Pajiba

Well-said, Rowles. It is nice to have some antagonizing around here to keep things lively. Remember what it was like when Slim was on his little hiatus? I mean, it's certainly fun to have everyone agreeing and talking about sex and tits, but it's more fun to have a few real pissers mixed in there too. Gets the blood boiling every now and then.

I'll direct you to TK's comment above for the inspiration that my post is sorely lacking.

I love it here.

My significant other told me as Election Night got underway that it would either be the night that she regained her faith in humanity or lost in completely. The first two elections she'd been able to vote in, see, were 2000 and 2004. I was spared that - my first as 1992. She was pensive. Unsure. But by the end of the night, Ms. Cynical herself, Ms. I Don't Like Politics or the News, wept as she made me replay President-Elect Obama's speech a third time. She said, "I have this strange feeling. I don't know what it is, but I think it's hope."

Amen to that.

Yes we can.

Yay! Politician meeting a certain skin pigmentation and economic policy has won! In other news, government will continue to grow, our liberty will continue to shrink, our fiat money will continue to lose value, and our military will continue to kill people in other countries.

You guys have one job left: don't abandon him. Don't let him do the work on his own. You elected him (thank you!), now you better keep supporting him.

If you leave him sitting there in the Oval Office, expecting fucking miracles, then you will deserve Palin/Fucktard 2012.

That's all. Sweden, Europe and the rest of the world are ecstatic about what you did, but you're not done.

it's going to be a hard time for him. i think you're right to point out how much more difficult it will be for obama that it was for bush and clinton. it is unfortunate that he will be held to a higher standard, but he will not only succeed but thrive

btw
i absolutely HATE, with a seething black hatred, all of the voters in Cali, Arizona, Arkansas and Florida who voted against gay rights.
i would like to curse all of you with painful STDs

There are no words adequate to explain how my heart feels today. Watching the crowds in Grant Park and Rockefeller Center last night kept me in tears and chills. Trying to explain the significance to my young children this morning made me feel so humble. I feel like I can breathe again for the first time in years. I feel like we might have hope and real pride in our country again. I feel like we have a chance at earning respect and friendship with other countries again. I feel like we will pull together again. Cynic that I am, I feel downright hopeful.

Marxist!!!

I'm a little touched because courtney 1 used to hate people with a seething white hatred.

Oh, and I thought it was funny that none of the big TV stations covering the election would report on Florida until after the win was a done deal.

my friends had agreed not to go to grant park last night because we were afraid of riots (bulls championships anyone?). but as soon as it was announced in the bar, we hoped on our bikes and rode hard for 30mins until falling into the park's crowd. there were three large screens projecting obama and i could hear his real voice echoing from behind me.
i'm so glad we went. the crowd was chaotic but peaceful. i ended up wishing everyone a happy new year.

"You mean he fucking won?!" - Eddie Murphy

Excellent points, DR.

One of the few advantages of being bucdaddy's age, i.e. ancient -1 day, is that you've seen it all before (it's also one of the negatives, but never mind). So what little consolation I need today I derive from the knowledge that the last time we gave the Democrats unfettered power -- the White House, the Senate, the House (1992) -- they managed to piss it away in two short years (thanks, Clintons!) and usher in the Gingrich Era. (Of course, HE then managed to piss it away ...) Also that the last Democrat before that who promised big change in Washington got kicked out after four long, dismal years and ushered in the Reagan Revolution.

So be careful what you wish for. America will give you some leash, but she has a short attention span, and when she yanks that leash back she can be a bitch.

In the meantime, while I'm no fan of Obama, my fervent prayer is that some wingnut doesn't take a shot at him the next four years, or there'll be hell to pay in the cities.

Now: Open your wallets, people! All this stuff you claim to want for free isn't going to pay for itself without some serious hocus-pocus.

........................ holy shit.

Awesome. Now I can let go of that breath I've been holding.

*flips switch to serious*

I had said it before but again, well done America. I really cannot convey how impressed I am with American citizens in this election. Record voter turnout, no significant issues with voting and hopefully a willingness for both sides of the political coin to pull their collective heads out of a certain orifice in order to put the country back together.

I wish we had had this type of an election in Canada, instead we had the polar opposite. I fully agree with Mr. Rowles, Obama really has his work cut out for him and will face more scrutiny than perhaps any other American President in history. I sincerely hope he has the talent and, indeed, the stamina to be able to do the job. It would be great to see America as a uniter of the countries of the world rather than a divider.

While I tend to be on the conservative side of things I truly beleive that a leader of Mr. Obamas character and veiwpoint is what America and the world needs at this time and, frankly, I'm a little bit jealous.

*switch off*

Mind if we borrow him for a bit? C'mon he doesn't take office for a while.

And there's even some evil mothers
they're gonna tell you that everything is just dirt
And you know that women never really faint
and that villains always blink their eyes
That children are the only ones who blush
and that life is just to die

Oh, sweet, sweet Jay. I don't know what prompted the VU quote, but it made me smile.

Brian, yes that is the same park as the concert series.

As for what you said Dustin, thanks for mentioning us right-leaners, but I am not a blind conservative either and have voted Democrat once since '88. (41, Clinton, Powell , Nader, no-vote, McCain)

Dustin, what you said was right; he will be held to a higher standard but not only because of his race. It will be because of the ideas that he put forward and how he presented them, such as the Berlin and Denver speeches. If he would have made these presentations in a fashion more of a potential president versus a rock star, I do not believe that the expectations would be as high.

Even some of the left-leaning pundits said last night they are not certain of the direction of an Obama presidency because we know so little about him record wise. This is a man that has stepped forward and has said my lack of true political leadership is a non-factor; well he is going to have to prove it. Many believe that Ferraro was out of turn with her remarks about Obama, mentioning the belief that if he were white he would not have been in that position to win the office, a remark that I agree with, I believe Americans took this as an opportunity to throw out the old furniture of racism and hopefully start anew.

I only hope that the poison of racism that still courses through some of the veins of our citizens does not foist itself amongst us and stays hidden until the next election via a vote and not a malicious act. I hope that this man that so many of you believe in will be allowed to prove whether or not most of you were right. I fear for this country if we are inaugurating the 45th president before the time set forth in our election laws.

Congratulations to all Obama backers, I hope for you and all Americans, that he is everything you want him and think he will be.

...as a black man, Obama is going to be held to a higher standard during his first term, his first year, and his first 100 days than any other president in the history of this country.

I know exactly what you mean. There will be all kinds of expectations. He'll be expected to run faster, jump higher, be more athletic. "Oh! He's a black leader. He should be able to scramble out of the pocket and move the sticks when his offense breaks down. If he can't get it done with his arm, he needs to do it with his feet." Why can't anyone seriously just let him throw the damn ball. Look at McNabb. He tried to be you prototype black leader and has been injury plagued. Look at Russell. He's trying to get it done with his arm and is getting shit on. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Hopefully Biden is a stud running back who can carry the team if he has to.

Now Michael can resume being the only Palin who matters!

I would say I am speechless, but I am never speechless.

I thoroughly agree that we must hold President-Elect Obama and our Congress to their promises. Write your legislators, people, make your voice heard beyond the polling booth! Their staff members read those letters, and if you are the squeaky wheel, they do listen.

And bucdaddy, many of us who voted Obama do understand that what we want costs money. We're OK with that. I've never had a problem with taxes, as long as they pay for what the country needs. That's where our advocacy comes in. Tell Congress and our new President what our priorities are, and don't let up until they get it right.

We proved last night that We Can. Now we need to prove that We Will.

Pookie...wow. I like the real sense of emotion you just gave us there. It was nice. Now...somebody get Mr. Obama a wrench...let's fix this fuckin' thing eh!

To answer your question sosumi, I believe Kennedy, Carter and Clinton got 100% of the African American vote. So if you look at it in those terms Barack under performed.

Obama is going to be held to a higher standard? By whom? Maybe by conservatives grumbling in back rooms and Fox News whom nobody (except conservatives grumbling in back rooms) takes seriously anyway. He's eloquent, young, and charismatic, very much reminiscent of Kennedy. Whatever you think of Kennedy, he was elected by stealing Chicago through an arrangement between his father and Mayor Daley in Chicago and he got us into the war in Vietnam and of course who can forget the Bay of Pigs fiasco. And yet he is held up as a martyred hero by the left and generally well-regarded by the public at large. It's all about the rhetorical skills.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) this is a wake-up call to the Republicans that their current tactic has gotten stale. There are real reasons behind the differences between the parties and (believe it or not) they have nothing to do with abortion and war, but the Republicans sold their souls to an electorate with its own agenda. As an objectivist/libertarian I can't hope for an elected official that reflects my views exactly any time soon, but a real old-timey Republican platform would be a lot closer.

I have a question.

Who are the people who care about who I choose to marry? Seriously?

If anyone here on Pajiba voted against gay marriage, I am very interested in your reasoning. I'm not even going to argue with you. I just want to know your thought process.

Everyone keeps calling Obama an African American. He's HALF WHITE. I'll feel that this country has made progress when we quit labeling people by their darker genes only.

Posted by: BWeaves

I understand what you mean by that comment. But Obama is literally African American.

I'd bet any prejudice he's ever faced had more to do with the color of his skin than with his white half. When some of his more feeble-minded oponents attacked him and made signs that had his name next to a monkey or called him a Muslim because of his name they never considered his white half. Yes, he's half white. No one can argue that. But Obama's image has a lot to do with the way the world has reacted. It is part of the big change we expect the US to go through.

People judge you on what they see; you can't deny that.

Now: Open your wallets, people! All this stuff you claim to want for free isn't going to pay for itself without some serious hocus-pocus.

Posted by: bucdaddy at November 5, 2008 10:07 AM

bucdaddy and I occupy roughly the same demographic stratum (so far as I can tell these things across the interwebs) but sit on opposing sides of the political continuum. Cool. Some of us just age more gracefully than others, I guess.

Here's the deal, bd. It annoys me no end to hear conservatives whine about the insufferable pain associated with opening their wallets even though they were gleeful operators of the printing press that kept padding zeroes on the National Debt during those golden years of Reagan and Bush 41/43. Or were you simply not ever planning on paying that money back?

This is from msn.ca:

"Leading up to the election, several major, international polls showed that if the world could vote, Obama would easily be carried to the White House on the shoulders of all but a few nations.

Not only has Obama energized the American electorate, he has energized public opinion in many regions throughout the world"

Amen to that. Congratulations on finally getting it right, America.

The monetary policy under Reagan and Bush was responsible for this too. Calling yourself Conservative doesn't automatically mean that every policy you enact is conservative. I would have to do a lot more research to find the last president that was fiscally responsible, but it sure as hell wasn't in my lifetime. Every bit of prosperity we have had since like the 60s has been a complete sham.

"If anyone here on Pajiba voted against gay marriage, I am very interested in your reasoning. I'm not even going to argue with you. I just want to know your thought process."

The problem/conflict comes in because at a certain point the government decided to assign special priviledges to marriage, thus making it politicized. A better question is, why should government know or care whether two people are married, or involved in any way with each other, beyond the standard contractual laws (for instance, two people sign a contract that joins their future property and earnings, and breaking that contract brings in issues of compensation, etc).
If you want to live with another person, get married, or whatever, it should not have any bearing on your relationship with the government - it should be as irrelevant as whether or not you collect model trains. If the government did grant special priviledges to model train collectors, you can guarantee those who collect model airplanes would be demanding equal rights.

Eep, as a person who grew up in a small town near Orange County in Southern CA, I can tell you that there are a lot more conservatives in that state than you might think. How do you think Arnold got elected? I mean, that election was a circus anyway (he was running against strippers for fuck's sake), but there were viable Democratic candidates.

My question about why people voted against gay marriage is not for those who are simply following the party platform. I want a thought process. WHY did you cast that vote? How did you come to that conclusion?

Or were you simply not ever planning on paying that money back?

Posted by: Che Grovera at November 5, 2008 11:10 AM

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!

We Have A Winnah!
~

well I would guess blonde that some people have religious reasons for not supporting gay marriage. Mock it all you want but for some folks that's a very important part of their lives and if they dont feel their religion is reconciled to homosexuals getting married then they won't vote for it. That being said I dont live in CA and am in the Lane Honda camp on this issue. Marriage is a religious ceremony and it should be up to the respective churches to decide whether they support gay members being married. Its the government's job however to make sure the same rights are granted on same sex unions.

From the BBC News...

"Israeli President Shimon Peres wrote to Mr Obama saying: 'Dear Mr President, The world needs a great leader. It is in your making. It is in our prayers. God bless you.'"

I tell you, that even got me a little choked up.

I live in Arizona and voted against the gay-marraige amendment, but I'm not surprised it passed anyway. But I am suprised, and wildly disappointed, that California saw fit to say "Screw Ellen and Portia and their unnatural union." Assholes.

And of course, fucking Joe Arpaio's still the sherriff in my county. Nobody cares that pregnant women lose their babies and paraplegics become quadripalegic in his jails.

sorry about not closing my tags there

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!

We Have A Winnah!

Posted by: Meander at November 5, 2008 11:29 AM

Tidy little blog you have there, Meander. I like the way you roll.

Correction to those of you saying marriage is a religious ceremony.

Last time i checked...the JOP wasn't religious. Christianity made Marriage a sacrament, but that in no way make marriage a religious ceremony. It's religious to the religious only. I could go down to the JOB today and marry Nicole and there wouldn't be a hint of religion surrounding the whole day...with exception of her screaming for God in extasy on the wedding night.
(see what I did there? ZING!!!)

Yeah, I don't know why it has to be religious. As far as I'm concerned, if you say you're married, you are. The only monkey wrench in the works is the government tweaking benefits so as to purchase your votes.

All I know is, I'm excited. That's a feeling that I have never had toward our political process. Whether or not everything works out in the end, at least the attempt was made.

Also, Kolby is finally gonna pop out that kid she's been toting around for ten years. Keep her in your thoughts.

I walked into my extremely GOP centric office today with some apprehension but everyone is in a mostly good mood. My Republican co-workers are hesitant, but most of them only voted for McCain because they worried about Obama's far left back ground. Just about everyone I've spoken to has said, and I agree with this, that if Obama can maintain a centrist policy he could be one of the greatest Presidents in our history. And he ran on a centrist policy so it's going to be important that he toe that line because that is how he won over the moderate Republicans.

For the first time in a long time I'm proud of what my country has done. If nothing else we rejected a vicious campaign of slander and overcame our long history of racial intolerance. It's just the beginning, but it feels damn great to HAVE a beginning.

We can and we did. Now he better fulfill his promises.

Happy happy.

:dies from alcohol poisoning:

Someone said it better than me (as usual):

"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible; who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time; who still questions the power of our democracy: Tonight is your answer."

President-Elect Barack Obama
Election Night 2008

Yes, I got teary-eyed when I got out of class last night and into the car and heard that it was decided for Obama.

And then I got nauseous when I heard the Prop 8 was likely going to win. It does put a damper on the Obama-joy.

Large parts of California are Oklahoma as far as political views go. I saw a map of counties in the state by yes/no on Prop 8, and a thin ribbon down the coast and around Nevada were NO, the rest of the state was YES.

Given the deceptive and malicious campaign that "Yes on 8" ran, it didn't really surprise me, but I was still disappointed in this state and 52% of its people.

My question to California is why the hell do you guys keep electing Nancy frickin Pelosi? I understand that sometimes there are no better options, but still.

Fortunately, I didn't have to vote for her, but there really wasn't much alternative. Would you want to look at Cindy Sheehan for 2 years?

I think I sounded a little too down in my prior post -- it will feel SO good to actually not be embarrassed by the leader of my country.

Obama has so many challenges ahead of him, moreso than any president in my lifetime. I hope he is up to it.

Forty-seven percent of the American electorate didn't vote for Obama, ...There are going to be a very outspoken few who will be waiting to pounce on his first mistake. And they will be loud.

And 51% will shout them down.

I will admit, listening to the address, I felt a little tinge of shame everytime he wagged his finger at the "cynical," because I was. Today, my heart soars, and I'm gonna be brave and let it, for once. Have a little Hope, subby.

I'm an English teacher, and in my classes today I've been having my students write in their journals what they think about Obama becoming president. Some of them are incredibly funny. This comes unabridged from an eighth-grader:

"I don't like Barack Obama bc I think he's taking all the guns away so that the muslims can kill us. I wish McCain was not such a mean person so that more people would've picked him. What I like about Obama is that he is going to help all illegal mexicans become legal and let them stay. I kind of think he is not the person they think he is. And what I like about McCain is that he is not going to let us die so run for ur lives bc Obama is president."

Eloquent. I've got tons of these.

One more quickie, this time from a freshman:

"I think Obama was the right choice for all the people that ain't got much money because he will help us and also McCain wanted to get rid of all the Mexicans so I think Obama was the right choice for me."

I could do this all day.

Indiana is blue! glorious blue!

Unfortunately, every other election after this(until we elect a woman, that is,) will seem just plain dull and generic.

Posted by: Erin S at November 5, 2008 12:15 PM

Don't believe it. If you already recognize that tendency, start fighting it now -- by getting and staying involved. Every election is another in an ongoing series of referenda on the greatest political experiement in the history of mankind. How can that be dull and generic?

Back here on earth, I have to agree with those who have expressed concern about Pelosi and Reid acting as massive drags on any centrist momentum Obama may be building. My fervent, freshly-stoked hope is that Obama is able to counter and/or neutralize them without too much public spectacle. It will be no walk in the park, that much is certain.

I know that Sheehan was running. I would have wrote in a candidate in that case.

I agree with the sentiment about Pelosi and Reid. Frankly, had she attempted to listen to anyone in the last two years, congress might have had a higher approval rating that the Idiot in office. Che, I think the only way to neutralize Pelosi/Reid is to convince them that any good idea was their idea.

Marriage is defined as the union of a man and a woman, check it in the dictionary. I'm all for gays having equal rights as straights, but the word marriage is defined as man + woman, not anyone + anyone. Maybe if they changed the language it wouldn't be such a big deal. What's wrong with garriage? Also, Prop8 doesn't take away anyone's rights. Get your facts straight. (Yes, I'm a CA voter and yes, I'm expecting a huge backlash from you liberal gangsters on this website).

Marriage is defined as the union of a man and a woman, check it in the dictionary.

WRONG:

Definitions of Marriage on the Web:

* the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union"
* two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love"
* the act of marrying; the nuptial ceremony; "their marriage was conducted in the chapel"
* a close and intimate union; "the marriage of music and dance"; "a marriage of ideas"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Marriage or wedlock is an interpersonal relationship (usually intimate and sexual) with governmental, social, or religious recognition. It is often created by a contract or through civil processes. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Easy, and fun!
~

Meander:

[fist bump]

Nicely done, sir.

I have, Nicole, but not nearly as often as I should.

Mattfactor - please! Do this all day! The ones you've posted were awesome.

Nicole,
Along with being an actor, I am also a professional fundraiser for arts organizations and I can tell you firsthand that the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Writing your local and national legislators makes you feel part of the process, and the more you do it, the more they listen. At the end of the day, your legislators want to get re-elected, and if they are getting vocal outcries from their constituencies, you bet their staff members will call their attention to it. Also, at least in Ohio, you can make an appointment and speak directly with your Reps/Senators, in their office.

I assist at an arts center in Appalachian Southeast Ohio - we would never be on the radar in Columbus if we weren't vocal and obnoxious. We do this exceedingly well and it works.

So, please, don't think that your voice ends at the polling place - it is just the beginning.

Ummm, my posts are really lacking in snark or funny lately - how about "boobsboobsboobsGodtopusboobs." There, now I feel like I am back at Pajiba!

Ahhh, curt, welcome to the dilemma of the Republican Party.

Do my fellow 'jibans do this too, or am I a big dork with exquisite breasts?

Marry me Nicole. Err...i mean!...umm...

Yes...and let ME be the judge of that.

I mean...umm...nice shoes. Wanna fuck?

Maybe I'd have a better perspective on gay and lesbian marriage if most of the gays I interact with in my city weren't so sexually and verbally explicit and vulgar. No one draws a line between the nice lesbian couple who are decent people (who I think deserve to get married) and the two flaming gay guys who use drugs (both of which live on my block, in Long Beach, California). I don't want those gay guys to have extra privileges because they are not benefits to society, they are hindrances and give other homosexuals a bad name.

Meander:

[fist bump]

Nicely done, sir.

Posted by: TK at November 5, 2008 12:56 PM

I especially enjoy it when they lie about what's in the Bible.
~

Rest assured, Kayenne, I am not your daddy. At least, not that I KNOW of (*wink*). Might be willing to be your sugardaddy tho, if your idea of sugar is a couple beers and some hotdogs.
+++
Che, Yes, that's why I finally bailed on my party (I'd define myself as a fiscal conservative and a social libertarian, cause I couldn't possibly care less who marries who, no law will stop gay people from being gay and doing gay things) and voted for Barr.

Yes, I'm a little slow to change. Kinda the definition of "conservative," isn't it?
+++
Also, I work with a guy who was born and raised in South Africa and Mozambique and has lived in the U.S. half his life. So I suppose you could call him "African-American" except he's as white as I am.
+++
Melody, what did Clinton get done in the "early years of his first term"? Oh yeah, he handled that "gays in the military" thing so well, sorry, I forgot (age).

Clinton really didn't get much of anything done until the Dems lost their majority in Congress (thanks, Hillary!) and Bill had to move to the center. THEN welfare reform and some other stuff got accomplished.

Tell me these kids are freshmen in kindergarten.

Well bucdaddy, the Republicans used to be a lot more like the Libertarians, and they still have a lot more power. Giving up that power to stick to your convictions is tough.

Obama has a lot of work to do. The psychos are out in force at FoxNews.com:

"There are many who are trying to turn us into Muslims like Obama. His friends in Arabia want to attack Israel so that they can destroy Jerusalem. Sarah Palin knows that she must save us in 2012. Jesus sent her early as a sign that we must pray for four years. She will deliver us from evil."

Fuck you to everyone in CA who voted for Prop 8.

pookie - what makes you think i voted for mccain/palin?

@courtney 2
The civil privileges being "married." I don't think they deserve much except maybe some rehab. They are complete assholes.

I'm not saying lesbians are better suited, those are just my personal real-life examples.

Eep: I know, I am a registered Libertarian, and one reason I am is that the party left me behind. I am white, married, middle class & Lutheran, in other words, right in the wheelhouse of the Republican Party. However, I don't believe in interfering in the lives of people who are not causing anyone harm. I think Prop. 8 is terribly invasive and ridiculous. IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS IF TWO GUYS WANT TO GET MARRIED. I would even vote to allow polygynous or polyandrous unions. I will never vote to restrict freedom which is exactly what a vote for Prop. 8 does. So I registered Libertarian a couple years ago and have not looked back.

Lainey, Lizzieborden is coming to Philly next Friday to get drunk with me and Nicole. She's even sleeping over at my place. Join us! It will be a historic event, it's the first day our tits will be together since being elected.

Rest assured, Kayenne, I am not your daddy. At least, not that I KNOW of (*wink*). Might be willing to be your sugardaddy tho, if your idea of sugar is a couple beers and some hotdogs.

HELL YES IT IS! Now that I'm 21 I will happily accept those favors. Is there a van with painted over windows I should hop into to receive my favors? Strangers really do have the best sugar...

Oh and I'm a libertarian but voted McCain in North Carolina. Honestly, the fact that Obama has won and the Dems run the congress may serve as a reminder that no party with absolute power guarantees a good thing, ya know?

My big beef with this election: Bev Perdue got elected Governor. I blame two things: 1.) people voting straight ticket Democrat & 2.) people not doing enough studying up on the local elections to know that voting for Perdue is a bad idea. I mean, hello, she's bee the lieutenant governor for how long and she hasn't gotten shit done and she won't get shit done while she's governor.

And yes I know it's historic for NC to have it's first female governor, but I want the ladies in charge to actually do amazing stuff, So that way when I have conversations with women who still believe that a woman is unfit to lead, because, ya know, "girls ca't handle it," I can point to a woman in charge (that'd she be familiar with) and say, "oh, ho, ho, but she's doing a great job sans penis!" And then I can tip my hat to them leave the conversation.

Bucdaddy, I may have had the years wrong. I remember the Clinton that balanced the budget and did more than sleep with interns. He's the only President I can remember doing anything productive. I am not saying that the man was perfect (see interns, Bosnia, Somalia, and Ken Starr), but he did fix some things while he was in office.

Steve, you do realize that you are not the arbitrator of who can and cannot get married? Hell, if there is an application process for that, I am applying to be the person that administers the intelligence test prior to people being allowed to procreate. That would fix a lot of damned things. See overpopulation, food shortages, and global warming to name a few.

Good lord, they're all freaking loons. I guess the sensible people with Libertarian tendencies are just too busy working or something. Well and of course they don't want to be involved in politics, which is kind of the point :-)

Oh, Eep, they are soooo crazy and crazy looking usually... Seriously, a comb would help the candidacy, ya know.

But to quote my dad, the political science guy who's friends as why he doesn't get into politics and who is reportedly not bucdaddy, "I'm too smart to get into politics."

And that works for some of the smartest people I know who represent all parties. They are all personally successful and are impacting the people in their local sphere in different ways. They may not have the whole political title thing, but they do pretty cool stuff even if it's not written into law.

But we neeeeeed those smart people in office. Of course, the smart people may not get elected by the public (see: Alaskan senatorial race).

Ah well, let's get this party started, shall we?

Here's the problem, Melody. Clinton benefitted from the dotcom boom in the same way that W benefitted from the housing boom. Both of them were fake wealth. P/E ratios were preposterous during that time, which meant that all the "wealth" in the stock market was based on expectations (more like dreams) of dramatically increased earnings in the future. Not to mention that Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, et al. were making hay on his watch. It was all fake wealth then like it was under the housing boom, which was based on expectation of increased real estate value rather than actual value. That's the danger that people run when they don't educate themselves about economics and politics (again I'm hoping the last few years will start to change that. The election shows that people realize that something is wrong, now we just need to connect the dots to what would be right). Things looked good under Clinton, but it was fake and it came crashing down.

Servo, that is because our tits have been campaigning in different areas of the city. They celebrated Phillies Day together, as the Facebook Pajibans may have seen.

I'm glad to know that other people also participate in the democratic process, and not just on Election Day.

I just don't understand the mentality that "gay marriage will bring about the downfall of civilization!" The way I see it, you have two people who love each other and want to commit to a life together, with all that the vows entail. That is a beautiful thing. Why does it matter if they are hetero or homo? Marriage is based on love and commitment. Simple as that.

Here in Philly we have the Constitution Center, and on my way to pick up Julie for the parade last Friday I stopped outside and took a picture of this marble marker that quotes the First Amendment. Seeing it set in stone, I really understand what it truly means and how lucky we are to live in a country that was founded on that principle. Now, if the principle could just become practice...

Blonde Savant, I voted no on Prop. 8, but then again, I live in San Francisco. There were literally zero protestors for Prop 8, if there were they would probably get crucified.

Do my fellow 'jibans do this too, or am I a big dork with exquisite breasts?

Posted by: Nicole at November 5, 2008 12:55 PM

Yes, I am a crank who actually writes to his representatives (email makes it a whole lot easier but also makes it seem less efficacious somehow).

Are you by any chance an exquisite dork with big breasts? I'll need verification, of course; a recent snapshot will suffice...

I wasn't up to staying awake all night to watch the race, so when I got up this morning I immediately turned on the tv. I didn't even find my glasses first.
I didn't need them - Obama's face filled the screen. And I sat down and listened teary-eyed to the single best political speech I've ever heard 'live'. (Shut up - I was too young/too busy having fun for all the other great speeches!)

I'm a natural cynic, but right now, hope is uppermost. He better 'have this', that's all I'm saying. For all our sakes....

Canada has just sighed a collective sigh of relief, thank you America for doing the right thing.
Also, thank you Dustin for this song, Sam Cooke has my favorite voice in music ever. I'm a cheesemo, this song brings tears to my eyes every time.

Things looked good under Clinton, but it was fake and it came crashing down.

Posted by: Eep at November 5, 2008 2:13 PM

From the standpoint of only the economy you are essentially correct, Eep, but another major factor to consider is what the government did with its windfall of "fake" wealth under Clinton. Which way did the deficit go during the '90s? At least he wasn't digging the federal hole even faster than the money was coming in to fill it. Given the general direction of things since 1980, that alone is a worthy legacy.

Speaking of 1980, I came of political age just in time to work on the Anderson campaign. Anyone remember John Anderson? He was right about a lot of things, but charisma was not his strong suit. I remember him making an appearance at Oregon State and coming away decidedly unimpressed with the man but still believing in the power of his ideas. He hit 20% in some pre-election polls, but wound up only pulling single digits in November.

I get the sense that you and I aren't as far apart politically as I might have assumed, bucdaddy -- the difference is that I had my pure idealism squelched in 1980 so now I'm a pragmatist content to try to mollify the two-party beast rather than slay it.

"Maybe I'd have a better perspective on gay and lesbian marriage if most of the gays I interact with in my city weren't so sexually and verbally explicit and vulgar. No one draws a line between the nice lesbian couple who are decent people (who I think deserve to get married) and the two flaming gay guys who use drugs (both of which live on my block, in Long Beach, California). I don't want those gay guys to have extra privileges because they are not benefits to society, they are hindrances and give other homosexuals a bad name."

-Posted by Steve somewhere up there

Uh... I don't know if you know this, Steve, but there are some pretty distasteful straight couples out there, too. No one "draws a line" between them and the straight couples who "deserve to get married" either.

For example: my girlfriend's uncle has recently gone through an ugly separation with his second wife, approximately one year after he divorced his first wife. He and his two children from his first marriage were summarily booted out of the house, so they had to crash at my girlfriend's parents' house for a couple of months until my uncle could find a decent place for them to live. And that's not even getting into the money part of things. Let's just say that both of those exes take home a substatial amouth of the man's paycheck each month.

My girlfriend's parents clearly only stay together due to a potent strain of Catholic guilt that runs through both sides of their family. I've had friends with parents who were alcoholics, parents who slapped them around for daring to disagree with them on minor issues, parents who basically sent them away to be fuck dolls for other married couples in exchange for money to make the rent, you name it.

Lotsa fucked up families around where I grew up. I'm pretty sure that I'm one of only a handful of people I know whose family is actually kind, loving and stable.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, outlaw heterosexual marriage.

Wait... No. That's not it...

What I'm really saying is that gays are people, just as diverse in character as any other group of humans. So if marriage is alright for all of the trashy breeders in our country, why isn't it OK for the decent, loving gay couple that you cite in your own fucking post?

Che- That is true. I'm not sure how much of the credit goes to the people in office at the time, Clinton included--frankly I think they just lagged the increase in revenue--but I'm not criticizing Clinton, just pointing out that our surface perception of the way things are under any given President can be far afield of what was really going on, and not just because effects lag policies.

Curt- I'm a huge Paul fan. He's a bit of a hero around here. There were a lot of Paul stickers and lawn signs out during the primaries. I would vote for him with no worries whatsoever. It's unfortunate that a handful of his personal views on issues that he believes are state issues instead of national ones made it easy for the muckrakers to undermine his candidacy. I think it's really true that he's a Republican, but his view of the Constitution makes him act as a Libertarian in Washington. I would take that in a heartbeat. I just hope someone takes up his mantle next time around.

Kayanne- I am definitely encouraging her. We're a decent team; I write her speeches for wine dinners that she presents at. I think it would be really fulfilling to just get out there and do our best to tell people the truth about what's going on, whether we win or not.

As far as the comments on Prop 8 and the other states that also voted to ban gay marriage I have a couple of observations and a vision from God I'd like to relate. If mariage is a civil institution then it is illegal for the state to discriminate and determine who can and can't get married. If its a religous institution then...

FRIENDS I have been blessed with a vision and message from God Almighty Himself. He told me that the only true holy union is that between a man and a man. therefore it is my mission to found the Church of Homan Marriage. If 2 men wish to be joined in holy matrimony the I and those who become my disciples will marry them. My Church will also marry a man and a women because procreation is necessary for the continuation of the species but it is the uniion of 2 men that is truly blessed. Lesbians are not allowed in the Chusrch of Homan cause thats just icky (Hey I gotta discriminate against someone or else what kind of religon is it.)

Prove my God and religon dont exist.

Che - I'm in Texas, way up in the panhandle.

You're right, Vermillion, and yet you're wrong, about gay marriage. The reason that "marriage" is the issue, and not "civil unions," is that by changing the name, you are saying that gays are different.

And they're not. They're still consenting adults who love each other and want to commit to each other. So why should they have to follow different rules? Even if every single thing about a civil union is the exact same, it's still classifying them as "different," and that's, frankly, unacceptable.

Thanks for indulging me, Mattfactor. I understand only slightly better now -- I spent a year in Lubbock one week a while back. Maybe their eloquence would be better stimulated if Obama wore a Red Raiders jersey?

Shit, people, it happened!!! America FTW!

actually, in a very odd way, you can thank Barack Obama for passing Prop. 8.

African-American voter turn out was up 500,000 voters from 2004 (from 700k to 1200k).

70% of African-American voters supported Prop. 8.

70%

Prop 8 is winning by about 400,00 votes right now. A GIANT portion of that is the votes of African-Americans who came out in record numbers on an historic night to address historical inequality and injustices.

Irony's a bitch sometimes, isn't she ...

Thankful McCain lost but the bigots seem to be winning the ballot measures in California, fuck.

More like -3/5 cause of insecure people. I'm of the philosophy "who gives a fuck", it happens when you're secure in your sexuality. Thus you just plain don't give a shit what two consenting adults do in their spare time. And if they love each other and want to marry, you sure as shit don't make a fuss cause "OMG UR THE SAME GENDER THAT MAKES GOD ANGRY AND HE WROTE THE BIBLE AND IT SAYS MAN AND WOMAN ONLY."

But it seems all the closeted homos decided to vote against their brethren. It might not be fair to assume people who have issues with gays are actually closeted homosexuals but those of us who are secure heterosexuals surely don't spend our waking hours getting riled about two guys buttfucking.

Che, Interestingly enough, I voted for Anderson in my first election. I've long thought we needed the moderating force of a third party. The problem is, where to start? It's a (free-range?) chicken and egg thing. It helps a whole lot to run a charismatic candidate (like Perot) for high office to draw attention and registration to your party, but without grassroots support (i.e., winning local and state elections), you have little to stand on when your candidate loses. But you have a hell of a time winning local and state elections without a charismatic candidate at the top of the ticket to galvanize interest and support.

All of us disenfranchised with the two party system tend to sound alike, just don't ask us about our favorite ice cream flavor, then we get angry.

CHOCOLATE ASSHOLES.

CHOCOLATE ASSHOLES.

Posted by: Devo at November 5, 2008 7:22 PM

That reminds me of Sarina's gnarly comment about there being no dick-flavored jelly beans.

As a Californian, I'm sorry about Prop 8--I voted against it, and badgered my friends to do the same. I just need a lot more friends. :-(

As for the Yes on 8 crowd's justification ("Restore Traditional Marriage" anyone?)--I didn't see them at street corners holding up "Until Death Do Us Part". The way I understand it, there is _no_ divorce in traditional marriages. Married to a bitchy golddigger/boozing cheating bastard? Too bad, you're stuck. But somehow Yes crowd developed selective amnesia about that.

Che, We COULD be the same person, except you have, you know, blue fur.

Che, We COULD be the same person, except you have, you know, blue fur.

Posted by: bucdaddy at November 5, 2008 10:39 PM

You say that like it's a bad thing. Well, besides the matting and trying to maintain a color not found in nature.

OK, I'll concede the point. But I get to wear a beret and you're stuck with that tricorne...

"And what about the line between the nice heterosexual couple next door and the two alcoholic drug dealers up the street, who's meth lab in the garage blew up and killed their five year old daughter?"

Oh, my God, I am sick to my stomach over that story, BlondeSavant. Jesus. First "Dear Zachary" and now this. Sorry, but defenseless children subjected to selfish, fucked-up parents put me right the hell over the edge. Phew. Deep breaths.

I am sad, sad, sad for the gay community in CA. Here's to a constitutional challenge with pro bono legal help from the country's strongest legal minds. That said, I must be a buzzkill and point out that neither Obama nor Biden supported gay marriage during their campaigns. Maybe that will change now that they're in office. Let's hope so.

Oh, Titty Marie. You make me happy for so many reasons. I agree with just about everything you said, except that I'm not Republican and I'm not a praying kind of person because I don't believe in anything. But hell yes to all the rest of it. There are jackasses of every political opinion, and we're just as fucked if Democrats or hardcore liberals refuse to cooperate and work together as we are if Republicans or hardcore conservatives do the same. You are wise and lovely, Titty Marie. And you have fantastic boobs.

Listen to her, people. Boobs of that magnificence will never steer you wrong! Cooperation doesn't mean everyone else in the country experiences an epiphany and suddenly agrees with you; it means that you give just as much as you take. Sometimes it's inconvenient or even downright difficult, but... well, welcome to life.

I have nothing against cooperation, there'd be nothing logical to that. I don't exactly like that I've been dared to not be an asshole but...whatever. However, speaking for myself, I've just been liberated from my own country, along with the way I've been made to feel about it. Yes, I'm more relieved than any other emotion, and I do believe there's common ground to be found in much-needed progress. I'm just not going to instantly forget what I've been through and I'd ask the opposition to simply respect that.

But I think we can ALL agree: The Hillary supporters are still bitterly alive and kickin'-crazy! Huh? Huh?

(No, really, I've just seen it. Yikes. And I've got nothing against Hillary herself)

Plus, Star Trek VI is probably excellent advice for everybody concerning the American Cold War.

Jay - I know two die-hard Hillary supporters who were completely TORN about voting for Obama. They seriously agonized over it. One of them ended up writing Hillary in. For real.

I'm feeling oddly compelled to speak up, to provide a bit of a counterpoint, I suppose.

Affiliations first - I'm more Libertarian than anything else, and frankly can't decide which disgusts me more - the soiling of a great many formerly "conservative" principles yoked as they have been with reactionary nonsense or the incredible incompetence and stridency of the departing administration. You get to see people's real character when they win (or think they have) and well . . .

Y'all would probably call me "Conservative", mostly because I'm deeply suspicious of government power, and more so when it gets concentrated in the moated city on the Potomic. "Program" is another word for "power" and we're not so clever that we never have nut-jobs near the levers thereof.

Create a wealth-transfer and you create mandarins holding the controls thereof, with all the temptations to corruption that go along. Create a constituency and you create a temptation to let them vote themselves bread and circuses. Using the sub-prime mortgages as an example, yes, cats got fat and slicksters did deals that couldn't work then walked away with their transaction fees. Yet, lowering standards of the Fannies came under a Democratic administrations. More telling, the "American dream of home ownership" has been a constant drum-beat for the Democratic party. So, everybody gets to own a home? The only ways to do that for people who can't afford one are either poisonous mortgages or flat out buying them a house. What's your preference?

There's plenty of blame to go around. Pandering is an equal-opportunity vice as we saw when gas prices spiked. *All three* major party candidates lept to nominate a scapegoat class, and dole out someone else's money to a constituency.

Hubris took the last Democratic administration down, and probably cost Hillary the presidency. Too many people tagged her for how it was back then. Despite the awesome powers of the US presidency, and the greater ones of the US Federal Government, the world is bigger, and always gets it's vote last. I lived through (as a young man) the grinding malaise and friction of the late 1970's through 1980s - inflation *and* recession (still way worse than the current one), while we pulled down monuments to massive government programs, poignantly symbolized as "the projects."

Then, the guys who set the stage for a roaring economy for a few decades over-reached in their turn.

So, the useful question is, I think, how do we help this guy? I was frankly hoping for McCain *because* I anticipated large Democratic majorities in both houses. We tend to screw up when one party gets it all. The "opposition", the little they are listened to, actually scrubs the ideas that just can't work. I don't think effective opposition could have made Bush a good president. I do think it could have mitigated some of the worst excesses - and the Democratic party for 8 years couldn't find a spine in a chiropractor's office. Flat out, how many in the White House should have been impeached or charged? There aren't enough fingers on the hands.

So, how do we help this guy? How do we hold back from blue-state triumphalism and paybacks which will just start another cycle of resentment in turn? How do we make room for people from small towns, who maybe hunt, and aren't Sara Palin and are wise enough to know that seeing Alaska from your house isn't foreign policy experience among diplomats and governments? How do we make room for *actual* dirt farmers, and the people who make their living in *actual* fishing economies in the decisions coming along? One kind of disconnected big-idea-ism is no better than the other. We're dumb about how the world works. We need a president of groping cautiously forward, trying to do some good. Recall that the villified President Bush was, and is still very, very sure he's right.

How do we make room for a comment from someone who isn't Sara Palin, yet does actually trade with Canadians for timber and fuel while competing with "Russians" fishing in international waters? Treaties must also be understood in what they mean to the "little people" who live under them - something Palin wasn't eloquent enough to say (and probably couldn't realize either, but that's another whole story.)

I'm proud of my country right now. The guy's (half) black and within his lifetime the folks at the front of the march to get black folks equal rights were gunned down. In the course of this election, the FBI - same FBI that was doing "dirty tricks" to King - in freaking *Virginia* stomped on a plot to gun down Obama.

I choked up watching a montage of concession speeches from the last four or five races. Possibly the most corrupt modern administration, and there's no guns in the street trying to hold on to power that way. We may not agree on much, but we won't stand for that. That's a profoundly *conservative* virtue - in the meaning of the word, not what's been hung off it the last few decades.

(And we're armed - read the rational for the second amendment before going too far banning guns. At least know the counterweight you are removing before doing so.)

So, how do we help this guy? How do we help him cope with the overwhelming pressures of the position, and the temptations of both power and victory? And how do we pull him back into line if he turns out to be a "uniter" of the same kind as Bush Jr?

My President / My VP '08

Well said (as usual), BierceAmbrose. I suspect it's a little too early to try to offer up rhetorical answers to your (for now, anyway) rhetorical questions, but they are excellent questions nonetheless.

I can't believe anyone actually tried to reason with Steve the Homophobic Douchebag.