Pajiba

Hm, I wouldn't have pegged you as religious, as I typically agree with you on everything. [wink] I'll probably (politely) skip future Spiritainment segments. Can you ensure that future religious postings are marked as such?



Joe

(A loyal Pajiba fan)

Wow, Joe, two-thirds of the holy trinity were mentioned in the title of the post--how much warning do you need? Will your eyes melt if you don't hit the back button fast enough? It's just words, not holy water...

Dan, I have been reading Slowly Going Bald for a while and am looking forward to your new Blog. Sounds great!

I'm with you 100% Down with Kinkade and Lucado!

Brian
http://fousty.blogspot.com/

...starring Jared Padalecki (strikes two and three)

OH COME ON! Jared Padalecki does NOT get two strikes!! Although I'd be lying if I said this revelation didn't fill me with sadness and disenchantment.

Bravo, Dan. I love this column, and I hope it does become regular.

Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality? Maybe your columns will help us find out...

...or, more likely, just help us laugh/sneer at people who exploit faith for profit. Which is fine, for the (predominantly) rational Pajibans around here. Looking forward to more.

Amen and so say we all! Nice column, Daniel. As someone with his own religious issues to work out (I was raised Catholic and in college I became an Evangelical Christian, only to start questioning all of that a few years later and settle for very conflicted agnosticism, for lack of a better label) I'm glad to read the thoughts of a fellow traveler. That and it's nice to laugh at the crap that passes for "faith" in the market driven entertainment industry. Now if only I could trademark some sort of made up term meaning "saccharine pablum..."

"Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality?"

Probably because faith and rationality tend to be mutually exclusive.

Let's see if this works -- haven't had much luck posting lately. I for one will be tuning in to this column... uh... religiously. Heh. I'm excited to hear from someone with a balanced perspective, I could think of several people that would have thought that one or the other of your stereotypes up there were spot on. Looking forward to some humor and artistic integrity, calling the shit made by some of us what it is, without having to write off the rest. Kudos!

Off topic, but to the great Pajiba leadership, I'm renewing my call (in case you're no longer checking on the book thread) to have a separate thread today to mark the death of Kurt Vonnegut. I'm sure there are hundreds of loyal Pajibans who would like to sign a book of condolences Pajiba-style.

Can't wait to see what you come up with, Daniel! There are a few other liberal Christians floating around in the world...even here at Pajiba.

Abbey Road, I haven't been able to post for awhile either. I thought it was just me, and it was quite upsetting. I thought Daniel, et. al., had rejected me...and after all we've been through together!

What I don't understand is, who made the rule that all Christian films have to be of the feel-good variety? Does anyone, even Christians really want to see another "boy and his dog" or "kid with cancer quotes scripture"?

The Bible has got more sex, drugs and rock 'n roll than Grindhouse. Just because it's not spelled out in R-rated letters (though sometimes it is) doesn't mean it's not there.
Genocide, evisceration, flesh-eating diseases, natural disasters, incest, mutant reptiles, demonic rebellions, betrayals, evil hotties, battles that make the guys from 300 looks like pussies, fire from the sky... and that's all before you hit the New Testament.

God may be a lot of things, but he is definitely not boring.

So why do Christian films insist on leeching all the wild, challenging, exciting aspects of God's nature, and of Faith, out of the modern "faith-based" film? It's a shame. What are we (because I am a Christian) so scared of? That if people see God doing something other than being brutalized (I mean you, Mel) or petting kittens, than their heads with explode? I want to see films that celebrate all aspects of God -- I want to see the still, small moments of faith right alongside all the blood and madness and glory.

I hope you are an equal-opportunity disher of scathe, meaning in the future when Tom, John and Kirstey get together to make a Dyanetic blockbuster and sequel, you'll be sure cover that under Jesus, Inc. too.

I offer up "An Audience of One" for your next review. Only, you wouldn't be reviewing a movie for the faith-based market, but a movie about the making of a movie for the faith-based market. Which didn't get made.

Here, here, Jenn. It's not Christian belief but sheer love of cinema that makes me want to see the same. There is so much great untapped material there (as some of us were discussing in another thread).

Speaking of "wild and challenging" aspects of faith-on-film:

http://www.devilducky.com/media/60387/

(NSFW--F-word).

"The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music."

Okay, a little more on topic this time, the quote above is from Vonnegut on what he wanted for his obituary. Thought it would fit in this thread.

"There are a lot of great movies about God out there, but they usually wind up getting made outside the system."

AMEN!--Or is that too corny?

You mention 'The Apostle.' Without having to think hard at all, I can add 'Dogma' (flawed, certainly; but God, that dialogue!) and 'The Rapture' (starring Mimi Rogers--Netflix it now).

Also, 'End of the Spear.' This is one of those movies that was marketed to (and screened in) churches. My husband Netflixed it in ignorance, and to my COMPLETE astonishment, it was a damn decent movie about real people of real faith. I expected to loathe it, and I liked it. Check it out.

You wanna know the real problem Hollywood has with faith-based stories? Faith is personal for all of us. Any story dealing with characters' faith is going to be "wrong" from the POV of exactly the types of relig-o's most likely to raise a public stink. I don't wonder that the Hollywood "system" ignores this aspect of the human experience--they know they can't win.

I want to see the still, small moments of faith right alongside all the blood and madness and glory.

Careful what you wish for, Jenn... otherwise we'll end up with more Passion of the Christs.

And no one wants that.

I grew up in Nashville, aka the Protestant Mecca, and went to a Church of Christ school.

I met Max Lucado. I didn't like him.

I met a bunch o' people who work at Thomas Nelson. Didn't like ANY of them.

These movies will probably play well there, alas.

But there IS hope. The wonderful "Saved!", which debuted at the Nashville Film Festival, won the festival prize, and the local crowd I saw it with ate it up... I guess the material was close to home for a lot of us. A WHOLE lot of us.

(and note that almost all the main characters in Saved!, even the ones we like, *are* Christians)

Oh, I forgot: Jared Padalecki is mighty cyoot. I am dismayed by this casting news mainly because I fear it will put a nasty dent in his career progression, which will mean I may not get to ogle his cyootness as much as I would have if he'd been cast in a decent movie instead of (gah) 'The Christmas Cottage,' which I will never see under any circumstances.

Good stuff Dan. I hope to see more of the same on future posts.

"Christastic"...love it.

Jenn,

You put your finger right on it--"fear". Of the people I know, more follow God out of fear than faith. They are terrified of any new experience; that's why they like films that give them the same ol' same ol'. It's why sports movies that come from a Christian perspective have to end with the team or athlete winning the big game--the idea that Jesus might love "losers" make them shit the bed.

Landon,

See, here's where people differ. I thought Saved was basically taking shots at low-hanging fruit. It seemed to me to be as stereotyped in its own way as, say, Facing the Giants was in another. Oh well, that's what makes cinema great, ain't it?

The Easter Miracle When Daddy Came Home: A Soldier's Story

I can't wait for that. Great inaugural column.

So if it were Satanic, Pagan, Hindu, Dualist or whatever, would "god" be treated is the same respect? Why are just Christian forms of entertainment being bashed/reviewed/studied? I've seen movies based on the previosly mentioned religions that were just as cheap and bland and made to hit a couple of people in the wallet. Why don't we cover them too? In all fairness, America is a melting pot of religions. To assume that most Americans are Christians, or even care about Christianity is absurd. I'm sure there are people who don't want to see their own religion "marketed" to them.
I do have a faith and, despite hating to see a faith giftwrapped and sold to me, I think that we are entitled to a fair representation of our god or gods in the media, books, music and the like. After all, most forms of entertainment exploit our emotions and intellect anyways. Why not faith?
All I ask is that we get our money's worth, one way or another.

For the record, most people's, or at least my, faith is actually based on rationality and reason.
I wouldn't get up in the morning, grab my keys, and head for the car if I didn't have faith that it would (or was supposed to) start up.

I wouldn't get up in the morning, grab my keys, and head for the car if I didn't have faith that it would (or was supposed to) start up.

Wow, way to conflate two entirely different definitions of the word faith. Let me help you here:

1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof

Your car starting up in the morning is based on evidence and experience. It has started up for your every morning prior to this. If it hadn't, you wouldn't have faith(1) that it would.

Your religious faith(2), on the other hand, is the notion that you believe in it regardless of the fact that you have no proof.

Landon,

I had a friend who worked at T. Nelson right after college. He said nothing sapped his faith more than working there, walking through the halls on a Monday, listening to people crow about moving "x" units of a book that they all knew was theological crap or a CD that had the musical depth of a mud puddle really disillusioned him.

I guess Jesus still don't get along so well w/ the moneychangers.

'Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality?'

"Probably because faith and rationality tend to be mutually exclusive."

Hakobus, I think the fact that this column and ensuing discussion exist negates your statement.

Joe,
I see what you're saying. I should have been more clear. I was actually commenting on something that was said before:

'Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality?'

"Probably because faith and rationality tend to be mutually exclusive."

Now, back to what I meant.
The first time I started a car, I knew what was supposed to happen, regardless of what followed or what came before. A car is supposed to start, as is faith supposed to produce some kind of result. In another way, I believe I have a brain though I've never seen it, nor have I seen one in another living (dead?) creature. Yet books, shows, people and anything else that can, does, in fact, tell me that I do. I base my faith on reason. At least reason based on evidence. I see the effects that the brain has on the body, the world, and other people. When I was presented with a clear understanding of God and what that means, I placed my faith in it based on no prior experience, but rather on good words and works of people and books and etc. In other words, though I've had no prior experience with God or cars or any of that, I still was able to entrust my "keys" to start something in motion based on what others have told me. Sounds kinda cliched, but just because a thing is passed down doesn't mean it's false. All in all, I think you're right in showing the difference between what I should have said and did say. But what I meant was what I've just said.
Peace brotha.

5-15-9: Unfortunately, Christianity is the most prominent of the many religions in America. Before you object, remember the court battles for the Ten Commandments to be displayed, the 'wars' on Christmas, the constant attention being placed on gay marriage, stem cell research, and more, all with an admittedly Christian bent. Even if it isn't the largest, Christianity is the most wide-spread in the media and pop culture in America.

I am sure that any crappy movie that was made based on the religions you mentioned would most certainly be welcome in Pajiba's crosshairs. But until a Satanist movie or a Buddhist movie gets the kind of attention and media exposure that Passion of the Christ and its ilk did, they won't be getting to it any time soon.

True that, Vermillion. I actually was asking "why" and you answered.
You rawk.

To assume that most Americans are Christians, or even care about Christianity is absurd.

Actually, a little under 80% of Americans identify themselves as Christians. As for how many of those care about it, I'm not sure.

I did not know that, John. You also rock for doing your research.
I think what I was getting at, though, is, like the stem-cell arguments, gay bashing, "god-is-on-our-side-so-we-win" mentality, most people will say they are Chrisian to fit in. At least, that's what I've seen. How many of them will actually do unto others as they would be done by, well...too few to mention as a serious number. I'm no exception as I am not perfect at all. I've done some incredibly backwards things that don't hold water to what I say I believe. Like all the posts I've done without thinking them through clearly.
But, again, I was just drawing attention to a fact that, what we're supposed to look for in a "Christian" we don't see too often. Or, heck, maybe you do and I don't.
Just a personal observation on my part. You seem to have taken the broader view and hats off to you for it.

I'm with Vermillion on this one, 5-15-9. Christianity is certainly the religion almost exclusively exploited by the media, and therefore it only makes sense that those films should be the first to come under scrutiny. Until Hollywood starts exploiting Hinduism and Satanism (because they know it will sell to the highest demographic) their focus will remain on Christianity, and thus so must ours. When the time comes, I will be ranting and raving at close-minded Satanists with the same passion as I do close-minded Christians.

As to you Daniel, thank you for this column. I may be agnostic, but I certainly respect the Christian faith, and am continually angered by people who seek to manipulate their fellow Christians for a profit. I look forward to everything you have to say, and the intelligent conversation between Pajibans that follows.

It's good to see a person defending people just because they're people, Kate K. In that respect, you may be more "Christian" than other Christians.
I do know people who are of different faiths than myself. We get along well, and I have wanted, in all fairness, for them to have the same opportunity to see what they believe in the most truthful and insightful way, regardless of what others say or think. If I was free to choose to believe in Christ then they too must be free, even from my point of view. And I give them that freedom in our circle of friends.I guess I just wanted it for them in a larger way than I can give. I, again, was speaking from personal experience and not from a global view. A fault I must work on to better myself and people around me.
Thanks for your reply, yo.

What is this?! Thoughtful, articulate posts? People being tolerant of one another's views--and about one of the most divisive, emotional topics in the human experience?

Oh, the civility.

Where's the nasty? Where's the scathing bitchy, for Gawd's sake? Come on, people!

http://www.fstdt.com/funnyimages/image.asp?id=396

apocalipstick -

If nothing else, I love the name. :)

On rewatching "Saved!" several times I certainly felt it could have been more nuanced, more polished, but there's no denying the way it played to a crowd out of which probably half, at least, went to a Christian school for a few years (you would not BELIEVE how many Christian schools there are in the 'ville). Plus, I think the shots weren't as cheap as some of the less subtle aspects of the movie make it appear - the gay boyfriend, the pregnant female lead, and even the cynical Culkin character all appear, at the end of the film, to still be Christians. Pastor Skip isn't a bad guy in the movie; the last scene he appears in shows that his heart is in the right place but he's *genuinely* conflicted about what's happened.

I enjoyed "Saved!" because there really WEREN'T any "religious bad guys" in it, EVEN the ostensible nemesis. Hilary Faye didn't come across to me as a character who was mean because she's a Christian so much as a character who was mean because she's a teenage girl, and who used her religious beliefs as a handy way of justifying it - her scene after running into Jesus (heh) underscores that.

I'm not saying you're "wrong" or anything like that, I just wanted to point out the deep, deep resonances that movie had with me, my fellow Christian school survivors, and - apparently - a crowd of those with similar experiences. In fact, I think the average hardcore anti religion types would be pretty disappointed in "Saved!" - all the characters come through with their faiths intact.

Don't let them touch To Kill A Mockingbird, I love that film.

Although Jeremy didn't like it, I thought "Amazing Grace" was one of the better faith-based movies I've seen in a long time. It didn't get weighed down in preaching Christianity, and instead showed how someone's spiritual beliefs can drive real-world action and change. Few movies have the guts to show how messy and frustrating and difficult it can be to stand up for what's right...or how long and hard a road it might be.

I suspect the "Based on a true life painting!" Thomas Kinkade movie will bypass all this complexity and opt for some easy spoon-fed cliches. Christastic...and craptastic!

Landon,

I have strong, strong ties to NashVegas. In fact (in keeping with the theme of the thread), it's where the denomination of which I'm a part is headquartered. I've got lots of friends and family there (cousin at Vanderbilt Med) and visit quite often. Frankly, I love the town. It's got a little of everything and a lot of some really good things. I still say that Nashville is the best music town in America, especially the underground and side-gig scenes.

I'm well aware of the prevalence of "Christian education"; three of my siblings went to Christian schools. I went to a small Christian college ("for small Christians") myself. That may be why I found Saved flat, especially compared to Jesus Camp (although I realize that comparing scripted and documentary is a bit uneven). For myself, I think that the TV series Friday Night Lights gets it about as right as anyone.

BTW, to Daniel: I love your blog and I'm very excited about this column.

So will Spiritainment (TM) be classified as drama or comedy? Or as documentaries? Or how about under "Sleep Aids"?

And I'm working on "The Easter Miracle When Daddy Came Home: A Soldier's Story" right now! In the middle of a pivotal battle in the Sunni Triangle, the soldier prays to Jesus to get him out of there alive, then an insurgent blow the guy's legs off with an RPG. So the soldier returns home completely disillusioned, but the love of a very special little girl (or boy, not sure about that yet) shows him how much he has left to be grateful for.

And "Saved!" is a very good movie. I highly recommend it, religious or not (and I'm not).

You mention 'The Apostle.' Without having to think hard at all, I can add 'Dogma' (flawed, certainly; but God, that dialogue!) and 'The Rapture' (starring Mimi Rogers--Netflix it now).

Also, 'End of the Spear.' This is one of those movies that was marketed to (and screened in) churches. My husband Netflixed it in ignorance, and to my COMPLETE astonishment, it was a damn decent movie about real people of real faith. I expected to loathe it, and I liked it. Check it out.
>>>

Man, I need to revisit "The Rapture." When I saw it I did not like it, but I was a hard line Evangelical then and found it a bit...weird?

Then again, one of my favorite "faith-based" (yuck!) films is "The Last Temptation of Christ," which most of the "Christians" on the right decry as a blasphemous work (I wonder how many who consider it such have actually seen the film).

I do like Dogma, in spite of the dialogue, though. :-)

I, for one, would love to see a sappy Satanic movie. How would THAT work? ;-)

What is this?! Thoughtful, articulate posts? People being tolerant of one another's views--and about one of the most divisive, emotional topics in the human experience?

Oh, the civility.

Where's the nasty? Where's the scathing bitchy, for Gawd's sake? Come on, people!
>>>

Screw you, Jerce! Screw you right in your religious ear! YEAH!

(Is that better?) ;-)

5-15-9
"I base my faith on reason. At least reason based on evidence."

But faith is never based on evidence. As was pointed out earlier faith is mental acceptance of and confidence in a claim as truth without proof supporting the claim. That's it.

If your belief and trust in the existence of the deity of your choice was actually based on reasoning and evidence, you would be able to say that you have been presented with unarguable proof that the aforementioned deity exists. But saying that would just make you a liar. Or a complete bastard for not sharing the evidence with everyone, including the scientific community.

Faith requires a leap of faith. A step away from logic, reason and evidence.

Well, I'm right with you on Nashville's music scene. :) And if we're going to compare "Saved!" to "Jesus Camp," well, yeah, there's no question there. Like I said, I don't really disagree with you in any substantial way - I've found "Saved!" to have limited rewatchability, although I enjoyed the hell out of it (no pun intended) the first time through. It may be one of those things where a movie gets more credit than it fully deserves from those who can most identify with it - really, how many movies do survivors of the Christian junior high and high school experience have? In any case, I haven't seen "Friday Night Lights," but if you think it's worth checking out, I'll give it a shot. Just as soon as it comes out on DVD (poor grad student - I don't have television).

You should have seen the leaps and bound of logic that we took in order to put on Productions up at (Insert name of Private Southern Chrisitian University Which Daniel Attended). The board complains about the whores in "Oliver?" No problem! We just had them renounce their wicked ways and find the salvation of Jesus just before they were strangled by Bill Sykes.

And he kills at least 3 whores in the course of that musical. That's 3 converts! The board approves.

This is one of the reasons I left there, and why I'm glad they never got to touch "Les Miserables."

Great column, but, then again, we've always sort of seen eye to eye on these things.

-Jon.

Another reason to love Pajiba. Thoughtful and funny, as usual.

" "Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality?"

"Probably because faith and rationality tend to be mutually exclusive.
Posted by: Hakobus at April 12, 2007 10:17 AM"

HAA! Fantastic! Can I please use that, Hakobus?
I have a relative who still argues against the reality of dinosaurs. Short answers to simply cut the conversation off, are probably best at this late stage.

Landon,

I really don't want to come across as too hard on Saved. It's just that I've been steeped in church all my life. My dad's a deacon; my mom taught Sunday School and was church secretary. My sister is a pastor's wife and I was a minister myself for 15 years. I've seen church from deep, deep inside and after seeing all that rich material, most attempts to present it just fall a little flat. I suspect it would take a really twisted soul to make the movie I would fully enjoy--someone who understood the strange dichotomy of American religiosity, who still believed (or was at least generous toward belief or took it seriously) while still being able to tap into the various failings of humanity and the lies we so often tell ourselves. Basically it would have to come from "inside" and I'm not sure that will ever happen.

As far as Friday Night Lights, it's an absolutely stupendous TV series and (on-topic here) I love how of course the characters go to church. And they're serious about it. They just don't always connect how deeply their American/Texan lives influence what they believe/preach/practice.

Hakobus,
Again, as with everyone else who's commented on my, uh, comments, I see where you are coming from. And again the error was on my part for not making it clear. I tend to say these things around my friends who know me and what angle I get at, at least more often than not. They tell me I speak in riddles. The proof or evidence I mentioned was like that of our emotions. You can't see them, only their effect on a person.
The evidence I see of God I would like to go into, but that will turn this into a debate rather than an exchange of ideas. Not that debates are bad, just that sometimes they are unfriendly and this is not the format for them.
But, I see what you're saying. In the Christian community, as I've heard it said, seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing. Which I subscribe to. Only, to go back a little, a person accepts something based on whether he or she finds the weight of the evidence to be strong enough to support that leap of "faith."
In order for me to believe in a God of a particular creed (a band that sucks, by the way), I first have to come to the realization that there is, in fact, a God at all. And my coming to realize that was based on conclusions I've reached through honest searching along with specific questions getting answered that I had previously asked and not because "mom and dad says there's a big guy in the sky and I'm 'posed to believe them."
To bring up what someone said to me earlier, there are two kinds of faith.
The kind I'm talking about is illustrated best like this:
I stand in front of you and tell you I have a penny in my pocket. You don't know what to make of it quite yet, seeing as you don't know whether I do or not. I then show you a penny.
Now I say to you that I have a quarter in my pocket. You have more grounds to believe me, right? Well, I go ahead and show you the quarter. Now, you've got some faith in me at least so far as it goes. This goes on and on for a while. Eventually, because you've only seen evidence that I tell the truth and nothing but, you have solid faith, at least in that fact. Lastly, I tell you that I have a gold coin in my pocket. I don't show you, and I walk away. Because people walking around with gold coins in there pockets is, more or less, a rarity, you have reason to believe I was bluffing. But I've told you the truth so far, so you extend your faith to a new kind. That is the faith in the unseen.
So, I do understand what you mean and appreciate you pointing it out. I just don't want people to think I don't know what I, myself, mean.
Laters.

Daniel,

While I loved the Lyle Lovett clip, I saw him w/ the Large Band in, oh, about 92-93. For the third encore, the whole ensemble gathered around the piano and sang the old hymn "Do Not Pass Me By." It reduced me to a puddle of goo. The lady next to me looked at me and said, "Did you like that?" I had to reply, "Like it? Ma'am, that was every Sunday afternoon at my Grandma's house."

..........How can a person not believe in Dinosaurs?

What if I believe in Dinosaur Jr.?

Well, yeah, then I'd say you were a.......BLASPHEMER!!!! Only not really, because I too believe in them so there.

Daniel,

I am also looking forward to your new column. I spent about a year attending a weekly Bible study class (at the urging of a good friend), and I still remember one of the first classes I attended, the leader of the group was talking to me and said that the group would start off each class with prayer requests and "it always amazes me how often those prayers come true".

And that sums up 95% of the publicly "devout" Christians I've met -- a lot of public displays of their religion and a lot of loud and persistent talking about it, and complete shock and surprise if anything happens that indicates God might actually exist and might actually have been paying attention to what they were saying or doing.

But the remaining 5% have been deeply spiritual people, who try really hard, have a lot of their own internal doubts and struggles, and who are often the least showy about their faith but the most devoted to it and some of the nicest and most sincere people I've ever met.

So I'm hoping your column can dig up the 5% of the Christian-themed entertainment out there that actually is spriritual and worthwhile. Like Jenn, I wonder why almost everything "Christian themed" has to be either weirdly touchy-feely or disturbingly brutal and guilt-ridden.

I'm really looking forward to this column as well. I echo what Camille and Jenn have said - I hope you can unearth the movies about Christianity that are actually worth watching and don't paint all Christians as close-minded vengeful crusaders. There are Christians out there like me who have close friends who are of religions (or lack thereof in the case of my hubby) and sexual preferences that would make them pariahs to the close-minded assholes who seem to always get themselves into the public arena. I for one welcome the opportunity to experience it.

Tangentially, I did actually see The Last Temptation of Christ. I usually don't like Scorcese films (bite me), but I watched it because Bowie played Pontius Pilate (or however the hell you spell it). I didn't find it to be blasphemous. Instead, it creatively demonstrated that Jesus withstood some very enticing temptations and still fulfilled His promise as God. It made me even more thankful for His sacrifice. Sorry if that seems like proselytizing to you godless heathens, but that's what I felt. ;-)

So here's to more films like 'The Apostle' and 'Saved!'

Hmmmm, maybe I shouldn't curse so freely in a post regarding my faith?

Camille--AMEN, sister (ha!). I am a Christian, attending a private Christian university, and I can't tell you how much the feel-good, answered-prayers testimonies make me gag. I think you said it best:

"But the remaining 5% have been deeply spiritual people, who try really hard, have a lot of their own internal doubts and struggles, and who are often the least showy about their faith but the most devoted to it and some of the nicest and most sincere people I've ever met."

Personal example--my mom has dealt with lupus for about 18 years now. Has she prayed about it? You bet? Has she been healed? No. We've questioned, doubted, etc. But that doesn't mean that we don't believe. I think it's naive to assume that because you pray about something (a) God will answer your prayer, making Him in essence like Santa Claus, or (b) He doesn't answer, because you were bad. Utter crap. And that's why Christianity represented in the movies is so caricatured, so stereotyped, because so many people fit it.

And I second the opinions about leaving To Kill a Mockingbird alone. Just...no.

I'm excited about this column, and I've enjoyed the comments, because they are so interesting and have valid and grounded points. Pajibans, keep up the good work!

Yeah!!! Nice to see one I-don't-fit-in-Christians writing about the whorish nature of our faith!

I have the distinct honor of having been one of the many who marched in protest against "The Last Temptation of Christ" (which as a child I thought was about Jesus' love of doowop) and then saw the movie- I was insulted by the everything BUT the blasphemy!

Can't wait to see more of this blog! Jesus loves you (and we do too!)

I think it's naive to assume that because you pray about something (a) God will answer your prayer, making Him in essence like Santa Claus, or (b) He doesn't answer, because you were bad. Utter crap.

Quite true - or because you're not praying hard enough. Speaking as someone born and raised Baptist (although I no longer consider myself a Christian or even religious), many (if not all) of the well-known pastors and/or ministers perpetually preach this. Because it's more dynamic and emotionally stirring than the alternative. It certainly can be argued that individuals have been healed by prayer, but my issue is that the message seems to imply, "Don't YOU take any steps to improve your life - just wait on the Lord! He will renew your strength! Joy will come in the morning!" I mean, forget Corporate America, many churches have their form of branding, too, and as many catchphrases. It's really bad in black churches, where being weary, worn, and sad is almost expected.

Great idea for a new column. The cynicism on both sides of these "sell it to evangelicals" movements (political, "spiritainment" etc.) means that more watchdogs are needed. Dobson et. al. aren't looking out for their flock, they're just about the power. Weinstein, Rove et. al likewise.

Dan - Way to hit the Jesus nail on the proverbial head. I'm looking forward to more where it came from, as I'm in the same boat as you, just still in Texas. Imagine how popular I am with the religious kids around here!

god bless you for the lyle lovett clip.

"As a liberal Christian, I'm accustomed to not quite fitting in, whether I'm in the gun-toting flag-waving immigrant-hunting gay-lynching overweight haven that is Texas"

Ummmm....everyone knows this is a true stereotype. Kind of like Asian drivers?

I'm another liberal Christian looking forward to this column. I was raised fundamentalist (charismatic, no less) in Texas and now I'm liberal Episcopal in New York. Hmm, Episcopal in New York has a movie title ring to it. When I told my mother I was attending an Episcopal church, she proceeded to warn me that the new head bishop (can't remember the proper term) is "pro-gay". I was shocked to realize that Mom must be "anti-gay" since I had always credited her with my open-mindedness. I'm just glad I'm far away from the family at this point...

I too was raised in a Southern church and went to a Southern private religious university and I am ALL about Godding It Up, Pajiba-style.

"Posted by: apocalipstick at April 12, 2007 12:55

'Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality?'

"Probably because faith and rationality tend to be mutually exclusive."

Hakobus, I think the fact that this column and ensuing discussion exist negates your statement."

No.

"Posted by: apocalipstick at April 12, 2007 12:55

'Why is it so difficult for people to combine faith with rationality?'

"Probably because faith and rationality tend to be mutually exclusive."

Hakobus, I think the fact that this column and ensuing discussion exist negates your statement."

I didn't post that. brng did. Poster's name is at the bottom.

oops! apologies.

That sounds like something a witch would say, Mr. Carlson.