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The Telling

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (170)



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There’s a feeling you get toward the end of a book, when major truths are being revealed and things are changing and the full picture is starting to be filled in. It’s a bit disorienting, mainly because you’ve gone for so long with gradual revelations that a run of big ones tends to create waves. That’s the only way I can describe the feeling of watching this week’s “Lost.” Titled “Across the Sea,” the entire episode was set hundreds of years in the past and dealt exclusively with the origins of Jacob and the Man in Black, and though it (of course) raised its own set of new questions, the amount of information it conveyed was almost disarming. We’re at the end-of-the-novel part of the show, with only 3.5 more hours of air time before everything wraps for good, and I’ve got a feeling that a big part of those 3.5 hours will be truth dumps in which everything is suddenly shoved at us like it was last night. And I’m not sure yet how I feel about that.

Devoid of any “previously on” clips, the episode instead gets right down to business. It’s a long, long time ago. A woman (Leia Loren) in a red dress floats in the ocean, clinging to the wreckage of a ship, then sights the island and makes her way to shore. Clutching her pregnant belly, she walks inland to a stream and is startled to look up and see another woman (Allison Janney) standing across from her. They speak in Latin before the island woman leads her off to safety, taking refuge in a cave. The spoken dialogue then shifts to English, though they’re still presumably speaking in Latin. “Lost” can be a bit erratic about who speaks in other languages and why, but this choice is pretty clearly made so we wouldn’t have to read subtitles for an hour.

The pregnant woman says her name is Claudia, but the second woman never gives a name, saying only that she got to the island “by accident” just like Claudia. She tends to Claudia’s wounds and tells her to stop asking questions, since they just lead to more questions (a meta-jab/warning for viewers if ever I heard one), and get some rest, but Claudia’s belly has other plans. She goes into labor and eventually gives birth to a son right there on the cave floor. The island woman wraps him in a white cloth and sets him aside; Claudia names him Jacob. She starts screaming again as the island woman realizes there’s another baby in there, and soon enough Jacob’s got a brother, whom the island woman wraps in a black cloth, just to make extra sure that every single viewer is getting every blistering bit of stupid subtext here. “I only chose one name,” Claudia says, as if this is all she needs to say, so the second son goes unnamed. She asks to see her boys, but the island woman turns and sadly refuses before picking up a stone and crushing Claudia’s skull.

A few years later, a dark-haired boy finds a wooden box on the shore. It’s a game called Senet that dates to ancient Egypt, and the boy starts setting stones on the board as a blond kid his age runs up. (The actual rules of the game are apparently a subject of debate among historians, though if you want to really cook your noodle, check out this guy’s explanation, which talks about how the 15th square is the “House of Repeating,” dealing with life after death.) These are, obviously, the brothers from the earlier scene, now about 13, though of course the script from Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse finds the most awkward and melodramatic way to have the dark-haired boy call the other one “Jacob.” It’s not that brothers in real life don’t use names; it’s that they’re never done with such formality or rigidity. Lindelof and Cuse are smart guys who craft fun stories, but the nuance of their execution leaves a lot to be desired.

So they play the game, and there’s some minor squabbling between Jacob and Jacob’s brother, and eventually Jacob bails and tells Mother about Brother’s game. (I can already tell I will get tired of typing “Jacob’s mother” and “Jacob’s brother, whose name is withheld for possibly foolish reasons, likely because the show’s creators are confusing engaging mystery with pointless obfuscation.” So let’s just go with proper nouns for now.) Mother comes down to the beach and gets Brother to admit he found the gane, but she says she’d planted it for him to find. He’s a bit disappointed, since he’d hoped the game had come from “across the sea,” but Mother tells him there’s nothing out there, and that the island is all there is. She also tells him that he and Jacob came from her, and she came from her own mother, who’s now dead, but Brother doesn’t understand the word. “What’s dead?” he asks. “Something that you will never have to worry about,” she replies.

Some time later, the boys are hunting a boar when they lose sight of it only to hear it speared by someone else. They hide and see a group of men in leather vests come up and start stripping the animal. Fleeing to tell Mother back home in their cave, she tells them they need to get away, since the men don’t belong there while Mother and the boys are there “for a reason.” That slip is all the motivation Brother needs to pester her to reveal this reason, so she submits. She blindfolds them and leads them through the jungle, telling them she knew the men were there but lied about to keep the boys safe. “They come, fight, destroy, corrupt, and it always ends the same,” she says. These are the exact words spoken by the Enemy in last season’s finale, “The Incident.” Mother also tells the boys she’s made it so they can never hurt each other.

They eventually arrive at what she calls “the reason we’re here”: a small stream flowing into a low cave mouth that’s emanating a warm, golden light from somewhere far below. Mother says that men want to come take the light because a little piece of it exists in every man, making them want more. She says the men can’t take it, but they can try, and they can put it out, but if the light goes out there, it goes out everywhere. She also tells the boys she can’t protect the light forever, so one of them will eventually have to take over.

Later, the boys are playing Senet again as Brother riffs some more about how he gets to make the rules since he found it, and how Jacob can make his own rules for his own game later, which are you serious Damon and Carlton. Brother catches a glimpse of Claudia in the distance, though, but Jacob can’t see her. Brother follows the vision into the woods, and Claudia says she wants to show him where he came from. She leads him across the island to a group of huts and tells him these are people who wrecked on island 13 years earlier, the day before Brother was born, and that she, Claudia, is his real mother. Brother at first bucks at the idea of being from “across the sea,” where Claudia tells him there are “many things,” but he eventually goes with it. That night, he gets Jacob and they sneak out of Mother’s cave to head back to the huts, but Brother’s announcement of Claudia’s truth upsets Jacob, who launches at his brother and starts beating him before Mother appears and stops it. Brother says he’s going with his newfound people so he can leave the island, but Mother tells him he won’t be able to. Jacob stays with Mother as Brother leaves them behind. Next morning, Mother admits to Jacob she killed Claudia but did it so Jacob would “stay good.” He asks why she loved Brother more, but she says it wasn’t more, just different. Jacob agrees to stay with her for a while.

Cut to years later, with Jacob looking as he did when we first got to know him last season. He’s working on the loom that Mother used when they were boys. He later heads down to the village to meet up for some Senet with Brother, now also grown into the early-middle-aged man we recognize. It’s been 30 years since Brother moved out, and in that time, he’s observed that the people he lives with are greedy, corrupt, lazy little bastards, though he tells Jacob they’re just means to an end. Jacob, who’s been watching the group for years to see if Mother was right about them, then learns of Brother’s plan when Brother throws a knife that’s grabbed from the air and sent spinning to the brick wall of a nearby well. Brother says that “metal behaves strangely” at certain parts of the island, and it’s in those places that he and the curious men he lives with have started digging. “This time, we found something,” he says. They bicker again about how Brother wants to leave and Jacob wants to stay.

Jacob tells Mother that Brother has found a way off the island, so she journeys down to the dig site to find Brother working underground before a large stone wall. He tells her that he looked all over for the cave of golden light before realizing that he might be able to get to it by digging from above, and that he and his people have some “very interesting ideas” about what to do with it now that they’ve found some. He pries a stone from the wall to reveal golden light, a beam of which shines out to illuminate the giant wooden wheel he’s built to install in the wall. Once attached to a system designed to channel water and light, the wheel can be turned and he’ll be able to leave. She moves in to hug him goodbye, and I almost believed he’d try something on her when instead he just softens and hugs her like a boy with his mom. That’s when Mother comes in for the reversal, telling him she’s sorry as she screams and rushes him against the wall, knocking him out as his head hits a stone.

Mother rushes back to the cave to get Jacob and lead him to the golden light cave, telling him that his brother wanted to leave so now it’s up to Jacob to protect the light. She pulls out a wine bottle (the one Jacob still has years later) and pours a drink while chanting over it, then passes the cup to Jacob. He’s reluctant to take it, saying he knows that Brother was supposed to be the one chosen, but Mother tells him it was “always” supposed to be Jacob. He eventually drinks, and she says, “Now, you and I are the same.” She warns him never to go down into the golden cave, though, saying he’ll suffer a fate “worse than death.”

The next morning, Brother wakes above ground to find the dig site filled in and the well destroyed. He sees smoke and runs to find the small hut village burned and Owen and Beru the people slaughtered. He digs the Senet game from the wreckage and starts to seriously rage out. Meanwhile, Jacob and Mother are walking through the jungle ominously and not at all metaphorically talking about an impending storm. She sends him off for firewood while she returns to the cave to find it trashed. She sees the Senet game and opens it up to find one white stone and one black one. She’s examining the black one when she’s suddenly stabbed through the chest by Brother. She uses her last energy to tell him she kept him on the island only because she loved him, and then she thanks him, then dies. Even though he killed her, he’s still a son who lost his mom, and he weeps for her. That’s when Jacob comes home and sees what’s happened, and flies at his brother, beating him up just like when they were kids.

Jacob drags the woozy Brother through the jungle to the cave of golden light, knocks him out one final time, and drops his body into the water, which ferries it down into the mouth of the cave. Brother gets sucked down underground at the back of the cave, which is when the wheels really come off the wagon on Craphole Island. A thundering rattle sounds just as the smoke monster erupts from the mouth of the cave, no longer glowing like before. The monster flies over Jacob’s head and into the jungle and disappears. Jacob runs away and stops at a nearby stream, and just as Claudia did years before, he drinks some water before looking up and finding a surprise. This time it’s the body of his brother, splayed out on rocks and branches not far downstream from where the water emerges from within the hillside. Jacob cries as he touches his brother and then lifts the corpse, carrying it home to his old cave.

Once there, he grabs the white and black stones from near his mother’s body and slips them into the leather pouch that Jack and Kate will discover centuries later when they first explore the caves. He then lays the dead bodies next to each other in a raised enclave in one of the walls, pressing their hands together, and we get another brief cut to the first-season ep in which Locke dubs them “our very own Adam and Eve.” Still weeping softly, Jacob says, “Goodbye, brother. Goodbye.”

And that’s that. Like I said up top, it was kind of a truth dump, and there’s a lot of info to absorb and sort. For starters, I had no idea the whole “raised by another” thing that was such a big deal with Claire and Rousseau would have its roots in the way Jacob’s mother had murdered his birth mother and taken him to be the island’s guardian. But how did Mother get there? Either we will find out, or it will be just one of those things that’s accepted as a blind premise, like, “Once upon a time there was a magical island with a crazy lady on it whose job it was to guard the source of all living good and evil.”

What exactly happened to Brother when he got sucked into that cave? It seems like either (a) his presence set loose the smoke monster, which killed him and escaped, or (b) he became the smoke monster, having his soul and essence turned into a cloud while his body was discarded and sent down the falls. We didn’t see what happened in the cave of golden light, but having your soul ripped out and turned into an evil cloud, or at least bonded with it, would definitely qualify as “worse than death.” Both possibilities seem workable. Smokey can take the form of dead people, so maybe he killed Brother when the body went into the cave and now uses that form/personality as his default, like he did when we first saw him last season, when he and Jacob watched the Black Rock approach the island. We also know that the Enemy can take the thoughts and personality of the people it pretends to be, which is how it was able to discourse on John Locke’s final private thoughts before his death. So if the monster already existed and just took Brother’s form, it would stand to reason he got his feelings and ideas, as well. Then again, if Brother became the monster, that would go a long way toward clearing up the things MIB said to Claire a couple weeks back about having a “very disturbed” mother who caused him “growing pains.” What do you think? Is the smoke monster Jacob’s brother, or just a monster who pretends to be Brother to screw with Jacob’s stability? (I like the former, because it’s more tragic and [slightly] less complicated.)

Also, is there some other force on the island that just creates ghosts? Isabella for Richard; a young boy for the Man in Black; Claudia for Brother. Is this just one of those things that happens?

Still, it’s interesting to see the origin of so much of what the show is about now. Increasingly, things like DHARMA feel less like full plots and more like off-shoots caused by the real struggle between Jacob and the monster over an island whose pockets of electromagnetic power can change or destroy the world as well as generally futz with the flow of time. DHARMA came for the power, and Jacob’s people killed them and assimilated their few survivors, like Ben, who ousted Widmore from his leadership role in the Others. Ben and Widmore’s battle is a mirror of that between Jacob and his brother in that there are rules governing who can kill whom, though how these rules were carried down and applied remains unclear. But it can’t be an accident that Ben was healed as a boy in the Temple and that we’ve seen Sayid resurrected in a pool of lit water that bore a resemblance to the cave of golden light, right?

It’s also interesting to note that Jacob and the Man in Black are at this point both fighting because they’re trying to prove their mother wrong in different ways: MIB wants to escape to see the world across the sea, while Jacob wants to know that people have the capacity for a moral good that his mother said wasn’t possible.

Oh yeah: Mother also spent a lot of time telling Brother that he was “special,” a word that’s applied to Desmond a lot, as well, but who knows where that will lead. We’ll find out in a few hours.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society, as well as a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

I know there are people who "ooh" and "ah" over everything Lost does, and those people keep saying they aren't disappointed in the way things are playing out, but I am disappointed in some of this. The magic light...wow. Ok, so as a metaphor for God, the magic light gives goodness to the world, but if you go into the light, you'll meet a fate worse than death. Interesting. Oh and the people doing things in the name of the light turn out to be killers of other people and do plenty of bad things all while invoking the protection of the light. I'm good with those ideas and parallels to our own world.

But I thought this would be one of the best episodes of Lost, and it left me feeling very blah/meh. Janney's acting was empty and lifeless. Jacob turns out to be a whiny Mama's boy. We don't know how mommy dearest got her knowledge, so what little knowledge we gained was left open-ended yet again. I know it's Lost's thing to answer one question and create another hundred, but I thought they would slow that down at the end.

So the light is worse than death and turns people into evil spirits? I think the magic water in the temple must be over the top of the magic light area - and so what Dogen and the Others thought was a place of rebirth or healing may also have been the place to put darkness into people "reborn". The temple pool may be weaker area of the magic light water, so instead of making a full-fledged Smokey of everyone, it turns them into a zombie-ish person.

But at what point did Smokey figure out he could take the form of dead people? Was his mother just a ghost?

And MIB (and/or other people) did, in fact, find a way out using the light - the exit to Tunisia. I'd love to find out how that happened. And if they never explain that whole thing, I'll be bummed.

Titus Welliver was clearly the best thing about the episode. Phenomenal acting, made me completely sympathetic to MIB both as a child and a man. The episode did clearly give him all the motivation to be who he now is. Jacob, not so much.

We were all wrong about Adam and Eve!

Now to read...

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 11:31 AM

Release the doves!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 11:35 AM

To answer your question, Dan, I believe Brother was turned into Smokey (not just a monster impersonating Brother). Perhaps it is just his soul, but I do think he retained his "self" in this new form.

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 11:40 AM

I think it was rather risky to air this episode so late in the final season, especially since it introduced us to new characters. However, I think it paid off...if only so the dumb dumbs would stop saying that Rose and Bernard were Adam and Eve in the cave. Never bought that one, glad it isn't the case.

Now I have a bit of a theory that I've been working on since last night. I think I see the importance behind Walt and Aaron. Jacob and MIB were both abducted as babies. Perhaps it's easier to "train" someone to be the protector of the island at a young age...because they are still "good" and "innocent" in many ways. Which is why Walt and Aaron would be such desirable candidates. But now since both are out of the picture, back on the "main land" Jacob must find one of the old candidates. Does this make sense? It sure would explain Walt's importance in the first season.

I also believe that the light is the "evil" thing Jacob didn't want to release, which is why he is guarding it. Seems to me like the light stole MIB's soul turning him into evil, and discarded the body. I think the light also acts as metaphor for the APPLE IN THE STORY OF ADAM EVE. Do not touch. Don't be tempted to enter. And in this variation it is touched, but by Adam...inadvertantly of course.

If course, these are merely my theories and will probably turn out to be wrong when the next episode of Lost airs. Can I just say that I have a crush on MIB? He's some hot shit.

Posted by: citizen_cris at May 12, 2010 11:47 AM

I think it was ironic and telling that first mother said that MIB was "special" and then she told Jacob it was supposed to have been him all along. I don't think it frakking matters. I think the candidate could be anyone, and always could have been anyone. The person just needs to be weak enough to believe that it is his or her destiny to protect the island. Someone who has been so broken down (Locke, Jack) that he needs to have a special purpose.

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 11:51 AM

Release the kraken!

I was underwhelmed. Also, who knew Zac Efron would end up being Adam?

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 12, 2010 11:51 AM

I've been ruminating on this for HOURS and the recap helped a lot. But here's my thoughts.

What REALLY pissed me off about this episode was what has really been a major issue with Lost for me:

NO ONE EVER EXPLAINS SHIT. And I get that it's all part of the mystery and whatever, but how can people expect others to do what they want if they don't give reasons or explanations?

For example, we have MIB who is just CURIOUS about what's outside the Island. But his mom just tells him he can't leave, doesn't explain why, just that she says so. And then you're SURPRISED when he wants to know more?! Just saying "YOU CAN'T LEAVE" doesn't work! And "because I love you" IS NOT A GODDAMN EXPLANATION!!

So,really, all Mother and Jacob did to poor MIB was TURN him into what he became (I do think he changed into Smokey). In a few words, they MADE him this "evil incarnate" they keep claiming him to be. Because as far as I could tell he never did a bad thing aside from killing the woman he knew killed his OWN mother and kept him imprisoned with zero explanations. HOW exactly is he Evil Incarnate? Did going into the glowy river make him so? Then it's all just Jacob's damn fault! Was he EVER told what would happen if he left? Why the hell would he believe it if he was told? I wouldn't trust Jacob further than I could throw him.

So, argh. I just find it incredibly frustrating that we're three hours from the end and we're still getting this bullshit. I thought this episode would at least make their motivations clear, but it just made them more confusing and ridiculous.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 11:51 AM

Oh I have a question!!! Why later on in life does MIB want to keep people from coming to the island? Before he became smokey he needed the help of the "bad men" to help him get off the island. Why would he not want anyone else to come when they could help him again?

Posted by: citizen_cris at May 12, 2010 11:52 AM

I hope the pajiba commenters are more mature than the ones in the message boards I usually visit and don't start crying about the averageness of the episode and the magic light or insult those who didn't like the episode.
Anyway, I would have enjoyed this one more if it wasn't the third to last episode, I expected some more answers regarding the candidates, the smoke monster and the nature of the island; it was very nice to see a sympathetic side to MiB and there were some plot points that this episode presented that actually help in getting a small understanding of the mystery, but adding new questions and incomplete answers (I like to believe that the magic light will get a better explanation in the finale) made the episode just meh...it certainly didn't live up to the hype, but I'm willing to wait until the finale before I discard the explanation as silly.
Also, I like the idea that Smokie is not Jacob's brother, at least not entirely, just his memories and some part of his personality.

Posted by: Radlum at May 12, 2010 11:52 AM

So, here's what I hated the most about last night's episode:

You know, the more I think about this, the more mad I get about the Adam and Eve thing. FIRST of all, we have spent SIX YEARS thinking of "Adam and Eve" who were LOVERS (yes I'm still mad about that); secondly, I'm mad about taking a chunk of time to stick in that expository clip from season 1 which was COMPLETELY unnecessary; and thirdly, it doesn't make sense, since presumably Smokey is now going to come back and inhabit his old physical body, which is then going to be wandering around the island for a REALLY long time, so are we supposed to infer that when he's done with that body, he just goes back and lays down next to the body of his "Mother" again?! Ugh. Stupid. DON'T LIKE.

Oh, and by the way, weren't the bones in the cave wearing polyester? Didn't they talk about the disintegration rate of the clothes in trying to figure out how old they were? BACK IN SEASON 1? And after SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS, why would they still have had ANY clothes on them? Ugh. So we're just going to forget that whole part, then? DUMB.

I just needed to get that off my chest. So, now I will read, and then probably comment some more. 'Cause that's how I roll.

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 11:53 AM

My read on Smokey is sort of in the middle, I guess. I think it's both some sort of blinding, sublime ineffability of the universe, some sort of smokey version of what's inside the Ark of the Covenant, which was unleashed by grafting onto a human soul, in this case the Man in Black's. So, although it did retain the MIB's personality and desires, due to his being the soul it was freed with, I also think the real Man in Black is buried in the caves, just like the real John Locke was dead on the beach.

Also, I wrote this over at the AV Club that I figure I'll repost verbatim: "This episode hammers home the fact that the Man in Black and Jacob are neither good or bad; they're both just tragic. The Man in Black simply wanted to leave an Island that he associated with pain and betrayal, and was killed by his simple-minded brother for exacting an admittedly overwrought vengeance. Jacob was raised in ignorance and obedience to a woman who didn't deserve it, and after killing his own brother, he finds himself literally haunted by his mistake, and spends thousands of years growing, learning, and trying to clean up after himself. The Man in Black was punished for what wasn't rightly his fault, and Jacob is left cleaning up a mess he never wanted to make. The Smoke Monster, on the other hand, is the bad guy, or the antagonist at least, because its essence unleashed on the world would almost surely end in its destruction. It's used the form and personality of the Man in Black for so long that it's inextricably linked with him, but they are no more one and the same than he and John Locke are."

Also also, according to Lostpedia, Kenton Duty played the mysterious boy from a few episodes ago and Young Jacob, so is it safe to assume that Jacob's ghost has been appearing to Smokey and chiding him?

Posted by: kyle at May 12, 2010 11:53 AM

stopthemadness: the hair was driving me INSANE. Also, they were shitty actors. I think the whole ep would've worked better with more talented kids.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 11:53 AM

Also, is there some other force on the island that just creates ghosts? Isabella for Richard; a young boy for the Man in Black; Claudia for Brother. Is this just one of those things that happens?

Did Richard ever see Isabella, or are you referring to Hurley's interception? And as I'm going with MIB being the same as Brother, the last two could be explained as Brother being "special" like Hurley or Miles, or even Walt.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 11:55 AM

I was forgetting something, was I the only one annoyed by the clips from season 1 regarding Kate and Jack finding Adam and Eve? I mean, if there's someone watching the final season of Lost, then the writers should assume that we all rememeber Adam and Eve, we didn't need to see the clips, we are not that dumb.

Posted by: Radlum at May 12, 2010 11:56 AM

Dan, wasn't it Locke who was always told he was "special"? I mean, we all think Desmond is special, but the show really beat us - and Locke - over the head with his supposed specialness.

I'm thinking Jacob may have accidentally murdered his own brother, and since the body was never buried (it was actually served right up to Smokey), Smokey was able to take Brother's form. And he inherited all the worst parts of Brother. Brother, when alive, was actually a really decent, thoughtful, incredibly intelligent individual. Jacob was a dullard, and a fucking pussy and goddamn it, I liked Jacob a lot more before this episode.

I am the biggest LOST apologist out there, or in here, whichever, but I was not happy when my clock flashed 10:02 and I hadn't learned much I couldn't have figured out on my own. And I didn't care who Adam and Eve were.

I want to know how Jacob learned to leave the island. How did he choose the candidates? How did he learn to observe them? Who the hell built the statue (of Tawaret? I assume that Mother and Claudia spoke Latin because they existed in Roman times, so what the hell is a statue of an Egyptian goddess doing on the island?), and the Temple? How did Jacob know how to keep Smokey contained (ash)? Why was Jacob so distant from everyone who came after him? Why was he so secretive? Why was Kate disqualified from her candidacy?

I had been looking forward to this episode for months. Crap.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 11:57 AM

I read somewhere before the episode that Allison Janney was playing "Mother Earth", which I thought was interesting.

Also, if she 'made it so that they could never hurt each other', why the hell could Jacob not only beat the shit out of his brother but also throw him into the cave?

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 11:59 AM

P.S. Very interesting that the "Mother" kept saying, "I'm so. I'm so, so sorry" before bashing people's heads in, kind of like how Desmond kept saying he was sorry before doing stuff to people...

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 12:00 PM

I mostly enjoyedthe episode but I absolutely could have done without the Kate/Jack/Locke flashback over the Adam and Eve explanation. You know what, I'm generally pretty smart and I got it without the heavy handed explanation.

Posted by: elsie at May 12, 2010 12:00 PM

If one of Jacob's main objectives is to find a good soul amongst humankind, he could do a lot worse than Hurley. After last night, I am firmly entrenched in the idea that, if there is to be a Protector selected, it will be Hurley. He is a kind-hearted guy who finds good in everyone, but now he's learned to be forceful and commanding when necessary; both traits being important in dealing with Smokey.

So Smokey is the Light of Life (twisted as it is)? The light went out in the cave when Smokey appeared, so that's the logic assumption. If that's true, then destroying him means destroying life everywhere, right? I'm curious about how this will be handled.

I like the idea above of the Rejuvenation Pool being a smaller version of the Cave of Light, though the effects might wear off after awhile considering Ben's soft-hearted moments recently. But you can never tell with Ben. He'll probably end up being the key to doing whatever needs to be done to Smokey since he presumably has traces of Smokey's evil and will find a way to use that against him.

One last thought: I'm avoiding categorizing episodes as "disappointing" until the show is over (though this one seemed flimsy despite the revelations). If we don't know where we'll end up, it's foolish to effectively condemn the driver for the route they take.

Posted by: Kballs at May 12, 2010 12:01 PM

I agree with you Kyle,

I don't think Smokey is the complete MIB. I think he latched onto MIB's soul because he saw all the anger and rage in MIB from discovering the truth about his mother and then from her killing off everyone. I think Smokey recognized this anger in MIB, exploited it, and took his soul...well the angry part anyways.

Posted by: citizen_cris at May 12, 2010 12:01 PM

Oh, and to my mind MIB just had his soul ripped out of his body and he became Smokey--discarding the body, which allowed him to take the form of others.

And as heavy-handed as it was, I liked that MIB called out Jacob on making his own rules about the game, since Jacob has mentioned 'the rules' to MIB quite a few times. So did he just make up these 'laws' (regarding candidates, etc) and Smokey has to follow them no matter what? that ties in nicely to my idea that Smokey is sort of beholden to Jacob, following his orders until one day he managed to break out.

OK I'm done posting for now.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:02 PM

It's used the form and personality of the Man in Black for so long that it's inextricably linked with him, but they are no more one and the same than he and John Locke are."

I agree 100%. And this makes MIB an even more tragic figure.

And yes, we could have done without the flashback to House of the Rising Sun. LAME, Darlton. Thanks for insulting the fans who have stuck it out with you this entire time.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:03 PM

Anna von BeaversmackitupflipitrubitdownOHNO: The body of Your Brother (the name I gave to MIB last night) doesn't need to move from the spot in the caves for Smokey to inhabit it. Remember that Locke's body was still in the coffin while Smocke walked off with Richard over his shoulder. So, I guess the dead body just needs to be on the island and not necessarily in a spot where it can get up and move and then return to later.

Posted by: Pinky McLadybits at May 12, 2010 12:04 PM

Oh and Dan, nice Star Wars reference there.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:08 PM

I haven't finished the review but all the ripping on the writing is hard to take. i love your recaps but your standards for lindelof and cuse might be a little high. They have a lot riding on them with these episodes. I think they are doing a fine job and I'm happy they took the initiative to finish the series themselves rather than have other writers do it, even if another writer might have been a little more "nuanced."

Posted by: dills at May 12, 2010 12:08 PM

It appeared to me that they did absolutely nothing to age Alison Janney over the thirty to forty years this episode covered (or seemed to anyway). Do you suppose that was an oversight, or was she immortal in the way so many others on the island are?

Posted by: Todd at May 12, 2010 12:10 PM

yowl, brother is as sexy as keamy.

that said, i'm still trying to absorb this ep.

i have a feeling that jacob's game will be revealed soon...knew i never liked that sniveling mama's boy...i'm completely on team brother/smokey.

at this point tho, i'm just going to rest my brain and wait for it to be played out-no amount of thinking will sort this out. i'll just be busy hoping that carlton/damon don't drop the ball.

also, is it still definite that the finale will be 2 1/2 hours instead of just 2?

Posted by: found at May 12, 2010 12:10 PM

1. My brain hurts.

2. I found this the most challenging episode so far. And plan to blither for the
next several minutes -

It makes sense to me that if the light is the source of all things, then it must
also contain darkness. If "God" is encompasses everything, then "God" contains all evil too.

Totally with citizen_chris on the Garden of Eden thing. Who knows how many mythologies contain the notion of the temptation and fall of humankind? We thought the same thing about the role of finding "special children" on the
island as well. It's a nice answer for the Walt issue and gets it out of the way
very neatly.

I have so many questions about Smokey and MIBs manifestation and
conjoining. Richard warned that if they took Ben to the temple for healing,
he would be forever changed. The element of darkness Ben contains seems to mirror the transformation/transubstantiation of Smokey/MIB when sent into
the light (how ironic). In the current timeline, with Jacob gone and the "light" drained from the pool, perhaps all that could enter Sayid was the darkness, or conversely all of his light was removed and he was rendered the luscious manlocks flowing zombie we all know and mourn.

When MIB and Jacob spoke on the beach it was Smokey in MIB's form, right? Does this mean that Smokey, by meshing with MIB seeks Brother's goals despite non-corporeal form? Does it view MIB/Locke etc as a vehicle for its own foray across the sea?

What is going on with the voices of trapped souls versus Smokey taking on familiar forms? Are these both happening? Who has the power to distinguish between the two? Hurley?

Does The Candidate need to drink the special liquid (wafer optional) to assume Jacob's role? Didn't we see that bottle smashed? What are the odds that The Candidate will find the lighted spring? I'm thinking pretty good. And when I say "The Candidate" I mean Jack.

Richard is going to murdered and like Mother, he will thank his attacker. Who's with me?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 12:11 PM

The dead body just has to be unburied for Smokey to take its form. Jacob essentially served up his brother's body for Smokey to inhabit. Smokey has been using Brother's body, and now Locke's, to get off the island. YES, Brother wanted to leave, but so does Smokey, I think it's just coincidence that the first body he was able to inhabit after Jacob RELEASED HIM (I think the golden light was holding Smokey, keeping it from escaping into the world) was Brother's, who wanted the same thing Smokey wants. OR, Smokey wants to leave so badly because that was the last thought Brother had before he died. Jesus. This show.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:12 PM

- The timing of this episode did not make a lot of sense. A full episode origin tale of Jacob and MIB would have made a lot more sense earlier in the finals season. This close to the end it creates a lot of confusion and frustration. Odd choice by the writers.

- "I only had one name" was the biggest laugh line of the season so far. I cracked up at that, and I really have to admire the balls on these writers to throw a punch line like that in to a show that so many people take so seriously.

- Deus ex machina and unmotivated character developments continue to mar the final season and it seems more clear than ever that we are going to get a sloppy resolution that will be somewhat disappointing after such a great run.

For the entire series we have had characters who speak and act with a mysterious insight into how the island works and how events are supposed to play out. As an audience we are always left wondering "ohhhh, how does he know that! What insight does he have into the bigger picture and how does he have it?" It was cool and mysterious and left open all sorts of possibility. But as the final season has played out it becomes apparent that there is no explaination for this phenomenon and no one really knows shit. Jacob and MIB in this latest revelation really don't know what is happening or why or how it works and their "mother" apparently didn't either.

The problem with this is that so many of the events that have come before have been due to these people who act as if they know what is happening, it all falls apart if they are in the dark. Actions don't have motivations. Why is anyone doing what they are doing? In the past, in the present, in the alternate timeline... is anyones acting in a logical way based on the information they have at the time? No. It's as if a bunch of guys in a conference room are sitting around making it up as they go along trying to get us to point Z in two weeks or less.

This season has ruined my suspension of disbelief and left me with no confidence that there will be a satisfying resolution. I'm still ok with it because the first 5 seasons were a lot of fun with a lot of good twists and open-ended mysteries (and I only invested 5 weeks to watching them, not 5 years) but I'm only playing out the string to see where it goes, I'm not expecting anything much.


Posted by: Yossarian at May 12, 2010 12:13 PM

Todd I'm pretty sure it was the immortality thing--remember how Jacob and Richard never seemed to change.

I guess we'll never know why Smokey is now stuck as Locke. Not that it really matters in the context of so many unanswered questions.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:14 PM

Kolby - The MIB is definitely tragic, but I really think Jacob is too. A lot of people are complaining that we found out that Jacob was kind of stupid last night, and well, we did. He was, and probably is, kind of stupid. Isn't that one of the themes of the show though? Taking mysterious figures and shining a light on them? "The Man Behind the Curtain," and all that?

It's also ironic that in the Biblical Jacob and Esau story, our Jacob is the Esau figure. First-born of the twins and simple-minded, raised with blind obedience but openly loved less than his smarter, more clever, more rebellious younger brother. Jacob isn't really a mastermind at all; he's essentially a child. Over the past two thousand years or so he's grown up considerably, but he's still just a kid who watched the mother he loved die and who condemned his brother to a fate worse than death.

I get that some people may not like that, but that's not the show's fault. The fact is, we didn't know much know much about Jacob until tonight. He seemed serene, and like he knew a lot more than we did. He seemed like the Omnipotent Master of the Island, but so did Ben, and so did Richard. There IS NO Omnipotent Master of the Island. There are just frightened people dealing with things they don't understand, and whether you're an immortal Roman orphan, an escaped Spanish slave, or a bright American kid with an abusive father, nothing changes and nothing ends.

Posted by: Kyle at May 12, 2010 12:16 PM

This episode took place in 23 AD, right? So yeah, Roman times.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:16 PM

I'm with you, Yossarian--look at my first comment. My biggest problem is how unrealistically everyone acts on this show; NO ONE in their mind would accept the 'explanations' people give each other on this show. And so often these explanations are of the "because I said so!" or "you have to trust me!" or "there's no time!" or "it's the right thing to do!" non-answer variety, and it drives me insane. I hate that we're just supposed to accept this.

And from now on my answer whenever anyone questions something I did will be "Because I LOVE YOU" which was the biggest laugh line of the season to me.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:17 PM

Where did you get 23AD from? IS that supported by anything in the show? I was wondering when this episode took place.

Posted by: Yossarian at May 12, 2010 12:18 PM

I'm a big LOST dork, & this episode was garbage. Only worthwhile moment was unconscious MIB floating down the magic water slide, for the LOLZ.

Posted by: the new transported man at May 12, 2010 12:19 PM

I was disappointed with this episode as well. It mostly served to create even more questions: who re-dug the "donkey wheel" well (it eventually required a rather long elevator ride via the Orchid station to access)? Who guarded the "magic light pool" while Jacob was off in the "real" (maybe) world touching the 815 passengers? How did MIB assume his own form again after he was (presumably) already dead? What did their (not) mother mean when she said she "made it so they couldn't hurt one another" (which was obviously not true anyway)? What makes MIB "evil"? His motivation for wanting to leave the island seemed quite rational to me. How have so many people been able to leave the island (via several different means) while MIB can't? How was MIB/Flocke (& Sawyer and Desmond too) able to see young Jacob running around in the jungle? I honestly had hoped this episode in particular would have answered a lot of the still-pending mysteries instead of creating even more.

I wasn't too thrilled with the big "Adam & Eve" reveal either. One of them is a character introduced only this week? It felt to me like it was merely a way to answer a mystery for the sake of answering one and I found the season one flashback to be kind of heavy-handed as well.

The bottom line is that we're three and a half hours away from the end of this thing and I still don't really have a handle on season six, let alone the five previous seasons. While I realize we'll never get any kind of "grand unification"-type explanation to tie all of this together to everyone's complete satisfaction, I was really hoping they'd do better than a "weird for the sake of weird"-style ending.

I SO hope the creators of this show have an ace up their sleeves because if this thing ends on a cryptic, open-ended note I'm not going anywhere near the Internet on the morning of the 24th because it's going to be downright ugly.

Posted by: Dr Remulak at May 12, 2010 12:20 PM

Richard is going to murdered and like Mother, he will thank his attacker. Who's with me?

I'm with you, Mrs Julien.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 12:21 PM

ALSO, I want to know where the hell these shipwrecked people got so much extra metal and tools and whatever--enough to dig giant holes and built complicated machines. It's like Gilligan's Island up in there.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:21 PM

Didn't Hurley stumble upon The Cabin Formerly Known as Jacob's? Does
that portend something for his role?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 12:23 PM

In reference to everyone's frustration about the lack of explanations/answers/reveals/resolutions, my greatest hope is that the to-be-determined Protector will intake a TON of knowledge about the island when he assumes his duties and that we'll get to experience it as well. It gives teh writers a fairly believable way to provide a ton of answers. Mother said, "we are the same," so it makes sense that some sort of "historical memory" is being passed down amongst the Protectors, but the Wine Bottle of Knowledge being smashed is definitely a problem.

Also, OUTSTANDING analysis by the Pajibettes so far. *golf clap*

Posted by: Kballs at May 12, 2010 12:26 PM

Yossarian - I think I read it in a spoiler a while ago. It was either 23 or 32 AD, but Lostpedia gives the time as sometime between 450BC and 900 AD. VERY helpful.

OOh, also, Claudia was the mother of Romulus and Remus. Yay! More mythology!

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:29 PM

You're a golf clap.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 12:29 PM

I don't actually know what that means, but it sounded funny.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 12:29 PM

I'm with you ladies, Basement Cat is a tasty morsel of dark meat.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 12:30 PM

Come over here and I'll show you what a golf clap is you mouthy minx.

Posted by: Kballs at May 12, 2010 12:31 PM

figgy

It's bad enough that no one will give a satisfying explanation for anything they do to other characters. I can understand some need for secrecy on the part of Ben, or Widmore, or Jacob, or MIB, but my problem is that as a viewer I can't infer a reasonable motivation for these characters' actions. Why are they doing this? Why are they so sure it is the right thing to do? What makes them think they know how the island will respond? If nobody knows the rhyme or reason for how things work, why are they so assured that this or that crazy-ass plan will work, or that "it's what the island wants".


And I kind of liked that when we first met Jacob and MIB they had sort of modern accents and style, but the idea that as little kids they would possess that developed of a vocabulary and be able to articulate the concepts they did (especially in regard to the possible existence of other people, etc.) if they were raised on an island with only one other known inhabitant is ridiculous. I don't want to nit pick continuity errors but those kids would be inarticulate wild things and certainly not able to even conceive of many of the hypothetical and complex concepts they discussed. Just silliness.

Posted by: Yossarian at May 12, 2010 12:31 PM

YES, thank you for saying that Kolby! I knew there was a reason the wolfy nicknames were so brilliant!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 12:34 PM

My take on Smokey/MIB is that when Brother was sent into the light all of the good within him was killed and only the evil remained. He admitted that the people he had been living with for 30 years really were "bad", but he had learned to identify with it by stating that bad was ok when it was a means to an end. Jacob, having never lived with the 'others', remained ignorant and "good". I think Smokey is all of the bad remains of brother, while the good was left to die with his twisted corpse that Jacob found in the bushes. This is why those who are familiar with the story refer to MIB as being "evil incarnate". This could also be why MIB maintains his mission of leaving the island, to join with the outside world that he also knows is filled with bad.

Make sense?

Posted by: katy at May 12, 2010 12:36 PM

Oh what the hell, here, read these, maybe they chose this song for next week's promo for a reason:

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again

Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land

Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah

There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby

Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold

The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we'll do the rest

The blue bus is callin' us
The blue bus is callin' us
Driver, where you taken' us

The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother...I want to...fuck you

C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
C'mon, yeah

Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die

This is the end

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:37 PM

And I also think that Smokey inhabited Brother's body in the same way he currently inhabits John Locke's.

Posted by: katy at May 12, 2010 12:38 PM

And not to harp on the negative here but I think the flashback to season 1 and the discovery of Adam & Eve was really unnecessary and insulting to the viewers. Did anyone really have trouble seeing that these were going to be the bodies that would eventually be discovered by Jack and Kate? Why spoon feed us something like that when we can make the connection ourselves?

David Simon, creator of the Wire, took a lot of pride in not insulting his viewers intelligence or dumbing down his show by having flashbacks or constantly including forced dialogue to explain what was happening or why. For the most part LOST has been a show that respects the intelligence of it's viewers but that scene was really awkward and unnecessary.

Posted by: Yossarian at May 12, 2010 12:39 PM

I've been saying all along Yoss-- a really good mystery story will at least give the reader hints that will allow them to at least get at the heart of the story, or even figure it out before the end. This show gives us NOTHING but more confusion and in that way it's a really shitty mystery and not really fair to the viewers at all. We're supposed to 'trust the writers', but why would I? It's three and a half pages from the end of the book and a surprise ending that we couldn't even come close to predicting because we were missing giant pieces is just completely unfair and unsatisfying. And a cheap cop-out.

And your second paragraph? YES. I think that's why the whole episode felt off for me--it's like they couldn't make up their minds where they were in time or situation. If the Mother really wanted to control how these kids thought and felt she could have, very easily. But she goes and brains Brother for being curious about the outside world? How can you blame him?

I mean, how the hell does Jacob know about the candidates or how to find them or how to build a magic lighthouse when we never saw his Mother (who we ASSUME has all knowledge because she was there first) explain a damn thing to him? It's just more questions piled on top of each other and at this point I think the writers are trying desperately hard to keep everything together but things just keep slipping through their fingers. Let's face it--they're not THAT good.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:40 PM

I guess we'll never know why Smokey is now stuck as Locke. Not that it really matters in the context of so many unanswered questions.

i thought Artz 2.0 said that Smokey is stuck as Locke because they buried the real Locke while Smokey was using his form.

i actually though this was the best episode this season. it tied a lot of outstanding issues together, but, with the exception of the flashback--which was ridic--it wasn't too heavy-handed. of course, i also liked the way that BsG ended, so i'm not one for wrapping everything up nice and neat.

my only issue so far is that they keep telling me that Smokey is evil, but i still don't see it. he has some pretty valid motivations for his actions and while they seem over the top at first, he has been doing this for thousands of years, it makes sense that he is totally frustrated and will do whatever it takes to get off that island. i am totally biased though, i have always been on team Smokey, and i love Titus Welliver.

Posted by: pq at May 12, 2010 12:41 PM

think there was anything to claudia (jacob & mib's real mom) seeing crazy janney reflected in the pool?
am i just extending the mirror references too far?
i think crazy janney was bullshitting a lot.
she had no idea who else was on the island.
i don't think she put that senet game on the beach for mib to find.
also, did mib 'know' how to play that game b/c he was dejavu'ing another life? (much like jack, etc will have occasions of 'remembering' in the sideways flashes?)

Posted by: huey, dewey, and/or louey at May 12, 2010 12:41 PM

That Jim Morrison was some fucked up.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 12:42 PM

I've been a fan of the show (even through season 3), but have really felt that has unraveled for the past two seasons. The meta-story that is now being revealed is ... intriguing and still enjoyable. Plus all the nuances about the motivations of characters, destiny, good v evil, etc. However, after spending too much time pondering I have some big concerns as it wraps up:

- unexplained devices to move essential and non-essential plot points. i.e. ghosts and who can see them, how much do the "others" throughout time know about the big picture, the rules. everything doesn't need to be explained in detail, but they have played the Deus ex machina card a lot since season 4.
- the creators seem to be waffling a bit on when they came up with key points of the story. creative process, new ideas - fine and dandy, but recent interviews kinda smells like winging it.
- the episodes don't seem nearly as tight as the first two seasons. way too much is simply glossed over or accepted as a given.
- sure some questions won't be answered to the hardcore viewer's satisfaction, but a lot of time was spent on material that was simply discarded. Go back to the dialog with Ben in the hatch, DHARMA and food drops, WALT!!!

ok, fine, maybe they will bring it all home in the next 3.5 hours, but I have a bad feeling that this will end like most of my post-HS research papers, a spasm just to get to the end and have done with it.

I want to believe

Posted by: Tyzerman at May 12, 2010 12:43 PM

Tell me about it, Mrs. J.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:44 PM

katy: I think I agree with Smokey being the evil remains of MIB's soul. But then it means that all of this is Mother's and Jacob's fault. They turned him into what he was, then Jacob can't really control him, he ends up dead and has no one to blame but himself. Why would ANYONE be on Jacob's side at this point is beyond me.

Yoss: it was pretty insulting to me. MrFig, who has only watched this season, was maybe the only one who needed the callback and even he thought it was dumb. How many people are watching these few eps without watching from the start? durrr.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:47 PM

I too did not like the flashback to season 1 with Jack, Kate, and Locke. It totally broke the narrative convention of the series.

I think that we need to consider some other force on the Island. For all season, I've had the nagging feeling that there is some sort of third party involved. This is because I'm not convinced that Smokey and all of the dead people that he has impersonated have been consistently working over the whole arc of the story towards the final gambit of leaving the Island. This may be because I can't remember all of these interactions. But still, I think that there might be more going on here.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at May 12, 2010 12:47 PM

Dr. Remulak, some answers...

Who re-dug the "donkey wheel" well

I assumed it was the Dharma people.

Who guarded the "magic light pool" while Jacob was off in the "real" (maybe) world touching the 815 passengers?

Wasn't Dogan doing this? And if Dogan wasn't around at that time, but we know he eventually existed, isn't it safe to assume there was probably someone else in his role before him?

How did MIB assume his own form again after he was (presumably) already dead?

The same way he has also inhabited Christian Sheppard and John Locke. I don't feel the need for a detailed physiological explanation myself.

What did their (not) mother mean when she said she "made it so they couldn't hurt one another" (which was obviously not true anyway)?

What makes MIB "evil"?

I posted my own theory on these above, that seems like a plausible explanation.

How have so many people been able to leave the island (via several different means) while MIB can't?

How was MIB/Flocke (& Sawyer and Desmond too) able to see young Jacob running around in the jungle?

I'll give you these, we still don't have the answers yet.

Do we need every single little thing spoon fed to us? Talk about insulting the viewer.

Posted by: katy at May 12, 2010 12:49 PM

I was just thinking of something, and hopefully someone here can help me find the answer to my newest question: Is Desmond the only character whose parent(s) we haven't met? If so, I think this may be significant.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:50 PM

Ok, I'm going to make my comments, THEN go back and read everyone else's.

I think Smokey IS the brother. His soul or essence or whatever was ripped out in the cave and his body expelled.

On another site, I read an interesting theory. We never learned his name....someone postulated that his name is important, that's why we didn't hear it. His name (could be) Aaron. Taken from his real mother, raised by another, "special", blah blah blah. Makes as much sense as anything else on LOST.

My son called the cave of light "Gay Leprechaun Land." I thought that was fantastic!

Oh, and THANKS for beating us over the head with the symbolism of black/white/good/evil and Adam & Eve!!!

Overall, a solid meh from me. Info, yes, but was it helpful? Dunno

Posted by: dammitjanet at May 12, 2010 12:52 PM

Anna von BeaversmackitupflipitrubitdownOHNO:

AHAHAHAHHAhaaHAHhahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! Awe. Some.

So, yeah, I realized that a short while ago, Pinky. And that makes it *slightly* less stupid. Although that was already the least stupid part of it.

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 12:59 PM

Ojo Verde, I think you might be right, but not quite. You have to wonder about the dead mother vision. Maybe this 'evil force' has been on the Island all along, and the Mother was the force balancing it out. And then Jacob became the 'light' side and MIB became the 'dark side', so these two forces have always been at play here, with different personifications every now and then. This would explain the immortality, I think. So I doubt that it will end with the DEATH of MIB, I think it will end with him being caged again somehow.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 12:59 PM

katy - I don't think there's much mystery to the Young Jacob running around. Jacob's dead, and ghosts are always running around. Granted, we've never seen one take the form of the same person at different points in their lives, but if it's ultimately just Jacob's ghost in a young form, I think that's satisfactory.

Also, everyone's still complaining about a lack of motivation, characters just running around doing things without knowing if they're right. I mentioned it before upthread, but I'll say it again here too: I think that's the point. Think of it as a Lovecraft story. We've gotten to the point where we're one shiny cave away from staring Cthulhu in the face. As we've unraveled the story, we realize that what's at the center is completely unknowable and intrinsic to the universe, and all the layers of intrigue on top were people just making the same mistakes over and over again, people trying to meddle in affairs that they shouldn't. Every single storyline has hammered home the point of "as above, so below," so why honestly would you expect Jacob and the MIB's story to be drastically different?

I'm seriously starting to think that if "Live Together, Die Alone" is the ultimate theme of the show, "The Man Behind the Curtain" is a close second.

Posted by: Kyle at May 12, 2010 1:00 PM

I wonder how much we are being beaten over the head with the symbolism
and how much that may be an inevitable response to any recurrence of it.
That kind of symbolism is so entrenched in our culture that it doesn't take
much to go over the edge.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 1:00 PM

Well said Kyle!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 1:01 PM

I have more than a few issues with this episode that have already been talked about--but what I REALLY want to know is, how in the hell did 'The Mother' kill all those people from the village and totally destroy it (not to mention the well), BY HERSELF? Do you think she could summon the smoke monster to do her dirty work, ala Ben when Keamy and crew were threatening Dharmaville?

Posted by: birdgal at May 12, 2010 1:05 PM

I'll call bullshit on that, for two simple reasons: they've obviously been working on answers and giving explanations to things, so I think there's definitely a lot of answers coming at us in the end. And two, the writers are not that good. That would be giving them far more credit than I think they deserve.

I love this show, and I think it's mostly well written but, come on. They're not that great and this show has had a LOT of weak writing moments.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 1:05 PM

Katy- your right on about MIB. I think the current incarnation as Locke still has all the same desires and motivations that the original MIB had, only without the "good" part of him. I also don't think at all that the light or the island or anything else has anything do to with GOD. I am a staunch atheist who rejects all references to religion, though. I still think any relation to any GOD of any kind is only vague and distant because the show deals with the same existential/ethical questions about good and evil that religion does. THE LIGHT IS NOT GOD.

I can't get over how negative everyone has been about this episode. It doesn't bother me- everyone gotta get shit off their chest- but I just don't agree. I though the episode, while accurately described as heavy-handed, was really good. ok... maybe not really good but good. I liked the reveals and the questions now posed as a result.

I just think most people are requiring too much explanation, partly because the show has set itself up as such a profound mystery and now nobody's predictions are turning out to be right. I remember all the talk about how jacob was good and MIB was bad... WRONG. There is a much more nuanced balance of good and evil in both jacob and MIB. Also, who cares about who built the fucking tawaret or why certain characters can speak certain languages at certain times or why the 13 yr olds could wax poetic on certain issues most 13 yr olds can't. Who cares if Adam and eve weren't "lovers." Obviously, they have been on the island for a long time and they can get shit in various ways, including bringing people to the island. I just think everyone is asking too much from the writers. Who cares that the Dharma isn't playing into the major plotline of the final season? Who cares what the silly rules are explaining exactly how some people can appear to others and some people can't? The minutia you people require in wrapping this show up is fucking nuts!!! Is this the credit they deserve for making six (or maybe five) years of great fucking TV?

Questions I want answered: How can Jacob leave? What is the game he and MIB are playing? What are the rules? Why can jacob leave and MIB can't? There are others but I've been ranting.

And I still enjoy pajibaland even if I sometimes disagree with the natives.

Posted by: dills at May 12, 2010 1:07 PM

How did Mother, after bashing up Brother, manage to take down the entire village of people herself? Those dudes looked beat up.

Posted by: Walt Diesel at May 12, 2010 1:09 PM

Someone who has been so broken down (Locke, Jack) that he needs to have a special purpose.

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 11:51 AM

So, they turn into Navin Johnson?

Posted by: dammitjanet at May 12, 2010 1:14 PM

Kyle - right on about the intrinsic mystery of the show and all. well said. I also think that a lot can happen in 3.5 hours of airtime and next weeks ep is called "Why they died." I am certain this spells answers. They might crush us, as if we had a couple thousand tons of truth dumped on us per dan, but i'm okay with that. In fact, I find it exciting.

Posted by: dills at May 12, 2010 1:14 PM

@dills

In case some of the GOD vitriol was directed at my remarks, I should like to
point out that I used quotation marks for the term and did not say the
light was GOD. In the context of a mythology and source of all things
discussion, I don't think referring to a "deity" is all that out there.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 1:16 PM

I'm still wondering how the hell Mother filled in that entire dig site and the well, carried Brother out, killed everyone else and set their village on fire in what seems to have been one night. Makes no sense to me unless she somehow had access to a bulldozer and an automatic weapon.

What's the big deal with not giving us a name for Brother? It's not like the lack of a name makes him more mysterious. It's just stupid.

And HOW did Mother make it so that they couldn't hurt each other (which Jacob had no problem doing)? Was it just a wacky lie? And why won't they know death? Are we supposed to just accept that she has magical powers and whatever she thinks is how it is?

Not really overjoyed with the whole "magic light" thing either. Whoever came up with the design is seriously retarded. All it takes is one dude able to overpower a crazy lady and the light all over the world can go out. Then again, if she managed to kill all those people, maybe she's tougher than she looks.

I totally agree with this review; this episode insulted its audience at a number of points and it pissed me off.

Posted by: DeadBessie at May 12, 2010 1:20 PM

I think we should start calling MIB "Cosmo".

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 1:26 PM

Is Desmond the only character whose parent(s) we haven't met? If so, I think this may be significant.
Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 12:50 PM

Hm... we never met Michael's parents, did we? Though in that case, he *was* the parent, I suppose. Locke, yes; Jack, yes; Sawyer, sort of -oh, I guess we did actually see his mom, right?- Kate, yes; Jin and Sun, yes and yes; Claire, yes; Charlie, yes; Hurley, yes; Shannon and Boone, yes? I think; Rose and Bernard, no, I don't think, not that it matters since they don't exist anymore, apparently; Juliet, yes; Ben, yes; Richard, um, no?; the Tailies, no? (Eko, brother; Ana, yes, her mom; Libby, no), though again, I guess they don't count at this point; Faraday, yes; Charlotte, sort of; Miles, yes.

Who am I missing?

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 1:26 PM

I know that Mother said she made it so the boys couldn't "hurt" each other, but I thought it was established that they couldn't kill each other. I don't think MIB was actually dead when he floated into the light-cave. I think the smoke monster was there and MIB set it free when his body entered the cave. MIB then died when Smokey assumed his identity (by rending his soul from his body???).

Posted by: elsie at May 12, 2010 1:34 PM

I guess what I'm trying to say, AvB, is that it doesn't seem Desmond has any family besides the one he built with Penny. No parents, no siblings - none that were mentioned, at least. This must mean something, since they've gone out of their way to illustrate the struggle each character has had with his or her family.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 1:36 PM

Who cares if Adam and eve weren't "lovers." [...] The minutia you people require in wrapping this show up is fucking nuts!!!

My point about that was that they've been referred to as Adam and Eve since season one (and repeatedly in the intervening seasons), which carries certain connotations (e.g., lovers), and to have built up a particular expectation regarding that CLEARLY IMPORTANT plot element and then throw that all away seems pointless, baseless, absurd, and insulting. It wasn't minutia, because it was referred to REPEATEDLY through the course of the series; so to, in effect, MAKE it minutia, seems a reflection not of poor writing, as we've seen many fine examples of excellent writing throughout the show, but of the fact that perhaps the creators got in over their heads. I mean, there's still people clamoring to know what the deal is with the Hurley-bird, which was clearly a throw-away moment if ever I've seen one; that's not the same thing. That was a one-time thing, that never happened again, and was never brought up again. I'm only asking for a resolution that answers to the expectations that were set up. I don't think it's too much to ask!

P.S. I'm not starting a fight with you, I'm just ...disagreeing. :)

P.P.S. Basement Cat. Hee.

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 1:40 PM

Yeah, Kolby, I agree with you. I was just trying to think of anyone whose family in some capacity we haven't met, but we have with everyone. You might be right about that.

He's his own grandfather! That's why.

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 1:41 PM

Which BY THE WAY makes it make MUCH MORE SENSE for Des and Penny to be Adam and Eve. I'm just saying.

(Muah ah ha!!)

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 1:43 PM

Nah, I knew Adam and Eve couldn't have been any of the Losties...which is another reason why I didn't give a shit who they were.

Why so angry, dills?

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 1:46 PM

I've selected and unselected about 10 comments or bits of comments so that I can either agree or disagree or be all, "boo ya!" but the funniest fucking thing so far on this board is:

You're a golf clap.

I am absolutely going to start saying that. Thank you, Mrs. Julien.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 12, 2010 1:54 PM

If you take them out of the couple context for Adam and Eve then they might
fit metaphysically. It is a tropical paradise and they both certainly end
up with the knowledge of good and evil.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 1:58 PM

Smokey is the brother... He makes references to his mother and how Jacob took his body away (turning him into the smoke) in earlier episodes.

There's no reason for him to tell the characters this as they don't know his origin, if he wanted to gain influence with them he could tell them any old story.

Posted by: guttermouth at May 12, 2010 1:59 PM

Here's a thought, and it kind of goes against what I said at the top, but go with me:
Every time someone has had a vision, we have made the assumption (and kind of been confirmed, albeit by a liar) that it was Smokey. So how do we explain young Brother seeing Claudia? CAN it be explained by his being "special", or is there something else at play, here?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 2:01 PM

Two Questions:

First, why did Mother wait 43 years to kill the people from the ship? If she truly was the Protector of the Cave of Golden Light, then she should have gotten rid of them in the days right after the shipwreck.

Second, why does Smokey need the dead body of John Locke? So Brother was thrown into the Cave of Golden Light. At that point he was turned into Smokey. Or perhaps Smokey already existed, and Brother was absorbed into Smokey. But why the need for John Locke? Smokey could already take the form of MIB. He has also taken the form of Christian Shepard, and others.

This get right to heart of the comments today. The motivations and actions of the characters are still opaque at this point. It's almost all chaos. In some ways I don't really care about resolving mysteries. The reveal about Adam and Eve was nice. But what I really want is to be able to look back and see that all of the character's actions are rational in some unified whole.

BTW, I don't think that Jacob really leaves the Island. I think that he projects himself via the lighthouse.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at May 12, 2010 2:02 PM

Mrs. Julien, I was just thinking about making that sort of joke myself. Hee.

Posted by: elsie at May 12, 2010 2:04 PM

I'm mad at everybody, because they want their questions answered! Stop being stupid and asking for resolution. Just watch the show!

Now, here is a list of MY questions, which are NOT stupid...

Posted by: mocking dills at May 12, 2010 2:05 PM

Zac Efron could see dead Claudia but Jacob couldn't. Hurley could see Isabella but Richard couldn't.

I'm starting to think that Hurley is the new Jacob. Everyone thought it would be Jack. CJ Cregg thought it would be Zac Efron.

Oh to hell with it, I'm done making predictions. It's all a big clusterfuck but I'm happy to be in the middle.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 12, 2010 2:09 PM

i actually got the impression that Smokey/Brother is the island and that's why he couldn't leave while the protector/Jacob was around. that is also why he needs to leave with or eliminate all of the candidates and doesn't want any new candidates coming to the island. not sure how it all works out, especially since Jacob has left the island, but that is what has been implied. (and i think that Smokey/Brother are the same entity now--which is why he was mad at Jacob for stealing his body)

i'm also wondering whether Mother was also Smokey/protector combined. it would explain how she killed all the men and filled in the hole and it would explain how Brother killed her from behind without her knowing he was there--like Dogan said you have to kill Smokey. was it the same knife?

Posted by: pq at May 12, 2010 2:09 PM

Actually AnnaVonB, we did meet michael's mother. Remember the ep where he was tryign to off himself, and we find out Walt has been staying with grandma?

Kolby, I like where you are headed with that point about Desmond, but I almost wonder if it isn't intended to be a reveal in the Truth Dump finale.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 2:10 PM

Every time someone has had a vision, we have made the assumption (and kind of been confirmed, albeit by a liar) that it was Smokey.

We have? There's no way Smokey's been every appartition we've seen - he only confirmed that he also appeared as Christian. He can only take the form of people who've died and who were not buried on the island. So, he could not have been Isabella, Dave, Michael, Ben's Mom....the only people we know he's taken the form of have been Locke and Christian. The island is filled with lost souls...I guess it seems possible that it was only a matter of time before "special" folks could see and communicate with them.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 2:13 PM

You make an excellent point Kolby, but when were we TOLD that he could only "take the form of people who've died and who were not buried on the island"? Did I just miss that? I was under the impression we all assumed it as a group...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 12, 2010 2:17 PM


But what I really want is to be able to look back and see that all of the character's actions are rational in some unified whole.

ME. TOO. And if it turns out that this is just some kind of metaphor for 'the world is chaos and who knows why people do things' or whatever I will be PISSED. Because at every single turn we're led to believe people are doing things for a REASON--and if we don't get those reasons, what the hell was the point?

I'm setting myself up to be really pissed at the finale. I mean, I shouldn't. I know this show. So I'm trying to lower my expectations by quite a bit.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 2:17 PM

...like Dogan said you have to kill Smokey. was it the same knife?

It was the same knife, but Dogen didn't say you had to kill Smokey from behind (hee!). He said to kill him before he had the chance to speak, which didn't mean anything (at least not to me) since Dogen knew Sayid couldn't kill Smokey with a knife. He was just trying to get Syaid, who he saw as "claimed" to provoke Smokey into murdering him.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 2:18 PM

An observation:

The past several weeks, I've been catching the last few minutes of Dancing With The Stars right before Lost begins. This has got to be the most jarring transition in all of television. One show is glitter-encrusted piffle. The other is a seriously deep existential mindfuck.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at May 12, 2010 2:19 PM

You're right, Patty, I don't think it's ever actually been said on the show. I think it's a safe assumption, though, and it's something that everyone I've spoken to about this show, and everything I've read, seems to agree on.

Posted by: Kolby at May 12, 2010 2:20 PM

Exactly janet.

Kolbs, I think it may be time to put down the "this could be significant" hammer. The significance of so many things seems to be, let's see what kind of little goose chase we can send the audience on to distract them from the fact that this is all going to end with magic light and a simplistic story of good and evil, choice and free will.

Honestly, I think what's really bumming me out here is that all along, because we love the show so, we've been saying: Oh, it's ok if this doesn't make sense or we don't get this answer or that answer, etc. It will all work out in the end, and because the characters are so great and we've gotten this cool story that has kept our interest going over the seasons - eventually the ending will be a great wrap up and we HAVE FAITH that the story will be well told in the end. Each week, if it wasn't a great episode, we all say, oh don't worry, it's going to be better next week - episode such and such is going to give us the answers. Each week we've kept believing, and now we've gotten so close to the end that it's time to stop fooling ourselves. Now mind you, I still love the whole of Lost. The characters have been phenomenal, as have most of the actors. The journey has been wonderful for the most part. I have adored the time-jumping and the mysteries and the connectedness and the details. But I'm quickly coming to the realization that we have another Alias, another Battlestar Galactica - another show whose mythology has taken us down a road that can never have a truly satisfying conclusion.

AvB and I were discussing last night, how it may well be that Jack sinks the island, disabling its power and causing the sideways timeline to end up as reality. How Sun and Jin will end up together, with their little Ji Yeon, and how Sawyer and Juliet will meet for their cup of coffee, how Jack and Kate will get together, and Locke will finally decide to let Jack do the surgery, and we'll see him walk down the aisle to marry Helen. And everyone (just about) will live happily ever after. But will that really be satisfying? I don't think so. I'd rather see Jack condemned to be the candidate and continue on as the protector of the island. For everything to keep going on as it always has, just like MIB and Jacob discussed when first we met them. For the reality of the flashbacks of everyone's lives to have truly been reality, so these characters really are who we knew them to be and not changed into Nice Ben or whomever. For everyone to have sacrified their lives as did those who came before them - all in the name of this incomprehensible island.

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 2:21 PM

Mr. Julien is so smart:

Smokey is MIB in the same way that Gollum is still in some primitive
senses Smiegel. The ring (Smokey) and the bearer (MIB) interact and
effect each other, but the power is still and always will be in the ring.

Of course, isn't the ring the bearer of the essence of Sauron? And Smokey
bears the primeval or original evil as irretrievably separated from the
source which contains good and evil in one - just as it is in all of us?

I don't know any more. I'm going to go for lowest common denominator:
How cool was it to see shirtless Jack? Manly,avec chest hair shirtless Jack?
I've missed him so.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 2:27 PM

@Ojo Verde:
Smokey used John Locke's body because it was the easiest way to manipulate Ben / Richard into getting access to Jacob.

@Kolby:
Although it hasn't been completely confirmed, I'm pretty sure the Enemy was posing as Alex when Ben went to repent underneath the temple... hence the warning "Don't try to kill John Locke" (not that it would have had much of an effect anyway).

Posted by: JP at May 12, 2010 2:28 PM

@Patty O'Green

I have the same question about the forms Smokey takes. I thought he could
take the form of any dead person and chooses the ones he sees as most
promising for his desired results. Hasn't he been seen off island that way too?
Am I correct that Christian appeared to Jack and Claire appeared to Kate in LA?
If that is the case, what does it need to truly escape the island if it can already
gallivant around a la Jacob?


Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 2:34 PM

Cindy, I think it would be terribly unsatisfying, but I have the feeling that's the way it will end. Because...it seems to me, that if you can't kill MIB (and I don't see how anyone COULD at this point), the only way to keep him from EVER leaving the Island would be to...destroy the Island. And it's a monumental sacrifice that the protector would have to make, and Jack would do it. So...that's my theory from way back when. It feels right to me, and it would piss off a lot of people (I don't know if I'd hate it or not) but maybe that's the way it'll go.

Or like I've said before, I could be completely wrong and I wouldn't be angry either way. Who knows with this thing.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 2:36 PM

@figgy re: Because at every single turn we're led to believe people are
doing things for a REASON--and if we don't get those reasons,
what the hell was the point?

That's a pretty succinct summary of all religion and philosophy in the
course of human history.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 2:37 PM

Presumably, Smokey knows where the light is.

He was never supposed to be part of the original equation.

Smokey is a consequence of immature Jacob's actions.

Jacob and Smokey are subject to their Mother's rules.

Smokey is subject to Jacob's rules.

As long as there is no candidate, technically there are no new rules coming.

Destroying the light was always "Capturing the king" in the original game.

All the butt-hurt 'jibans need to also let go of the good v. evil theme.

'Eve' is a reference to Mother being the first on the island.

Adding 'Adam' could be a reference to the "Protectors original sin."

Fucking forget further "Adam and Eve" permutations.

"Special" indeed seems like it means a connection with the dead.

Since so many ghosts show up on the Island, this furthers the theory that the magic light is some kind of life-giver. I also think it's a tidy explanation for Ghosts versus Smokey apparitions barring Eko's brother. But it still works for the theory "Smokey takes the form that fucks with you the most."

The magic light, to me, was indicated to be the (life) Force. What that has to do with the Wheel and Tunisia--you got me?

Jacob's game does seem to be about making the people across the sea come together, a sort of group protectorate.

If Jack is to be the new Jacob, his game seems to be about 'saving the island.' So in saving the island twice, does the underwater scene we saw at the beginning of this season mean that the Wheel is again going to come into play releasing all the energy out, sinking the island, destroying Smokey, themselves, etc?

This is far out there, but is LA X Desmond effectively a retcontinuous version of Jacob freed and off the island forever?

So by inferring that by 'saving the island' the first time, Jack and co. expurgated one reality and somehow returned to their timeline: by saving the island in their original timeline mean that's how the game can end?

kolby and dills mentioned some the biggest questions I am still wondering about, and I liked what kballs said about knowing the destination before pissing about the route taken.

V. cool episode.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 12, 2010 2:39 PM

@cindy- that explains exactly how i feel. i've loved this show, but i'm frustrated. i never even watched the final season of alias because after watching sydney kicking ass while pregnant during the first couple episodes, i got annoyed.

i like the lord of the ring idea. the ring holds the key to good and evil, but if you put it on it makes you evil. L'il MIB was good and evil, and then when he put the ring on (got shoved into the light) he became pure evil. Or the evil consumed him and the result was a smoke-filled MIB. or the evil sucked out his soul.

as for desmond, what is the sacrifice that widmore said he would have to make? is it his life with penny? will he have to go into the light and emerge a fabulous plume of pink smoke that will fight smokey? why didn't flocke kill desmond himself and asked sayid to do it? can he not kill desmond the way MIB couldn't kill jacob?

ugh, so many questions.

and finally, where the fuck is vincent?

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 12, 2010 2:40 PM

@cindy

I think the odds are 50/50 on the outcome of the show. Thematically, it
would seem appropriate that new people take on the roles that have been
played out for millenia on the island. Mindfuckally, Jacob did say it only
ends once and this might be the time.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 2:40 PM

I tend toward the explanation that he became the Smoke Monster, if we're going to take what Mother says at face value. A fate worse than death means that he is not dead, so that implies to me that at least part of his conscious self is in there beyond simple memory access as the Locke impostor has exhibited.

Who killed Man In Black's fellow villagers and how?

I did think the flashback to the discovery of "Adam and Eve" was unnecessary, but - just so y'all know - not everyone who enjoys LOST obsesses over every detail and discusses it for hours on the internet. I guarantee there were viewers last night that found that helpful. So, let's just be self-satisfied that we're at the head of the LOST class and leave it at that.

There is quite a bit of discontent here. I agree with Kballs above about not passing judgment until the end. I might be as indignant as the rest of you at the end.

Amusingly, I watched this episode with a group of people last night, and one of them had never seen a single minute of LOST, which made for an amusing experiment. She did have preconceptions about a plane crash and a ship that might rescue them, so of course she had no idea what was going on. I think that she should just watch the entire show in exact chronological order going forward (with all the flashbacks un-interlaced), since she just started from the "beginning."

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 12, 2010 2:41 PM

Figgy, one of the problems I have with that scenario is: if the island has such an affect on the rest of the world, good and evil being released and all that, what happens if it is sunk/destroyed? Nothing? Everything just goes on, la la la? Though it might give people a nice, tidy television finish - it will really be wrong. And yes, it seems likely, but I will consider it a terrible cop out by the writers.

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 2:42 PM

will he have to go into the light and emerge a fabulous plume of pink smoke that will fight smokey?

Now THAT'S an ending I can get behind!!

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 2:46 PM

Well....I dunno. We saw the Island sunk in the alternate timeline and things seemed...alright with the world, didn't they? Our handful of characters were affected, yes, but some of them had lives that were actually HAPPIER than before. But maybe things will start to unravel and fall apart in the alternate timeline--which I had honestly been expecting to see, if we're going with the idea that the alternate timeline is bad and wasn't supposed to happen. But who knows!

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 3:03 PM

You know, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that what we saw in the AT is the direct result of the way each character acted on the Island. Like there was a big judgment at the end of the Island Timeline (IT) and their fate in the AT was decided based on their actions.

So, for example, we have Jack, who lost everything he had--his father, his sister, etc. In the AT he has a son with whom he can correct his father's mistakes. He also has a sister. He has a family and can be the father figure he tried to be on the Island.

Kate never really changed on the Island. I think that's why she was crossed out as a candidate. She raised Aaron in IT, so she gets to help Claire in AT.

Hurley is a good guy and his actions are rewarded in AT. Locke, who sacrificed EVERYTHING he had, now gets to have an actual life--a father whom he doesn't hate or ruined his life, a loving wifea, a job where he gets to influence people, and maybe the chance to walk again.

Ben gets his just punishment for being manipulative and evil; a broken life. Sayid, same thing. Sawyer gets to do good because he did good on the Island. Charlie gets a second chance, etc.

Etc, etc, etc. That was a long way of saying that it's all sort of fitting in a mirror-image sort of way. Maybe I'm missing some key changes but it all seems right.

I'm pretty sure about my theory. I think I'd even like it, because then the Island events wouldn't be completely useless.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 3:14 PM

But then I think of what Desmond is trying to do and wonder WHY and then I run out of half-assed theories.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 3:17 PM

A couple of things -

On people getting upset at the flashback to season 1 for Adam and Eve - the writers are trying to keep in mind that Joe Regular, who doesn't read message boards, and may be memory challenged or never even SAW a first season ep, is out there. You have to give them a break on that.

A lot of people seem hung up on timelines and causality, with questions like "yeah but where did MOTHER come from eh?". I think you need to let this go. It's my guess that to the writers the Island has always been there, as long as man. There have always been people struggling with the choices it offers, someone has always been the guardian. Mother was the latest in a long line of guardians, and she was looking to pass the torch.

I think Mother was the ultimate manipulator. How did she wipe out the village? I'm thinking because she was the representation of BOTH sides of the light - she was both Jacob and MIB rolled into one. She went Smokey and wiped out the village. She (obviously) knew she was goading Brother to kill her - she had an opportunity to kill him outright and didn't finish it. She's thankful he's releasing her when she dies, and she knows that Jacob will enact vengeance on MIB - and what better way than giving him a fate worse than death?

I think she's hoping to give the island a better guardian in Jacob by protecting him and giving him all the positives, but on the flip side damning MIB to become the negatives. She does this, to me, because she is both sides herself and finds it flawed and intolerable.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at May 12, 2010 3:20 PM

yeah, Desmond is completely baffling to me. I mean, the only half-assed I can come up with is that instead a of candidate choosing his fate, Desmond is the game-changer or game-ender or possibly the freed essence of the island/new Jacob himself. Who knows?> I'm still looking forward for what comes next.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 12, 2010 3:23 PM

Fuck happy.

Posted by: Cindy at May 12, 2010 3:25 PM

stopthemadness YES!!!!!!!

A co-worker suggested that the show will end with Lapidus resurfacing in the sub, with Vincent by his side and Waaaaaaaaaalt riding a killer whale beside them, to take everyone off the island.

Again, this makes as much sense as Magic Gay Leprechaun Cave and everything else.

Posted by: dammitjanet at May 12, 2010 3:26 PM

@figgy

That is one rockin' theory! And then the Desmond thing. Still! That is one
rockin' theory!.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 3:31 PM

Also, someone just shared this Lost humor link with me. Thought y'all might get a kick out of it if it hasn't already appeared here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DcnB_WLXWo&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 12, 2010 3:52 PM

frobme, that is what i was thinking. i really think that Mother was both Smokey and Protector and i think that Jacob and MIB are like two sides of the same coin.

Kolby, i didn't think that Smocke had to killed from behind, i just thought that he had to be taken by surprise--which isn't exactly what Dogan said, but is the same general idea.

Posted by: pq at May 12, 2010 3:53 PM

Lost is so GAY. Who have time to keep track of all this non-sense. People. Get a LIFE. Try communicating with you Wife, Girlfriend, Children for once.

Posted by: MIB at May 12, 2010 3:58 PM

@MIB

Does that stand for Miserable Internet Bastard?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 4:02 PM

Hee, Cindy. I will be happy because I was right ;)

Oh, you guys. Can you believe that there was ever time when the biggest mystery was "What the hell is in that hatch?!"

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 4:04 PM

I don't have a wife or a girlfriend or a children LOST IS ALL I HAVE IN LIFE :((

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 4:05 PM

MIB >> What if I'm discussing LOST with my girlfriend too? Truly we must both be doomed.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 12, 2010 4:05 PM

Late to the thread (as usual), but I just couldn't keep this in:

GOOD GOD, THAT EPISODE WAS CRAP. I can appreciate what the writers were trying to do, but did they have to be so ham-fisted about it? The stupid black-and-white imagery was just an insult to the viewers' intelligence. Stupid, beat-you-over-the-head black-and-white imagery is why I hate Heart of Darkness. A book I had to read three times for different classes in college.

This ep will forever be known to me as the "Heart of Darkness ep."

The last few eps have been quite a disappointment. But the writers of "Lost" have given me 4.5 good seasons of television, so the least I can do is stick around for three more hours.

BUT IT HAD BETTER BE WORTH MY WHILE!!! DO YOU HEAR ME, CUSE?? LINDELOF?? SMOKEY???

Posted by: Jelinas at May 12, 2010 4:09 PM

No, it stands for Man In Black. Now shut up and take off your clothes, MIB.

Also, I thought it was that he (Flocke) had to be killed before he spoke or before he said a word or something along those lines. Something MADE OUT TO BE IMPORTANT which is probably going to turn out to be NOT important. LIKE ADAM AND EVE.

What? No, I'm not bitter in the slightest about that, why do you ask? (And before y'all get on my case AGAIN, let me just say that I AM AWARE that it's a dumb thing to be mad about, and I'll be over it by tomorrow, but today, I'm wallowing in my anger. LEAVE ME BE.)

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 12, 2010 4:09 PM

Here's an interesting theory making the rounds, I didn't author it, just posting it as found:

Naming MIB. I theorized in another thread that the reason MIB was not given a name is because the writers don't want to spoil what I think is the big surprise: that John Locke will be resurrected on the Island and take his rightful place as Island protector. I believe that MIB's name is John. I believe that, like MIB, John Locke is "destined" to be the protector...and just like MIB, he was sabotaged and did not fulfill his destiny. The Island will correct this through Desmond. Desmond's role will be to get smokey back down his hole, to "entrap" him again (Desmond is the only one that can withstand the electormagnetism) thereby allowing Locke to guard the golden hole/well. MIB and Locke are the same (which is why Smokey was so creeped out by Desmond saying "You're John Locke" when Smokey asked him "Do you know who I am?"). And as for Jacob...he was supposed to be the right hand man of MIB. I think that will be Jack's role when Locke becomes protector.

Posted by: Dr Remulak at May 12, 2010 4:15 PM

if john locke is resurrected than i will be setting myself on fire because even though it is a theory that i started throwing around on here weeks ago, i think it's stupid and i hate it.

i hate everything.

i just want to know where vincent is.

if anyone needs me, i'll be hanging out with dammitjanet making SAVE VINCENT ribbons, drinking, and setting things on fire.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 12, 2010 4:34 PM

AVB, i have something for you.

::hands over spare flamethrower::

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 12, 2010 4:35 PM

DrRemulak...could be, but I'm pretty sure they're not naming him just to fuck with us, because they know that by now we all just call him MIB or Smokey or whatever.

Posted by: figgy at May 12, 2010 5:18 PM

I get it! Jack thought it was polyester because Mother was weaving future fabric! The light is a disco ball of doom, and smokey is what happens when you re use bong water!

Kidding aside, I was disappointed by this episode, but I do not care. I have only 1 question that makes or breaks how I feel about the finale ep. I don't even need a good answer, just an answer.

Claires psychic... he said she needed to raise the baby (she didn't) AND 2 seasons later we find out he was a fake (via an echo flashback) but he gave claire her money back AND paid for her ticket.

This ep confirmed for me that this was not forgotten. I cling to that.

Posted by: Theresa at May 12, 2010 5:19 PM

Like everyone else, I really wish the Jacob/MIB backstory had been aired earlier. It is far too late in the game for episodes like this - I'm now convinced that the finale is going to be nothing but a running text scroll of exposition and answers. I'm preparing myself for disappointment.

Posted by: Lauren at May 12, 2010 6:15 PM

@ Lauren

If a flying saucer lands in the opening sequence of the final episode and the aliens spend the next 90 minutes answering questions and providing explanations to the bewildered survivors in a panel discussion format... well, at least we would have answers, dammit!

I mean, as long as they were compelling and gave a reasonable context for everything we have seen up to this point I would be more than satisfied by that ending.

Posted by: Yossarian at May 12, 2010 6:37 PM

My head hurts.

Posted by: Dr Remulak at May 12, 2010 6:59 PM

You doofs spend too much time trying to figure out what's going to happen instead of reviewing what has happened. It's IMPOSSIBLE to have seen Jacob as anything but a dimwit if you don't buy into all the white=good images.
Jacob and his Brother are the embodyment of that fable where the sun and the wind have a bet to see who can get the guy to take his coat off. Y'know that one? What's the point you may ask, just to see who can do it. That, and making a tv show OBV.

Posted by: ur at May 12, 2010 7:03 PM

Yup.

Posted by: NY not NYC at May 12, 2010 7:28 PM

I really think Ji Yeon might be The Candidate.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 12, 2010 7:44 PM

They haven't told us MIB's name yet because he's actually...Santa Claus. He's obsessed with doling out punishment for the naughty and nice, and his smoke form is a convenient means for zipping up and down millions of chimneys on December 25th, the only day of the year when he is allowed to see the rest of the world.

Or, yeah, Ji Yeon might be The Candidate.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 12, 2010 9:19 PM

Mark me down with the disappointed fans. Especially after reading this interview with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse regarding this episode. Yeah OK, I get it, you're not going to answer all of the questions. But goddamnit you have to answer some of them. I am quickly losing hope that I will be satisfied. Specifically when Lindelof said this: "Okay, that's cool, you wanted those answers and we decided not to provide them to you. It's not because we're being cutesie, it's because that that didn't fit with our vision of the show."

No, I don't think so Damon. YOU established the mysteries. If your vision of the show is not to answer them, then don't bring them up in the first place.

This is going to end badly.

Posted by: Scully at May 12, 2010 10:26 PM

I dunno. I've been good at rolling with whatever this show does. If the final scene turns out to be the smoke monster talking to Jack, and Jack says, "By the way buddy, what's your name?" and the monster says, "Oh yeah. I'm Steve!" and Jack goes LOLZERZ!! and then Smoke Monster Steve eats him and it goes pow! L O S T, I'd still probably say, "Eh, it was pretty good."

Posted by: Johnny C. Georgie at May 12, 2010 11:18 PM

I've got bad news for all of you about answers for both LOST and appropriately the nature of the entire universe: it's turtles all the way down.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 12, 2010 11:35 PM

I work nights so I sleep all day. I miss the greatest part of this discussion every week and then feel its usually too late to add in anything nobody else has said. Most people probably won't catch this post cuz its so late. I am only upset because everyone else seems so disappointed. I guess I am just a lot more forgiving than some others on the site. I like the show too much to get caught up in what turned out not to be important, even if it seemed important in the past. I've been... bliiiiiiiiiinded by the light!!

Posted by: dills at May 13, 2010 12:13 AM

I'd think it would be polar bears, with this show.

Posted by: figgy at May 13, 2010 12:24 AM

figgy >> Touche! Wish I had come up with that instead. That's why you're the arbiter of the eloquence around here. :- )

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 13, 2010 12:34 AM

I was thinking about this some more... for our special purpose (she hates these cans!) let's say the Mother is the only Protector in the Island's cycle that we need to be concerned with. Anything farther back in time is too ancient to be factored. Basically, the Why of the Island may never get answered, and that is okay with me.

This episode would have been super if America did Christmas specials, and it would have given all of us time to process before airing LA X. I also think that were it done then, they could have saved us the trouble of taking the "magic light" as the classical element called Aether, a substance in all of mankind, and postulated as electromagnetic before Einstein came along. It makes some sense that even the Protector wouldn't know the exact nature of "the warmest, brightest light." It's not like there are dinosaurs in the Bible.

Moving along, the triumvirate were all very clean and happy until the presence of the people alerted Smokie there was something he was missing. This show has used lies and lying liars extremely well to build mysteries and set up very cool twists--I don't see that stopping now. Mother lies to the boys because she needs one of them to release her from her role as Protector. She loved the boys, and so she waited as long as she could, but it's no picnic. I think it's also significant that Jacob never witnessed his Mother thanking Smokey for the release. Even if she could leave the island, it seems that it was her cage also. Jacob definitely could leave (I really want to know why and how, too!) but he was inextricably forced to stay and protect it. He was a 12 year old snot, and a sheltered 40something when he took the mantle, but he is quite sophisticated and plenty bored by the time Smokey and Linus show up on his doorstep. For all we know, he was taking the game handed down to him completely seriously, and the bottle was ready to be used in case Alpert had finally brought a willing and worthy candidate to the shadow of the statue. The temple, the lighthouse, the statue, the cliff cave, the Others are all products of Jacob's ingenuity. They are the result of playing his game. Jacob is kinda badass for the fleeting moments we have him for "the Incident."

(I think the primary reason that Smokie isn't given a name because the people behind the show dig that we call him Smokie, giving way to the pop culture phenomena.)

Most notable dialogue:

"Whatever you've been told, you will never be able to leave this island." That's not true. I can prove it.

"It was always supposed to be you. Some day you'll see it. Until then, you don't have a choice."

and an oldie but a goodie, "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."

I think that the thing Smokie was trying to prove Jacob wrong about was not that he could get off the island or that the people Jacob brought there would not end in bloodshed. I think Smokie is trying to prove that he can win the game, even though, presumably, there is no winner and the game only ends when a replacement is found. I don't think that 'ending only once' meant the island could cease to exist, at least from Jacob's perspective.

I liked figs theory about pulling Locke's body back into the light, but why would it harm Smokie if it was born from that light? Also presumably, isn't Smokie the only one who knows where the light is? We can't also be talking about the Swan, can we?

One last thing: Does the touch of Jacob mean that you can't die on the island as long as he was alive? Is that why Sayid 'lived' and the water turned black? Is that why Ilana or Kate or any of them could die, but Smokie has learned the rules from taking too many liberties in trying to beat Jacob in the past? Is Smokie just positioning for release himself? Is he going to lead either Jack or Sawyer to the light in order to destroy it? Is he going to be able to convince them nothing will happen?

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 13, 2010 2:53 AM

The main excitement for me seeing this episode was Allison Janney. I didn't know she was going to be in it! I love it when I don't know.

As for answers...I've been thinking about it today, and Earth Mother Janney is right, questions lead to more questions. My favourite moments of Lost have always been when it's about the characters, about their lives, struggling with the island, their losses, how they relate to each other. I have enjoyed their mysteries and learning their back stories much more than I have learning things about the island. At this point I think I'd have been ok with them just saying 'Look, it's a magical island, weird shit happens, deal with it,' than trying to explain to me the why of it all. It takes away from the people I'm interested in, and makes me feel for them less.

And I mostly liked the Adam and Eve thing, because at least we know now and people can stop talking about it. And I like the references to black and white and how that all fits together. I'm happy at the moment to see how it all plays out. And I'm looking forward to watching the whole thing over and seeing all the stuff I've forgotten about or missed on first viewing.

Posted by: Carrie (Teabelly) at May 13, 2010 5:18 AM

Scully: Thanks for posting that link. I agree with Lindelof and Cuse. There was no way they were answering everything. But LOST has always been about the characters and the choices they make. We see now this story began hundreds and hundreds of years before with the same events repeating in a cycle.

LOST will end with a satisfying conclusion that will not answer everything. If it did, there would be no point in revisiting it. Nothing that wraps up everything tightly is as interesting as one that is open to interpretation. As long as the major questions are answered (and there are very few left now)I'm fine with a conclusion to the character focussed narrative they are telling.

In case you missed Scully's link:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

Posted by: TylerDFC at May 13, 2010 8:10 AM

When Lindelof and Cuse talk about the character fans v. mystery fans I definitely identify myself with the mystery fans Tyler, so I know that I’m in the minority. However I do not expect to get answers to all my questions (Hurley’s bird!), that would be silly. But I do hope they answer some of them.

Now that I’ve had time to absorb the episode, I think my disappointment stems from LOST looking a bit stupid. I thought the show was more pseudoscience (Burke, Boone, Dawson, Rousseau, Hume, Hawking, Locke, etc) but it appears (thus far) that it’s about a white magic light. Gah. I was expecting more out of Lindelof and Cuse (and JJ) than a magic Disney force.

Posted by: Scully at May 13, 2010 8:48 AM

At this point I think I'd have been ok with them just saying 'Look, it's a magical island, weird shit happens, deal with it,' than trying to explain to me the why of it all.

I'd have been totally okay with that too. If they hadn't made such a big effing deal about all the weird stuff that happens from the beginning.

See, I was thinking about this last night. I was thinking about the numbers thing. You (that's the Royal You, not a specific you) remember the numbers, right? Those mysterious numbers that won Hurley the lottery, that he got from crazy Leonard, that were stamped on the inside of the hatch, that were used to reset the timer and stem the flow of electromagnetic energy that would destroy the world, that showed up everywhere from ticket numbers to flight numbers to numbers stenciled on garbage cans (I might be making that last one up to make a point)? The numbers were made into a big deal by the show, by Lindelof and Cuse and co., and the audience clamored for an answer to the mystery of the numbers. Why are they everywhere? It can't just be coincidence, can it? It's not like it's a digit or two, it's a specific sequence of six numbers. So, we got an episode detailing Hurley's search for the meaning of the numbers, and it turns out, they're pretty much meaningless. They're not significant.

I think this sums up the entire show pretty well, which is to say that if all the mysteries are meaningless, then what's the point? Why focus SO HARD on those things, the things that are part of the mystery, if what you want to focus on is the character stories? The problem is, you can't create the mystery aspects and then just say, "Well, it's not about the mystery, it's about the characters." Because it IS about the mystery, too. It has been since the first episode. It's kept me on the edge of my seat for nearly 6 seasons. All these little coincidences are introduced, things that seem too linked to possibly be coincidence, and then they just... disappear, chalked off to coincidence. But then they come back again, "Well, was it REALLY coincidence?" I think my being okay with the alternate timeline stuff stems from this: if none of the rest of it, the numbers, the bird, the myriad other details that have made up half the show, if it's really going to be just about the characters in the end, then why shouldn't it end that way? Why shouldn't it wipe out all of the backstories and all those little details that we've learned over the years? Because if they don't matter anyway, then why shouldn't the characters go on to have better lives, and happy endings all wrapped up in a neat little bow made of puppies and rainbows?

You can't have it both ways, is all I'm saying. You can't make it 50/50 character/mystery and then turn around and say, no, it was really 80/20 all along. Because no it wasn't. I was there. I watched it being 50/50. I mean, you *can*, but you HAVE to expect that a good chunk of your audience is not going to be satisfied by that. I really don't think I'm wrong for being a bit disappointed.

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 13, 2010 10:07 AM

"The problem is, you can't create the mystery aspects and then just say, "Well, it's not about the mystery, it's about the characters." Because it IS about the mystery, too. It has been since the first episode. It's kept me on the edge of my seat for nearly 6 seasons."

Thank you AvB! You say it much better than I. You should copy this whole response into Dustin's new LOST post.

Posted by: Scully at May 13, 2010 10:14 AM

Actually, I do agree with a lot of what you're saying there. I liked the earlier seasons (and probably season 1 the most) because it was the characters first, mysteries second. But they did indeed move away from that and have focused on the island itself more and more. So you're right, they probably should have made a choice as to which angle they were going for, and stuck with it, rather than doing both a bit half-heartedly.

But I'm still pretty ok with not having answers. This might stem from the fact that I haven't really watched the other seasons again since they aired, maybe once when I got them on DVD, but a lot of it I have forgotten. So it could be that when I settle down to watch it all from the beginning when it's done, I'll be going 'WTF! They never explained that!'

Posted by: Carrie (Teabelly) at May 13, 2010 10:17 AM

Yeah, I'm definitely one who enjoys ambiguous endings, too. I'm a little perplexed by my own response to some stuff, if I'm being honest. But perhaps it is because I just re-watched all 5 prior seasons in preparation for the end... Maybe I shouldn't have done that!

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 13, 2010 10:29 AM

Copied and pasted Scully! Thanks. Heh. That posted while I was writing this diatribe. I suppose I should refresh more often... (Also, Carrie, i hope you don't mind I posted the section of your comment too! I credited you and everything.:) )

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 13, 2010 10:37 AM

Although really if it doesn't hold up when viewing the whole thing, they got something very wrong.

Am still holding out hope for the last few eps though!

Posted by: Carrie (Teabelly) at May 13, 2010 10:38 AM

I don't mind!

I never discuss Lost anywhere else, I've totally been missing out.

Posted by: Carrie (Teabelly) at May 13, 2010 10:39 AM

”Although really if it doesn't hold up when viewing the whole thing, they got something very wrong.”

Exactly Carrie! I’ve re-watched the older seasons many, many times. Maybe that’s why I’m a stickler for the answers, but honestly, if your shit doesn’t make sense at the end, then you did a piss poor job. JJ’s Alias was dying under its own weight, but it had closure. That story took an atrocious dive, but it was still wrapped up. If it can be done with Rambaldi, a prophecy and a giant red floating ball filled with contaminated zombie water, it can be done with this show goddamn it!

Posted by: Scully at May 13, 2010 10:48 AM

Umm, contaminated zombie water?? Huh. So I should pretty much stop at season 2, then? :)

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 13, 2010 12:06 PM

AvB yikes! That's a bit of a spoiler there for ya. Sorry about that. And to answer your question: yes. Season 2 is where all the awful shenanigans start. Mind you, that show had me hooked no matter what and I watched it to the end. But it was spectacularly awful. Yet there was closure. So there's that.

Posted by: Scully at May 13, 2010 12:25 PM

Hee! I never complain about spoilers, especially on something that's years old.

Well, except for that one time when pseudo-Mr. vB figured out The Sixth Sense from the commercials and spoiled it without even having seen it. Killed me. I'm still a little bitter about it. But other than that, I don't worry so much about spoilers.

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 13, 2010 12:39 PM

Seems like ya’ll are missing tha main point of this episode: When island mother tells mother-in-red to stop asking stuff which only will lead to asking more stuff, so that’s the message from the writers to all ya peps.

Nway, flashbacks from past episodes do really sux, they must keep flashbacks only for never seen before stuff.

Hopefully, they will answer why Locke’s corpse must wear Christian’s shoes to return to the island, and for the rest, they could just make a 7th or more seasons, some sequel movies, the XXX version, or a cartoon series, yeah.

At the end, they will get to Julie’s blowing all to normal life.

Posted by: chandaxi at May 13, 2010 1:22 PM

From the first time MIB stepped onto the beach with Jacob I thought he totally looked like Billy Joel -- and I've referred to him that way ever since. So how funny was it when the episode portrayed Billy Joel's defiance against parental authority ("My Life") and his determination to leave the island ("Movin' Out"), not to mention his doubts about Mom's explanation for why they had to protect the Keebler Elves' Hideout ("Keeping the Faith" or maybe "Only the Good Die Young")?

Hee hee! My giggling during the episode annoyed Mrs. Gemuse. Billy Joel. Not sure how "It's Still Rock and Roll to Me" fits in, but I'm certain it does.

I just hope the golden Keebler light stuff isn't going the way of midi-chloridians, 'cause that's when I reach for my revolver...

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Posted by: lily at May 13, 2010 10:02 PM

Great, I'm in.

Posted by: Rg at May 14, 2010 6:13 PM

darth!

connect 4 Mil...

that was good!

Posted by: kikz at May 15, 2010 12:01 PM

There is only one LOST website I read. The owner Mike has listed 6 questions he'd like answered and since those answers are important to me, I've copied his questions here.

1. Is the island sentient or machine-like? Does it hide? Does it recruit protectors?

2. What is the island (if not a living entity)? If it's really a cork of some sort, then "cork" needs to be further defined.

3. What is the glowing stuff? Is it negatively-charged exotic matter from a meteor or eruption? Is it God-stuff, as Mother described? Is a little of both?

4. What's the deal with the bearings? In other words, how and why is the island so inaccessible?

5. What are the consequences of the escape of the darkness? If the darkness = Smokey, then elaboration is needed on why his escape would presumably be so existentially or metaphysically devastating.

6. Why did Damon remark in May 2007 that, "Somewhere just outside the Crab Nebula is where it will all end, geographically." Fully appreciating that it could be a random and meaningless joke, the fact that it is amazingly compatible with the cover of Foot's book has always struck me as remarkable.

His website can be found here. I'd be a happy fan if these were addressed tonight.

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