and later married Molly Shannon, the nutty crafts teacher.

Posted by: Simone515 at February 10, 2010 3:49 PM

Re: Dogen and Jack. When Dogen told Jack he had to trust him or have faith in him or something, I was shouting, " But Jack is the man of SCIENCE! Not the man of FAITH!" And then he ate a poison pill. Real science-y, Jackhole.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 3:51 PM

And now I'm thinking that Ghost Jacob, who appeared to Hurley, isn't the "good" at all, but the evil entity who WANTED Sayid to be dipped into the pool and thus get corrupted.

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 3:54 PM

Dude, welldressed, we even have the same vocabulary.

HOS FO LIFE!!!

Posted by: Jelinas at February 10, 2010 3:57 PM

I'm with you on that, Figgy. It's like Season 7 of Buffy. Suspect everyone. . .especially the dead folks.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 4:02 PM

I'm betting she wanted the purse for her ID or her cash

When Kate got her cuffs off, she asked the dude if she could use a bathroom to change. She didn't have any clothes with her - she was rifling through the purse looking for clothes (I believe). She did end up with a new looking white shirt at some point though.

Figgy I like how you describe your thinking of the smoke monster - but I'm not sure I completely agree. As Darth mentioned, Smokey killed Eko because Eko would not be contrite. Meanwhile, when Ben met with Smokey Alex, she just wanted him to agree to do whatever Locke (who is now known to be MIB) says. And, what was it that appeared on island as Locke's father? Must have been a version of Smokey, I think. Or do people think that was the real Cooper?

Perhaps Smokey is an entity which can be brought forth only by certain people, or particular means known only to certain people? Can Smokey move on its own, or must it always be controlled or called upon? Whatever it is, I don't think there is only one or one version of Smokey, per se.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 4:03 PM

Did anyone else want the Asian Stereotype to say, "The Pit of Despair! Don't even think. . .don't even think about trying to escape." No? Just me? Okaaaay

coveredinbees, I didn't think that at the time, but HOW OSSOM WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN???

Posted by: Jelinas at February 10, 2010 4:04 PM

And yes I did just quote a Pratchett/Gaiman novel to make my point. Bite my nerdy ass.

coveredinbees, that gave me a mini geekgasm, right here at my desk. That is my favorite novel, and the logic, as presented by Aziraphale and Crowley, is so brilliantly illogical.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 4:15 PM

She didn't have any clothes with her - she was rifling through the purse looking for clothes (I believe). She did end up with a new looking white shirt at some point though.

The thing she was rifling through WAS the suitcase, not the purse. The purse was a small, brown bag. This was more the size of a duffel bag.

The truly unrealistic thing is that skinny-mini Kate would find a shirt to fit her in a PREGNANT WOMAN'S bag... Really?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 4:19 PM

Oh, Cindy, great question about Cooper! I had always accepted (LOST has killed my logic) that it was the real Cooper. But now I'm all to wonderin'...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 4:21 PM

And, what was it that appeared on island as Locke's father? Must have been a version of Smokey, I think. Or do people think that was the real Cooper?

I think that was the real deal. Ben says to Richard, "Bring me the man from Tallahassee" (or something to that effect). I firmly believe Mr. or Dr. Alpert visited the mainland on the subway and grabbed Locke's father (Daddy Issues *drink*) as part of Ben's game to f*ck with him. He COULD have been Smokey, but I don't think so.

And Patty, right on. I love Good Omens and I happen to be listening to the audio right now (love) and it all seems so APPLICABLE.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 4:21 PM

The truly unrealistic thing is that skinny-mini Kate would find a shirt to fit her in a PREGNANT WOMAN'S bag... Really?

I assumed it belonged to the baby. . .

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 4:24 PM

Love reading these comment threads! Intelligent television that inspires conversation like this gives me a chubby.

Re: Smokey and his association with the "evil" side of the Backgammon Game of Fate apparently going on.

It makes sense to me and what I think the writers are getting at, but that brings up troubling questions about the Richard-associated Others camp. Could there be two factions of Others as well? Temple Others being the "good guys" and Richard Others being the "bad?" I say this because of what it takes to become the leader of the Richard Others. If you'll remember correctly both Ben and Locke had to MURDER THEIR OWN FATHERS before they could assume the role of Head Other. This strikes me as something inherently evil and if ALL the Others end up being the good guys at the end of the series, I'll be pretty ticked. They've hinted several times that the Richard Others were either malicious or at the very least, misguided. Having said all that this whole theory doesn't seem to fit neatly with the whole Richard + Jacob = T.L.F.E. equation they set up at the end of last season and the beginning of this one. (Unless Richard is pulling a Ben and has never seen/talked to Jacob and was simply pretending to know his will in order to lead people around by the nose.)

Whew. This show hurts my head to think about. I like it. Don't get to exercise that muscle and sit on the couch at the same time very often.

Posted by: Roaddog at February 10, 2010 4:25 PM

Roaddog, you make some very interesting points, but do not forget that Cindy, who was an 815, became a Barracks Other, and now she (along with the other Barracks Others...) is residing at the Temple for safety.

Wow, looking over that sentence I noticed "Barracks Others" looked vaguely like "Barack Obama". Or I'm sleepy.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 4:36 PM

Patty, you're right. But I thought that the Barracks Others and the Richard Others were different sets as well? (The Richard Others were the ones that went walking about in the jungle all the time and weren't allowed in the Barracks Other's camp iirc.)

I dunno. I feel like I'm falling down the rabbit hole. There's literally SO much mythology/mystery involved in this show, I feel like a smart enough person could make a logically sound argument for just about any damn explanation they well please.

Posted by: Roaddog at February 10, 2010 4:42 PM

Regarding Sayid's Iranian passport, on the line that says "country of origin" it says "IRAQ". Just an FYI.

Posted by: brandexler at February 10, 2010 5:11 PM

A few things:

- Hugo is wearing a red shirt.

- does anyone know where one can read a translation of what Dogen is saying, 'cause I don't think Lennon is translating everything

- I hope that Rose, Bernard, and Vincent are still living in their little jungle camp, safe and sound.

Posted by: Norwego at February 10, 2010 5:34 PM

Roaddog, I don't think Locke had the stones to kill his father. If I'm not mistaken, Sawyer did it for him, because Locke's father was the original Sawyer.

Posted by: J. K. Barlow at February 10, 2010 5:36 PM

"The guy was played by Jeff Kober, known to some [well, me] as the evil magic-peddling demon Rack in the sixth season of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.”"

He also played that super creepy vampire guy with mommy issues in season 3 "Helpless", when Buffy loses her superpowers and Giles gets fired from the watchers council.

I just outgeeked you.

Posted by: Jeane at February 10, 2010 5:53 PM

That's just bizarre, Patty - it was a small bag, hardly worth anyone calling it a suitcase! I get it now, but Claire said, "Can I just get my suitcase?" (which I think was in the trunk). Why would anyone bother putting that thing in the trunk? Silly, silly.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 6:00 PM

coveredinbees, I'm just not sure. Ben could never have gotten a big dude like Cooper all by himself. So at least a couple of people would have had to go back to the mainland to kidnap Cooper. And then, do we really think that Ben needed Locke to kill his father to be the Others' leader? I really felt that was some sort of inside joke when it was going on and that it was a fake Cooper. Anything is possible though.

Also roaddog, I don't believe the murders were required. Ben killed his father because his father was abusive and Ben hated him. I think Ben claimed to be the only one who could communicate with Jacob and that's how he became leader.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 6:12 PM

Norwego >> I was wondering the same thing about the translation of Dogen. Quick Google searches yield some people claiming that Lennon's translations are more or less accurate. Here's a Youtube rendering - I don't know how accurate it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQSUFD5S7mE

Re: Bernard, Rose, & Vincent: If they're the skeletons in the cave, then I guess they didn't get time-jumped that last time. But I suppose it also means they survived the blast. (Or mybe they went to hide in the cave together as a sort of bomb shelter after having second thoughts about the warning from Kate, Sawyer and Juliet?)

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 6:15 PM

That youtube clip is only the premiere, though. Hopefully that person will do one for the new episode as well.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 10, 2010 6:17 PM

The thing about the pill was espescially irritating for me since I kept thinking, why wouldn't they just LIE about what was in it to get Jack to have Sayid take it.

Posted by: Alli at February 10, 2010 6:30 PM

I kind of hate that I know this, but the cab driver whose cab Kate stole was also on Heroes for a while. No idea if he's still in that.

Posted by: figgy at February 10, 2010 7:07 PM

Some thoughts:

~Interesting how the first way Lennon translated Dogen's word (before he chose "claimed") was "infected"; seems like a connection to how Rousseau used the word over and over again.

~Didn't Rousseau use the same straps to tie up Sayid when she captured him that time, and electrocuted him a little with wires?

Anybody else think it was highly implausible that Claire would hitch a ride from a woman who pulled a gun on her?

HA! Jelinas, I said the same thing to pseudo-hubs as we were watching it. Or, yelled, I guess. "Oh, yeah, way to go, CLAIRE! Get back in the cab with the psycho nut job! Stupidface!"

both Ben and Locke had to MURDER THEIR OWN FATHERS

Roaddog, Locke didn't murder his father. Sawyer did.

I don't know what was happening with Ethan there; I don't feel like I picked up any recognition, per se, from either Kate or Claire, at least as far as he was concerned.

Josh Holloway on the dock was AMAZING. That really was a beautiful performance from him.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 10, 2010 7:07 PM

Josh Holloway WAS amazing, but there was a point, during his crying jag, that he did the twee-est, girliest little hair toss (because, granted, the wind was whipping it in his face) that made me snort with laughter.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 7:43 PM

Oh, yeah, figgy!! Thanks; I was actually wondering that myself. He played the puppetmaster guy that was obsessed with the cheerleader's mom, I think.

And, Darth, I know that the producers usually do things like that on purpose. But I still thought it was lame in the context of just that episode. I'm glad that AvB knows where I'm coming from and shouted at the screen with me.

In fact, I don't know why she didn't just run away screaming when she saw the cab coming back.

Posted by: Jelinas at February 10, 2010 8:14 PM

AvB, you rocked my world with that comparison to Rousseau's electro-test! Now I have to go rewatch that episode and see the difference in Sayid's reactions...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 10, 2010 8:22 PM

What if their destinies on the island *did* change because of what happened? I mean, it seems like Sayid is the new Ben, particularly if he has a "darkness" growing in him, and Claire is the new Rousseau, with the crazy and the lost baby. Does it fit to think that all of them may have undergone fundamental changes in who they are, and what they're "supposed" to do? I don't know, these things pop into my head and I'm too impatient and easily distracted today to think them all the way through.

And I just got distracted by the thought that they're all not only physically Lost, but they've all Lost something that made them kind of Lose themselves. And then I got distracted wondering if there's any ice cream. Oh! There might not be, but there IS a 3 Musketeers in the kitchen. And if that's Lost, I'ma beat somebody down.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 10, 2010 8:30 PM

"And I just got distracted by the thought that they're all not only physically Lost, but they've all Lost something that made them kind of Lose themselves. And then I got distracted wondering if there's any ice cream. Oh! There might not be, but there IS a 3 Musketeers in the kitchen. And if that's Lost, I'ma beat somebody down."

Anna, you are awesome. :)

Posted by: Chickaboom at February 10, 2010 8:40 PM

AvB, I like your thoughts on everyone changing. Very interesting, as in, I must ponder these thoughts more. I don't know if Rousseau used the exact same straps - but since they're on the island, I imagine there are limited choices of strap style. She did use a battery.

The funny thing about Sawyer having killed Cooper is that Ben and the Others didn't know or find out, so it obviously wasn't a very important requirement.

And JH was just chill enducing on that dock. Le sigh.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 8:43 PM

Is nobody else going to call Dark Tower shenanigans?

I just hope they won't be lazy enough to out and out copy the whole premise. I'd like to at least see something original thrown in for those of us who already know the DT story.

Posted by: neurotica at February 10, 2010 8:49 PM

Uh...did you miss the part of the episode where Kate said that she wanted to find Claire? She didn't go after Sawyer because she is in love with him. And did you ever consider that maybe she was crying because she felt bad? The woman can't even talk to Sawyer without it meaning she's in love with him? And she can't cry when somebody just died without it meaning that she's jealous? Just a thought.

Posted by: Niamh at February 10, 2010 8:50 PM

The funny thing about Sawyer having killed Cooper is that Ben and the Others didn't know or find out, so it obviously wasn't a very important requirement.

I thought Ben was there? He brought Locke to see Cooper when he came out of the "magic box" (which, by the way, was never mentioned again, was it?) and then... and then... oh, crap. I forget. Locke had to convince Sawyer to come there? Did Ben tell Locke that? Dammit. Now I'm going to have to look that up. I thought Ben knew about that, though. Oh, and it was the strap on Sayid's head that made me think of it. I feel like it's just very familiar.

I never finished the Dark Tower series. It took so long for Wolves of the Calla to come out, that I forgot everything that happened before and lost interest in the series. I'll get around to it, but I probably won't be calling any DT shenanigans in the meantime. Although I believe several people did discuss that in the thread for last week's episode.

@ Niamh, I don't think Kate's mentioned Claire once since she disappeared. Also, she lies and manipulates people to get what she wants. AND her sole purpose for following him was to "convince" him to go back to the temple, which Lennon sent her to do. I mean, I didn't get out of Kate's crying that she had Lost Sawyer to the memory of Juliet, but she had no interest in finding Claire. Also, she was in love with Sawyer, and it's clear there is still at least some residual feeling there.

And, as long as I'm here, what is with everybody always having to "convince" people to do things? Locke had to "convince" Ben to kill Jacob; Jack had to "convince" Sayid to take the poison pill; Kate "can be very convincing when [she] wants to be"? Isn't it odd that they all need to use people and manipulate others into doing things? Like, ALL THE TIME?

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 10, 2010 9:05 PM

Ben did show Cooper to Locke and tell him what he had to do - then he left. After Sawyer killed Cooper, Locke carried the body back to Othersville. Episode: The Brig.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 9:20 PM

I don't think Kate's mentioned Claire once since she disappeared. Didn't she mention it last night? To Sawyer? Irony being, if she had stayed with Jin, boom, Clairetime.

Also, Locke dragged his dad to the hold of the Black Rock and got Sawyer to come to the Black Rock to kill Cooper. Then Locke slung his dad back over his shoulder and took him back to Other camp. Never not taking credit for the kill.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 9:21 PM

Ah, what Cindy said. I was close.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 9:22 PM

Yes, I remember now. Totally correct.

Bees, I meant prior to last night. Niamh said this: "Uh...did you miss the part of the episode where Kate said that she wanted to find Claire?"

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 10, 2010 9:27 PM

Ah well I think we can all agree that Kate is a liar and manipulator. Fo sho.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 9:29 PM

Posted by: Chickaboom at February 10, 2010 8:40 PM

Aww, shucks. *blush*

Cindy, I as trying to think about Sawyer that way too; who was he before, how did he change while he was on the island, how has he changed now? Definitely something that needs time working out. Possibly on paper, because my brain, she is old and full of holes. Like a fine Swiss cheese.

mmmmm swiss cheeeeeeese.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 10, 2010 9:43 PM

The producers are on record saying they plan to answer the questions that are important to the characters - not necessarily those that are important to the fanbase. So we probably won't learn anything about polar bears or Libby. Or Waaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllt!! but that's likely due to the fact that the child actor cannot credibly represent the character's age in 2004 or 2007.

We might not find out why the island has these special properties, but we will find out why these peoples' lives are so interconnected.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 10, 2010 9:55 PM

Baby swiss - the holes are smaller :)

Sawyer has changed quite a lot. Transformed completely even.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 10:13 PM

neurotica, when they said the Asian character's name was Dogen, I immediately thought of the Dark Tower, specifically the Wolves of the Calla. But I'm having a hard time connecting the character to the Dogan in King's book.

The recap over on Project Rungay brings up a question I hadn't thought of, but I apologize if it's already been mentioned: is there a specific point to the lack of technology in the temple? The hand-crank torture device, the mortar & pestle, the manual typewriter... they've all been pointed out. Is there a reason or is it just something else to ponder obsessively (curse you, Darlton! ;P )?

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at February 10, 2010 10:23 PM

Also:

We're all operating under the assumption that Esau/MIB has been every apparition on the island, no? Because if you think about it, the apparitions have been all dead people whose bodies can be found on the island. (might be a a hole in that theory, someone feel free to point it out). Examples: Christian Shepherd, Claire, and now Locke, hence the importance of his body returning on the Ajira flight.

I think the slow-reveal is that certain events are Fated to happen in the Lost universe. The details sometimes change, but the end result is the same. Someone might have mentioned this earlier. But Ethan, Claire, and Kate are clearly meant to come together as Claire is pregnant with Aaron.

And I'm not convinced Jacob/Esau represent the traditional good guy/bad guy paradigm. They perhaps merely represent competing theories on human nature - so it's more positive versus negative. Or idealist v. realist.

So really this comes down to whose team the Losties will side with - not necessarily good v. bad. It's like they moved to New York and had to choose between Mets or Yankees.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 10, 2010 10:32 PM

We're all operating under the assumption that Esau/MIB has been every apparition on the island, no?

If you read through the comments, you'd know we aren't all on that page. I also don't think MIB is Esau.

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 10:55 PM

Coltrane I think someone last week pointed out a few exceptions, my favorite being Kate's horse. . .which is certainly not a dead body on the island. Also Hurley's asylum hallucination whom I am convinced was Smokey/MIB or whatever you want to call him.

In the vein of apparitions, etc. What do we think about that vision of Claire that Kate had? Claire's not dead. . .we believe. We believe she's been infected but not killed back in the barracks or from a brain bleed later in the jungle, right? So who/what did Kate see? Or was Kate dreaming. . .hmm I've forgotten now.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 11:01 PM

I'll say Claire and Christian both visited the mainland in the same forms we see on island. Since we still haven't figured out what exactly they are...

I'm going with them being either Smokey, MIB or even Jacob. I don't exactly know what the word is (not unlike Lennon). Not apparition or ghost, not possessed - represented by???

Posted by: Cindy at February 10, 2010 11:19 PM

I definitely think Christian is Smokey (or Smokey/MIB depending on what you believe) because he set off the smoke detector in Jack's clinic when he showed up. I'm sorry, that can't be coincidence. Can it, writers? Are you just trying to mess with me?!?!

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 10, 2010 11:24 PM

ALWAYS SUNNY! Thats where I recognized him from, this was going to be driving me crazy!

Posted by: LfS at February 10, 2010 11:48 PM

Let me start off by saying I'm glad everyone hates Kate as much as I do. I've hated her since the middle of Season 2 and haven't stopped since.

That being said, for an episode fully devoted to Kate and her implausible escape from police custody, this episode was pretty good for mainly two reasons: Jack and Sawyer. Both awesome character developments and incredible acting. I'm really really starting to love Jack again.

Now for answers/mysteries. I tried to read most of these comments and don't think anyone has mentioned this yet (my friend came up with the theory):

Smokey/Non-Locke is different than "the sickness". Do we remember the sickness? Why Rousseau killed her entire team because they were sick? Also, when Rousseau captured Sayid that one time, she tortured him in a similar way that Doegan tortured Sayid to "test" him. To see if he had this sickness.

The sickness has to be different than Smokey because Smokey can only take on the appearance of a dead body on the island that's not buried (I agree with Kolby's theory about a body being protected if its buried). Hence, Locke's actually body exists simultaneously with Smokey's appearance of Locke's body.

Sayid, however, is Sayid. At least in terms of physical body. I don't think Smokey can actually possess people's body, but a sickness or infection can claim the body. However, there's no actual evidence that this sickness is related to Smokey/The Enemy. At least, not yet...

So yea, food for thought. Other than that, I called Mac dying the second he had more than 1 line.

Posted by: Littlejon2001 at February 11, 2010 12:56 AM

Cindy
Oh I read the entire thread, just forgot to use my sarcasm font.

Your comment about MIB/Esau confuses me. We've only seen the MIB once, in the 5th season finale. All we know is that he has a long history with Jacob. Therefore, fans began to use the term Esau, because we all know how much LindeCuse enjoy biblical allusions. Did you mean you aren't convinced MIB = Smokey? I thought that a widely agreed upon connection. [ ">Smokey Lostpedia profile]

CiB
Hmm. If you recall in season 4, Miles was very interested in Claire post-barracks 'spolsion, to the point that Sawyer had to keep him away. At the time I just thought Miles was creepy so I ignored it. He's also been weirded out by Sayid in the Temple.

Miles knows something, and it is definitely related to the sickness/infection, which as Littlejon pointed out, could be separate from Smokey, but I'm guessing it's still related.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 11, 2010 3:49 AM

Posted by: Coltrane at February 11, 2010 3:52 AM

"when Kate looks out the window and sees Jack and has a weird moment of recognition, and this is going to be telling. She’s not remembering him from some dream..."

Couldn't it be that Kate remembers Jack from the plane, when she picked from him the pen she used to break free from handcuffs?

Posted by: melzino at February 11, 2010 7:45 AM

Sorry, y'all, I didn't have time to read through everyone's comments, so this might have already been noted but:

Did Jack really have to go so far as to swallow the pill? Just palm it, or hold it in your mouth, you moron!

In the "Can Dish it but Can't Take it" category, Sayid wins hand down for being a total pansy. A little electrocution and one hot poker and he's sobbing like a baby; his late wife held up better than that when he tortured her.

No more Kate. Please. I'm begging you.

Posted by: DeadBessie at February 11, 2010 9:00 AM

Caught it yesterday afternoon so late to the party. A couple of thoughts:

1. Dogen. Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof love King's Dark Tower series. And in the series a mental construct that is used to hide away a part of yourself for protection is called The Dogan. It is a very complicated concept but it seems that calling the mystic guy Dogen has some relevance. Or it's just a DT in-joke, could go either way.

2. This is the last season of LOST. I'm enjoying every minute of it. I'm not impatient for it to "hurry up and get going", after this there is no story left. Just enjoy it for what it is. The end will come and on the show I think it already started. Things are starting to feel final and this season is one big finale. Among other things, I think there was significance in Kate telling Jack "Goodbye." when she left the temple. There is potential here for the LOST finale to be completely mindblowing and I am rooting for the team to pull it off. Until then, I am loving this final ride and will miss the show terribly when it is gone.

3. When Kate apologized to Sawyer for following him and he said "Which time?", the way Holloway delivered that line it just summed up beautifully all the pain and frustration they have suffered on the island. Really well done scene.

Posted by: TylerDFC at February 11, 2010 9:32 AM

"Sayid is the new Ben, particularly if he has a "darkness" growing in him, and Claire is the new Rousseau, with the crazy and the lost baby."

Sayid cannot be the new Ben, because Ben wasn't dead when he was dipped in the magical healing waters - therefore he could not be "claimed." I think Ben was always looking for a way out, some purpose in life, some form of acceptance that was never supplied by his father. He fully integrated himself into the Others' world, because he had no self-identity prior to the day he met Richard in the jungle. He didn't need to be claimed, because he went willingly.

And Claire cannot be the new Rousseau, not really, because Rousseau was not claimed, she was simply batty from the isolation, the things she had seen and the things she had done. Claire, it seems, is most likely dead and has been "claimed." I don't think Dogen lied about that, and he seems to be the one living person on the island (maybe besides Richard) who has any clue as to what's really going on. And Claire didn't lose her baby - she left him, which I think is the greatest indicator that she no longer has the ability to make her own decisions.

I think there's difference between "claimed" as they seem to be using it on the show, and "possessed." I don't think anyone has been possessed, not in the conventional sense. I think when they say someone has been "claimed," I think it just means that they are no longer capable of free will and now serve at the pleasure of some other power.

And we really have no idea who is bad and who is good, and I think that's what the writers want.

Posted by: Kolby at February 11, 2010 9:32 AM

Couldn't it be that Kate remembers Jack from the plane, when she picked from him the pen she used to break free from handcuffs?

If that were the intended recognition, it would have been a glance, as it would have mattered little in the face of getthefuckoutofhere. The way she looked at him was intense, like it hurt her brain.

Like it is hurting mine.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 11, 2010 9:36 AM

Littlejon2001, I don't necessarily agree about the Smokey rules, but I do agree that MIB might not be Smokey at this moment (as faux Locke). It was all a little too overt for me when MIB/Locke basically claimed he was Smokey.

Coltrane, I'm just not of the opinion that we're dealing with two Biblical characters here - most people don't refer to MIB as Esau any longer. It seemed to be a fleeting idea some fans had but it hasn't stuck. And again, I'm not convinced Smokey = MIB. Perhaps they are connected in some way, but I took issue with MIB having to walk away to ostensibly change into and back from Smokey. And then he announced it ("Sorry you had to see me like that.") I'm not buying what he's selling at the moment.

And as final thought, I want to throw the reincarnation idea out there again. I don't exactly know how to apply it, but I have a feeling that in some way it does apply.

Posted by: Cindy at February 11, 2010 10:19 AM

HA! Here's what just popped into my head: Miles Straume = maelstrom.

I think I have too much brain invested in Lost.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 11, 2010 11:53 AM

...or possibly not enough.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 11, 2010 11:54 AM

Cindy
I just assumed MIB had to transform away from Ben because the producers know it's more effective than using special effects, which on this show haven't been very impressive.

I don't think we are dealing with actual biblical characters either, just that LindeCuse enjoy references that give their characters added weight.

After reading Doc Jensen's column I am also very interested in the concept of reincarnation in the LOSTiverse.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 11, 2010 11:54 AM

Last night I had this weird, fleeting thought that I tried to explain on fb to AvB. I get these little blips that run through my brain that seem to make sense for a second, and then they run away so quickly that I feel I haven't even grasped them myself. But anyway, I have always had a funny feeling about Aaron growing up to be someone we already know - maybe Locke - maybe someone else. And since people were thinking about how reappearing Claire seemed so Rousseau-ish, maybe there's something going on there. So what if particular Losties are, in fact, lost in separate time lines? Lost in a reincarnation, so to speak? See - I can't even really explain it. But I'll just put the thoughts out there and maybe at some point they will be sensible.

I can't deal with reading Jensen - his brain is all over the place, schizophrenic. But I do remember there was an anagram of reincarnation on one of the buildings - the funeral home?

Posted by: Cindy at February 11, 2010 12:20 PM

Cindy - do you mean Hoffs/Drawler? It's an anagram of flash forward. It was a hint as to what was happening in that episode, the first that used flash forwarding instead of flashbacks.

Posted by: Kolby at February 11, 2010 12:25 PM

Interview with Darlton in the latest EW confirms that FakeLocke = MIB = Smokey. In case anyone's curious:

"Says Cuse, 'Now you have enough information to ask the correct question, which is not "What is it?" but "Who is it?" The producers promise that this season will explore the nature of conflict between Jacob and Locke/MIB/Smokey, which involves fundamental questions like "Is man good or evil?"'

In reference to Sayid's dip into the healing spring, when asked if it affected his potency, Lindelof responded, "He can now make women pregnant just by looking at them. That's episode 4." I'm pretty certain he was able to do that before he was resurrected.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at February 11, 2010 12:27 PM

But I do remember there was an anagram of reincarnation on one of the buildings - the funeral home?

It was the van used to carry Locke's coffin to the butcher shop. (S5E2 The Lie) I don't remember now what it actually said, though.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 11, 2010 12:36 PM

He got me pregnant from inside the teevee. True Story.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 11, 2010 12:37 PM

No Kolby - I found on wiki: Ben's Carpet Cleaning Van: Canton Rainier was the anagram.

Mel, I can't take that answer as specific enough. Off to read the interview though.

Posted by: Cindy at February 11, 2010 12:38 PM

Just a quick note on the Locke/Sawyer/Cooper murder. Ben was not there, as has been previously pointed out, and therefore doesn't know Sawyer did the killing. But Richard was the one who recommended Sawyer to Locke and gave him Sawyer's file, so there's that...

Posted by: elizabeth at February 11, 2010 1:11 PM

"Lost: The Shape of Things to Come (#4.9)" (2008)
James 'Sawyer' Ford: You alright, sweehart?
Claire Littleton: Yeah, a little wobbly but I'll live.
Miles Straume: I wouldn't be too sure about that.

I just found this on IMDb and thought it verrrrrry interesting.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 11, 2010 1:44 PM

Context: I was looking at quotes from Miles. I don't remember him saying that, probably because I didn't necessarily think it important at the time.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 11, 2010 1:46 PM

Fascinating quotes/tidbits from that episode (S4E9 The Shape of Things to Come)

HURLEY: Can't believe you're just giving him Australia. Australia's the key to the whole game.
~~~
BEN: There was a man at her procession. He goes by the name of Ishmael Bakir. He's one of Widmore's men.
[Ben extracts a photograph from his pocket and shows it to Sayid. It looks like it's from an automated traffic camera. The man behind the wheel is the one Ben took photographs of from the rooftop moments earlier.]
BEN: Bakir was last seen five days ago in Los Angeles, caught by a traffic camera, speeding away from the corner of La Brea and Santa Monica.
SAYID: That's three blocks from where Nadia was killed.
[Ben nods.]
~~~
As for the context of the Miles quote, it seems like he was referring to whether or not any of them would live, given trigger-happy Keamy.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 11, 2010 2:19 PM

I think Claire was already dead.

Posted by: Cindy at February 11, 2010 3:21 PM

The question then becomes: how quickly can a dead body be claimed?

Posted by: Cindy at February 11, 2010 3:21 PM

Yeah, I think Claire complained about her head hurting later on. . .I think she died of a brain aneurysm or something, out in the jungle. That means asian stereotype is lying. . .though. Because she can't be infected if she's dea-oh wait. That's what happened to Sayid. Blargh. Ok, Claire dies in the jungle and her body is infected (like perhaps when Christian walks up to her in the jungle), or she died in the barrack explosion and was infected there, before Sawyer even reached her. The second theory may be better given those WTF looks Miles was shooting at her from the get go. But can I say something.. . WHY DOESN'T MILES TELL HIS FRIENDS (Hurley, say) ABOUT THE DEAD PEOPLE/INFECTION VIBES HE'S GETTING/HAS GOTTEN FROM CLAIRE AND SAYID. Stop looking askance and open your trap, Miles.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 11, 2010 3:42 PM

I'm going to be the 50th person to agree that the burying must be important. Otherwise we would get an infected/claimed Juliet in order to mess with Sawyer, and we know that's not happening a) because he buried her and b) because Elizabeth Mitchell is on another show now.

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 11, 2010 3:44 PM

WHY DOESN'T MILES TELL HIS FRIENDS (Hurley, say) ABOUT THE DEAD PEOPLE/INFECTION VIBES HE'S GETTING/HAS GOTTEN FROM CLAIRE AND SAYID. Stop looking askance and open your trap, Miles.

Bees, I yell this at my teevee ALL THE TIME. Sadly, communication is the bane of drama's existence. Which I always remember later. After the yelling.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at February 11, 2010 6:32 PM

I'm not convinced we should assume the Temple Others are always correct. They had no idea Jacob was dead.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 11, 2010 6:47 PM

sayid..

ok, so if dr. jack was ready to crack ribs to get a pulse post drowning.... and quite ready to go to the mat/swallowing the poison pill, why hasn't he checked sayid out, aftr sayid tells of his 'they burned me' torture?

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