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By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (102)



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Okay so I need to just say right here at the top that I didn’t hate the Nikki and Paulo episode (Season Three’s “Exposé”) nearly as much as everyone else did, and in fact I kind of liked it. At the time, I welcomed any break from the turgid, wheel-spinning soap that “Lost” had become before it found its mojo again at the end of that season and got its game back for the final three years. But really, I liked that the episode was a one-off with random characters whose sole purpose was to act in a kind of one-act play with a creepy twist ending. Not every minute of every episode has to connect to the larger mythology, you know? Anyway, I say all that only because those pretty dead people were finally mentioned again on this week’s episode, “Dr. Linus,” and it looks like someone will finally get the benefit of the diamonds that were scattered over them as they were buried alive. On with the show:

The Los Angeles Timeline
The action picks up well after Oceanic 815 has landed safe and sound, and after John Locke’s become a substitute teacher. Ben Linus, the high school history teacher, is lecturing his students about Napoleon’s exile on the island of Elba, and how his banishment was a fate worse than death because he was forced to adjust to a life where his title and power meant nothing. For those of you who have just turned 7, this is what we call a moment of Blatant Foreshadowing and Paper-Thin Symbolism™. “Lost” is, again, a really compelling pop mystery with the bad habit of making the subtext into text, and this episode had some groaners. After class, Principal Reynolds (William Atherton) puts Ben on detention monitor watch, temporarily postponing his History Club. Complaining about it later in the teachers’ lounge to Dr. Arzt, Ben’s overheard by Locke, who suggests that maybe Ben should be principal. His words: “Just sounds like you care about this place, and if the man in charge doesn’t, maybe it’s time for a change.” I get it. Just to be even more horribly clear, Ben asks Locke who would possibly listen to him, and Locke just casually raises a hand and says, “I’m listening.” Look. Just: look. It’s one thing to have Ben’s trauma in one timeline be mirrored or exorcised in the other. It’s pretty much the m.o. for the show. But to have the same actors going through the same emotional paces? And to have Ben not just looking to make a change in his life, but to topple the man he works for in an effort to take control and implement his own regime? Too much. Too big. Too easy.

Later on, Ben’s at home fixing a TV dinner for his aging dad, who apologizes for their lot in life and says things were better when he, Roger, was with DHARMA, and that they never should have left. So: Does this mean they left in the 1977 evacuation of the island before the Incident, which in this timeline scuttled the whole island? Or did they leave sooner? And what else is the same? Just then, Ben answers his door to find Alex Rousseau, one of his students, who’s looking for help studying for the AP history test, and he agrees to tutor her for the next few mornings before school. In this world, he’s not her murderous adoptive father, just a schmuck in a sweater vest.

The next morning, Ben and Alex are in the library going over the East India Trading Company (with an illustration that looks a lot like the Black Rock), when she freaks out and says she needs to ace the test to get into Yale, but the only way she’ll be able to get in is with a recommendation letter from an alumnus, namely, Principal Reynolds, whom she calls a pervert. (For a moment, I wondered if this was a really weird way to reference Jeffrey Jones, also a red-haired actor, who played the dean in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off and was busted for kiddie porn in 2002-03. Then again, that would be weird.) Alex tells Ben she was napping in the nurse’s office one day when she woke to hear the nurse and the principal getting it on in the next room, a piece of information she’s apparently kept under lock and key until now. Ben promises to keep her secret, but come on.

Later on, Ben asks Arzt if he can hack faculty email, and when he relates what he knows about the principal and the nurse, Arzt agrees to help out if he can have a better parking spot and new equipment when Ben takes over. Ben agrees to the quid pro quo, and Arzt chuckles a bit, saying he had no idea Ben was “a real killer.” I get it. Soon enough, Ben visits Reynolds and presents him with the e-mails, and the relish he takes in threatening the man’s life and career is reminiscent of the Ben we’ve known for years. But of course, Reynolds turns the tables and says that if Ben sandbags him, he’ll turn around and torch Alex’s chances of getting into Yale. The ball’s back in Ben’s court, and he’s honestly conflicted about what to do.

Some time later, Ben enters the principal’s office and fiddles with the nameplate when Alex swings by, saying she’s there to thank Reynolds for his glowing recommendation. Ben gives a sad grin when he hears how bright her future now looks, and when Reynolds enters, he manages to get in a small jab about History Club being able to meet again just to push the principal around a little and force his hand in front of Alex. He leaves and walks away, watching Alex trot off to class, and you can tell Ben feels good about his choice. Still, a part of me hoped he’d just wait a year for Alex to be off at college when he took down the principal, but the point of the episode wasn’t for Ben to outplay someone but to learn that some things are more important.

The Island Timeline
After leaving Sayid at the pool, Ben catches up to Ilana and the gang as they flee through the jungle, and he suggests returning to the castaways’ original beach camp to set up a base to repel whatever’s coming their way. Suspicious of Ben’s story about the smoke monster’s actions, Ilana has Miles use the ashes she scooped from the fire that consumed Jacob to find out how the man died and what he was thinking when it happened. He does so and reports that Ben was the killer, which news does not at all sit well with Ilana. (Frank seems noncommittal and kind of bored.) As she leads the gang away, Miles glares at Ben and lets out a sarcastic “Uh oh” that’s amazing.

When they get to the beach by morning, Ben’s like a puppy trying to regain Ilana’s affection, but she ignores him. Ilana tells Sun that she and Jin are candidates to replace Jacob, too — once the seal’s broken for the audience, characters are pretty free with info — and that there are only six candidates left. While she’s chatting, Ben finds Sawyer’s old porn stash, Chaim Potok’s The Chosen, a book by/about Benjamin Disraeli, and an Oceanic water bottle and tries to make small talk with Frank, making a weird joke of the fact that even though Frank missed his alarm and didn’t pilot Oceanic 815, the island got him anyway. Ilana then shows up with her rifle and leads Ben over the hill to the cemetery, where she shackles his leg to a tree and commands him to dig his own grave.

As Ben digs, he tries to offer Miles money via his network of contacts back home if Miles will let him free, but Miles blows him off and gestures to some nearby graves and says that Nikki and Paulo, those “jabronis,” were buried with $8 million in diamonds. He also tells Ben that Jacob had hoped, up till the minute he died, that his fears about Ben were unfounded and that the man would do the right thing. Later on, Ben’s grave is almost dug when Fake Locke appears with a rattle of noise and smoke that somehow no one else hears or sees. The Enemy uses the Force to pop Ben’s shackles and tells him that there’s a rifle waiting by a tree a couple hundred yards inland, and if he hurries, he can get the weapon, get the drop on Ilana, and meet up with rest of the Enemy’s crew on Hydra Island. Ben, cornered, decides it’s worth a shot, so he hauls ass into the jungle as Ilana sees him and gives chase.

He reaches the gun in time to turn on Ilana and get her to drop her own weapon, but rather than kill her, he tearfully confesses that he knows how she’s feeling. After all, he let his daughter die out of service to the island, to Jacob, and realized too late the error of his ways. He pleads with Ilana to just let him go to Locke (and he actually calls him “John Locke,” though whether out of habit or because it’s easier than saying “the shapeshifting bad guy,” it’s hard to say), saying that he has to go there because no one else will have him. Ilana, in a remarkable act of grace, doesn’t even wipe away her tears as she says, “I’ll have you,” then turns to go to the beach. And like that, after years of toil and betrayal, Ben finally starts to work toward something better. I won’t go all the way and call it redemption, but it’s a start.

While all this is happening, the action occasionally cuts to Jack and Hurley as they make their way from the Lighthouse back to what passes for civilization on Craphole Island. Hurley’s napping in the tall grass (even muttering “cheese curds”) when Jack wakes him up, and of course Hurley’s first request is food because I get it, he’s fat, let’s have a fat joke on page 37. They set off for the Temple as Hurley clearly tries to stall or take them down wrong paths, but it isn’t long before they run into Richard, who agrees to lead them there. Jack falls quickly in line, snapping to Hurley that “at least he’s not stalling.”

As they hike, Hurley asks Richard if he’s a time traveler or a Terminator, and while either would be a fun twist, he’s neither. They come into a clearing to find the Black Rock, and Richard said he lied about their destination because everyone at the Temple is dead. Hurley mentions talking to Jacob, and Richard gets intense, saying, “Whatever he says, don’t believe him.” Maybe he’s pissed and disillusioned; maybe he figures that since Jacob’s dead, the Enemy can try and appear in his form. With that, he marches off and announces his intentions to die.

Inside the ship, Richard pulls out the sticks of dynamite from the stash that destroyed Arzt, but futile attempts to detonate drive home his point that he can’t kill himself. He asks for Jack’s help, and Jack agrees to help the guy out, to Hurley’s confusion. Richard sits as Jack extends one of the fuses and lights it, but rather than bail, he sits down and asks Richard to start talking. Hurley tries to get Jack to leave, but the guy won’t, so Hurley reluctantly gets free from danger. Richard also warns Jack that the explosion will kill him, but Jack says that he wouldn’t have seen what he did at the Lighthouse if he didn’t have a purpose on the island. He sits back and closes his eyes as the dynamite’s fuse extinguishes on its own before reaching the head. This is an interesting way to bring Jack home for the series: Rather than have him pitted in a battle with Locke, he’s actually forced to evolve from the man of science into the man of faith, taking up Locke’s mantle to fight the thing masquerading as John. Nice move. Richard’s sufficiently won over by this trick, and when he asks what Jack wants to do, Jack says they need to go back to where they started.

So that’s how the island-based threads from this week’s episode meet up. Jack and Hurley arrive at the battered beach camp with Richard in tow, and the slow-mo arrival scene is heavily reminiscent of the first season (particularly, just off the top of my head, Sayid and Shannon’s return to camp at the end of “Do No Harm” before they know about Boone’s death). Everyone shakes hands and hugs; this is, after all, the first time they’ve all met up since the Ajira flight crashed and sent half of them back to 1977. Ben stands apart, still penitent, but somehow part of the group.

And that’s when the action shifts out to sea, as a submarine’s periscope rises from the water’s surface to see the reunion as it happens. Below deck, it turns out that the tiny vessel is under the command of (at long last) Charles Widmore. Upon hearing that there are people on the beach, he tells the man at the periscope not to stop but to “proceed as planned.”

And that’s that. Overall, a solid episode aside from some howlers having to do with Ben’s various confessions and schemes. I liked seeing Richard suicidal and frustrated, no longer pretending to be happy that he’d been “touched by Jacob,” a phrase that made me wonder if Jack and the other candidates, though susceptible to external forces and death (as Richard apparently is, hence his request for assisted suicide), might be able to live forever if left unmolested. It was also good to see Widmore return, but what he hopes to do on the island and how the hell he even found it are questions for another day. The real meat of the episode was the way it punctured several characters’ notions of what it meant to follow a hero or leader, and how they were forced to question the methods and costs of the sacrifices they’d made. That’s one of the reasons the book about Disraeli was discovered with The Chosen; the latter is about a reconciliation between worlds, but the man himself was an embodied contradiction, born of Jewish parents but baptized as a Christian as a young boy and willing to see the two as somehow compatible. The characters on “Lost” are no longer fighting for their survival, but for how they want to define that survival, and when the battle isn’t between good and evil but just in figuring out whether there’s any difference, you get some really good stories. And good television.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society, as well as a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

So eager am I to post on the latest recap that I have written this in
advance and am ready to cut and paste at a moment’s notice. It would
seem (seem being the key word) clear at this point that it is going to be
Jack taking over for Jacob and Flocke stuck on the island as Smokey.
The men we met at the crash site have now switched positions
as “man of faith/man of science” and it’s all over, but for the shouting.
Does this mean that Jack needs a new Richard or that Richard will pledge
loyalty to a new master? Will Hugo get to take over for Richard?
How about Sawyer? To me the truly interesting part is how
they will tie up all of the story machinations and play out the
last battle. Will Widmore join Flocke to counterpoint Ben since their
own little drama seems to be a mirror image of Jacob and
Smokey? How does the LAX reality play into it?

I LOVE the whole fate versus free will theme. You have a destiny
born of your character, but you have the free will to choose
how it plays out. Sayid is always a killer. Ben is always Machiavellian,
but able to attain a modicum of redemption (how much
remains to be seen in the island timeline).

I look forward to all of my certainty being upended as the gentlemen
behind the show shake things up a few more times.

Lastly, Miles can talk to cremains? I love that guy!

Now to read the recap!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 11:34 AM

WHY is Alex attending high school in Los Angeles? Shouldn't she be in France?

I never imagined Miles and Ilana would end up being two of my favorite characters. Well, I probably could have imagined Ilana, because damn is she hot, but Miles is just too charming in his unrepentant douchiness.

I totally thought Hurley said "cheese carrots." Which sounds really gross but also like something he might like.

Posted by: Todd at March 10, 2010 11:45 AM

Cheese curds and Uh-Oh are now 2 of my favorite phrases.

And, I'll say it again...NOBODY does big goggle-eyed WTF'edness like Ben, particularly after Ilana says "I'll take you." He followed her like a puppy....which leads me, as it always does, to....

WHERE'S VINCENT??

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 10, 2010 11:48 AM

I am right there with you Todd. Mr. Julien and I were saying how much we love Miles now. He's such a perfect jerk.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 11:52 AM

Michael Emerson is brilliant.

With Alex being in LA in Ben's school, I really wonder how Rousseau plays into all this, if at all.

Posted by: Julie at March 10, 2010 11:58 AM

*sob*
Poor lost and lonely Ben. And Richard.
They broke my heart last night.

Miles gets better all the time.

Posted by: Jules at March 10, 2010 11:59 AM

Yeah, I hated Ben's off-island storyline this week, and the whole filler-for-filler's sake aspect is getting really frustrating and annoying. Does any of this matter? The only thing that seems even remotely relevant is that Ben and his dad went to the Island and came back. And we'll get no answers on that for a very, very long time.

Also, may I suggest that, like me, people don't watch the previews or read online descriptions of the episode? I've been hearing how this was going to be 'Ben's demise' for a whole week and I KNEW it was bullshit the minute I heard it. Demise don't mean death, people. Stop buying into the promos! This is why I NEVER look at anything that's not in the show itself. It's all bullshit and misdirection.

Anyway....as silly as half this episode was, I thought once again Michael Emerson's acting was simply outstanding. His teary, terrified confession to Ilana had me in chills.

I really love Ilana, too. I wish she had come in earlier. She's the one female character who doesn't dwell in bullshit or goes around whining all the time or tries to get her a man. I like her.

Posted by: figgy at March 10, 2010 12:03 PM

I was talking to my mother this morning about the whole those-touched-by-jacob-cannot-die thing (!!!!!!!!!!!!) and I mentioned Michael trying to kill himself. Here is a bit of the conversation.
MOM: "So, whatever happened to Michael?"
PATTY: "Remember, he died in the freighter explosion."
MOM: "Oh, you mean the one that killed Jin?" (meaningful look)
~CHILLS~

BTW, my mom rocks.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 12:05 PM

I'm starting to think that the convergence of the alternate realities (or my previously theorized necessary destruction of one) is never going to happen. The deja vu we've seen in the LAX timeline will remain just that: merely deja vu. It could only be a device to keep the two worlds connected and resonant. I could be wrong.

I enjoyed the episode. Thanks for the recap as always.

Redeemed Island-Ben seems dead for sure. That's frequently the price of redemption in storytelling, and it will be sad.

Is next week the Richard episode? Time to finally get those answers. (I thought Jack might start demanding them while the fuse was burning.)

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 12:08 PM

It would be really cool is ABC hurried the fuck up and made these episodes available sooner. You know, so that I could watch it late on Tuesday and be able to participate in the office conversations and, more importantly, the Pajiba recap. Boooo ABC. Fucking booooo.

OK, my bitterness has subsided somewhat. I'll join you guys somewhere in the 100+ comment range :(

Posted by: Scully at March 10, 2010 12:10 PM

I am happy that the creators decided to reveal something pretty big as well: the people we thought always had the answers (Ben, Richard for example) never did. This conveniently: 1) makes it compelling now as a viewer because we'll find out the answers at the same time as everyone on the show, and 2) explains why Ben, Richard, the others, etc. were always so cryptic. Because the creators didn't know either, obviously. But it works.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 10, 2010 12:10 PM

Oh, and "Expose" is a fun episode. I never got the bad rap it received.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 12:10 PM

Huh, I actually thought this was one of the best episodes of the show. I am apparently outnumbered, but oh well.

Wouldnt it be funny to see William Atherton play a good guy?

Random sidebar: I have been feeling like the flash-sideways timeline consists of rolling character dice to see who pops up where. Not so much this week, but still. So when I was watching the Oscars and Fischer Stevens went up on stage, the first thing I thought was, "Minkowski? What are you doing here?"

And I lurved the Nikki/Paolo shoutout.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 12:12 PM

I dug the Nikki & Paulo episode too. The rumors were that they were going to be recurring characters, who would observe certain significant plot points but never connect the dots, or communicate with the main characters so that they could connect the dots. I'm really, really glad that tactic was abandoned; but as a stand-alone ep it was quite entertaining.

Now to read the recap.

Posted by: Jerce at March 10, 2010 12:14 PM

@Patty O'Green

So is Michael dead because he was able to have an external force do it such as Richard was seeking?

Or was Michael touched by Jacob and it has slipped my mind?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 12:14 PM

Is next week the Richard episode? Time to finally get those answers. (I thought Jack might start demanding them while the fuse was burning.

I was literally YELLING at the TV because Jack was just sitting there, not demanding answers. I guess I can see it as his change into a man of faith, but dammit it was annoying. Just more of this show's annoying tendency to not have anyone in it be remotely curious about anything.

I think I'll like "Expose" better on second watch, when it isn't in the middle of a frustrating season where I felt nothing was happening and that was full of long hiatuses and reruns. Oh, those were frustrating days.

Coltrane: I really liked that, too. Ben's and Richard's frustrations really reflect on the viewers, huh. Also makes Jacob look bad.

In that way, I think, it makes Jacob look like a version of "God", who tells you to do things and follow along based on nothing but faith that he knows what he's doing. Very frustrating, but it's all a test.

Posted by: figgy at March 10, 2010 12:16 PM

Mrs Julien, that is the basis for my frustration exactly.
First of all, we don't KNOW Michael is dead. We have to assume, for a hundred reasons, but red herring is always in season.
Second, we never see Jacob with Michael. However, we know he couldn't kill himself.

AND, wouldn't that be one hell of a reveal, and a segue to finally getting some Gorram answers about Walt! Surely we will get to see Jacob and Walt interact. Please? Pretty please?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 12:23 PM

I too am worried that Jack is going to be the new Jacob. All signs seem to point to this.

Posted by: Norwego at March 10, 2010 12:24 PM

Darth and figgy:

I'm not so sure the off-island (sideways flashes) are irrelevant to the on-island events. Perhaps someone else on here remembers, but I seem to recall a recent interview with LindeCuse where they stated that this new timeline is real and significant.

Great point figgy about Jacob. Very similar to an Old Testament, Book of Job type deity.

Are we sure Richard has any real answers? Other than telling us about his personal storyline, I thought this week revealed that he doesn't really know much about Jacob and the greater mysteries of the island.

Seems like Richard, Dogen, Ben, and the rest of the Others just blindly followed Jacob for a very long time.

The BIG X-factor is WIDMORE. What does he know about the island?

Posted by: Coltrane at March 10, 2010 12:27 PM

I thought it was sweet that AltBen and his father have a good relationship. It was a nice scene, and nice to hear Roger apologize to Ben. Ultimately meaningless, but nice. I expect that Roger and Young Ben were evacuated just before "The Incident"--in that ep Dr. Chang made a point of ordering that all the children be put on the sub and evacuated.

Miles got in a couple of great moments last night.

I do not want Ben Linus to become likeable. He has done far, far too many despicable things and I do not want the character to be redeemed. I want to go on loathing him. If he sacrifices his life in atonement, that'd be OK with me. But Ben just need to die--preferably slowly and horribly.

Posted by: Jerce at March 10, 2010 12:29 PM

Hijack-but-not-really: What question tickles your brain the most? What thing do you want answered, other than the huge, obvious questions?

I'm still super curious about Libby being in the crazy house. I don't really see getting an answer for that, but I said the same thing about the Hurley bird, and it apparently gets an explanation soon.

OH! What if Libby shows up as Hurley's wife in the sideways?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 12:34 PM

I think that the alt-timeline is what the islanders are/will give up by doing the "right thing" and following Jack/Jacob at the end of things. Then again, that doesn't explain how The Incident plays into things, and honestly, if The Incident turns out to be another plot point they just run past and the Island DOESN'T sink at some point, I'll get pretty pissed.

Also, if this show ends with Jack and Sawyer/Flock on the beach redoing the "You know how much I want to kill you right now?" exchange that we saw between Jacob and MIB, I'm going to run outside and start punching people in the face willy nilly.

Posted by: Roaddog at March 10, 2010 12:36 PM

Roaddog--That would be terrible. And unfortunately feasible.

I think the biggest question from this episode is what sort of gifts the candidates have since they've been touched by Jacob. My money's on the ability to cry at a moment's notice.

Posted by: kelsy at March 10, 2010 12:40 PM

@dammitjanet:
Damon Lindelof confirmed in the February 4, 2009 episode of the Official Lost Podcast that Vincent will survive through the end of Season 6, making Vincent the first and so far only character that has been confirmed to survive the entirety of the series.

Posted by: gem at March 10, 2010 12:45 PM

@Roaddog - If that happens, and it has occured to me as well that it might, I will be happy to supply the wiffle bats. I don't think the producers are that trite though.

I think a lot of the candidate stuff is a foregone conclusion and now what is really interesting is what they choose to answer and how they choose to answer it. I think that it will be a testament to the creators if we can just about figure things out shortly before they are revealed. Not everything has to be an earth-shattering moment. It's a bigger testament to their skill if a lot of things, after so much complication and agita, are answered with an "of course" instead of a "WHAT?"; as though it all made sense all along.

I loved it that Jack didn't ask any questions of Richard and he just settled in to outlast Richard. It was a great F.U. And he didn't cry.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 12:48 PM

My Burning Question is: WHO ARE THE MUMMIES IN THE CAVE? How did they get there? What's with the black and white stones (recently referenced again w/ Sawyer and Flocke)? Jack said they'd been there "about fifty years." Of all the mysteries large and small, this one bugs me the most.

Posted by: Jerce at March 10, 2010 12:50 PM

I loved this episode, so much that I don't remember one that left me as satisfied since The Constant. We have witnessed the growth of Ben from one of the most despicable and dishonest individuals to ever grace our TV screens to a person who puts the needs of others before his own. And for the first time he realized that honesty, the one behavior he had never attempted, turns out to be the way to redemption and acceptance. I truly believe Ben always felt in his heart that he was doing what he was doing for the protection of the island, that the island, and who he thought was Jacob, was worth protecting at all costs. That he was a good guy. After last night, he actually is.

And I'm not frustrated with the seemingly "slow" pace of the season thus far. Or the "obvious" plot turns. The writers of this show are not idiots. They know what they're doing. And the more I watch, the closer I come to being convinved that Lindelhof and Cuse are telling us the truth when they say that the two realities are not alternative to one another, that they are both in existence at the same time. Many people have speculated that what we are seeing in the sidewaysflashes are not an alternative universe, but in fact the series epilogue. One in which the characters are able to live their lives, under slightly different circumstances, and are able to make the choices that would allow them to avoid some great regret they are carrying with them. Last night, Ben was not only able to experience a life where Alex was still alive, but he was also able to play a huge role in securing a happy future for her. What more could a father want for his daughter?

The same could be said for Jack, Kate and Locke in their sidewaysflashes. Sayid seems to be the only one who may have chosen to make the same mistake again, although I don't think we've seen the end of that particular story. I also think it's somewhat important to note the appearance of reflections in each sidewaysflash - Jack saw his in the bathroom mirror on Oceanic 815, Kate saw hers at the service station, Locke saw his in his own bathroom, Ben saw his in his kitchen microwave, and Sayid, well, Sayid only saw half a relection. I don't think any of that is an accident.

Posted by: Kolby at March 10, 2010 12:53 PM

Well, I liked it. I loved that Off-Island Ben had a good relationship with his dad, and with Alex-who-is-not-his-"daughter". How is she in L.A.? Who knows? Does it matter? Since the island was presumably sunk in The 1977 Incident in this line, then her parents were never there; perhaps they went to the U.S. instead, or for different reasons altogether. I still liked it. I like that Arzt is teaching at the school now. I think it's fun. Yes, it's a little much at times with the obvious explanations of things we already know, the "Blatant Foreshadowing and Paper-Thin Symbolism™", etc. You know what? I'm still enjoying it. (P.S. For like half a second when the principal walked up to Ben I thought it was Clancy Motherfucking Brown, which would have been SO AWSE.) (You know what I just thought of? How much you wanna bet Kate winds up on-island with one of Jack or Sawyer, and off-island with the other?) I like that maybe if Ben had gotten off the island, he wouldn't be such a manipulative, evil guy.

I also loved the stuff with Richard, though it's still a bit too cryptic for my liking. We'll see what happens when we see the Richard episode in a couple of weeks. I also love Miles, although I have since the beginning. I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that "Uh-oh!" I like that Jack is now Man of Faith; but is "Locke" really Man of Science? Is SMIBokey?

@dammitjanet, When I heard some sound coming up on Ben, before realizing it was SmokeMonsterSound, I went, "VINCENT!!"

What was up with the crazy James Bond music when the sub showed up? That was odd. But like funny-odd.

I can't stop calling Lapidus "Lawnmower Man!" every time he shows up onscreen.

I also decided last night that I would love it if Walt did come back to battle "Locke" in the end. They could explain away the sudden age difference with the whole "time works differently on the island" that they've been doing since the very beginning. Plus, I think they still have to finish that game of backgammon, don't they? Maybe THAT'S who Adam and Eve are!

Posted by: Anna von Beavershark at March 10, 2010 12:54 PM

Kolby rocks!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 12:55 PM

gem, you have made me very happy. :-)

I still say Vincent is the true force on the island.

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 10, 2010 12:56 PM

Back in the middle of season 3 (before Naomi arrived to the island), I thought that Expose was a pretty interesting episode since it got me to remember how good the series was in season 1 and how I missed those times. Thankfully the series got back on track.
Regarding last night's episode, while it was slightly filler like Kate's episode, I thought it was much better because of all the character development for Ben, in the real and the alternate universe, I finally believe that he is trying to redeem himself

Posted by: Radlum at March 10, 2010 12:56 PM

Oh! Kolby, I hadn't really noticed that about the reflections. Nice catch.

Posted by: Anna von Beavershark at March 10, 2010 12:58 PM

Also, and I don't think this is spoilery since it was in a published interview, Lindelhof said that Vincent was going to have a "happy ending," whatever that means.

Posted by: Kolby at March 10, 2010 12:59 PM

Oh, and I was amused by the Expose episode, while at the same time annoyed that the writers cowed to audience pressure to kill off these characters rather than having them fulfill their purpose for creating them. But, overall, I was amused.

Did Miles dig up the diamonds at some point before or after Ben was digging his grave, but during the events of last night's ep, or has he had them for a while? That's one of my big questions.

Posted by: Anna von Beavershark at March 10, 2010 1:05 PM

I enjoyed the Nikki/Paulo episode too.

RAZZLE DAZZLE!

Posted by: elsie at March 10, 2010 1:08 PM

Kolby, you are brilliant. I had not noticed the reflections thing at all!!

and, then, there's this.... Also, and I don't think this is spoilery since it was in a published interview, Lindelhof said that Vincent was going to have a "happy ending," whatever that means.
Posted by: Kolby at March 10, 2010 12:59 PM

Dog porn? No, I'm telling you, he's behind EVERYTHING

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 10, 2010 1:19 PM

After my ill-advised glimpse of a chimpanzee raping a frog,
I really don't think I could stand to see dog porn. Just bark no Vincent!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 1:21 PM

AvB, I don't think Miles has the diamonds. I think he was "reading" the corpses as he was standing over their graves.

Posted by: elsie at March 10, 2010 1:22 PM

Does Vincent's happy ending also confirm that it wasn't his skull
being used for Claire's faux bay-bee?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 1:22 PM

The acting, especially by Michael Emerson and Terry O'Quinn (even in his short appearance this episode) is always outstanding. But this episode felt meandering and mostly a set-up, particularly for Richard's upcoming episode. And I don't expect so much island answers from that episode, but rather Richard's story.

The two pieces of the puzzle we got here were that it looks like Jack may be the one - the replacement Jacob, and in the sideways timeline, a general idea of when the island "sank". Could it also be that the island wasn't so much sunken as hidden?

I do think the timelines have to be reconciled, either by merging them, or by one becoming reality as the other melts away. And I think Desmond will be a catalyst to that end.

I think Roaddog's prophecy is feasable, I still think about the idea of the show ending with Jack's eye opening again - him waking up on the island anew as Jacob's replacement is a possibility.

How many people now have come to a realization that they've been living their whole lives for something or someone else, in vain? Ben, Locke, Richard...

Of course the writers and producers know what they are doing. They have the whole season to string us along. I wish they'd be a little more forthcoming though, because strung along is exactly how I feel.

Posted by: Cindy at March 10, 2010 1:26 PM

He had to dig them up after he spoke with Ben, AvB, because he first needed to be in close proximity to the dead bodies to "hear" about the diamonds. elsie, Miles was holding a diamond between two fingers, admiring it, so I"m pretty sure he actually has them.

Posted by: Cindy at March 10, 2010 1:28 PM

@ elsie: At the very end, they showed him sitting on the beach, looking at one of the diamonds as he was turning it in his fingers. Like you do when you're looking at a diamond. Or, you know, like I do, all those times I look at diamonds. (It did take me a second to realize how he knew about them in the first place, though. Then I laughed at myself. I'm kinda dumb sometimes.)

Posted by: Anna von Beavershark at March 10, 2010 1:28 PM

I used to think "Lawnmower Man!" whenever I saw Lapidus, until I heard someone call him "Lapinis".

Posted by: logar at March 10, 2010 1:45 PM

@logar [middle school giggling]

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 2:01 PM

Don't you mean, "Lapenis?"

No, I read an interview with Emilie De Ravin, and she said it was a "squirrel" baby. Damn big squirrel head, but that's what squirrely Claire said.

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 10, 2010 2:04 PM

Lapidus is lookin' mighty foxy lately. I think it's partly the uniform, partly how disinterested he looks with everything, partly the hair.

So I wonder what his deal is here? He was supposed to fly 815 but didn't, then flew the Ajira flight, now he's just there. I hope he doesn't die, and I'm thinking if he wasn't important he would've died already, but I'm still wondering.

Also. If Widmore doesn't want to touch the people on the beach, and Flocke doesn't seem to want to touch them either (for now, anyway. I'm thinking he could've easily killed the lot of them this ep), what is the deal here? I'm still thinking Widmore is allied with Flocke, as he was the one who worked with Locke into going back to the Island and thus manipulated Ben into killing Jacob. BUT WHAT IS THEIR DEAL? Widmore wanted to rule the Island, no? Flocke seems to want to destroy it, or at least hand it over to Widmore. BUT WHY?

That's my biggest question: What is the deal with Widmore and Flocke?

Posted by: figgy at March 10, 2010 2:22 PM

@dammitjanet:

I just tried to change as few letters as possible to achieve the effect. La-penis was the effect I was going for. hehe... penis. I love it.

Wait a second. That didn't cum out right.

Posted by: logar at March 10, 2010 2:23 PM

Man, Michael Emerson. My pants are soiled and my socks are clear across the room. That scene with Ilana was absolutely brilliant.

And I loved how Jack's become the man of faith. So ossom.

Must ruminate more, but not before chiming in on the Vincent love. Glad to hear he makes it out alive.

Oh, and I saw this YouTube vid of "Lost" as a sitcom and was cracking up. I used to love TGIF on ABC.

Wait a minute, no I didn't. I hated TGIF and week after week would ask myself, Why am I still watching this?

Posted by: Jelinas at March 10, 2010 2:25 PM

Another big question that blows my mind is why did Juliette find an Ajira Airlines water bottle in the canoe last season, as they were hopping through time, and who was chasing after them?

Clearly they hopped into 2007, after the Ajira crash, and were chased by some of Flocke's peeps. Should be interesting to find out who she shot.

Posted by: logar at March 10, 2010 2:31 PM

I totally forgot about that, logar! I hope the writers didn't forget!

Posted by: figgy at March 10, 2010 2:42 PM

Holy Fame Monster, logar!!! I had completely forgotten that she shot someone! Oh, please be Kate! (Sorry Grags...)

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 2:47 PM

logar >> Forgot about that - maybe she shoots Sawyer? He has turned bad because of infection and hesitates when he sees who they are chasing?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 2:50 PM

Figs -

MIB cannot kill any of the candidates, so he couldn't just swoop in and kill our little group of Losties. Not all of them, anyway. And he still needs people to choose to follow him, that's why he gave Ben the (very loaded) option.

I guess I figured the people chasing the time jumpers in the canoe were Ilana and Bram (and their crew). I'd be curious to find out if it's something else.

Figs - I've read some stuff about MIB that's pretty interesting (not spoilers, but I won't post them here anyway), so let me know if you want the details.

Posted by: Kolby at March 10, 2010 2:51 PM

Is Sawyer infected?

Posted by: Kolby at March 10, 2010 2:53 PM

I'm with Patty. I hope Kate gets shot by Juliet.

Posted by: Jelinas at March 10, 2010 3:02 PM

I don't believe Sawyer is infected. I believe/hope that Sawyer is pulling a "long con" on Flocke, and at a crucial moment Sawyer will betray Flocke.

I want to see me some Chaotic Good Sawyer.

Posted by: Jerce at March 10, 2010 3:04 PM

Thank you, gem! YAY Vincent! Finally an answer to a question I care about!

Ben is my favorite character. He seems so interesting to me - I was sad when Alex was killed right in front of him. I was happy that he did a good thing and had a chance to help her in that alternate timeline.

It was great to see Richard doing something besides running in a panic around the island. Can't wait for his show, which I heard is in 2 weeks, not next week. I hope Hurley's is next week. I love that character.

but mostly I'm also glad to read about Vincent. And can't wait to see what the damn deal is with Widmore, already! :) Great review, Mr. Carlson!

Posted by: Chickaboom at March 10, 2010 3:04 PM

@Jelinas - That's how I feel about 30 Rock. Except the
anticipatory excitement part. We gave up on it after sufficient
disappointment.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 3:05 PM

@Jerce - I think Sawyer is unreliable as an ally to Flocke for all the right
reasons.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 10, 2010 3:07 PM

Yes, I agree: the long con for Sawyer was my initial theory. However, if he does officially become infected, he might not be able to control his actions. I was just theorizing who it might be most interesting for Juliet to shoot from a storytelling standpoint. If they do go back to that canoe scene, it could just as likely just be a bunch of no-names from the Temple.

Tangential theory for discussion: perhaps the Smoke Monster isn't allowed to (or won't?) infect Candidates for some reason, thus keeping Sawyer safe? Maybe the only reason that he infected Sayid was because Sayid was dead anyway?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 3:20 PM

logar,

yeah, ok, sorry.....sometimes I'm a little too literal....

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 10, 2010 3:24 PM

Jacob said "He is coming", I think Widmore is on team Jacob.

Sawyer ain't infected.

Posted by: Cindy at March 10, 2010 3:27 PM

Patty, I think you know my burning question:

WHERE IS DESMOND?!!?!?!?!?!?

Posted by: coveredinbees at March 10, 2010 3:41 PM

YEA, covered is here!

I wonder the same thing, and I'm starting to get irritated at his absence. Especially since the actress who plays Penny is on another show right now, I get that fuck-the-fourth-wall feeling that their story hiatus is because of actor unavailability, which makes me feel stabby. I hope I'm wrong, and they are just amping up for something awesome. Lost has so many plates spinning that I'm sure Desmond is hanging from one of them...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 3:49 PM

I hope Desmond is chilling at home with Penny and Charlie. Brother would have tae be crazy tae go beck tae thit fookin' island!

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 3:51 PM

damn it... ben made me cry.. swearta... it was pitiful, his rejection by everyone except smocke.. and his obvious needing to belong...somewhere.

but i'm betting, redemption will ask - ben for his self sacrifice to a higher purpose. sayid too. they're both 'all in'.. where as sawyer was only 'doubled down' tapping locke's father (the real sawyer) and the cook in oz (mistake sawyer).

kolby touched on the importance of intent... and in ben's case, just how far 'off balance' that can go. which plays nicely back to the destiny vs freewill - service to self/service to others issue.

i wonder if the alliance w/illana will hold? we all know ben......and what retribution will smocke take on ben for his rescinding on their deal? maybe smocke will hold/knock, as ben did 'do' jacob for him...

ah well.. it was widmore and not dez(this time)... and remember jacob knew he was coming.

wonder where he's headed first in stealth mode.. the semi-flooded looking glass or just the docks then on to the temple &/or stationsmocke?...and did mom faraday willingly give him the 'new/now' coords? also i wonder if now, when he steps foot on the island again, if he is fair game to die?
remb, ben couldn't kill him off island...even in revenge for alex.

jack...no crying, and he's redeemed his trust in his intuition (dynOMite) after the 'bomb' fiasco...
he was right though in his yap to richard.. i'd thought about the mirror, jacob meant for him to see it. i still think it was a stupid waste of possibly vital intel on jack's part.

and another damn it!
no sawyer this wk/or last...there better be nudesawyersunbathing or at least extended shirtlessness and SOON!

...and although, smocke's recruitment deal is tempting, i would bet that sawyer still considers there's a score to settle, doesn't trust 'it' and will in the end be a party to smocke's defeat.

obviously he/kate will haggle over sawyer's deal when all of teamsmocke gets to the station. i'm not sure she's 'all in' w/teamsmocke either... and bless her heart, (and whomevermentioneditlastpost) good girl, she rearmed herself... she's not as dim as would seem... about some things..

and wherethehell'z jin? i guess he and smocke will meet up wandering the island... and then how will (what i imagine) his 'smocke deal' be rescinded/resolved when he does actually find sun?

well if it ends up there are no candidates to take over for jacob (either dead or 'turned').. there'll be nothing to keep smocke prisoner on the island...

so what is smocke's deal?
something must have still have him tethered to the island...?

Posted by: kikz at March 10, 2010 3:56 PM

Wow, kikz, I think I just got an aneurysm trying to read that.

You did make a fascinating point, though. Assuming Widmore got the coordinates from Ellie, did she give them up willingly? Maybe they had the sexy time? Or perhaps they went parking in the Murdertank.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 4:09 PM

Pssst, Scully . . . you can find new eps on Surfthechannel within an hour of broadcast. Try that, and you'll be recap-ready.

Posted by: Lauren at March 10, 2010 4:26 PM

Aww, Patty, returning the love. You're so classy! And Darth, if you can do that accent in real life, I'm so utterly yours.

Posted by: coveredinbees at March 10, 2010 4:53 PM

AvB, Cindy - Clearly I missed that whole scene with Miles holding a diamond. Of course, I also missed his "uh oh" moment too, so I clearly need to go back and rewatch the episode.

Posted by: elsie at March 10, 2010 5:05 PM

Aside from all the great Miles lines (I'm totally going to name my first born Miles), the greatest line that gave made me spit out my water was Ben's "whaaat?... after Miles read Jacob's ashes. Michael Emerson is great.

My watching buddy didn't care for this episode; thought it was filler, but I enjoyed it. It was nice seeing Ben as a person capable of caring for someone else. And that scene with his dad and the oxygen tank hearkening back to the Incident...craziness!

And his scene with Ilana-totally heart-wrenching. I'll take you, Ben!

Oh, and Richard was so hot this episode. That man...mmm.

Must.stop.Lost.nonsense.at.work.

Posted by: Amanda at March 10, 2010 5:09 PM

In all, another great episode of LOST. The only thing missing was Val Kilmer, 3 tons of popcorn, and a huge fricking laser.

Posted by: logar at March 10, 2010 5:34 PM

FYI - next week is a Sawyer episode. From what I've gathered, after that it goes:
Richard
Jin/Sun
Desmond
Hurley
then an ep titled "The Last Recruit"
then one called "The Candidate"
then "Across The Sea" allegedly featuring NONE of the series regulars (!)
then, the finale.

Posted by: Dr. Remulak at March 10, 2010 5:56 PM

coveredinbees >> I've always been a fan of the Scottish accent as well; it's probably why I have had a crush on Kelly Macdonald for a long while.

Plus, reading all of that Irvine Welsh fiction has given me an internal Scottish dialect. When I met Mr. Welsh, I thanked him for teaching me to swear in Scottish. I can give the accent a shot out loud, but it's probably not nearly as good as I think it is.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 6:12 PM

Kolbs, Where are you getting the idea that MIB can't kill the candidates? Honest question, I hadn't even thought about that, or maybe I forgot something? I have a crap memory.

I bet that Juliet shot Sawyer. It'd be so terribly ironic, and we know how the writers love irony.

I say Widmore is Team MIB. Eloise Hawking and Desmond are Team Jacob. Could be wrong of course.

Posted by: figgy at March 10, 2010 6:41 PM

Patty, right before Michael died in the explosion Christian Sheppard appeared and told him that the island had released him, or something along those lines. As opposed to when Mr. Friendly met with him earlier that same episode and told him the island wasn't done with him yet, which was why he was having hard time killing himself. He is most certainly dead and gone.

I can't remember where I read this, but Libby will definitely be revisited this season (I love the idea of her being Hurley's wife). Have faith people! The Lost cynicism is getting a little old.

I think an important part that hasn't been mentioned was Flocke's offer to Ben to be the replacement leader of the island once he is able to leave. I'm still not convinced that Ben won't follow that carrot in a misguided attempt to regain some semblance of power. Evil Ben could rear his ugly head again yet.

I loved the reunion scene at the end as I have every time one has happened. Got me all choked up and remembering again why I love this show so much. I like the people and I like their relationships, particularly the growth and development they've gone through. I will definitely miss them when they're gone.

Posted by: katy at March 10, 2010 6:58 PM

Ilana is Alex from the future.

Desmond is in the sub with his step father

Posted by: rg at March 10, 2010 7:09 PM

just bullshitting, but in all seriousness, WTF with only 16 episodes !

Also, can someone tell me please when did juliet shot someone-who-could-be-Sawyer-or-whoever-but-fuck-if-I-can-remember !?

Merci d'avance

Posted by: rg at March 10, 2010 7:17 PM

rg >> When Juliet, Sawyer, Faraday, Miles, etc. were "time-skipping" along with the island near the beginning of last season, at one point they were traveling in a canoe during one of the changeovers. (I don't recall why they were in the canoe in the first place the canoe.) Another canoe appeared behind them with people too far off to identify. These people shot at the Losties as they were rowing, so they returned fire. Then they time-skipped again, which caused the canoe to disappear.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 7:54 PM

Looked it up, it was in the episode "The Little Prince."

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Little_Prince

With no one nor the Zodiac in sight, the group wonders where everyone has gone. Noticing a pair of wooden outrigger canoes, they speculate that the other survivors may have fled from attackers. Inside one of the canoes, Sawyer finds a water bottle with a label for Ajira Airways, which Juliet recognizes as an international airline based in India. They take one of the outriggers and begin paddling toward the Orchid. After a short while, they notice that unknown people are pursuing them in the other outrigger. As the other canoe gains on them, the people in it begin to shoot. After trying to escape for a while, the group has Juliet returning fire with a rifle, apparently hitting one of the pursuers. Before the pursuers can get any closer, there is another time flash. Sawyer exclaims, "Thank you, Lord!" The group reappears in the midst of a torrential storm, to which Sawyer then exclaims, "I take that back!"

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 7:59 PM

How cool that must have been Darth. Lucky you!

figgy, little Jacob told MIB "you know the rules, you can't kill him" (about Sawyer) - from that people have inferred that MIB can't kill a candidate.

Posted by: Cindy at March 10, 2010 8:29 PM

I'm thinking maybe it's that MIB can't kill anyone that Jacob has "touched" - not just the Candidates. Otherwise, what would have stopped him from killing Ilana? Or why wouldn't he have killed Richard by now?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 10, 2010 9:00 PM

katy, I was pretty confident Michael was dead, but I had forgotten that bit of proof. And when I talk about questions I don't expect to be answered, it isn't cynicism. I would be disappointed if they answered everything, you know? So I am acknowledging which might be left to wonder over.

YEA for answers about Libby!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 10, 2010 10:25 PM

I worded that incorrectly - since apparently there have been a kazillionty candidates! But Darth, Jacob did not touch Ilana. He visited her and asked her to help him. But also, MIB hasn't killed everyone he meets, why should he kill Ilana? I think Ilana and Richard just haven't gotten in his way (yet).

Posted by: Cindy at March 10, 2010 11:01 PM

How do we know that was the first time Jacob had met Ilana? They seemed like they knew each other to me. . .well as much as anyone can seem anything under all those bandages.

And, Darth, awesome! I find three things help me with my (quite possibly shitty) Scottish accent. 1) Starting with the phrase "Turn right at the light" (I don't know why this works) 2) shout a lot 3) whiskey. Rinse and repeat, brutha.

Posted by: coveredinbees at March 10, 2010 11:53 PM

I don't think the hospital visit was their first meeting at all.

Posted by: Cindy at March 11, 2010 12:01 AM

I think you're right about Jacob's not touching her, as I believe the text at the bottom of the recap made a point of telling us that. I might be wrong. That said, the fact that she now says that he's the closest thing she has to a father would lead one to believe that he visited her on more than one occasion. The things he said to her did seem to support that.

The reason I asked why he didn't kill Ilana is that would have seemed the much simpler way to free Ben. If Jacob is truly his enemy, I would think he would want to kill those aiding Jacob's ends (i.e., my related question of why he hadn't killed Richard in all those years). Smokey certainly didn't hesitate to slaughter Jacob's followers in the Temple, and he obviously endorsed the killing of Dogen. There seems to me to be more rules attached to his direct killing power than we have been told (see killing Eko, killing the pilot, sparing Locke, etc.), but I don't know if it will ever be fully explained.

Originally I thought Eko's death was linked to his refusal to repent. Maybe it has something to do with defiance. I.e., Ilana ordered those with her not to shoot at Flocke, and Flocke didn't kill those in the foot statue until after they had shot at him. Was there any defiance that the pilot exhibited before he died? Was there anyone else Smokey killed that I could use as evidence in this discussion? Did Keamey's soldiers shoot at it before it actually attacked?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 11, 2010 12:09 AM

oh...I had no idea that that referred to Sawyer. I honestly thought he meant Jacob, but that'd be weird, wouldn't it. Unless Jacob was taking the form of someone MIB killed...or something. Nevermind, your explanation is way easier.

Posted by: figgy at March 11, 2010 1:26 AM

While I can see the hypothetical Jack/Locke on the beach finale being irritating, if that is the writers' plan I hope they go through with it. BSG suffered because they didn't want to come up with a finale that any of the fans had guessed at. So the finale was, let's face it, a damn mess of unaswered questions and a lot of "yeah, I guess that makes sense. Sort of." I can live with a predictable ending if it makes sense to the story. I can almost bet whatever the ending ends up being, it will be a circle closing back to its beginning. The Dark Tower ended that way, and Cuse and Lindelof constantly reference The Dark Tower as a big influence on LOST.

I love that the characters are finally making their choices. Sayed is among the fallen, but now Ben has chosen the side of the good guys and for once it didn't feel like just another Ben manipulation. This entire season is just one big series of finales, both large and small. I'm absolutely loving it and find each little character moment immensely satisfying. Especially the Jack has finally, FINALLY, accepted that there is a purpose to what has happened to them.

It may get heavy handed at times, but LOST is still the most compelling drama on network television. I think they mix the "duh" symbolism with the subtle stuff really well, too.

Posted by: TylerDFC at March 11, 2010 9:18 AM

The reason I asked why he didn't kill Ilana is that would have seemed the much simpler way to free Ben.

I think Ben had to make a choice to go (or not) with MIB. Sawyer also had to make the choice to go with him. I don't yet know why MIB wanted the temple cleared out, since he also left the temple - but again, he gave people a choice.

Something has changed about MIB/Smokey's capabilities since Jacob was killed (he also had to get someone else to choose to do the killing). I don't know that previously Smokey abided by the same rules, since clearly he could have killed people like Ben and Eko earlier. I also think Eko died because he refused to repent, but perhaps it was more than that. Maybe it was realized he was no longer a candidate. But I don't truly think it's that simple, because at some times, Smokey was helping the Others (he could be summoned), so either he was trapped into service for Jacob until Jacob was dead, or he had some other unknown motivations. Ben summoned Smokey after Keamy killed Alex, as a matter of fact, so in that case, Smokey seemed to be "working for" Ben and the Others.

Posted by: Cindy at March 11, 2010 9:35 AM

Figgy, it's been confirmed by TPTB at LOST that MIB cannot kill a candidate. I am going to FB message you with some other stuff I've read about him.

Posted by: Kolby at March 11, 2010 10:05 AM

sorry for the almost aneurysm patty!
i almost had one...writing it..


yea, there must be more 'killing rules' than we are privy to... they seem somewhat inconsistent...
smokey as locke - was told by the bloody armed kid.. 'can't outright kill him/them'... inre sawyer. but then again sawyer is a candidate... apparently 'MIIIIsta EEEEko' wasn't or somehow negated the designation and smokey 'un-locked' could kill.....who knows *shrugz*?


FOOOOOOKI (silent n) GREEEEA! (silent t)
(fukin great)
my fav scot affectation i've lovingly pinched frm billy connolly :)

connolly's travel shows are fooookigreaaaa! :) but where ta find em?... the parrot sez.. "arrrrgh matey"... nuff said, nudgenudge, winkwink, say n' more ;)

anybody who lurvez eddie izzard, by proxy lurvez connolly - as izzard hattips his storytelling "subject meander-bring back to point/wrap up an hr later" style to connolly :)

and an inside joke w/my kids.. the last thing they hear being dropp'd off for school in the am..
'hava foook'n greeeea deeeeeeey' and they love it :) aye, mum!

yeah! a sawyer epi!!!!!! i'm guessing he's been off coff*nude sunbathing*coff attending to plans for teamsmocke leaving the island.. although i have no idea what that could entail.....from smocke's viewpoint?

wasn't it dogen that said.. smocke wanted to kill everyone/everything on the island..?

well, why?

maybe kill the island itself?

jacob/ben/dogen were caretakers/protectors...and while 'bound in service' that seem'd to be smokey's role too, at least as far as ben was concerned, remb.. ben had some control of smokey, he released/summoned him on keme's gang w/the sub-basement 'call/flush button thingy'.

but not now.... set free of jacob's thumb - fuck the island - smokey wants to bail...but can't...

maybe smocke has to sink the island to leave - or

the lostiez sink the island to 'end the game' and keep smokey there for eternity? dunno....

maybe jack makes the realization that he can be alexander the great - and slash the gordian knot of the 'battle of evermore' game....and make the final call to do it... somehow...

jacob told hurley, jack has a destiny to fulfill... but had to realize it for himself......maybe that's it.. end the game...free them all.... but we'd still hav the two concurrent timelines.. unless somehow they'd merge... or would they????

geez.. i'm getting into sick headache almost aneurysm territory again..... :)

such is lost......................*woosh*

Posted by: kikz at March 11, 2010 10:16 AM

Kolby, there has to be a time frame and/or something specific associated with that statement (a candidate cannot be killed), because really, at some point all those names on the ceiling in the cave and on the wheel were technically candidates. But one by one, they were crossed out as it was determined a person wasn't a candidate.

Posted by: Cindy at March 11, 2010 10:25 AM

Patty, Lostpedia says that Libby was in the nuthouse because she went mad after her husband died.

Would love to see her and Hurley together in the alt-verse!

Posted by: The Other Julie at March 11, 2010 10:56 AM

I assume, then, that once their name is crossed off they are no longer a candidate, and they are no longer protected from MIB. I just said that he couldn't kill them, not that they couldn't be killed. They can kill each other.

Also, there are a whole lot of things that were true before Jacob died that no longer apply. I think everything that happened on the island was somehow tied to Jacob's existence. But I do think the rules of the "game" or whatever still apply.

Posted by: Kolby at March 11, 2010 10:59 AM

But he, MIB as Smokey, has killed people who were once candidates.

Posted by: Cindy at March 11, 2010 11:05 AM

Who were once candidates? Sure. We have no idea what Jacob used as criteria for the choosing of candidates, nor do we know why he removed people from the running, so to speak. The only thing I know is that MIB can't kill people who are candidates. I have no idea what happens when they are no longer considered as such. It seems like the only person who does know is Jacob.

Posted by: Kolby at March 11, 2010 11:40 AM

Wow, Other Julie, I don't remember that ever being mentioned. Are you sure it isn't listed as a theory/assumption? Hmm, I trust the LOST fans, so I will accept that.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 11, 2010 11:56 AM

Yeah, I guess I don't know either - but like right now, we think we know that Sawyer, Hurley and Jack and Sun and/or Jin (or possibly their daughter) are candidates. But what I'm saying is, at some point Smokey did kill people who were candidates. Were they crossed off beforehand or not? I don't know. And at what moment will each of the remaining candidates become ex-candidates? I don't know that either!

Posted by: Cindy at March 11, 2010 11:38 PM

Wait.

I know I'm a little late, but what makes you think those that have been killed by Smokie were candidates?

The only candidates I can think of who are dead (or dead-ish) are Locke and Sayid... and Smokie didn't kill them.

Posted by: kayla at March 12, 2010 11:23 AM

kayla, the Oceanic Six are not the first people to ever be considered as candidates. Remember the walls covered in scratched out names, and on the dial? I think we are supposed to assume that those people were once candidates, too.

Can anyone think of a specific name we saw written down and crossed out that we know Smokey killed? You can looks at the still shots on Lostpedia or losteastereggs.blogspot.com, but I'm too lazy right this second.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 12, 2010 11:41 AM

Well, I understand that but I guess what I meant to ask was...

"Can anyone think of a specific name we saw written down and crossed out that we know Smokey killed?"

Posted by: kayla at March 16, 2010 11:44 PM

















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