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Objects in Space

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (153)



lost_recap_11.jpg

This — this — is what I’m talking about. This week’s “Lost,” titled “Happily Ever After,” was another one of the head-benders that opens up new avenues for stories and brings us one step closer to an understanding of the ins and outs of the show’s universe. It doesn’t hurt that it was written by creators Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse and directed by long-time series helmer Jack Bender, either. Plus it was a Desmond-centric episode, and Desmond’s special abilities always make for interesting story turns. It was a strong episode in general, and especially welcome after last week’s dreary Sun-and-Jin debacle. The narrative was also notably less segmented than other eps this season, and the non-crash timeline events were more directly related to the original timeline than ever before. As such, I’ll do my best to lay out the events as easily as possible.

The Island Timeline
Desmond, in a shot that opens on his eye because that’s the way this show goes, is being treated by Zoe, who tells him he’s been unconscious for three days because of the drugs they gave him. He gets his next big shock when he looks up from his bed to see Charles Widmore, who asks Desmond if he remembers being shot. (It happened in the middle of last season, which feels like a lifetime ago.) Desmond does, and Widmore eventually lets the other shoe drop: He admits that he’s brought Desmond back to the island, which news Desmond greets with a predictable look of murderous rage that leads to a physical attack on the older man. Telling him that the island isn’t done with him yet, Widmore leads Zoe, Jin, and the rest of his team outside and over to a warehouse-looking building where a test is being set up.

Inside a control room, Widmore’s team is nervously trying to make sure that they can start a machine housed in a small shack outside; the machine turns out to be a pair of giant coils used to create an electromagnetic field. Widmore wants to toss Desmond into the field since he’s proven he can survive an EM attack, and Widmore wants to know if he can replicate his luck. After the predictable accidental frying of a redshirt crewmember, Desmond is dragged into the chamber and strapped to a chair between the coils. Widmore gives Desmond the hard sell about the importance of his mission, and says he’ll need to eventually ask a “sacrifice” of Desmond, after which he and the rest scram to make sure they don’t get zapped by the blast. Desmond manages to break free from his chair but can’t escape the small room before the coils begin to build their charge and eventually emit golden bolts of light. Desmond’s blasted from all sides as the screen fades to white and comes back with:

The Los Angeles Timeline
Desmond is in LAX, shortly after the safe landing of Oceanic 815. Hurley, sensing he’s disoriented, reminds him that their bags are at carousel 4, and Desmond heads there and winds up chatting with Claire for a bit. Desmond meets his driver, who turns out to be George Minkowski, who was the Kahana’s communications officer in the original timeline before he lost the ability to pin his consciousness in a set point in time and subsequently bled out from the mental trauma. He’s looking good, considering. George drives Desmond to a tall office building where he meets Charles Widmore, his boss, who greets him with a smile and a hug. It’s a crazy world.

Desmond is basically Widmore’s fixer, and the old man gives him a new assignment: Widmore’s wife is throwing a charity event, and their son, a musician, wanted to perform classical music mixed with rock at the event. The hitch is that the rock band in question is Driveshaft, and their bassist, Charlie Pace, just overdosed and got arrested for heroin possession. Desmond’s job is to babysit the recently arraigned Charlie and get him to the party. Widmore toasts Desmond’s skill as well as his unencumbered lifestyle, though the dialogue hits it too heavy on this stuff; obviously we know Desmond’s happier with Penny than as a corporate fixer, and that he’ll likely learn that in some way in this timeline, so it’s not as if we need to be tricked into actually agreeing with Widmore here, since we won’t. Still, Widmore pours them both a glass of 60-year-old MacCutcheon whisky (the same brand Widmore didn’t share in “Flashes Before Your Eyes,” and in fact the same fictional brand that’s used quite a bit in the show) as they drink in friendly company.

Desmond picks up Charlie at court, but Charlie bails and heads across the street to a bar, where Charlie starts rambling about “consciousness-altering love,” a phrase no one has ever said outside a TV show, but his roundabout stories have a point: He reveals that as he was accidentally choking on the heroin ball in the bathroom of Oceanic 815, he had a vision of a “rapturously beautiful blonde” and knew it was a vision of real love. It isn’t made clear, but this has to be Claire, and that sets up what’s to come. As Charlie and Desmond are driving back to Widmore’s — with Suckshaft Driveshaft on the radio — Charlie lectures Desmond about the danger of enjoying his material trappings, then decides to give him a taste of what Charlie saw in the plane. Charlie grabs the wheel and forces the car over a pier and into the water. Desmond panics and goes up for air, then dives back down to rescue Charlie, who’s still buckled inside the car. Looking in through the window, Desmond sees Charlie turn and press his hand against the window just like he did at the Looking Glass station, and in that instant, Desmond flashes on the original-timeline Charlie and the “Not Penny’s Boat” message he scrawled on his hand in a dying act of bravery. Desmond is startled for a moment but manages to get Charlie out of the car and safely back to the pier.

They’re taken to a hospital, where Desmond is ordered to get an MRI after he admitted he might have had some hallucinations in the event. Down in the lab, a tech straps Desmond to the machine’s slab and gives him a panic button to push if the numbers reach zero he starts to wig out. Once the machine’s up and running, the magnetic field triggers more flashes, and Desmond sees Charlie again, then Penny, and their little baby Charlie, and even hears her voice. But he overloads and hits the panic button, then races off to find Charlie. He finds Jack instead, reminding him they were on the same flight and looking for help locating Charlie, but just then Charlie goes running by in nothing but his hospital gown. Desmond gives chase and catches up with him on the ground floor, asking him to explain the visions. Charlie can’t, but he advises Desmond to find Penny. With that, he walks away.

Having “lost” Charlie, Desmond has to explain the incident to Widmore’s wife, but when he gets to their place, she turns out to be surprisingly understanding about the mishap with the band. She’s also Eloise Hawking, who in this timeline is married to Widmore and raised her son, Daniel, with him. Eloise definitely has a moment of looking spooked when Desmond introduces himself, though, and her behavior turns sour when Desmond overhears some party planning official reading a list of guest names and mentions Penny. Desmond asks to see the list but is totally cockblocked by Eloise, who pulls him aside and forcefully tells him to quit doing what he’s doing. She says that someone has done something to change the way Desmond sees things but that he should stop looking for whatever he’s seeking and be happy with his life. After all, he’s got the respect of Charles Widmore, which is what he wanted more than anything, right? Desmond wants to know how the hell she knows what he wants, but she ignores him and holds firm, simply telling him he can’t see the list because he’s “not ready yet.”

Of course, Daniel Widmore has other ideas. This timeline’s version of Daniel Faraday, Daniel Widmore catches up to Desmond as he gets back to his car and takes him for a walk to explain things, by which I mean raise a ton of interesting questions. Daniel tells Desmond about falling in love at first sight with a redhead that might be Charlotte, and after that, “things got weird,” like when Daniel woke up one night and wrote out an advanced set of quantum physics equations despite having no idea what they meant until a friend told him. Daniel asks Desmond to think of a scenario in which a coming catastrophe could only be avoided by detonating something like a nuclear bomb. He posits that there’s a whole other life out there, but for whatever reason, “we changed things.” It’s fascinating to see these other version of the characters begin to wake up to the notion of competing realities. Daniel says he doesn’t want to set off a nuclear bomb because he’s pretty sure that, somehow, he already has. After some more goopy dialogue that seems to place a lot of narrative importance on true love as a boundary breaker between worlds, Daniel lets Desmond know that Penny is Daniel’s half-sister, and that he can tell Desmond how to find her.

And of course: She’s at the stadium where Jack and Desmond met in the other timeline, running the tour de stade when Desmond shows up. She reaches the bottom of the steps and rests as Desmond approaches, smiling more as he realizes it’s the woman from his vision, and that he feels the familiarity and love Daniel and Charlie were talking about. He approaches her and they introduce themselves, reaching out to shake hands, but the moment they do, we get a smooth cut to:

The Island Timeline
Desmond wakes up on the floor of the EM chamber, with Widmore and the team looking down at him, impressed at his survival abilities. He was only out for a few seconds, they say. Desmond stands as Widmore starts in again on his spiel about protecting the island, but Desmond cuts him off with look of understanding, acceptance, and even kindness. He accepts that he’s there to help with the mission, and so sets off for somewhere through the jungle with Zoe and some others. She’s suspicious of Desmond’s new attitude, but he tells her that a lot can happen in 20 minutes, the time elapsed since he awoke. Just then, Sayid jumps from the jungle, snaps a guard’s neck, and tells Zoe to run away. He tells Desmond that Widmore’s people are “extremely dangerous,” and Desmond just grins and rolls with it, telling Sayid to lead the way.

There’s one last bit, back in the Los Angeles timeline. Desmond wakes up in the stadium at Penny’s feet, having fainted when they shook hands. She thinks he’s cute, though, and they make a coffee date for an hour later. Desmond heads back to his car, where George is waiting, and Desmond asks the man to wrangle a passenger manifest for Oceanic 815. George says he can do that no problem, though he’s curious what Desmond wants with it. Desmond, staring into the middle distance with worrying conviction, says, “I just need to show them something.”

And that’s that. And, well, it was a hell of an episode. The fact that the original timeline is making itself more forcibly known on the Los Angeles one is telling. At first it was just knowing glances like the one Jack and Kate shared at LAX, but this is bigger. Maybe it’s triggered by a proximity to an extreme emotional state, hence the near-death flashes and the crumbling of the walls that happens when someone spots the person they loved in the other world. Desmond is special, though. He doesn’t just time-travel, he can project his consciousness into other times and come back with the memories and experiences. So when he blacked out and woke up a few seconds later in the electromagnetic chamber, the L.A. action wasn’t just an alternative to his other self but a very real thing he was experiencing that then affected his behavior upon waking. Eloise is also still extremely creepy, and seems to have the ability to know about/travel between alternate timelines at will, or maybe to transmit knowledge between them, or maybe just to know about them all at once. Her admonishment of Desmond almost made it seem like she had a hand in planning his Los Angeles life, or at least that she’d known about it as long as he had, making that world feel like a construct that depends upon the complacency of the Oceanic passengers for its integrity. It feels like eventually, the “original” timeline will have to overpower the new one, though how, when, why, or in what way remain a mystery. And just what does Widmore want Desmond to do? Live through another electromagnetic explosion that turns the sky purple? Become the new protector? Will we ever meet Penny’s mother? Can every episode be this good? I leave the discussion, as always, in your hands.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society, as well as a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

This was a damn good episode.

Posted by: rg at April 7, 2010 11:42 AM

I feel like a dunce; it did not occur to me that the flashes in the MRI were a result of further magnetic tampering. Duh.

And am I the only one having trouble with the page loading? It keeps refreshing itself and cutting things off. And I will cut a bitch if it gets in the way of my comment hoarding!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 11:43 AM

I said to my husband, "that shack (in which they put Desmond) looks like Jacob's cabin!" and he thought I was crazy... but I'm not. I'm Desmond's constant ;)

Posted by: chester at April 7, 2010 11:44 AM

What an incredibly episode. I think I would have been happy if LOST was just about Desmond and Penny's journey. I love their story,a nd Henry Ian Cusick is amazing. How lucky that we get to watch so many capable actors on one show.

Eloise is obviously aware of the two realities, and understands how to keep them seperate. And we've known for a few seasons now that she sees Desmond as incredibly important. I wonder if she'll show up on the island eventually.

The LA X reality seems to be, as Eloise said, the manifestation of the Losties' greatest wishes - Desmond is in Widmore's good graces, Jack's a great dad, Sayid gets to live in a world where Nadia is alive and well, Kate sees Claire and Aaron together, Locke has both his dad and Helen in his life, Ben peserves a happy future for Alex, yada yada. I don't quite get Sawyer's or Jin & Sun's storylines, but they haven't quite panned out yet.

Oh, and LOVE is the constant, yo.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 11:47 AM

INCREDIBLE, dur.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 11:48 AM

OOOhhhh, this was a good one. Did anyone else notice Desmond checking out the boat on the wall in Widmore's office, or the painting of the scales, with the black and white rocks?

Lots more.....got to think...

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 7, 2010 11:50 AM

UH-MAZIN' EPISODE.

The look on Desmond's face when he was told he was back at the island was some serious actressin'.

As a person who has to get brain MRIs like ALL THE TIME, let me tell you, that shit suuuuuuuuucks. it really is that loud and it really does make one want to lose one's fucking mind. and that's even after one has taken a handful of xanax.

and by "one" i mean "me."

Posted by: stopthemadness at April 7, 2010 11:52 AM

Also, for those of you keeping track, Des saw his reflection TWICE in last night's episode.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 11:56 AM

Eloise is also still extremely creepy

I did think it was awfully sweet of her to let AltDaniel continue with his music in the LAX timeline, since in the original timeline she wound up murdering him after/before telling him he couldn't continue studying it because he had to concentrate on the physics.

OHGOD I loved this episode.

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 11:56 AM

and seriously... that song You All Everybody has got to be the worst shit that my earholes have ever heard.

are there any other lyrics besides "you all everybodyyoualleverybodyyoualleverybody everybody! YOU ALL!"

::blows head off::

Posted by: stopthemadness at April 7, 2010 11:56 AM

mega-sharktopus, ftw.

Posted by: stopthemadness at April 7, 2010 11:57 AM

I presume Island-Desmond knows what LAX-Desmond is thinking in that limo, and it would seem that Widmore and Island-Desmond's plans might be in sync based on Desmond's attitude. Hence, I'm confused why Desmond was so amenable to just happily tagging along with evil-Sayid. Perhaps he feels it doesn't matter what his Island self does and only matters what his LAX self does?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 11:58 AM

stopthemadness>>

You all, everybody
You all, everybody
Acting like you're stupid people
Wearing your 'spensive clothes
You all, everybody
You all, everybody
You all, everybody

I appreciated that the lyrics were relevant to Charlie's attempt to make Desmond see the error of his ways.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 12:00 PM

Lovely, wonderful episode. Speaking of love, I guess that's it, eh? LOVE. Mr. Desmond, the fix-it guy, is going to set things right. And Eloise doesn't seem happy about it. I have to wonder whether Widmore's motives for using Desmond are not just to save the island, but also to continue keeping Penny and Desmond apart, so I'm still not trusting him. And his methods SUCK. I'm guessing that Widmore and company are going to try to set up a similar scenario to the hatch, and that he must think that the "field" (for lack of a better word) that used to keep things within a certain distance "stuck" to the island will keep MIB trapped there as well.

I wonder if him trying to keep Desmond on island will result in Penny joining him on the island at some point - and I'm back to thinking it could be Penny and Desmond in the cave.

I stand by my assertion that the Desmond we saw on the sideways plane was time-traveling. I think that scenario was entirely separate from the sideways flash we saw in this episode, where Desmond is off the plane. The issue is trying to separate out what portions of Desmond's off island scenes are sideways and which may have been his mind flashes; I think I have to watch again.

The whole business with Charlie underwater and Des seeing his hand gave me chills. As did Penny and Des meeting again. Call me sappy, but I love love.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 12:02 PM

Darth, Mr. Mega-Sharktopus and I were talking about that. We couldn't decide if he knows that Sayid is evil now, and Locke is Smockey now, and he's going off with them to get Jack and Sun and Kate and Claire out of there? Oh, and Sawyer. Has he seen Jin? (I don't remember.) Does he know that Jin and Sun are both there but haven't seen each other yet? Why does Charlie know what he knows? Does Widmore know Charlie knows ...something?

SO MANY QUESTIONS.

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 12:03 PM

Eloise has always had that ability- remember she was his guide when he was first going through his flashes, and explained (somewhat) how things work. She must have a similar ability to move or be aware of parallel realities.

Damn she's creepy as f*ck, isn't she?

Also, I was on a Lost forum the other day, and some guy came up with a theory involving that exact diagram that was in the notebook last night, which was in Faraday's notebook in the other timeline as well. It's a real diagram made by real theoretical physicists. In sum, it involves something called real time and imaginary time, and all sorts of crazy stuff. Long story short, the island's EM properties can cause some sort of split in time, creating parallel realities that exist concurrently, and may be entangled in some way. I'll try to find the link, if anyone wants to take a look. Interesting stuff, and the post might explain things better than the show will end up doing.

Posted by: logar at April 7, 2010 12:03 PM

Also, in Widmore's office, there were TWO paintings of scales- one framed in white, and the other framed in black.

Posted by: logar at April 7, 2010 12:04 PM

darth corleone, AH! ok, that makes sense.

i remember being annoyed by that song in season 1. i never looked for deeper meaning. smart.

back to my hovel.

Posted by: stopthemadness at April 7, 2010 12:04 PM

Okay, I like Desmond, and so I like Desmond episodes, but I never did get the concept of "constants." What exactly do they do for the time traveler/alternate reality jumper? Now that Desmond in the alternate reality knows Penny, does that mean he can stop jumping? Desmond episodes always just leave me overwhelmingly confused.

Posted by: Cree83 at April 7, 2010 12:04 PM

Am I the only one that didn't enjoy this episode? I mean, it was great having Desmond come back, and even greater having his importance re-established for the sake of the show's story, but COME ON, I have never sat through an hour of television that took so long to get to the point. And once that point is established (the fact that Desmond can unwillingly transfer his consciousness from one timeline/reality to another), the rest became laughably predictable! Oh look, it's Eloise! I wonder what they're going to talk about! Oh look, it's alternate-reality Farraday! Wonder what is going to happen... Desmond meets Penny, and they like each other. No kidding!
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the story, but I feel like the pacing of this show makes molasses in January look like Mario Andretti at times. LOST used to be fascinating because of the twists and turns, the mystery; now we all know where the series is headed, and the creators are just laughing at us with the dopey path they're taking to the end.

Posted by: Jarsh at April 7, 2010 12:05 PM

Well, well, well. Another filler episode!

Just kidding. That was such an incredible and satisfying episode and must rank as one of the best ever.

In the world of Lost, romantic love transcends the time space continuum. How lovely and life affirming is that? I like that it was romantic love (as opposed to say parental or familial) because that is the love that you choose and that chooses you and that is what the show/island is all about.

Now to read the recap!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 12:07 PM

So last night's episode but the kibosh on my theory that the alt-reality we've been watching is actually the new default reality, & that the last moments of the series will establish that.

OK, so let's assume that Faraday's bomb set a new reality from the point of explosion, in 1977. So in the new reality, lots of things haven't happened...Jacob hasn't "touched" Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Oceanic 815 didn't crash, etc. But everything that happened up to the explosion still happened; a young Eloise Hawking was on the island, killed a man that she discovered to be her son from the future, & shortly thereafter, the bomb exploded. So in the alt-reality that ensues, Eloise lives to be an old woman, & over time sees that the future course has been changed. More specifically, she killed Daniel in 1977, saw his journal, & verified that he'd traveled back in time from future A, but now she's lived a life that's lead to future B, where Daniel is a musician, not a physicist. That's how she knows about the 2 realities.

Posted by: the new transported man at April 7, 2010 12:10 PM

I'm confused why Desmond was so amenable to just happily tagging along with evil-Sayid.

I wondered about that too - thinking it over, I feel that Desmond (after his flashes) realized he is on a fix it mission, and that he is somehow following his internal leads. Basically, his island self may not know exactly what's going on, but he feels he will be led along the right path - OR - he knows already where he is headed. Just because we don't know doesn't mean he doesn't. So whereas he was fighting being brought back to the island when he first arrived, after his flashes and realizations, he is comfortable just going for the ride now, and knows he is supposed to be there to do something specific.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 12:18 PM

Random note that I couldn't fit into the recap: The electromagnet shed reminded me of the giant raptor cage from the opening scene of Jurassic Park. I really wanted Zoe to get zapped and go crazy so Widmore could yell, "Shoot her! SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT HERRRR!"

Posted by: Daniel Carlson at April 7, 2010 12:19 PM

Additionally, people that were there in 1977, but that stayed in 1977 following the explosion, should remember everything as it was. Alt-Roger Linus still worked at Dharma. Ben might not remember getting shot by Sayid in 1977 because 1977 Richard took him to the temple. Widmore should remember everything that happened up until 1977, but in the alt-reality, he wasn't booted from the island by Ben. There should be an alt-Richard that's suspicious of how the alt-reality has progressed, if he's not at the bottom of the Pacific.

Posted by: the new transported man at April 7, 2010 12:20 PM

I like that it was romantic love (as opposed to say parental or familial)

I don't know about that, as I think Eloise's love for her son is what led her to try to make sure that Desmond didn't find out about anything in the LAX timeline. That was what I thought, anyway.

Could be just me, though. I am a little dumb sometimes...

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 12:22 PM

Oh,Logar. Nice catch. I didn't notice 2 paintings, and I keep missing the damn reflections, too.

Daniel Carlson, I love you, you son of a bitch. That made me spit Diet Dr. Pepper on my keyboard.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 7, 2010 12:31 PM

I absolutely loved this episode. There's just something about Penny and Desmond's story that completely guts you; they've been driven apart so many times and for so long, and when they're together they're just so damn perfect. A seriously fantastic bit of casting here-- those two have so much chemistry they light the screen on fire.

Darth, I think it's a matter of Desmond infiltrating the MIB's camp somehow? At least that's what I figured. He's got to stop MIB in some way. All in his mission to fix whatever the hell went wrong.

Posted by: figgy at April 7, 2010 12:33 PM

I think Eloise's special status (and divine creepiness) would exempt her from my theory Anna.

I wondered if Desmond was content because he understands now that in each reality he gets to be with Penny. Admittedly, she is kind of far away at the moment.

I was wondering if the primary seminal event in the story is not the nuclear explosion but the hatch blowing. All the fussin' and a feudin' about EM would tend to support that.

As someone who has MRI's of my brain on a fairly regular basis, I want to say that Desmond got off easy. Where I go, not only do they put that cage thingy over your face THEY STRAP YOUR HEAD IN PLACE FIRST to make sure you don't move and give you headphones to further immobilize you. It's like being Gulliver in a Lilliputian airplane.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 12:34 PM

Kolby - Thank you for the mirror count. I always forget.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 12:35 PM

Here's the forum post on a theory explaining the ALT, and other stuff:

http://forum.lostpedia.com/can-explain-sideways-timeline-t50825.html

Considering last night's episode, I thing this theory just crossed into spoiler territory. Prepare to have your mind BLOWN!

As I said before, this might be the best explanation we get, because it's way too dense for general consumption, and will have to be dumbed down to be understandable to non-theoretical physicists.

Posted by: logar at April 7, 2010 12:37 PM

For Cree83, from Lostpedia:

Constant - "when a consciousness travels back and forth through time, it needs a constant to latch on to. A constant is an object or person that exists in both periods of time, that the traveler deeply cares about and could recognize. If a constant is not found, the oscillations between different times will become more frequent and chaotic until the individual dies from what appears to be a severe brain aneurysm."

So basically, when someone jumps around in time, they need something that holds over from one place to another to anchor their brain or it'll go all bouncy & kill them. That's how I see it, at least.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at April 7, 2010 12:40 PM

Calling it right now:

the purpose of the second reality is to bring back a John Locke to fight the Enemy.

Posted by: mightygodking at April 7, 2010 12:42 PM

Great episode. And maybe I'm slow but I didn't see the flashback to the Looking Glass coming when Charlie drove him and Desmond into the ocean. Right at the same time that Charlie raised his hand to reveal the "not Penny's boat" message my dog came up and surreptitiously nuzzled my hand. The combination of the two scared the crap out of me.

And thanks for the speedy recaps Dan. They're guaranteed to keep me completely unproductive each and every Wednesday morning.

Posted by: katy at April 7, 2010 12:44 PM

mightygodking: that. would. blow. my. MIND.

Posted by: figgy at April 7, 2010 12:44 PM

YES, Daniel! I said, "Did they find the old set of Jurassic Park and decide to have a little fun?"

Question for you Dan: Do you personally not see/agree with the significance of the mirrors? You never mention those moments in your recaps, and I wonder if it is in the interest of saving time (you can't go over tons of details), or if it is because you don't see what is the big deal?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 12:45 PM

gives him a panic button to push if the numbers reach zero

Nice, Dan.

Episodes like this one remind me why I watch this crazy show. And not enough can be said about Henry Ian Cusick & Sonya Walger's amazing chemistry.

I cannot WAIT to see what happens when Desmond reaches MIB's camp. I agree with Cindy & Figgy - he may not know EXACTLY what's going on but he knows something's wrong and he has to fix it, so he's just going with the flow and that's why he followed Sayid.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at April 7, 2010 12:47 PM

It's like being Gulliver in a Lilliputian airplane.

Thank you, Mrs Julien, for that wonderfully illustrated - and creepy as fuck - analogy. For some reason, it gave me serious heebie jeebies...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 12:48 PM

Ya, it's not pleasant Patty. You achieve a zen state quickly
though as if you move it just takes longer.

Am I still allowed to say "that's she said"? I really want to.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 12:53 PM

And not enough can be said about Henry Ian Cusick & Sonya Walger's amazing chemistry.

Yes, and it only brings into stark contrast the COMPLETE lack of chemistry between her and Joseph Fiennes on Flash Forward.

Posted by: Drake at April 7, 2010 12:55 PM

I think Anna von mega sharktopus (http://themcdevittstudio.com/clubhouse/sharktopus1.jpg) is right.
I didn't (yet) establish how everything is connected in this episode, but I think it's safe to assume parallel universe travel or time travel have the same consequences on people. They get this weird and inexplicable familiarity feeling. Eloise knew Daniel on some level, not just because she saw him when she was a young badass, but because she felt related to him.

Posted by: rg at April 7, 2010 1:01 PM

Don't remember where I read it, but in the original Pilot Jack was wrestling with himself in the jungle. Locke fighting Locke might not be too far off.

Posted by: Stew at April 7, 2010 1:08 PM

do you think the test widmore performed on desmond was similar to the test performed on sayid by dogen?

also, when des asked widmore what he knew about sacrifice, widmore said his son died here for the sake of the island. at first i thought perhaps he meant jacob or mib, but maybe he just meant faraday?

that driveshaft song was wretched.
for a minute i thought they'd take charlie and put him in the mental ward with hurley.

did anybody else get spooked by sayid when he said "Run." to zoe? also, did anyone else wish that sayid would've just f'n shot her?

i think desmond has reached 'enlightenment' which is why he's acting so serene. wish he'd let widmore explain the mission anyway tho.

Posted by: gem at April 7, 2010 1:19 PM

Back to the EM box - I kept thinking about Locke's dad and how he mysteriously showed up on the island in a big brown box and seemed rather confused as to how he got there. Could that be the same box?? Could this explain how so many things showed up on the island at random?

Posted by: Kathleen Gutierrez at April 7, 2010 1:21 PM

Chemistry aside, if I was running around an empty stadium at night by myself and a well-dressed, goofy smiling dude came straight up to me, I'd be reaching for the mace and my cell phone. And most women I know would do the same. Of course, most of us also wouldn't be exercising in a stadium at night alone, either.

But I loved the episode--first great one in a long while. Desmond's rage face was AWESOME. And I'm guessing he goes along quietly with Ninja Zombie Sayid because he just saw the guy break necks and drop bodies without a trace of emotion or his former personality. Clearly, weird shit is going on, and there's no point in arguing with someone who can kill so casually and with such ease. He can try to escape later.

I'm always happy to see Charlie, even if he's cynical, bitter, angry, suicidal, and rhapsodizing about seeing true love.

I must be the only person in existence who finds MRIs soothing. The noise just turns into white noise for me, and I feel cozy and tucked in and usually just wind up dozing until it's over. The last time they pulled me out I was yawning and stretching and the guy just shook his head in disbelief. They were running hours behind because the poor woman before me kept freaking out and hitting the panic button. Mrs. Julien is right about how easy it is to achieve a Zen state when you have to remain completely immobile, but not if you're claustrophobic.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 7, 2010 1:23 PM

did anybody else get spooked by sayid when he said "Run." to zoe? also, did anyone else wish that sayid would've just f'n shot her?

Hell, yes. I'm so very tired of her character already. I figured he didn't since he was afraid it might spook Desmond.

Posted by: Drake at April 7, 2010 1:24 PM

just skimming comments now, but i09 has some good ideas, too.

http://io9.com/5511351/15-things-we-learned-in-last-nights-lost

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 7, 2010 1:24 PM

rg, it is because Eloise IS related to Daniel...

Stew, it was an easter egg on the DVD for Season 1.

Yeah gem, I wondered about Sayid pardoning Zoe as well. In his badass numbness, why would he feel capacity for grace? Especially since she is soooo obnoxious?

!!! THE MAGIC BOX!!! Kathleen, you shot me with mind bullets!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 1:26 PM

Yes, gem, I also was hoping Sayid would shoot her, and I don't get why he didn't. Now she can run back and warn the others. I don't know why her character annoys me so much, given that she has so little to do. Maybe it's the messy hair or the glasses, or her weirdly tanned face contrasting with her pale lips. I want to give her a makeover.

And I'm sure Widmore meant Daniel when he talked about his dead son. Eloise and Widmore were an item on the island at one point.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 7, 2010 1:27 PM

I know what you mean, DeadBessie, about the alone-at-night-with-stranger-approaching scenario. Even though I knew it was safe, I still felt really tense. Why would you do that? Are there no psychos or rapists in this alternate universe? I don't know, but it baffled me.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 1:30 PM

Did anyone catch the latest Fringe episode in which Walter creates a wormhole? I haven’t seen this episode, but I keep hearing everywhere that you could see an island on the other side of the wormhole. I’m curious if anyone here watched this episode and associated it with LOST.

Posted by: Scully at April 7, 2010 1:30 PM

http://themcdevittstudio.com/clubhouse/sharktopus1.jpg

I am TOTALLY re-appropriating this for me Facebook picture. SWEEEEET!

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 1:32 PM

Yes, please, Zombid, kill sweaty Tina Fey. Her 15 minutes are up.

Bran cereal kid continues to be fun, though...

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 7, 2010 1:34 PM

I don't think i09 has got everything right. It's not that the LAverse is devoid of love, it's that every character who met on the island and felt a strong connexion to each other (like love) are not supposed to meet. If Jack were to meet Kate, if Claire were to meet Charlie, they all, I don't know, "synchronize" with their constant and they could travel through space, like Desmond did.

It's a theory, but I guess, this would result in a shitstorm.

Posted by: rg at April 7, 2010 1:37 PM

This was indeed a fantastic episode and I love the Desmond and Penny storyline and that they always come back to each other.

Kolby, I like your idea that the LAX timeline may be a place where the Losties greatest desires are coming to fruition. I think that would be a good way to explain why they're still all popping up in the same city and in each other's lives.

Also, did anyone else notice that in the LAX timeline Penny's last name is Milton? It made me think of Paradise Lost, which is about Adam and Eve's banishment from the Garden of Eden. Which also makes me think that the theory that the Adam and Eve bones in the cave are in fact Desmond and Penny. Or maybe I'm reading something from nothing, who knows with this show.

Great recap as usual Dan!

Posted by: Even Stevens at April 7, 2010 1:39 PM

Patty and DeadBessie - I totally agree. I don't care how lucious his manlocks are, a random guy approaching me at night is not greeted calmly.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 1:39 PM

Ha, dammitjanet, every time Bran cereal kid is on screen, I yell "Chip!" He has such a baby face - he still looks like he did on "Kate & Allie" and that was how many years ago, like 20? 25?

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at April 7, 2010 1:41 PM

I was thinking about Cooper in the box last night as well. Remember how Ben said it was a magic box and that anything one wanted could be brought to the island?

But when I think about it now, it seems likely that Ben had no idea how it was happening. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I do. Cooper must have been Smokey, right? So did Sawyer kill a body that Smokey inhabited when MIB could still take the forms of different people (i.e. Christian)? And because it was Smokey, the real Cooper was never there? Or did Ben actually bring a real Cooper back through his magic closet? Or did Richard bring him? Not that any of that stuff will ever be answered.

Oh and even though that's the connection my mind made to the box, I don't think it's the same box and I don't think Cooper was brought electromagnetically. But what about those time traveling bunnies?

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 1:48 PM

I figured Cooper was brought to the island via submarine. Ben was just trying to fuck with John Locke with all that magic box crap.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 1:48 PM

De rien Anna

And Patty, again fuck my faulty english but I know they're son and mother, I was just saying that, either it's time travel or whatever Desmond experienced on last night episode, they feel connected if there's a strong feeling between them. that's why Sawyer let Kate go for example, and that's why Eloise felt weird after killing her son and wanted to fix that mistake. it's plausible that she know about the two universe, and despite her inherent creepiness, she just want her son to be safe.

Also, Juliet probably experienced the same thing that Desmond did, and maybe it's because of Sawyer

Posted by: rg at April 7, 2010 1:50 PM

I don't get the greatest wishes thing Kolby. Kate and Charlie - doesn't work. Jack is unhappy - separated from the mother of his child and not really in his child's life. Sayid isn't with Nadia.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 1:52 PM

Also, did anyone else notice that in the LAX timeline Penny's last name is Milton? It made me think of Paradise Lost, which is about Adam and Eve's banishment from the Garden of Eden. Which also makes me think that the theory that the Adam and Eve bones in the cave are in fact Desmond and Penny. Or maybe I'm reading something from nothing

Even Stevens, you can never over-analyze Lost - that's what makes it great (for nerds)! And I think that is a fascinating, and completely plausible (for Lost) option. Especially if the Next Gen end up on the Island somehow (I will not let this go until the credits roll on the finale).

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 1:53 PM

If we are to believe LAX-Daniel (and we have far too little time left not to take what any character says at face value), then it would seem the LAX universe is "wrong." This almost leads to the question of what is even the point of LAX-Desmond meeting LAX-Penny. LAX-Desmond seems to think there is something to be gained by gathering up the passengers of 815, so maybe something will have to be done from that reality instead of the Island reality that has all the electromagnetic Island mechanisms.

And yet, things truly do seem to be much better there for almost everyone. That leads me to wonder if things will definitively go to hell in that universe with a Smoke Monster world-killing reveal, although I'm also wondering if the Smoke Monster's escape wouldn't just be a world-killer but an all-alternate-realities-killer. Or are we going to get a rather downer ending in which those alternate happy endings are snuffed out of existence?

If the LAX universe must cease to exist and someone has to take up the mantle of Jacob, I'd say this pretty much confirms that Jack should be the one for the job. He's the one that pushed the nuclear bomb plan, and thus he should take responsibility and play martyr for creating and then destroying those LAX happy endings.

Although...if noble Hurley took the job as a show of generosity so that Jack could go have his happy ending with Kate in the Island universe, that could be fairly satisfying.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 1:54 PM

Kolby, I hear you about Cooper and the submarine. I sincerely doubt that box was there before anyway, I was just having fun. Although, it is interesting for it to be right outside Room 23.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 1:56 PM

Cindy >> I do think it was the real Cooper. It's just not satisfying from a storytelling standpoint if it wasn't. Also, we've seen other evidence outside of the Donkey Wheel for easy and quick travel to and from the Island. (See Mr. Friendly's visit to Michael.) How? Yeah, we probably won't ever find out. I mean - if it was that easy - why not just go kidnap a spinal surgeon? There would have to be some sort of logistical limitations, but it seems very arbitrary.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 2:00 PM

Cindy - I'm going by what Eloise said. I think there was much to be culled from her little speech to Desmond last night.

Also, I think it's important to remember that Widmore and crew are not on the island. They're on Hydra island, and I don't think that's what they're all fighting over/for.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 2:01 PM

I don't see why either timeline *must* cease to exist. Why couldn't there just be multiple layers of timeline? Like an infinite worlds theory or something? Like, there's a world that has no shrimp, and at the same time, there's a world with nothing but shrimp...

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 2:03 PM

They're on Hydra for the power generator, and possibly because it's easier to defend. Their main goal is to locate and access one of the EM anomalies on the main island. At least that's my impression!

Posted by: logar at April 7, 2010 2:08 PM

Scully, I did watch that Fringe episode but I didn't notice an island through the wormhole. I'm not the most observant of people, though. The wormhole was connecting the same place in two different time periods, and they were in the middle of a small ice-covered lake with the shore nearby, so maybe people mistook it for an island, even though the site had already been established as Walter's vacation home. I really doubt it has any connection to Lost; Fringe has enough of its own mysteries and mythology without borrowing from Lost.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 7, 2010 2:08 PM

@Patty and DeadBessie - I totally agree.

I was just thinking how funny it was that we are questioning Penny's reaction
at the stadium. Time travelling bunnies are no problem, but a calm response
to a stranger? Well, of course not. That would be ridiculous!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 2:11 PM

@Patty: It's not that I don't notice the mirror moments in the non-crash timeline; I'm just not convinced that they're anything more at this point than a stylistic play on the dual nature of this season. I think they're important in the sense that they highlight the emotional split and the fact that there are now two worlds that will have to be reconciled, but since these moments tend to be related more to the emotion of the narrative than any actual event -- and since they're pretty much always the same (a character looks at him or herself in a mirror) -- I tend to blow through them. Now, if Jack or someone in the non-crash world stared into a mirror and had a glimpse of their original-timeline self? Different story. For now, though, I think it's just a nod to the story structure.

Posted by: Daniel Carlson at April 7, 2010 2:14 PM

@Anna That comment was a Buffy Summers bonus!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 2:21 PM

No, Jarsh, you are not the only one who did not enjoy this episode. It tried as hard as it could to ruin all my goodwill for some of my very favorite characters (except Jack, who always sucks and always will no matter what, when, where, or how). The dialogue was shit. Literally every single character said something as dumb as fuck.

Charlie: "Love crosses dimensions!"

Whidmore: "You lucky bachelor!"

Eloise: "I'm a cryptic bitch!"

Jack: "You seem reasonable!"

Penny: "You don't look rape-y!"

Faraday: "I love a slut transdimensionally and I set off nukes in other realities!"

Desmond: "No I do not want a hooker!"

I was beyond pumped (literally cheering) when Sayid busted out of the ass of this episode and said "Fuck this episode. I'm ending shit now," in an entirely nonchalant but not-amused kind of way.

Seriously, the showrunners have six weeks until I punch a dick.

Posted by: coryo at April 7, 2010 2:25 PM

a young Eloise Hawking was on the island, killed a man that she discovered to be her son from the future, & shortly thereafter, the bomb exploded. So in the alt-reality that ensues, Eloise lives to be an old woman, & over time sees that the future course has been changed. More specifically, she killed Daniel in 1977, saw his journal, & verified that he'd traveled back in time from future A, but now she's lived a life that's lead to future B, where Daniel is a musician, not a physicist. That's how she knows about the 2 realities.

I like this idea from the appropriately named New Transported Man. Last week I asked why those characters who were on the island when the bomb exploded weren't dead in the alternate time line... so apparently they survived and left the island somehow, and therefore have some knowledge of the crazy shit that went on there? This would be Ben, Eloise, Charles Widmore, and possibly Richard. Everyone else either left on the sub, died, or is of little consequence, right? (oh yeah, and the small matter of what happened to Jacob and MIB)

Also, Kolby, you are blowing my mind with new insights. It certainly looks like the Alternate time line lacks legitimacy and the original, island timeline is somehow more real.

I can't wait for a Hurley episode next week. Awesome!


Posted by: Yossarian at April 7, 2010 2:31 PM

coryo, while I don't agree, I did laugh my ass off (particularly at Penny and Daniel's "translated" comments). But you can make every episode of Lost sound equally ridiculous if you want to.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 7, 2010 2:31 PM

Anna >> I agree with you. Theoretically an ending with both universes remaining in existence is very possible. I'm just saying that last night - based on Daniel's statements - I received the vibe that this might not be the route they're going.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 2:33 PM

I will give you that, DeadBessie. But they've shown that they can do so much better. Especially (especially!) with Desmond-centric episodes. Particularly when he's quantum leaping.

Posted by: coryo at April 7, 2010 2:39 PM

, there's a world with nothing but shrimp...
First of all, Anna von, I love you.
Secondly, let us travel to this world, and rule with three tines!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 2:41 PM

Yossarian and New Transported Man >> Yeah, I'm not seeing it that way. As convinced by Kolby a few weeks ago, I'm a believer in the third universe theory. What we're seeing in the LAX universe is not simply what happens in a timeline starting in 1977 after the bomb goes off. It's a separate reality in which none of the time-traveling or Jacob-influenced events (some of which occurred well before 1977) ever happened.

That said, for Cindy's reasons I'm not buying this "greatest wishes" theory. I think Eloise just threw that bit about wanting to be in Widmore's good graces at Desmond to try to divert him from Penny.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 2:41 PM

It feels like eventually, the “original” timeline will have to overpower the new one, though how, when, why, or in what way remain a mystery.

I hope it does, because I like my Charlies original-flavor, i.e., DEAD.

Daniel tells Desmond about falling in love at first sight with a redhead that might be Charlotte

MIGHT be? Of course it was. The description of her blue eyes and red hair made it obvious, even besides the whole twu-wuv thing.

The difficulty Desmond had in finding Charlie in the hospital annoyed me. He wasn't asking for Charlie's medical history, he just wanted to know what room he was in. But you've got Nurse Ratched there, giving him a hard time just so Jack can show up for five seconds and the show can pad out its run-time.

Posted by: Todd at April 7, 2010 2:44 PM

I can get on board with that point, Daniel, re the mirrors. I think the reason I get fired up over it is that, at least in the first few eps (Jack and Kate, specifically), they seemed to have an odd moment of recognition or confusion.

And coryo, thank you for reminding me to find Quantum Leap online!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 2:45 PM

Damn, now coryo made me wish that just ONCE Desmond would "leap" thru the timey-wimey stuff, and look around, see whatever the crap is going on....then look into the camera and say, "Oh, boy...."

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 7, 2010 2:54 PM

I don't know, Patty O'. I feel I would tire of that one quickly.

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 2:55 PM

Todd >> The can't-find-Charlie ruckus at least served one red herring purpose for me: I briefly wondered if perhaps Desmond had hallucinated Charlie altogether. I'm not really up for red herrings at this point, though, so I agree it was pretty worthless.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 2:59 PM

Kolby, you don't think Widmore's end goal is the island? I certainly do, though I think it's with a side of keep Penny and Desmond apart. And he also seems to be aware of what will happen if MIB gets off island. So I disagree once again (surprise!) that he isn't trying to protect the island - but I also don't think his purposes are less than nefarious. Now what specifically did Eloise say that made you think everyone's lives are better? She told Desmond he'd gotten what he always wanted - Widmore's approval? That's not what Des always wanted - Penny is. And Eloise clearly wants Desmond away from Penny as well. I don't trust her any more than Widmore.

Cooper could have been brought by sub for sure. Or magic closet.

And yet, things truly do seem to be much better there for almost everyone.

I must be watching a different show. Kate is still a fugitive on the run. Jack is still unhappy, has a kid and an ex wife, no good relationship.

Sawyer is on the right side of the law but still haunted by his mother's murder.

Sayid is not with the love of his life, but he is forced to deal with watching her be with his brother.

Agree with Daniel on mirror significance. I think we're meant to realize that people are seeing "reflections" of their real selves in the sideways.

And I do think the timelines have to resolve, or will resolve.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 3:00 PM

I very much thought Henry Ian Cusick would have made an awesome Doctor Who. That said, Matt Smith is looking excellent after one episode.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 3:04 PM

Alright, best episode of the season, right? Any Penny and Desmond episode is automatically the bomb (no Faraday-esque pun intended), and I applaud the writers for being able to tell this story over and over and over. Will Desmond and Penny get together. . .AGAIN? I still care!!!!! Do it again! I'll watch it.

I really like the idea presented this evening of the alt-timeline being constructed in a way to keep the Losties content and docile. I've been bouncing this theory around with some friends and the best analogy I could come up with (forgive me, it's dreadful) is in the Labyrinth (I know, I apologize), when Jennifer Connolly is lured into something resembling her bedroom at home which is filled with "everything she could-or thought she wanted." All her toys, etc. But it's just trash, right? And what she REALLY wants, is her brother. So she tears the thing down to escape and find Bowie and his distracting crotch bulge. I'm SURE there are much more literary and high-brow analogies, but this one keeps coming back to me.

The question is, is Eloise the Architect of this alt-Universe? It would seem she had a hand in it, no? And she's invested in preserving it-whereas Widmore seems invested in destroying it. HOWEVER, Eloise mentioned "you're not ready" to Desmond, and we know that Widmore had to movie his timeline up-what with the premature capturing of Jin/the Raptor Box wasn't ready, etc. etc. So perhaps, and I would love this, perhaps Eloise and Charles Widmore are working in cahoots. She sets 'em up, he knocks 'em down. Not sure what Eloise would be waiting for, though. They're not done baking yet? (Buffy/Doctor Who reference-double nerd combo!)

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 3:20 PM

Also, I wich we had a longer season so we could have perfectly "normal" sideways flash episodes where people are having meaningful journeys and discovering deeply concerning things about their lives and each other only to have Desmond burst in 15 min towards the end of the episode bellowing, "You're going to almost die brutha!!!" as he nearly kills them in order to bring them to a state of understanding. A new method each week! Toaster in the bath! Pillow on the face! This would be especially entertaining for us in, say, a Kate episode. "Don't hold back, Des! Hit her with a cricket bat a few more times!!"

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 3:30 PM

Oh, they're definitely in cahoots, coveredinbees.

I like your Labyrinth theory, though I've never seen the movie.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 3:30 PM

Crazy theory to throw out: Eloise isn't "Eloise" at all. She's some sort of goddess on the level of Jacob and the Smoke Monster. Perhaps she's a chronicler, an arbiter, or someone whose job it is to maintain balance. At this point, there really are only four characters left that seem to know a substantially important amount of information more than the viewers: Jacob, the Smoke Monster, Widmore, and Eloise. Eloise just knows far too much. (And by this logic, could Widmore be as well?)

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 3:32 PM

Or Eloise is a Time Lord and the Lamppost Station is her TARDIS. It's totally bigger on the inside. (Can you TELL I just watched the new episode of Who last night? Can you TELL I loved it?) Let's check her for two heartbeats.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 3:35 PM

Cindy, I TOTALLY believe Widmore's goal is to grab control of the island. I just wanted to clear up that he and his crew are currently on Hydra island, which, I'm pretty certain, lacks the supernatural powers of the main island. I was saying that in response to the theories that the electromagnet box-y thinger is actually the magic box that Ben referenced a few seasons back.

I don't get the greatest wishes thing Kolby. Kate and Charlie - doesn't work. Jack is unhappy - separated from the mother of his child and not really in his child's life. Sayid isn't with Nadia.

I didn't say, and neither did Eloise, that ALL their wishes would come true in the LA X timeline, only that their GREATEST wish would. Sayid's greatest wish may not have been to be with Nadia, but rather simply that Nadia be alive and well. Jack's greatest wish, and I don't think I'm reaching here, as it's been pretty well established, is to avoid making the same mistakes as his own father. He succeeded with David. I think the LA X timeline is a second chance, an opportunity for the characters to right some wrong or change one thing about their lives, something that would prevent the one thing they regret the most about their lives from happening. It doesn't mean they'll be happy - look at Ben, his life actually seems pretty shitty, but he was able to right his greatest wrong. It's a second chance, a not-quite-clean slate, an opportunity to change one thing. It seems, though, that it's just not meant to be.

Whatever happened, happened. You know?

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 3:39 PM

Darth - remember that Eloise was actually the Leader of the Others? She had contact with Jacob. She's known far more than anyone else for years. I'm really curious to find out why exactly she left the island, and when. Maybe after she killed her own son she left to raise him in the real world.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 3:42 PM

At this point, there really are only four characters left that seem to know a substantially important amount of information more than the viewers: Jacob, the Smoke Monster, Widmore, and Eloise. Eloise just knows far too much. (And by this logic, could Widmore be as well?)

Do we know everything Ilana knows? Is all her information: find the candidates and protect them? I suppose she admitted as much in the Kwon episode and is now looking to Richard for guidance.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 3:46 PM

I think Widmore's plan and Desmond's 'sacrifice' has to do with his easily going along with Sayid.

The plan was to go with Sayid and interact with Smokey.

Posted by: Fuel at April 7, 2010 3:53 PM

Oh, I don't want Eloise to be a Time Lord!!!

Glad to hear good things about the new Doctor. I've put off watching up to now....

I do, however, like DarthCorleone's theory that MAYBE she is not just past Leader of the Others, but something much more important all together.

And how much do you love that NOBODY who has died on this show is completely written out...except maybe Nikki and Paulo....

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 7, 2010 3:55 PM

Is Eloise a sybil?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 4:08 PM

coveredinbees, I don't need no high-fallutin' "high-brow analogies", as long as I've got you, my Constant. And frankly, I think the Labyrinth analogy is golden. Right about the time I got to "distracting crotch bulge", I a) nearly spewed coffee on my keyboard, and b) knew it was you. ;)

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 7, 2010 4:11 PM

Also, it seems that Eloise's departure was not accompanied by Ben or
Widmore's walk of shame. She is more linked to the island than either
of them that way.

I've always thought that Widmore's goal was to harness the power of the
island in some way. And perfect his glower, but I think that is a given.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 7, 2010 4:14 PM

Razzle dazzle! lmao! I'm glad those two morons are dead!

The magic box was just a theory of mine and I can't shake it. I'm watching season 3 all over again to see if I can't pick something up off the Desmond nakie episode. That's the one where he starts flashing. So far I've seen Locke in the sweat lodge where he sees all the characters in the airport; Sun is fighting with Jin and Sayid is stopping it, Kate and Sawyer are together, Jack is alone, Hurley is controlling the reservations (the list) and punching in the numbers, Desmond is the pilot!!! Foreshadowing? Maybe.

Faraday's triangle has me thinking - If the two timelines, current and flashforward are the sides, and "imaginary time" is the bottom like in his drawing, then it looks as though the flash sideways is the red herring. The other two timelines will converge, just like the top of a triangle, and all the insides will fade away.

Posted by: Kathleen Gutierrez at April 7, 2010 4:15 PM

Meep! Patty, I love you! Even if you wouldn't go for coffee with a fainting, Scottish stranger. Come on! You two could go dutch!

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 4:23 PM

Could it be that what Widmore keeps going on about (everything they know ceasing to exist if MIB escapes) actually means that the LAX timeline will take over the island one (island timeline ceasing to exist)?

I cant help but feel that the LAX timeline could actually be what the MIB promised Sayid - what if this is an example of what he is offering people, a 'false life' with wishes apparently granted? (and maybe turning on the wisher eventually - like if Sun indeed loses the baby)

Hard to put these ideas to writing

Posted by: MBernat at April 7, 2010 4:29 PM

MBernat, isn't it though? Time travel, alt universes! I agree that the LAX timeline mirrors some of the things Smokey seems to be offering, but Widmore keeps saying (and I don't know why but I believe him) that if Smokey escapes everyone will "cease to be," Penny, little Charlie, Sun, Ji-Yeon and "everyone we love or care about." It's that emphasis on cease to be that has me interested. Because in the LAX timeline, those people are there (well not the babies. . .yet. . .good luck, Sun). Have they merely "ceased to be" in the island timeline. The alt-versions don't count? Perhaps.

I still think, though, that the Smokey off the island scenario hasn't been shown to us. Rather, I believe Faraday (HOW MANY TIMES DID THEY SHOW US THE BACK OF HIS GREASY HEAD LAST NIGHT BEFORE HE WAS REVEALED IN ALL HIS NECK-BEARDED GLORY? Please, Lost producers, stoppit with the "surprise" reveal crap) when he says the alt-universe is a result of setting off the bomb. Which is not related to Smokey's escape. . .I THINK.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 4:40 PM

Kolby, ok - gotcha on the other island business.

Jack's greatest wish, and I don't think I'm reaching here, as it's been pretty well established, is to avoid making the same mistakes as his own father. He succeeded with David.

I think you're really stretching here. And clearly, Des's greatest wish is not for Widmore's approval.

Sorry to be so disagreeable! You know I love you.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 4:41 PM

Or it's somehow what they think they want, or what Eloise or whomever thought would keep them contained. But what they really want is LOVE. . .LOVE. . .LOVE. It lifts us up where we belong.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 4:43 PM

I don't know if I'm stretching, Jack's always regretted his relationship with his dad. David is his chance to be the father his dad never was to him.

And Widmore's approval is the one thing Desmond never had in his REAL life. He has Penny's love, he has little Charlie, but Widmore's approval was the one thing he was never able to win.

Posted by: Kolby at April 7, 2010 4:57 PM

Kolby >> Yeah, I recall Eloise's status as leader. We never did learn how much contact she personally had with Jacob. I don't know if she had any greater knowledge of the dominant forces of the Island at that point than Ben ever did (which we later learned was just about zero). She was convincingly naive when we saw her in the 50s and the 70s, and a lot of things presumably happened to her in those 30 years in between, but still those two encounters with Desmond (in this episode and "Flashes Before Your Eyes") seem preternatural in nature. For her to be ahead of the curve in the Island universe is one thing, but to be that in the know in the LAX universe demands some sort of exceptional explanation.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 5:05 PM

Sorry to be so obnoxiously prolific in my posts, folks. But I love me some Desmond. I just do. Anyway, an idea I had about Widmore was that perhaps his desire to keep Desmond from Penny was born from his (somewhat shadowy) knowledge of Desmond's role in the events to come. Both Widmore and Eloise have told Desmond the island wasn't through with him-Widmore, via Tom (right, Tom?) told the same thing to Michael I think. So it would appear you're right, Darth, in that Eloise and Widmore have some deep knowledge of events, and have had for awhile. So maybe Widmore ought not to be thought of as the heavy. Perhaps he was so horrid to Desmond in order to not only protect his daughter but encourage, Jacob-style, Desmond's eventual shipwreck on the Island?

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 5:13 PM

I read this idea elsewhere: maybe it's less a "greatest wish" and more of a monkey's paw sort of situation in which you have a wish fulfilled but there's an undesirable twist involved.

That is:

Nadia is alive, but Sayid is not with her.
Kate has reunited Claire and Aaron, but it's at the expense of her freedom.
Alex is alive with a promising future, but Ben has no power.
Sun and Jin are finally reunited, but it might be at the cost of ever having a child.

I just thought it was an interesting idea. I'm not sure if you could successfully extend it to every character.

I tend to not think of it in those terms, though. It works thematically, but I'm guessing it's not the explicit purpose or intent of this alternate universe. I just see it as a sort of side effect, i.e., this is everything that happens - for better or worse - when you remove the effects of the Island, the crash, the hatch, and Jacob. Take it or leave it.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 6:03 PM

I think that the success and appeal of Desmond's character is the result of one unlikely fact: he is consistently the only consistent character left on Lost, despite time traveling and the fact that he wasn't one of the "original original" characters. Oh, and because we all would like to watch him masturbate. Just me? I doubt it.

Posted by: sheshakes at April 7, 2010 6:13 PM

Calling it right now:
the purpose of the second reality is to bring back a John Locke to fight the Enemy.
mightygodking

Unless of course,

the Locke in the alternate reality is an escaped MiB

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 6:38 PM

Patty and DeadBessie - I totally agree. I don't care how lucious his manlocks are, a random guy approaching me at night is not greeted calmly. Mrs. Julien

Yup

Penny seemed oddly calm and at ease -- almost as if she knew this stranger already, as if they had met in a previous life. I'm pretty sure that's what they were going for. Or are you folks just speaking in more general terms? Like a stranger who is not your soulmate from another dimension walks up on you at night?

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 6:49 PM

Yeah, I'd say Penny's oddly accepting reaction to Desmond was caused by the same inter-dimensional comforting deja vu that convinced Claire that it was o.k. to get into a car with an escaped con.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 6:52 PM

"I don't get the greatest wishes thing Kolby. Kate and Charlie - doesn't work. Jack is unhappy - separated from the mother of his child and not really in his child's life. Sayid isn't with Nadia.
Cindy

Well, Charlie's not dead -- that's a plus, also he's run into the love of his life and he's still a rockstar.

Sayid isn't with Nadia, but she isn't dead, and she's happy and safe.

Jack is separated from his wife, but he has a kid (something the other Jack doesn't have) and he seems to be on the way to working things out with his son.


Kate is the biggest stretch. But according to one of the producers, (I don't think this has aired yet, but) in the alternate timeline, Kate is not guilty of killing her father, she killed somebody else. Maybe that alone is her biggest wish?

that's always the genie's trick, isn't it, to give you your heart's desire, but pervert it so that you can't enjoy it?

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:00 PM

"I don't see why either timeline *must* cease to exist. Why couldn't there just be multiple layers of timeline? Like an infinite worlds theory or something? Like, there's a world that has no shrimp, and at the same time, there's a world with nothing but shrimp... Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS

I think Darth mentioned the Dark Tower connections before. Apparently, Cuse & Lindelof are huge fans of the series. Charlie and Desmond's behavior in this episode is so similar to what happens in King's Wasteland, it almost seems like a spoiler to mention it at this point. I haven't read the Dark Tower series, but apparently, the parallels are converging (I mean the parallels between Dark Tower and Lost, but I see the other thing there too).

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:08 PM

Kosmic Koyote >> That's why if you're ever given the opportunity to make wishes by a genie, leprechaun, etc., you should always phrase any wish with the simple modifier "as I would ideally conceive it." Bam! Wish granted with no harmful side effects.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 7:08 PM


"That said, for Cindy's reasons I'm not buying this "greatest wishes" theory. I think Eloise just threw that bit about wanting to be in Widmore's good graces at Desmond to try to divert him from Penny." DarthCorleone

I have to disagree. I think that line of dialog was much too clunky and awkward to be anything other than extremely important. I'd say the odds of it being "only" a poorly written line are less than one perecent.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:15 PM


That's why if you're ever given the opportunity to make wishes by a genie, leprechaun, etc., you should always phrase any wish with the simple modifier "as I would ideally conceive it." Bam! Wish granted with no harmful side effects. DarthCorleon

Dude, if you ever see a leprechaun, just run.

run and don't look back.

never gonna be worth it, red shorty will always gain the upper hand.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:20 PM

I have to disagree. I think that line of dialog was much too clunky and awkward to be anything other than extremely important. I'd say the odds of it being "only" a poorly written line are less than one perecent.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:15 PM

In an episode chock full of poorly written lines? I'd say the percentage is significantly higher.

Posted by: coryo at April 7, 2010 7:21 PM

Kosmic Koyote >> I'd need to rewatch it to determine its "clunkiness." I think the much more important detail in Eloise's rant was the "violation" bit. It's just difficult to imagine a violation when the players don't even know the terms of their agreements or that an agreement for these wishes was even made. I'm going to have a really hard time reconciling the finale of this show if it's dependent upon some sort of Peter Pan / Pinocchio-esque lovey-dovey wish fulfillment gone awry when the characters in this LAX universe aren't even given the ability to learn the lesson at hand.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 7:23 PM

"In an episode chock full of poorly written lines? I'd say the percentage is significantly higher. coryo

Ok, you got me there. : )

"I'd need to rewatch it to determine its "clunkiness." I think the much more important detail in Eloise's rant was the "violation" bit. It's just difficult to imagine a violation when the players don't even know the terms of their agreements or that an agreement for these wishes was even made. " Darth Corleone

Well, I don't think they consciously made wishes. I think (maybe) MiB scanned them and tried to figure out what would keep them "glamoured" and content. It seems to work until the "spell" is broken by true love. (btw, if this shit turns out to be the way they go, sigh, just, fuckin' sigh).

Basically, the last big mystery of the last season seems to be "What is that alternate universe thing?" They have spent the entire season building it up, and now they are starting to give some hints about how the two halves will reconcile. We may not ever get a firm explanation for how they got stuck in the alternate universe, but we seem to be getting the start of how they will get out.

The characters in the alternate universe appear to be "waking up" or remembering things from the other universe. The only thing we really don't know yet -- is what will happen once they are all gathered together by Desmond, and they all "wake up" together? Does the alternate world just fade away?

or

We know Desmond has to "make a sacrifice." Maybe he has to leap into the air above alternative Los Angeles and fight MiB by trading Superman punches amidst torrential rain and lightning, until he realizes he can't win by force and then allows MiB to absorb him into his smokey body, thereby transcending reality and "balancing the equation." Cut to Eloise sitting on a park bench and enjoying a beautiful sunrise?


Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:46 PM

coveredinbees

never apologize for Labyrinth

EVAR!

young J Connely + giant codpiece Bowie + MC Escher house + Jim Hensen
== Flawless Victory

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 7:52 PM

" I just wanted to clear up that he and his crew are currently on Hydra island, which, I'm pretty certain, lacks the supernatural powers of the main island. " Kolby

I call bullshit! Widmore is the man -- he knows which island to grab.

When he storms Craphole Island next week, it will be in front of an entire army of super-intelligent polar bears armed with time distorting bazookas, riding on the backs of dharma sharks with friggin' lazar gunz duct taped to their heads. If that's not superpowered, I don't know what is.

yesh

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 8:00 PM

Fair point. Bowie's codpiece should never be questioned.

In terms of the Losties "waking up," I'm very curious to see what will happen. The three characters who have woken up to a significant degree (larger than Jack questioning his appendix or Kate pausing over the stuffed whale toy) are Charlie, Daniel and Desmond. Of those three, Desmond is the only one still alive in the Island timeline, so I will be interested to see what affect, if any, this awakening will have on the other significant characters.

Additionally, I'm curious if any of you have an opinion of whether or not Desmond, the Desmond we know, is awake in both timelines. It seemed to me he might be functioning as both Island Des and LAX Des without, as we've seen before, him having to be passed out in one or the other. Just at the end of the episode I mean. Which might explain his rather blank/blissed-out demeanor in following Sayid, etc.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 7, 2010 8:03 PM

I think Darth mentioned the Dark Tower connections before. Apparently, Cuse & Lindelof are huge fans of the series.

If the series finale ends with someone taking a gigantic eraser and literally removing MIB from the world, I'm gonna go on a baby-punching, puppy-kicking rampage the likes of which the world has NEVER seen.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at April 7, 2010 8:06 PM

Kolby, when Jack went to visit his son, it was clear to me that they hadn't had a good relationship at all. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I am having a difficult time placing so much emphasis on the elements of individual stories in the sideways. I feel like what we're supposed to get out of the sideways is that the basic people (Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, Ben, etc.) are who they are, and were always meant to be in each others' lives and connected. I think all the little coincidences and interesting tidbits are just that. But the things these people knew about themselves - Sayid being a killer, Ben being a "good guy", Jack being the flawed hero - those things would always be the same about them. Just like every little thing we saw on the island won't be explained, I think the same will be said of the sideways (in the end). We're on a journey, and not everything will be so significant to the overall story. The little details that we all love to analyze and extrapolate - they're the fun of the journey, but not necessarily so important (the numbers, for an example). I feel like we're supposed to get an overall main course message from the sideways, but not get caught up too much in the side dishes.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 8:17 PM

Does anyone remember in I believe Season One when Claire goes to see the psychic guy about her baby. And he got all freaked out, saying that danger surrounds the baby and that she must take flight 815 to LA. It was a great story line but it has been 'Lost' - any hints that Aaron's part in all this.

Posted by: Stephen Mercer at April 7, 2010 8:25 PM

Cindy >> Well said. On that point, we're in agreement. Could be wrong, of course.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 8:25 PM

But the shrimp! THE SHRIMP!!

Love is, in fact, a many-splendored thing.

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 7, 2010 8:33 PM

Stephen Mercer >> I suppose one could make the argument that Aaron's significance is ultimately tied to Kate's raising him and that her desire to reunite him with Claire is what brought her back to the island, thus partially causing this alternate reality mess. Or it could just be related to the chain of events that were tied to her presence on the island. If she wasn't on that plane, what would have been different in the events that took place? Perhaps that chain of events will eventually lead to making sure the Smoke Monster is locked up, and thus the universe is saved.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 8:45 PM

Kosmic Koyote >> That's exactly what I'm saying. They didn't consciously make wishes, so it seems like weak sauce to pin the responsibility for a wish's consequences on someone who didn't even make the wish (and exists in an alternate reality of which they are not even aware) and expect that lesson to resonate from a storytelling perspective.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 8:50 PM

"That's exactly what I'm saying. They didn't consciously make wishes, so it seems like weak sauce to pin the responsibility for a wish's consequences on someone who didn't even make the wish (and exists in an alternate reality of which they are not even aware) and expect that lesson to resonate from a storytelling perspective." DarthCorleone

I think the only person who made a conscious wish (so to speak) was when Jack wanted to detonate the bomb and erase everything that had happened. Cuse and Lindelof have said that the alternate timeline is about exploring consequences that the characters didn't work out ahead of time. They describe the characters as "selfish."

So, taking what you are saying together with that, I think that means that innocent bystanders suffer because of a choice they didn't make. (then possibly, somebody feels guilty and tries to reverse the reverse).

I'd love for you to expand on your comment about "a lesson that resonates from a storytelling perspective." That sounds interesting. Do you think somebody is going to learn a lesson and be the better for it?

BTW, do you recommend The Dark Tower? If I like Lost and PK Dick and Neil Gaiman, will I like Dark Tower? I just read a blurb for it and they mentioned a cyborg bear, a talking raccoon dog, and a sentient but insane monorail train as villain. This might be ubercool or waay stoopid.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 7, 2010 9:06 PM

coryo>> word. This was some of the clunkiest dialogue ever. Although now I want to just go up to someone and, after exchanging names, jump into a conversation about true love/love at first sight just to see if I don't get punched in the face.

Highlights: Daniel Faraday is back, skinny tie and all. FISHER STEPHENS. Desmond reaching a new level of consciousness in both timelines.

Posted by: kelsy at April 7, 2010 9:26 PM

Kosmic Koyote >> Yeah, regarding the "innocent bystander" element, that's why I mentioned above that I thought it would be most appropriate for Jack to take the Jacob job. His desire was the one that got everyone into this alternate reality mess (if we do determine that it's actually a "mess" as Daniel seemed to indicate), so he might feel compelled to take the responsibility for it.

I think much of storytelling is more satisfying if the characters are involved at a basic level with consequences for their actions and decisions. A character with an arc is almost always more interesting to me than one without one. Visiting a character with some arbitrary happenstance that is completely random as far as their choices are concerned might be realistic and have its place in some narratives, but at a certain point you want some measure of cause of effect.

(Funny - Mr. Morton and I were just discussing cause and effect in that respect as it relates to A Serious Man on another thread the other day.)

If we visit these LAX characters with some sort of vague awareness of the wishes that their alternate selves had and have only an episode or two for that to sink in, I wonder how effective it could be. Maybe the writers have something up their sleeves in that respect that will surprise me. Maybe we project enough of the characters in the original reality upon these alternate selves to be moved by their fates, and it will not matter how much they know. (Certainly I thought they did a very good job in that respect with the Ben and the Locke stories so far.)

I don't know if all our characters are going to learn a strong lesson, but I do think they will all be changed by this adventure.

I love Dark Tower. It's one of my favorite stories. The characters are great, and it has its own language that you might find seeping into your consciousness and personal exchanges. As a reference, I'm a huge Philip K. Dick fan, but Gaiman has never grabbed me (or maybe I haven't given him enough of a chance). I'm sure you already picked up a vibe that the ending might be disappointing, and I won't lie: it sharply divided fans, and it takes several thousands of pages to reach it. I came down on the side that thought it was more or less perfect, though, so you won't hear any negativity from me about it. So, yeah, I recommend it.

Your reference to "a cyborg bear, a talking raccoon dog, and a sentient but insane monorail train as villain" brought a smile to my face. Yes, those are all in there, and they are wonderful. For the record, the adorable raccoon dog doesn't truly "talk." He's more like a parrot.

As a whole, it's sort of a hybrid fantasy-horror-western. It might help if you're a fan of King's other works, but it's not a requirement. As for what other works are referenced, I haven't read much other King myself, and I didn't feel less for it.

Anyway, I'd recommend checking out the first book The Gunslinger. It didn't grab me immediately, but it's a much shorter read than the subsequent books. Once you make your way past the prologue and the first part of the second book The Drawing Of The Three, you should know if you're hooked or not.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 7, 2010 9:36 PM

Could be wrong, of course.

I'm so very aware!

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 9:51 PM

Oh man The Dark Tower rocked my world. I think I might just go back and read it all over again.

Oh oh oh what if Lost ends like DT? I think I'd...I don't know. I'd keel over and die.

Posted by: figgy at April 7, 2010 9:51 PM

Stephen Mercer, for no good reason I feel like we'll get some kind of resolution. That's when the psychic said Aaron musn't be raised by another - and yet - he has been at least part of the time. But then again, if Claire and Aaron are reunited, she could theoretically raise him for most of his life.

Posted by: Cindy at April 7, 2010 9:56 PM

I gave up on Lost a while ago. I loves me some complex, layered big shit going on. Seriously. I was kind of "meh" on The Lord of the Rings until I read The Silmarillion and The Unfinished Tales. Give me a shelf full of interwoven weird and I'm there.

BUT miss one episode of Lost and you're screwed. I may start over with Season 1 on DVD & if that shines, continue through the rest.

Meanwhile, will you stop with the Firefly shout-outs. It still burns.

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at April 7, 2010 11:15 PM

If we visit these LAX characters with some sort of vague awareness of the wishes that their alternate selves had and have only an episode or two for that to sink in, I wonder how effective it could be.

If anything, I feel like the conflict will come from them deciding if they want to "go back." Although, if they start to remember, maybe they won't have a choice.

I think I'll check out Dark Tower, just to see. Seems like its popular enough with people who like what I like. I used to read Stephen King all the time when I was younger, but haven't in a long time. I loved The Stand.

As far as Gaiman goes, he's a little hit or miss. I haven't read all of his stuff, but I liked everything about American Gods except for the sort of anti-climax ending. I wasn't impressed with Stardust, but I really liked Good Omens and I really really liked Neverwhere. I guess I like Gaiman when he's writing about creepy fantasy stuff seeping into the real world.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 8, 2010 1:37 AM

So basically, if Eloise and Widmore know everything (though I have to disagree with you coveredinbees, Widmore wasn't the one who sent Tom to convince Michael to go back, it was Ben) but anyhow, let's just stick to the idea that they know. And maybe indeed they (he on the island, and she in LA) are planning something. Widmore was early on schedule, and that is why Eloise implied that Desmond wasn't ready yet.

Both Charlie and Daniel are dead on the island timeline so their knowing (via their constant/love - my theory) is irrelevant.
But since Des is alive both on the island-verse and LA-verse, this can be problematic.

Anyway, Desmond met Penny, and now he is aware of everything, or at least, of his alter ego in LA.

Maybe Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Sayid, Jin, Sun can "wake up" from the matrix, if they encounter their significant other. For Kate it's Jack, for Claire, it's Charlie (that may explain why she looks like a fresh corpse, she's rotting cause Charley's dead) and as for Jin and Sun, they are not each other's constant, but Ji-yeon is. Sayid is afflicted by something evil, and that may explain why he has to suffer for no other reason that it's extremely painful, the sight of her love with his brother. I mean, what the fuck. How can his own brother fuck with him (and admittedly with Nadia, hence the two kids) like that : coming to LA and get her before he do. Why? Becauise of the time he choked the chiken and was praised by his father insstead of him. You have to admit that in this specific storyline, the theory of Smockey eviling the Alternate timeline sustain. Maybe it's simply Sayid himself who prefers Nadia to be married to his brother instead of nailed by a douchebag who thinks Persians are the new Asians.

But none of them matters. Eloise (and Widmore) expect something from Desmond specifically. I guess we'll have the answer to this question soon enough.

On a side note I kinda agree with Kolby. It's obvious to me they all run different lives in the alternate timeline, but it's not about their happiness, but what they manage to accomplish vis-à-vis their past (which we've discovered during the last 5 seasons) so in that way, they're granted their greatest wishes, but as someone said, to the expense of something else (love of their life/constant)

Posted by: rg at April 8, 2010 2:21 AM

Thank you, of COURSE it was Ben. Stupid memory.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 8, 2010 2:43 AM

Also, Matt Smith is aw-some!
I mean, I really wanted to hate him, that fucking hipstery youngster, but he just get the doctor. And the cinematography. Is it just me or HD, but man that looked amazing.

That was gud TV.

Posted by: rg at April 8, 2010 3:41 AM

And yeh, I'm gay.

Posted by: rg at April 8, 2010 7:40 AM

I'm late but here's my thoughts:

The candidates will have to make a choice, a "sacrifice" to surrender their lives to protect the thing they most want in order to stop the Enemy. Desmond is okay with it because he's seen the alternate time line, he KNOWS no matter what happens on the island somewhere he is with Penny and it is all ok. That is enough for him to let the island use him as it needs to.

Now that they're starting to pull the curtains back on the alt-timeline I'm wondering if it's going to start speeding up as it falls apart.

What I don't get is if the alt-timeline is real or some kind of Matrix/fantasy world that is the reward the candidates received for doing their job on the island. So far, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to discount either option.

But it was an out-fucking-standing episode. Definitely standing with "The Constant" with the best of the series. I'm really looking forward to re-watching the show when it's over to catch all the little things. And the painting of the scale in Widmore's office was just creepy.

Posted by: TylerDFC at April 8, 2010 7:50 AM

bees, labrynth, excellent..
darth, monkey's paw... YYYYY!

sorry, one large let down for me on this ep,
desmond/car & driver.. then goes to babysit an obvious problem.. drives self... then aftr weirdness, resorts back to car/driver..

i know iknow.. no other way to work in 'not penn's boat'.. but still.... tsk tsk tsk....

said b4, mom farady is central.. she was shown in the role of 'facilitator' for whatever purpose in the lamp... she was the light in the lamp..

i like dez.. and he was most dapper in his shades... and wouldn't mind a dez/sawyer sammich...
but cummmmmmmon... i want more nearly neKKid sawyer time....!!!!!!!

swearta.. lookin at him just makes me feel like teenager, who wants to paper her bedroom walls w/17 posters.... staples or no >:)

Posted by: kikz at April 8, 2010 10:36 AM

:sigh: ... and now I have to add ANOTHER thing to my "Pajiba Hive-Mind Suggestion List". Dark Tower, here I come. I hope our love is as succesful as my relationship with Firefly.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 8, 2010 10:41 AM

I remember when "The Constant" aired and a lot of people thought it was filler. I think this episode proves otherwise, it showed just how important the theory of the "constant" was. I don't think it's luck that the LA timeline featured the three people that were each other's "constant."

Posted by: citizen_cris at April 8, 2010 12:47 PM

Has anyone equated the "love" being like the apple in the Garden of Eden? All of these guys are being led to something unknown, i.e., the devil's plan - because of a woman. ADAM & EVE?

Posted by: Marie at April 8, 2010 1:00 PM

The Dark Tower series started off really well, but I lost interest when King picked it up again after several years.

The writing got incredibly self-indulgent - I don't want to spoil it for anyone - but those of you who got the the last books know what I mean.

Posted by: masonwasp at April 8, 2010 1:13 PM

I read the first four in the DT series. The Gunslinger was ok, and I Loved 2, 3, & 4. Sadly, by the time 5, 6 & 7 came out, I'd lost interest. Now, I want to read them, but that means I've got to read the whole series again to remember everything, and I just do not have the time.

It's on my "someday" list.

Posted by: Anna von MEGA-SHARKTOPUS at April 8, 2010 1:41 PM

I got bogged down in The Gunslinger and couldn't finish. Even though, by all accounts, the series improves remarkably starting with the second installment.

Also, rg, you may be gay, but I'm not and I'd do either Eleven or his new companion. Or both.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 8, 2010 3:47 PM

This episode was great for one simple reason: the alternate universe finally has a place to go and the audience is in on it. I was always a fan of the alternate reality but Lost took too long to let the audience know what the actual purpose was. Or at least some sort of incentive for us to care about that reality at all.

I love the idea people have brought up about LOVE being the constant. I'm interested to see how Lost is now going to tie all these plot points together: mainly, who will be Jacob's replacement, how can Desmond save the Island, whether the alternate reality is good or bad, whether the Smoke monster is good or bad, whether Widmore is good or bad, whether Sayid and Claire can be saved from the "sickness", whether people who died on the island will come back to life if the two universes combine, where Michael and Walt and Echo are, what roll Eloise will play in everything, and where those freakin Polar Bears came from (Dharma I know, but why?).

So yea...not too many questions to answer, right?

Posted by: Littlejon2001 at April 9, 2010 1:30 AM

I'm sure no one is still visiting this thread, but was the article title a reference to the Firefly episode of the same name?

Posted by: alex at April 16, 2010 5:27 AM


















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