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Michael Moore is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations

Slacker Uprising / Dustin Rowles

Film Reviews | September 24, 2008 | Comments (131)


Author’s Note: The following review is rife with biased political opinion. Don’t like it? Go fuck yourself. It’s a political documentary. If you want to argue with the points? Bring it on. We welcome those who disagree. Bonus: I’m a terrible political commentator, so — even if you are saddled with lousy positions — you have half a chance to make me look like an ass.

——

Slacker Uprising — the latest piece of agitprop from our heavy-set, liberal wanker friend, Michael Moore — is one of the first movies ever to be released online, available for free downloading. Why would Michael Moore — the most successful documentarian of all time, at least in terms of box-office gross — release his movie for free? It’s pretty simple: Slacker Uprising is incredibly dated. Also, it’s not very good.

The movie tracks Michael Moore’s “Slacker Uprising” tour in the weeks before the 2004 election, in which he travelled the country in order to encourage 18-29-year-olds to vote. And by “vote,” I mean: Vote for John Kerry. And by Vote for Kerry, I mean: Vote Against Bush. That’s one of the biggest problems, in fact, with Slacker Uprising: For libtards like myself, it not only offers a harsh reminder of what we lost in 2004, but who we offered up as our candidate: The flat-footed, uninspiring John Kerry, who had all the charisma of a wet fart trapped inside Michael Moore’s bowels.

In fact, there hasn’t been a lot of text or celluloid devoted to the collapse of the 2004 Democrats, in large part because, unlike the 2000 election, there isn’t a lot of controversy or mystery to why we lost (though conspiracy theorists among us would posit that Diebold stole the election in Ohio, the truth is, it shouldn’t have been that close). We had a lousy candidate. We lost because we weren’t running for anything; we were running against someone. And it takes a spectacularly lousy candidate to lose against the least popular, most boneheaded president of all time (with due respect to Andrew Johnson). As revolting and despicable as the Bush Administration was in 2004 (which is about half as revolting and despicable as it is in 2008), it was hard to generate a ton of enthusiasm for a wealthy blue-blood from Yale (ironically, sociologically speaking, Bush and Kerry were cut from the same cloth; Bush just hid it better, mostly by being a retard). Admirable though he was, Kerry was just another institutional candidate, the sort of guy you voted for only if the line wasn’t too long and you didn’t have dinner plans.

That reminds me: Remember how so many of us rooted for Kerry to persuade McCain to take the VP slot? Ha! Good times, good times.

If this brief trip down repressed-memory lane doesn’t exactly appeal to you, then neither will Slacker Uprising, as its only purpose, it seems, is to pour salt on the wounds of 2004. The movie has little place in the political landscape of 2008, but for its ability to unintentionally offer a contrast between Kerry and Obama, reminding us — honestly — just how good the Dems have it this year. To wit: You’d think that a documentary about inspiring the youth to get out to vote and elect John Kerry would have a lot of footage about John Kerry. But you’d be wrong. John Kerry almost managed to singlehandedly quell our hatred of Bush — political Maalox, if you will — and he’s barely in the film. Instead, Slacker Uprising focuses mostly on Bush and Cheney and the Iraq War (remember the Iraq War? Whatever happened with that? Is it over yet?).

Slacker Uprising is especially distressing in light of the progress Moore made since 2004, as a documentarian, in his health-care film, SiCKO, where he was smart enough to get out of the way of the camera and let the issue do the talking for him. Here, he’s back to his Fahrenheit 9/11 self, hogging up all the camera time and making it all about “me me me me! (it makes sense, since Uprising was filmed soon after Fahrenheit was released). He is smug. He is self-congratulatory. And perhaps most painful of all, he arrogantly talks a lot about how kind and decent the Democrats will be once they win the election (there’s not just egg on his face; the goddamn chicken sat on it).

Worse still, Uprising lacks what makes Moore’s other documentaries so compelling: Interviews with middle-Americans who support his cause spliced with caught-off-guard gotcha! moments with corporate whores (or, Republicans here) who do not. It merely follows Moore from one venue to the next, where he offers up free underwear or Ramen noodles to anyone he can get to pledge to register and vote. In each city, he is introduced by a celebrity or musician (Viggo Mortenson, Steve Earle, R.E.M., etc.), and then speaks while adoring crowds fawn all over him — there is almost as much footage devoted to those fawning crowds as there is to the substance of his lectures, which demonstrates the ego this guy has on him. For a political documentary, there is also an inordinate amount of footage devoted to the musical performances, though I’ll grant that Eddie Vedder’s cover of a Cat Steven’s song is the best part of the film.

The documentary covers some minor controversy — at several state colleges, conservatives attempted to prevent Moore from speaking by paying off the students. There are also a couple of amusingly sarcastic, faux pro-Bush commercials that Moore puts together, including one that argues that, if Kerry truly loved America, he would’ve died in Vietnam, and another that states, “Max Cleland lost two legs and an arm in Vietnam. But he still has one arm. How did that happen? One word: Cowardice! … Vote for the man who would be willing to give America his right frontal lobe. Vote Bush!” But the highlights are few and far between, and there is entirely too much self-congratulation going on to make Uprising palatable to anyone but the most ardent Moore fans (most offensive: Moore’s effort to take credit for the fact that the youth vote had the largest turnout of all time in 2004. Brother, please.).

But, again, the real problem with Slacker Uprising, besides the levels of Moore’s own self-satisfaction, is the stuffy white Elephant in the room: John Kerry. Watching the 2004 election unfold through Moore’s documentary left me with a queasy feeling as I reflected on my ability to blind myself to all that was so unappealing — politically speaking — about Kerry four years ago. How I managed to trick myself to feign enthusiasm for him as long as I did is amazing, and I suspect that McCain voters will feel similarly in four years. It just demonstrates that hating the other candidate is rarely enough to get your own elected, unless he’s someone you can feel genuinely enthusiastic about. It’s why so many Republicans denigrate Obama; there’s just not a lot of political appeal to McCain. Like Kerry, he’s distinguished, well-respected (or at least, was), and amply qualified. He’s just not that interesting a candidate.

But here’s the good news: The youth vote is gonna come out in even bigger numbers in 2008. And the great thing about that is, we don’t need Michael Moore to rally the base. We actually have a candidate to do that for us. Good thing, too, because I don’t think I could handle four years of Michael Moore taking credit for the (fingers crossed) election of Barack Obama.

Dustin Rowles is the publisher of Pajiba. He lives with his wife and son in Portland, Maine. You can reach him via email, or leave a comment below.


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Comments

Fingers crossed, indeed.

Posted by: Kolby at September 24, 2008 9:20 AM

I'll say this for Moore: at least he was doing something, the only voice for a while there. Try and keep that in perspective.
Didn't SICKO get made AFTER this?

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 9:25 AM

Damn Pinko, Commie, Blue Left State ... Errm... God, where was I? Oh yes. Godless Heathen! Go back to Hollywood!
With that out of the way, I kinda have a certain admiration for Moore. He's a Michigan boy done good. Flint, right? If he made it out of that there than it kinda gives hope to anyone who wants to make an impact. You have to admit the man makes an impact.

Posted by: Optimus Rhyme at September 24, 2008 9:25 AM

Damn it! I don't like having to agree with you, but I do - except for the title. MM is not a big, fat idiot. He's a hero (let the flames begin!). But watching this made me feel mostly defeated and sad, and in that I think even putting this film out there is a complete misstep.

...though I'll grant that Eddie Vedder's cover of a Cat Steven's song is the best part of the film.

It was surprisingly fantastic, and I recommend watching the beginning of the film if only for this performance.

Posted by: Cindy at September 24, 2008 9:26 AM

I don't think I could handle four years of Michael Moore taking credit for the (fingers crossed) election of Barack Obama.

No, Scarlett Johansson will take all the credit.

Posted by: Sofía at September 24, 2008 9:31 AM

Dear Mr. Moore,

You're not helping.


Regards,

Lib'ruls

Posted by: sansho1 at September 24, 2008 9:32 AM

The youth vote. Ha. I hope you are not relying on the youth vote to win, because brother, it ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: some Guy at September 24, 2008 9:37 AM

See, the way I look at it, some Guy, is that the "youth vote" that didn't turn out during the last election is now made up of late-20 and early-30-somethings who have jobs that don't pay their mortgages, kids who need to be fed decent food and receive adequate health care, and no savings. These are the people who graduated high school at a time when there were jobs to be had and bright futures only a step away. And they (we) watched those jobs disappear by the time they graduated from college and entered the so-called "real world." I'd wager that these people are going to vote. And if today's college students can hold out until November 5th for their usual state of apathy to set back in, I think they just may show up at the polls, too.

Posted by: Kolby at September 24, 2008 10:01 AM

MM was doing 'Roger and Me' about a decade and a half before anyone else started talking about how - hey - Michigan's economy completely hit the shit.

The fault of 'health insurance' and 'unions' MY ASS.

So whatever he does now, I still have to give him respect for then.

Posted by: twig at September 24, 2008 10:08 AM

I agree that it's probably a good thing that Micheal Moore exists, because the right wingnuts need an equally loud, manipulative and obnoxious counterweight. Gore, Kerry and now Obama have a tendency to be too polite. That is for the most part not a bad thing since it enables them to rightfully claim the high road, but you risk losing votes form the spineless, which unfortunately are important ones.

I recently saw a documentary investigating his loose interpretation of truth and found it quite shocking. The guy is not exactly open when it comes to his own dealings, financial or otherwise. He even invested in Haliburton for crying out loud! For more evidence on why M.M. is a giant hypocrite and douchetool check out: http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5004334/Michael-Moore-role-model-the.html

But again, unfortenately we need our own Karl Rove and he is the closest thing we've got...

Posted by: Pants at September 24, 2008 10:20 AM

This...

... is gonna be a fun comment thread. I think I'll just kick my feet up and plan to refresh often for today.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at September 24, 2008 10:20 AM

Some Guy: no, I think we are relying on the vote of all intelligent Americans to finally put a candidate in office that is not beholden to corporate lobbyists and the oil industry. Who will actually move this country into the new millenium, instead of leaving us mired in the CORPORATE INTERESTS ABOVE ALL bullshit we have had to indure these last 8 years. That will take us out of the puritanical dark ages the GOP has happily plunged us in. How you people can continue to defend and support the GOP is beyond me. How you can support a candidate in 2008 that has done nothing but vote against alternative energy sources his entire career is a sign of retardation.

Posted by: TylerDFC at September 24, 2008 10:24 AM

some Guy, you may or may not be right about that. On the one hand, people my age are fucking stupid. On the other hand, a lot of the polling about how and whether the youth bloc will vote can't be accurately predicted in the election, largely because we just don't have a phone pollsters can call. In one of my larger classes, only 3 out of 200+ students had a land line. If they can't reach you, you don't get polled, and they assume you aren't voting.

Then again, it could just be a wash between the youth who aren't getting polled actually voting and the closet racist fucks who say they'll vote for Obama but then get overpowered by fear of the black man once they're in the voting booth.


Also, We had a lousy candidate. We lost because we weren't running for anything; we were running against someone.

Exactly. We were fucking Creationism '04.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 10:25 AM

I've always liked Michael Moore. I think he's smart and funny, though I don't always agree with him. And you gotta admit he brings attention to things nobody really wants to talk/know about.

And there's the Catholic thing. We need more cool Catholics. We have Guy Fawkes and Colbert. I wouldn't mind having Moore up there, too. All the cool people are Jews. Lucky them...

Posted by: Sofía at September 24, 2008 10:27 AM

Sean Hannity is my father.

Anyhoow, about the only thing I'd like to see Moore in is a goddamed carwash, sans car. That fella needs to be cleaned off with high-pressure disinfectant and shaved immediately. That hat needs to be sent to an incinerator...

Posted by: Skittimus Maximus at September 24, 2008 10:40 AM

See, I never bought into the idea that Kerry was so uninspiring. Clinton was often criticized for being sooo boring droning on and on about economic policy and I have to agree (it's also a reason I voted for him since he obviously had an idea of what to do). Yet, Obama is uber-inspirational against a dying blow-hard and the race is still statistically tied. So, no, I don't think the loss was due to Kerry's lack of personality.

The bottom line falls to two possibilities. 1) That die-bold (or Ohio's Secretary of State) stole the election. Very possible given the evidence. And add to the fact that the sort of shenanigans that defined Ohio's election, and Florida's in 2000, more than likely occurred in every state to some degree. 2) Middle America really is so fucking stupid that it would stifle all sense of self-preservation for the lie of "God and Country."

Both arguments have serious merits, but given the state of this year's close election, I'd have to tip the balance - with a heavy fucking sigh - the latter.

In short, you're wrong Dustin in blaming Kerry for the loss. However, and I'm going to trust you on this since I won't bother watching it, you're probably right about this documentary sucking fat, hairy balls.

Posted by: Duane at September 24, 2008 10:41 AM

The thing is, you Laissez-faire folks have had the run of things for 8 years.

How's that been workin' out?

Are we better off? How is it that we need to bail out fucking CAPITALISTS with our hard earned money? To the tune of 500 BILLION+ What's that about? We are communist now?
How is is that we have to pay an Iraq war debt that's also into the BILLIONS and BILLIONS, a war exclusively for the benefit of the Oil and Military Industrial Complex. Is Texaco gonna bail YOU out when you lose your home.

Use your fucking heads.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 10:43 AM

I had a major fight with my mother about Fahrenheit 9/11 when it came out. I pointed out that Michael Moore was essentially the Rush Limbaugh of the left, and just because he happened to be on our side didn't mean that he was a bastion of truthiness. His journalistic integrity is on the same level as any rightwing nutjob, and somehow I don't find it any more appealing to watch Moore pontificate than Limbaugh. My mom accused me of being a closet conservative.

Posted by: Girlnone at September 24, 2008 10:44 AM

I think I'm starting to see the connection here. Up top there we have Michael Moore flashing an 'L' hand sign, which I assume represents the left (or is he just pointing to heaven?); Dustin's got his fingers crossed for Obama, even as he claims he's a "terrible political commentator;" and he moves the entire Pajiba column... to the LEFT!

Not very subtle there, Mr. Rowles. However, we do need more sneaky, underhanded Dems if we're to keep up with all the sneaky, underhanded Repugs, so I'm in your corner, sir.

Posted by: TMax at September 24, 2008 10:46 AM

Difference between Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh: Moore does his research. Limbaugh just spouts off bullshit and fiction in an attempt to rile people up. At least Moore has some (some) honesty behind his ideas. He may be annoying, self-aggrandizing, obnoxious and biased, but there is truth behind what he says.

Posted by: TK at September 24, 2008 10:48 AM

Michael Moore has smelly dog farts.


I am Dirt Bullet Palin, and I approve this message

Posted by: firedmyass at September 24, 2008 10:50 AM

That picture looks Photoshopped.

More cool Catholics? Are you saying the Pope isn't cool? He's like the ex-Nazi German Fonzie. And what about Mel Gibson? You guys remember Lethal Weapon, right? Man...he sure got himself into some craaaazy predicaments.

Posted by: Dave at September 24, 2008 10:51 AM

We need him, we don't have to like him...

Posted by: Pants at September 24, 2008 10:52 AM

Thank you Pants, for summing up my point far more succinctly.

Posted by: TK at September 24, 2008 10:55 AM

Oh, and on a related note:

Weston Buckley III aka Michael Moore, was a speechwriter for the Nixon White House. He became disenchanted after the failed attempt to time travel into the future to kidnap and murder the future president of the United States, James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.
The attempt was made using alien technology believed to have been captured at Roswell. After an altercation with Pat Buchanan he resigned his post and swore revenge.

TRUE. STORY.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 10:56 AM

BarbadoSlim - the bailout is not financed by your tax money. It's financed by the sale of government bonds. Further, capitalistic greed was only one cause of this problem. The Congress passed legislation that required lenders to loan money to certain demographic groups in order to get tax breaks and other kickbacks. That required sub-prime loans because the credit of these lenders was poor. That got the ball rolling. Greed tookover from there.

If you're going to rail on capitalism, at least get your shit straight.

Posted by: ChrisDE at September 24, 2008 11:03 AM

Agreed, Pants. The left definitely needs somebody to stir up shit with the right. Our elected officials sure as hell don't do anything. The right has a whole fucking "news" channel plus 90% of AM talk radio. Mumble mumble...fuckin' Pelosi sayin' she won't consider impeachment for Bush & Co....mumble mumble.

Has anybody seen the NRA ads on TV? Just a bunch of typical bullshit implying that if Obama's elected, he'll somehow magically sneak into every American's house and take their guns away.

Posted by: Dave at September 24, 2008 11:04 AM

BSlim, that is some straight up Scientology shit right there. A+.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 11:09 AM

"...It's financed by the sale of government bonds."
If you're going to rail on capitalism, at least get your shit straight.

Posted by: ChrisDE at September 24, 2008 11:03 AM
------------------------------------------------

A government bond is a bond that is guaranteed by TAXES or by the treasury of the national/state/municipality government that issues it, i.e. the folks who live there have to pay, eventually.

How about YOU get your shit together sport. I'm not "railing" against capitalism I'm railing against alleged "capitalists" taking MY MONEY.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 11:11 AM

Oh, and you stupid motherfuckers have an excuse for just about everything don't you.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 11:12 AM

(...) if Obama's elected, he'll somehow magically sneak into every American's house and take their guns away.

Would that be a bad thing?

Seriously, though, I think Chris Rock had it right all along. Bullet control is the answer.

Posted by: Sofía at September 24, 2008 11:17 AM

Then again, it could just be a wash between the youth who aren't getting polled actually voting and the closet racist fucks who say they'll vote for Obama but then get overpowered by fear of the black man once they're in the voting booth.

Yep. That's exactly it. If you're not a supported of Obama, it's because you're a racist or a fascist. It's not because he's inexperienced, speaks solely in soundbites, has little in the way of solid policies, has flip-flopped on key issues since the primaries or picked a running mate who is not only a black hole of charisma-less space but is also basically an acknowledgement that Obama himself isn't qualified to do the job on his own. Nope, it's closet racism that'll cost Obama the race. Christ, it makes me kinda ill when Fox and the right-wing nutjobs throw out bigoted and disparaging remarks about anyone whose political views don't align with theirs, but that doesn't make it any better when Democratic supporters do the same.

As for youth voters, it pains me to say this (being very much on the left-wing side of things) but (*shudder*) I agree with Some Guy. If your main hope of winning is the youth vote, then you're screwed. I was 20 for my last general election, and even though my group of friends skews towards the nerdy, the political and college debaters, I'd still say only about 40-50% of them voted; and hell, that's good for most of my peer group. Teenagers and people in their early 20s are great for joining Facebook groups and watching catchy YouTube videos. When crunch time comes, the amount who actually come and vote will be significantly less. It's depressing, but it's something of an inevitability, and the website that grouches periodically about "Generation Douchebag" and complains that we don't care about anything can't really be too surprised when its self-fulfilling prophecies get...well, self-fulfilled.

Gah. Oh, that felt good. I'm sorry - I've pretty much stayed out of the political comment threads until now, but I've had food poisoning (and possibly some alcohol poisoning too) since fucking Monday and it feels like someone's trying to inflate a damn zeppelin in my lower intestine, and typing this mini-rant is basically the equivalent in terms of stress relief of me farting out a lung. So please feel free to ignore it and carry on if you disagree. I'll be popping Gaviscon and praying for a quick and painless death.

Posted by: Shay at September 24, 2008 11:19 AM

ChrisDE, please, oh please tell me that the DE after your name does not mean that you're from Delaware. We have enough problems defending some of the shit Biden says without bringing more attention to ourselves. Hey, he's an obnoxious, loud mouthed blowhard, but he's our obnoxious, loud-mouthed blowhard, and, most of the time, he knows his shit. Anyway, if you want to spout rascist bullshit, I hear that they haven't had to delete a fucked up comment on www.delawareonline.com in over an hour. Here's your chance.

Posted by: slower lower at September 24, 2008 11:21 AM

Speaking of James Earl "Jimmy" Carter Jr.:

"most boneheaded president of all time"

I notice that whatever president happens to be in office is inevitably portrayed by the other side as "the worst president ever." I shrug at that. It's half propaganda and half ignorance of history.

Besides, I don't know about "all time." Who does? None of us was around for the administration of Andrew Johnson (shaddup! I was NOT!), but I was around and sentient for ...

Jimmy Carter.

Let me first say that I think Jimmy is a great guy as a human being. I'm sure even though I'm a fiscal conservative and a social libertarian that I'd love to have Jimmy for a neighbor, especially if I needed to do any work on the house.

However ... here's a guy who came in on the heels of one of the worst scandals in the history of the country. It's hard to imagine this if you didn't live through it, and since we've had so many other scandals in the interim, but: A president of the United States obstructed justice, was about to be impeached, and QUIT. Not only that, but his vice president had had to go under similar circumstances.

Wrap your brain around that a minute. Nothing like it had ever happened, nothing has since.

On the heels of this, Nixon's successor (who drew not a single vote for president or even vice president) pardons him, setting off another uproar, and is summarily dumped by the electorate two years later for a guy who was going to bring a breath of fresh air, of honesty and integrity and principle to the White House.

I mean seriously, if Carter was even remotely a competent president, the Democrats should have owned the White House for the next 20 years. There never would have/should have been a Reagan administration (for better or worse, depending on which side of the aisle you're on), maybe even a Bush I.

And Jimmy blew it. He blew it big. He was such a bad president (I won't go into all the details of why *cough Iranian hostage crisis just for one cough* you can look them up) that just six years after Watergate he got thrown out on his ass for a Hollywood actor.

Think about THAT one for awhile.

Bob Barr '08

Posted by: bucdaddy at September 24, 2008 11:25 AM

I will confess that I, a registered Republican since age 18, voted for Kerry in 2004 because I knew that four more years of That Man would do bad things to the country (and yes, I hate being right). But while I'd watch TV and see print photos of Kerry I kept asking myself, "Who does this guy look like? I've seen him before."

Last week I was re-re-re-reading Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72 by Hunter S. Thompson, and it dawned on me.

Kerry was the virtual reincarnation of Edmund Muskie, who was the touted "front-runner" before fading hard in the primaries.

Big Ed and Big John had the same problem - they were essentially colorless and didn't connect with the voters, while Bush seemed to be at best a harmless idiot. Of course we also have learned (again, the hard way) that "Fools are more to be feared than villains."

Posted by: The Wanderer at September 24, 2008 11:25 AM

The now retired Archbishop of Washington DC, Theodore McCarrick is the coolest Catholic alive. He has steadfastly opposed those bishops who want to deny communion to politicians who are pro-choice. His guidance on "voting as a Catholic" is to consider "family rights, the right to education, the right to take care of the poor, the right of migrants."
Of course, he holds two masters degrees, a doctorate and speaks seven languages fluently, so I'll just sit back and wait for the "elitist" comments to roll in.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 24, 2008 11:26 AM

Yep. That's exactly it. If you're not a supported of Obama, it's because you're a racist or a fascist.

Shay, I should have explained. I'm not talking about all McCain supporters, I'm talking about people who go on record as being for Obama because they agree with his policies for the most part, but secretly aren't ready to vote for a black man. It's not everyone, it's a small percentage - but its concentrated primarily in rustbelt swing states and blue-collar white men who are traditionally democratic.

And not to be a bitch about it, but you can't tell me that race isn't an issue in this election. Because that's fucking stupid - this is America. Race is always an issue.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 11:27 AM

(...) if Obama's elected, he'll somehow magically sneak into every American's house and take their guns away.

Would that be a bad thing?

Seriously, though, I think Chris Rock had it right all along. Bullet control is the answer.

Posted by: Sofía at September 24, 2008 11:17 AM

I'm not saying that would be a bad thing, just that there's no way it would ever be able to happen. Unfortunately, there are people that seem to believe if any Democrats get elected, they'll lose their precious gun(s).

Posted by: Dave at September 24, 2008 11:31 AM

B-Slim-
I like your style.

Moore is needed, if only to get people discussing issues and debating. He is a great vehicle for spreading ideas, but I do believe that it is OUR responsibility to think critically about his work. Of course, that goes for everything. Oh I know! Let's all just be really smart!

Posted by: Just Amanda at September 24, 2008 11:32 AM

Em, Shay:

There have been five polls by respected polling groups that have demonstrated that race is a significant factor in who people will vote for this this election and the significance passes the standard margin of error. These are people who have admitted openly Obama's colour is an issue of concern for them. You have absolutely no idea how much the "fear of the angry black man" is ingrained in a certain age group in this country and that's before you even get to the ignorant redneck demographic.
Where do you get off with the "inexperienced" line again? The guy has been involved in politics in a major state and nationally for over 15 years. He has been a member of several critical committees in the Senate. He is a legal expert at a time when the US constitution is under significant threat. Would you like a link to his very solid policies or do you just want to spew out your own soundbites? Where the fuck are you getting your news from?

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 24, 2008 11:34 AM

Regardless what anyone's got to say about either candidate, NOBODY IS GOING TO BE RIGHT OR WRONG. So pull your heads out of your collective asses. For every barb against McCain, I can pull one against Obama. For every error Obama has made while speaking, I can pull one from McCain. For every Moore, there's a Hannity. Who gives a shit if it's a lady who thinks seeing Russia from her backyard means something, if it's an African American who occasionally drops the race card, or if it's a goddamed dinosaur who can't raise his arms above his head - Is anyone else getting fucking tired of hearing all the slander bullshit? How about stating why you're going to vote for who you're going to vote for, as opposed to trying to destroy the other party? You like McCain/Obama? Fantastic. How about telling me why without making dipshit remarks about the other party. As far as Republicans viewing the site, how about dropping the "you people" bullshit? If you don't like the place, take a fucking hike. I'm not over on O'Reilly's site trying to insult the commenters... Seriously, you wanna have a political conversation, try a little goddamed tact and try to do so with a little intelligence as opposed to schoolyard name calling...

Posted by: Skittimus Maximus at September 24, 2008 11:35 AM

"Seriously, though, I think Chris Rock had it right all along. Bullet control is the answer."

"'In the words of H.L. Mencken . . . '"however, I believe it was Andy Griffith's eyedee before it Chris'.

Posted by: Neocleo at September 24, 2008 11:37 AM

"...or if it's a goddamed dinosaur who can't raise his arms above his head..."

I suppose that might have been a tad hypocritical... My bad.

Posted by: Skittimus Maximus at September 24, 2008 11:40 AM

I was waiting for PissBoy, since he could say it in a much more entertaining fashion, but here is the local take on Biden. He's like your uncle who drinks six Tanqueray martinis before Thanksgiving dinner. Just as Grandma sets the turkey on the table, he booms, "Wow, Mom, you got fat as shit." Yeah, dickhead, we all noticed, but way to kill the mood just as something good was about to happen. Except, of course, that Biden is drunk on the sound of his own voice.

Posted by: slower lower at September 24, 2008 11:47 AM

Yeah Skitt, I can only imagine the hordes of Tyrannosaurs who are weeping after reading your remark. You insensitive bastard.

Posted by: Kolby at September 24, 2008 11:48 AM

I'm with Skitts. I'm tired of the slander from both sides. And if you are too, look to third and fourth and fifth parties and give them some support. The biggest part of the problem is that both major parties don't feel the electorate calling them to heel. If a third of us voted for the Libs or the Greens or somebody else, maybe they'd get the message.

Bob Barr '08

(And I voted for Alan Keyes in the primary, bitches, so I got your racism right here.)

Posted by: bucdaddy at September 24, 2008 11:49 AM

To follow on Skits lead:

Obama should be given a chance because:

1. Will at least try to get the USA back on a saner Foreign Policy course, seriously folks we just cannot possibly continue on this course.
2. Is at least willing to try to do something about the sorry ass state of health care for anyone who is not rich.
3. Will not give Social Security to some "Monorail" salesmen. Are people REEEAALLLYYY even considering gambling their only safety net on some stock market based scheme?

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 11:51 AM

Keith Malley of Keith and the Girl had a great idea. How about we put Jesus on the ballots, and then for everyone who votes for him, we throw their ballots away?

Posted by: Lucas at September 24, 2008 12:01 PM

Maybe this multi-thread idea was a good one. Could you imagine trying to hold a good debate about American Politics in the same thread as copious tales of dwarf-fucking? It took me long enough but I'm finally on board with this Rowles fellow's crazy ideas.

Posted by: Optimus Rhyme at September 24, 2008 12:08 PM

The biggest part of the problem is that both major parties don't feel the electorate calling them to heel.

Amen, bucdaddy, amen. How unfortunate that so many feel they have to vote for the lesser of two evils because voting by their conscience will result in taking votes away from the two major party candidates (and thereby result in the greater of the two evils taking office).

The only thing more unfortunate is how few people vote at all. (Actually, the only thing even more unfortunate than both of these things is that there are, in fact, people who will vote against Obama because he's Black, Palin because she's a woman, McCain because he's a dinosaur... policies are what counts, people, not looks.)

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at September 24, 2008 12:13 PM

Et tu, Rowles?

Posted by: Pookie at September 24, 2008 12:23 PM

Knife Pile - the system in this country is set up specifically to allow the fewest number of votes to be cast. Think about it - Election Day is on a Tuesday (workday), we don't have universal suffrage, and most states have annoying to impossible registration processes. In many other "developed" countries, Election Day is either a holiday or takes place on a weekend, and people are automatically registered to vote when they reach the appropriate age. It's no wonder other nations have such high turnouts.

Posted by: Kolby at September 24, 2008 12:24 PM

For ladies in China, the most celebrated holiday is Erection Day!

I'm sorry...

Posted by: Skittimus Maximus at September 24, 2008 12:26 PM

[snort]

Posted by: Stella at September 24, 2008 12:55 PM

It is a fucking travesty that so many Americans don't vote, especially when said Americans are a) of color b) women or c) women of color.

PEOPLE DIDN'T FUCKING SACRIFICE THEIR OPPORTUNITIES AND THEIR REPUTATIONS AND THEIR FUCKING LIVES JUST SO YOU COULD SIT HOME ON ELECTION DAY AND WHINE LIKE A PETULANT FUCKING FIVE-YEAR-OLD ABOUT HOW THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE NO CANDIDATE AGREES WITH YOU 1000%.

Frankly, I'd love to adapt Australia's mandatory voting law for the US. However, in my version, every non-voter would be smacked upside the head by a recently-naturalized citizen while a big-voiced disabled veteran screams "what the fuck is wrong with you?!" in the non-voter's cowardly face.

Posted by: jeem at September 24, 2008 1:06 PM

Jeem:

I would apply a "three strikes you're out" rule. You get six years after becoming eligible to vote: that'll cover one presidential election and two mid-terms. If you don't vote in them, that's it, you're struck off the voter registry.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 24, 2008 1:09 PM

Kolby, you are correct that other nations hold elections on weekends or holidays. I'm not sure if automatic voter registration would work, though; we require young men to register for the draft at age 18 but many still don't.

Posted by: jeem at September 24, 2008 1:10 PM

Are there any "right leaning", let alone actual "conservatives" that frequent this site beside me? Can I get a roll call? ...Is that crickets I hear? Look there went a tumbleweed...

Posted by: ganesh at September 24, 2008 1:11 PM

If John kerry = charisma of a "wet fart"

then Barack Obama= the physical embodiment of "jazz hands"

Posted by: Just Kyle at September 24, 2008 1:19 PM

You have to admit the man makes an impact.

...and not just when he sits down! *ba-doom ching!*

I apologize. I just can't help myself sometimes.

Posted by: popejenn at September 24, 2008 1:33 PM

Posted by: Cindy at September 24, 2008 1:38 PM

"The following review is rife with biased political opinion. Don't like it? Go fuck yourself."

Yeah, fuck you too, asshole. Geez, what ever happened to Pajiba?! And what's with all the Michael Moore hating? Back then, when he took on Bush, most of you hated him, called him a big fat idiot and now everybody is hitting on Bush and everyone defending him looks like a complete idiot. Yet, even as Moore turned out to have a point, you just keep on bashing him. And since when became insulting someone because of his body size legitimate?

Posted by: Arthur Dent at September 24, 2008 1:42 PM

heh... something I always get really annoyed about is that I have, at most of the jobs I've held where there were holidays, always had off for Veteran's Day but never Election Day. I'm not a veteran, but I am a voter... wouldn't it make more sense the other way around?

P.S. before anyone gets in a snit, I am not disparaging veterans; I've nothing but the utmost respect for them. I just think it's silly to not make Election day a Federal holiday, but, as Kolby says, the system in this country is set up specifically to allow the fewest number of votes to be cast.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at September 24, 2008 1:48 PM

As someone who doesn't care for liberal ideology, I love Michael Moore. Nothing like having a loud-mouth, self-aggrandizing shithead on the other side of the fence to put the stink on your opponents. Now if I could just find a way to shut up people like Rowles who have a sense of humor about things and understand that successful arguing is about convincing people of your position, not about getting the biggest cheers from your people and boos from your opponents.

Btw, I feel so MFing disenfranchised in this election. When is someone going to start a party for people with a lick of economic sense who don't care what their neighbors do in their free time... AND has a snowball's chance in hell of getting someone elected?

You know what, it won't happen. The corporations aren't interested in a free world because they like their markets nice and predictable and a stable price on their politicians. The middle and lower classes won't do it because they like being able to vote themselves stuff for "free." Ugh. This country is over.

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 2:01 PM

I tried. I really tried to say out of this. But, well, brace yourselves, my pretties.

Ahem . . .

I've been reading The Federalist Papers lately. It's a fascinating counterpoint to the current machinations. It is really an operating handbook, trying to allow a government of mostly free people to endure - that's the right word, "endure" - in the face of human nature.

I'm with bucdaddy on this one

The biggest part of the problem is that both major parties don't feel the electorate calling them to heel.

As for the last several elections, I blame the democratic party. How, exactly, does a sitting vice president lose (lose, dammit - the whining is why you keep losing) to Shrub? How is an an election four years later even close? How is this campaign, these particular four years after that even close?

Pointlessly, I will school you:

- Working the system is part of the game. If you can't work the system enough to get your asses elected, you won't be able to work it enough to get any damn thing done. (In point - the feckless congress of the last two years.)

- It's a diverse country. Not rainbow-diverse full of multi-colored people who all think alike (Although that too, the rainbow part. I'm a super intelligent shade of blue, myself.) but people who think, and experience differently than you do. Dueling bases and litmus-issue politics does not a polity make. If you're going to play that game, get comfortable with the long knives. Buy you're not - wimps.

- Grasping power is inherently risky. It sets you up to fail, draws attention, etc. The current administration has been playing to your amateur, highs chool-musical and class president training -wheel politicking since the campaign 8 years ago. Grow a pair and call shenanigans. Where's the impeachment proceeding - any one of them? Where's the "no" vote on . . . god there are too many. Start with telco immunity. Where's the speeches, starting in October of '01, talking about what we *are*, which is not this small, frightened, miserly bunch of wimps willing to toss the results of 400+ years of post-enlightenment and classically liberal thinking on the pyre of "protecting" us from some mostly ineffective, medievalist whack-jobs. We spent 40+ years in the cross-hairs of a regime with nukes, that had built its own empire by invasion and occupation, happy to announce their goal "We will bury you.", without one tenth the possibly unrecoverable destruction to our basic institutions and sense of who we are. Now, some buildings get blown up (Horrific, yes. Tragic, yes. Unacceptable, hell yes.) and we're tossing who we are. Actually we're letting the Sith-Lord homunculus on Shrub's shoulder usher in the new empire.

- It's a diverse country. You might want to look long and hard at what you reject vs. trying to understand and accommodate. I hunt, or did. It's pretty normal in large parts of the country. You might want to try to understand why. I've had a circuitous path through my higher education. On the other hand, I've got a small list of achievements y'all would find compelling. What, we are not the nation of strivers? Demand only clean ascents and you'll get the monied and connected, as you have. (Go read The Man In the Arena then show me where St. Barrack I put that much substance into anything past his convention keynote, back in the day. Maybe his analysis of race relations. Maybe.) Be very careful what you try to impose on others by force of law. It tends to mobilize them when they don't agree.

- It's realpolitic, babies. "You" are mobilizing "their" base in a way that McCain never could, and you just can't help yourselves. The folks who will decide this election are as concerned with McCain as you. BUT you are driving them into his campaign by your very own immoderation. Every time you ding Palin for her recent child or her daughter's you are recruiting for them. Does "abortion rights" mean it's a choice, or really any pregnancy before a career is well established should, perhaps must be aborted. You've opened that door wide, people. Room for your beliefs or everybody has to believe as you do? Pick an issue - every single one of them, when you go apeshit crazy you mobilize their base and alienate the undecideds. Why not figure out what diversity - ideas not colors - you can live with and shut up about that stuff. But remember every time there's a choice you just can't stand, you recruit for the other side.

So grow a pair and step up. Take a position, and have the strength to be inclusive. Invite the country to do what's right. This is Shrub's biggest mistake in actually solving the Islamist problem - enlist us in a goal worth living up to vs. this well-beyond-the-Soviets big brother, imperialist crap. Invite the world to join us. Obama has the rhetorical skills but I don't hear him standing up on this one either. Quite the opposite, in fact. All those dragnet
surveillance powers were fine once he thought he'd be the one wielding them. Sigh. He's perfectly positioned to do this one right - it's a rights issue, a civil rights issue, as in civil rights for all of us regardless of entitlement class. Shrub and the Sith-homunculus are are destroying the rights - the civil agreement to respect each other that is the only consistent core to this country, really. And you're letting them. And your candidate is perfectly positioned, by skills and frankly his race and personal yistory, to make this case and call us to be our better selves. And he's busy pandering, of course.

So, here you are, in 2008, running against a guy who can't get elected again, mobilizing the other guy's base, and alienating the undecided who are otherwise predisposed to your cause. You learned not a thing from the last 8 or 10 rounds of debacles. Bush II isn't running people, so get over it.

Madison / Jefferson '08

Posted by: Bierce "Package Wichita" Ambrose at September 24, 2008 2:22 PM

The following is a bit long winded, but all the facts are true. Please take to the time to read and then somehow pass this on to all the mindless drones who think Michael Moore is a "genius". It is a true testament to the Democratic party.

Profile In Incompetence: The Worst President In American History
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Jimmy Carter became our 39th president at the young age of 52. He was a one-term governor from Plains, GA, where he managed the family peanut farm and taught Sunday school. He was also a graduate of the Naval Academy and served seven years in the Navy, leaving as a lieutenant.

He came to power in the aftermath of the Vietnam War and the resignation of President Nixon. The public wanted change and someone new, and Carter was an ambitious, hands-on politician who promised better days. As good as his intentions were, however, the things he tried were not successful. In fact, he created far more serious problems than he ever solved.

The centerpiece of Carter's foreign policy was human rights, and he did achieve one noble success--a peace treaty between Egypt's Anwar Sadat and Israel's Menachem Begin.

Unfortunately, that later led to Sadat's assassination at the hands of Muslim radicals.

Many people felt Carter was a good man who worked hard and meant well. But he was naive and incompetent in handling the enormous burdens and complex challenges of being president.

He wrongly believed Americans had an "inordinate fear of communism," so he lifted travel bans to Cuba, North Vietnam and Cambodia and pardoned draft evaders. He also stopped B-1 bomber production and gave away our strategically located Panama Canal.

His most damaging miscalculation was the withdrawal of U.S. support for the Shah of Iran, a strong and longtime military ally. Carter objected to the Shah's alleged mistreatment of imprisoned Soviet spies who were working to overthrow Iran's government. He thought the exiled Ayatollah Khomeini, being a religious man, would make a fairer leader.

Having lost U.S. support, the Shah was overthrown, the Ayatollah returned, Iran was declared an Islamic nation and Palestinian hit men were hired to eliminate opposition.

The Ayatollah then introduced the idea of suicide bombers to the Palestine Liberation Organization, paying $35,000 to PLO families whose young people were brainwashed to kill as many Israelis as possible by blowing themselves up in crowded shopping areas.

Next, the Ayatollah used Iran's oil wealth to create, train and finance a new terrorist organization, Hezbollah, which later would attack Israel in 2006.

In November 1979, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and other Iranians stormed the U.S. embassy in Tehran and took 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. Not until six months into the ordeal did Carter attempt a rescue. But the mission, using just six Navy helicopters, was poorly executed. Three of the copters were disabled or lost in sandstorms. (Pilots weren't allowed to meet with weather forecasters because someone in authority worried about security.) Five airmen and three Marines lost their lives.

So, due to overconfidence, inexperience and poor judgment, Carter undermined and lost a strong ally, Iran, that today aggressively threatens the U.S., Israel and the rest of the world with nuclear weapons.

But that's not all. After Carter met for the first time with Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev, the USSR promptly invaded Afghanistan. Carter, ever the naive appeaser, was shocked. "I can't believe the Russians lied to me," he said.

The invasion attracted a 23-year-old Saudi named Osama bin Laden to Afghanistan to recruit Muslim fighters and raise money for an anti-Soviet jihad. Part of that group eventually became al-Qaida, a terrorist organization that would declare war on America several times between 1996 and 1998 before attacking us on 9/11, killing more Americans than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

On Carter's watch, the Soviet Union went on an unrestrained rampage in which it took over not only Afghanistan, but also Ethiopia, South Yemen, Angola, Cambodia, Mozambique, Grenada and Nicaragua.

In spite of this, Carter's last defense budget proposed spending 45% below pre-Vietnam levels for fighter aircraft, 75% for ships, 83% for attack submarines and 90% for helicopters.

Years later, as a civilian, Carter negotiated a peace agreement with North Korea to keep that communist country from developing nuclear weapons. He also convinced President Clinton and Secretary of State Madeleine Albright to go along with it. But the signed piece of paper proved worthless. The North Koreans deceived Carter and instead used our money, incentives and technical equipment to build nuclear weapons and pose the threat we face today.

Thus did Carter unwittingly become our Neville Chamberlain, creating with his well-intended but inept, unrealistic and gullible actions the very conditions that led to the three most dangerous security threats we face today: Iran, al-Qaida and North Korea.

On the domestic side, Carter gave us inflation of 15%, the highest in 34 years; interest rates of 21%, the highest in 115 years; and a severe energy crisis with lines around the block at gas stations nationwide.

In 1977, Carter, along with a Democrat Congress, created a worthy project with noble intentions--the Community Reinvestment Act. Over strong industry objections, it mandated that all banks meet the credit needs of their entire communities.

In 1995, President Clinton imposed even stronger regulations and performance tests that coerced banks to substantially increase loans to low-income, poverty-area borrowers or face fines or possible restrictions on expansion. These revisions allowed for securitization of CRA loans containing subprime mortgages.

By 1997, good loans were bundled with poor ones and sold as prime packages to institutions here and abroad. That shifted risk from the loan originators, freeing banks to begin pyramiding and make more of these profitable subprime products.

Under two young, well-intended presidents, therefore, big-government plans and mandates played a significant role in the current subprime mortgage mess and its catastrophic consequences for the U.S. and international economies.

Hardest-hit by the mortgage foreclosures have been the citizens that Democrats always claim to help most--inner-city residents who fell victim to low or no down payment schemes, unexpected adjustable rates, deceptive loan applications and commission-hungry salespeople.

Now we're having to bail out at huge cost Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the very agencies that were supposed to stabilize the system. In time, this should improve the situation. But the party of Carter and Clinton that midwifed our mortgage mess now wants to be trusted to take over and have the government run our entire system of health care!

Posted by: David at September 24, 2008 2:22 PM

Well put, David.

Posted by: ganesh at September 24, 2008 2:36 PM

Em, David

Note your source "The Investor's Business Daily", not exactly what ypu'd call a publication that can be objective on the current economic crisis or open to liberal views. In fact, we might say it's a publication with a very specific agenda. How about looking through the spin of that article a little and trying again.
Here are a few clues to get you started: Iraqi arms scandal, origins of Sadat's extreme unpopularity in Egypt way before the peace treaty, biggest supporters of the Afghani resistance fighters. I'll see you back here when you've read some information written by historians not Wall St. Republicans.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 24, 2008 2:39 PM

You could all still move to Canada. Our economy isn't nearly as bad, lots of jobs (not of the Mc variety) and our government is not proposing to spend $2000.00 per person to bail out gluttonous private companies.

But you have to learn the metric system or they turn you back at the border.

Posted by: Admin11 at September 24, 2008 2:41 PM

This movie was already done, it was called, So Goes the Nation. It was about the voter turn out in Ohio, which wound up being the deciding state in 2004. It is good and it is really for those that are interested in the grassroots of the American political process.

Dustin, I will disagree, I beieve this movie does matter in today's political landscape. There was a strong belief that 2004 was a slam dunk for Kerry vs. idiot Bush, and some I beieve became complacent. I think this would help to guard against that taking place again. While McCain is not a Bush third term, he is not equipped for the challenges that involve our country today.
This should be an easy win for Barry, but as Spencer Tracy said in, Guess Who is Coming to Dinner, he has a "pigmenation problem" and America is still a racist country today. Obama is also depending on the least reliable voting block in American, the young people. Obama will link this off his campaign site to motivate this block to vote in November.

Posted by: richmac at September 24, 2008 2:42 PM

@ David at September 24, 2008 2:22 PM

I feel like I just got forwarded an email from my grandpa.

No one is saying that Democrats in office didn't make mistakes. But forcing lenders to offer loans to low-income buyers wouldn't have brought on the collapse of the industry unless it was coupled with massive deregulation of the industry.

And by the way, but can we all just fucking stop with the 'government run healthcare will bring on the apocalypse' bullshit? Do you know who runs the best health insurance program in the nation? Medicare, fuckers. That's who.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 2:47 PM

Paddydog:
I'm not sure I understand how whatever bias the source might have would affect the truth of the facts quoted. If some of them are untrue, by all means say so, or if pieces of the puzzle are missing, fill them in, but (at least as far as the subprime issues are concerned), David has presented some compelling evidence that it was regulation, rather than a lack thereof, which got us into this mess.

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 2:50 PM

How about stating why you're going to vote for who you're going to vote for, as opposed to trying to destroy the other party?

I'm voting Obama for the following reasons, and then some:
1) To keep my right to choose.
2) To keep SCOTUS somewhat balanced.
3) To get the troops out of Iraq a.s.a.p.
4) To get most/all Americans health insurance.
5) To get us on the right track to getting off oil, and to better energy sources.
6) To restore our civil liberties.

Posted by: Cindy at September 24, 2008 2:50 PM

Re: Voter turnout, inconvenient Election schedule:

In Oregon we have had mail in ballot elections for some years now and we have extremely high voter turnout. I am not even sure if we have physical polling stations anymore. They seem as anachronistic as the Blue Police Box Tardis. The system has worked very well and provides a paper trail for recounts. Also, people who are firmly made up in their decisions can mail in their ballots whenever they like and the count goes much faster. No results are made public until election day (just like everywhere else) so people who like to wait until the actual day of to mail or drop of their ballots at post offices or drop sites are not influenced one way or another.
Really, having lived in this system for years and being a third generation absentee ballot voter even before this system was enacted, the idea of trying to get a good result that relies on people going out of their way to vote seems archaic and unrealistic.

IMHO

Posted by: Lindsey at September 24, 2008 2:57 PM

Having seen Sicko, I can say that M.M. was a little objective on his assessment of the Canadian medical system. Most things are free however many drugs and treatments are not. This is because its run by both Federal and Provincial Governments. The Feds distribute money and the Province decided where to spend it and how much more to add.

The drawback is that healthcare is now completely reliant on budgets. X dollars = y services. Ergo if you need surgery for an ailment that is non-life threatening, like a knee replacement, you could wait for 4-5 years.

But when you do get the surgery it is free. The biggest advantage of universal health care is that I don't have to worry about fighting with my insurance company to pay the bill or filing bankruptcy to try and avoid the bill if they won't pay. If my family or I are sick, we get treatment.

Posted by: Admin11 at September 24, 2008 2:57 PM

Posted by: David at September 24, 2008 2:22 PM

Well put, David.

Posted by: ganesh at September 24, 2008 2:36 PM

-------------------------------------------------

You two worthless shitheads are no even deserving of a response. Against my better judgment, I'll point out the fact that Clinton signed LEGISLATION that was meant to remove barriers put in place during the DEPRESSION by DEMOCRATS.
That legislation was authored by NONE OTHER than conservative spooge fantasy boy Phil Gramm (try and guess who he's been advising lately?)and PASSED BY A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.

WHO COME YOU DIDN'T WRITE THAT?

WHY DID YOU LEAVE THAT OUT?

You are all a bunch of liars, torturers and murderers.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 2:57 PM

"We lost because we weren't running for anything; we were running against someone. And it takes a spectacularly lousy candidate to lose against the least popular, most boneheaded president of all time (with due respect to Andrew Johnson)." --Dustin

Dustin, democrats are still running against Bush by saying no to McBush. Buchanan the president before Lincoln, is the worst followed by Bush 43, Carter and Johnson.

Posted by: richmac at September 24, 2008 2:58 PM

Moore:"documentary" as Limbaugh:"News".

So it all evens out.

Posted by: madmaxmedia at September 24, 2008 3:06 PM

Kolby, those late 20s people are still living at home...just joking.

Hey Slim, I love ya...but the reason David did not write that is because Clinton's own Secretary of the Treasury, said Graham's legislation did not have a thing to do with this situation. Don't forget who is advising Obama...an old CEO of Freddie or Fannie who collected $90 million worth of salary over 6 years and is getting $1 million/year for life. And another former higher-up was on Obama's committee for VP.

Both parties are deeply flawed. I am with bucdaddy, we need a third party for the American people, not the financers of our downfall.

Posted by: richmac at September 24, 2008 3:07 PM

Eep:

Citing facts out of context and putting a decidedly anti-liberal slant on them is exactly how bias is shown in an article such as we have above. Here's an example:
The article claims that Carter's promotion of a treaty between Israel and Egypt led to Sadat's assassination at the hands of Muslim extremists. Sadat was assassinated by a Muslim group but only after he drove the Egyptian economy into the ground, introduced significant censorship of the media, jailed his opponents, crafted and passed the infamous Law of Shame which criminally punished "advocating any doctrine that implies negation of divine teaching," "allowing children or youth to go astray by advocating the repudiation of popular, religious, moral, or national values or by setting a bad example in a public place," and "broadcasting or publishing gross or scurrilous words or pictures that could offend public sensibilities or undermine the dignity of the state."
Offenders could be barred from public life or from engaging in economic activity or managing their own property; they could be condemned to internal exile or prohibited from leaving the country (sound familiar? Hitler had a similar law).
He also perpetrated voter fraud: The Law of Shame was approved in a referendum by 98.56 percent of the electorate. This was remarkable since there was widespread opposition to the law.
In 1980, an impressive, non-partisan body of citizens charged Sadat with superseding his own constitution.
It was after all this that he was assassinated but David's source would have you believe that Carter practically pulled the trigger by trying to forge some peace in the Middle East.
Context is the most important aspect of a "fact".

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 24, 2008 3:14 PM

Why is it that it predominatly the more left leaning folks on this site use the most foul language and insults when referring to their opposition?

Posted by: Ganesh at September 24, 2008 3:16 PM

Ganesh

Because its fucking fun.

Posted by: Admin11 at September 24, 2008 3:21 PM

Because Ganesh, every time we enter the booth and put a check mark next to a Republican candidate, we are lying to, torturing and murdering innocents. Man up dog.

Posted by: Weck at September 24, 2008 3:24 PM

By the way, I've just been informed that Dubya is going to appear on prime time T.V. to explain this here economic bailout thing to the American people. It is said that he will also explain why you need it.

I can't wait.

Posted by: Admin11 at September 24, 2008 3:24 PM

Ganesh, we insult you because you insist on putting up bullshit as argument, and then get all indignant about our fucking language when we call you out on it.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 3:24 PM

richmac, do you mean Andrew Johnson or Lyndon Baines Johnson as the fourth-worst President?

Posted by: jeem at September 24, 2008 3:32 PM

Yeah, that's about what I figured.

I didn't post any "facts" or "arguments" I just asked a question about what I percieved.

The vitriol is out of control. I can't imagine what will become of you folks if Obama loses.

Posted by: Ganesh at September 24, 2008 3:40 PM

Posted by: richmac at September 24, 2008 3:07 PM

I love you too buddy, but he should have, don't matter who said what:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

he should have again:

http://townhall.com/columnists/RichLowry/2008/09/22/is_phil_gramm_to_blame

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 3:40 PM

Michael Moore is NOT a documentary film maker. He is a propagandist. A documentary is supposed to be an objective look at a particular subject without regard to filmmakers own feelings. A true documentary lets the facts speak for themselves and lets the viewer form his own opinion. It doesn't try to shove the filmmakers views down the viewers throat and tell them what to think.

In his own mind, Michael Moore is telling the truth in his "documentaries". Because if you take bits and pieces of truth and put them all together to make it look like someone said or did something they didn't actually say or do, it makes the pieced together ball of truths true. Right? No, it makes it a fucking lie.

Michael Moore is a fat, guzzle-chin, lying, piece of shit. And he's just as bad as the people he purportedly loathes so much.

Posted by: RAT at September 24, 2008 3:49 PM

Posted by: RAT at September 24, 2008 3:49 PM

Would you care to give an example of that?

I would present you with two taken from Fahrenheit 9-11
1. He claims members of the the Bin Laden Family was taken out of the USA immediately after the attacks and given expedited exit at airports. True or Not?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml

2. HE claimed that, at the time, very, very few of the people in Congress who voted for the war had offspring serving in the military. True or Not?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/congressmen_with_sons_in_iraq/

How exactly is Michael Moore lying, or is it that you just don't like what he's saying...?

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 4:07 PM

The vitriol is out of control.

Well it is mostly the vitriol of people who've been living in this country in recent times, which haven't been great times in this country. One could say that there's a lot of people who are frustrated with their government, especially if they didn't support those running it in the first place, and they are frustrated with those who would perpetuate the status quo.

I'm just saying there's a logic to it, you know?

Posted by: Jay at September 24, 2008 4:08 PM

A documentary is supposed to be an objective look at a particular subject without regard to filmmakers own feelings. A true documentary lets the facts speak for themselves and lets the viewer form his own opinion.

No, that's what boring documentaries are. Documentarians* need to have an opinion on what they're presenting, otherwise what's the point of making the film? The best documentaries I've seen - Born into Brothels, Invisible Children, Shake Hands with the Devil - all have a very specific viewpoint and message, and that's what makes them so compelling.

I'm not saying Michael Moore is always compelling, or even particularly truthful, but without passion and vision from the filmmaker, often documentaries fall flat.

*May or may not be a real word

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 4:08 PM

Ganesh,

I lean that way economically, as I've posted a couple times.

Government is a strange entity. It takes a dollar out of your left pocket, subtracts a substantial overhead charge, puts the change in your right pocket and expects you to throw a parade.

Posted by: bucdaddy at September 24, 2008 4:08 PM

Should read:


*were taken

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 4:08 PM

How exactly is Michael Moore lying

It's not that he's lying so much as creating a narrative that omits certain elements - mainly the ones where democrats fucked shit up too - much like that fucking cocksucker David* did when he pissed all over poor Jimmy Carter.

*Confidential to David - I don't think you're a cocksucker; I'm sure you're quite lovely. That was more aimed at poor Ganesh, who's delicate sensibilities I seem to be offending left and right.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 4:15 PM

Paddydog-
That's exactly what I was asking you for. I'm sure you're used to people asking for facts as a way of saying "you don't have any facts." You said "The site you got that from is biased," which while interesting and almost certainly true does nothing to expand the context of the facts quoted. Now you've said something much more compelling.

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 4:32 PM

The last election was 2 months before I turned 18 so I didn't have to choose. I'm glad that I actually get to vote this time for someone I like.

Posted by: kelsy at September 24, 2008 4:43 PM

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 4:32 PM


Love the way, you people, adopt a condescending 'tude and assume that we are somehow here to provide YOU with compelling arguments. Pfffft, As if.
Sorry to break it to you but I couldn't care less about convincing your kind about anything. I'm just about sick and tired of having you stealing, lying, persecuting, and basically running roughshod all over the freedoms over which this Republic was founded.

I'm all about calling you folks out on your bullshit.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 4:48 PM

A documentary is supposed to be an objective look at a particular subject without regard to filmmakers own feelings.

Says who? A documentary presents facts - but there is nothing saying a filmmaker can't present those facts in an interesting way - or with a creative eye - or from his viewpoint.

Posted by: Cindy at September 24, 2008 4:50 PM

It kills me how the people who bitch about how, say, a particular politician's "being too popular but only speaking in sound bites" are the same people who can't be arsed to do more than read the headlines on the front page of the (Rupert-Murdoch owned) Washington Post or similar bastion of truthiness. Garbage in, garbage out. The candidates have websites where they have outlined plans. There are blogs of every political stripe -- not just your own -- some of very high quality. Go read stuff -- stuff is being said, but it's not other people's job to take you by the ear and shove your face in it. It's your country, care enough to inform yourself, for God's sake.

Posted by: Mac at September 24, 2008 4:51 PM

Lemme see...how old was I in 2004? Uhm, 26-27? Yeah that sounds about right. Damn that was a long time ago, I was drunk for most of it too!

Posted by: ph at September 24, 2008 4:57 PM

Dear toughguy,

1st, I'm not a Republican, so good for you buying into the us vs. them mentality of the parties. I'm sure there are more than enough of you out there to prevent any meaningful change in the course of this country from bastion of freedom to another government-run clusterfuck.

2nd, Why would you not want to convince me of anything? I vote too. And more to the point, why are you arguing with me if you don't want to convince me of anything? Pulling your own pud with prose? Impressing your friends with your witty repartee? I wasn't condescending to Paddydog, in fact the point of my second post was to make sure it was clear that I had been asking a real question, but I'll happily condescend to dipshittery like this.

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 5:03 PM

Erection... ha...

Posted by: ernesto at September 24, 2008 5:08 PM

Riiiiiiiight, then keep it in mind next time you write your next monograph length post were you blame the collapse of the mortgage industry on the Carter administration.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 5:09 PM

Should read:

*where you blame

And yes, you are a dipshit.

I'll say that *happily*

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 5:11 PM

I didn't write that post.

See, this is what I'm talking about. You just assume that there are two sides and every time that anyone on the other side says something, everybody who doesn't immediately rally to your side believes every word of it. Congratulations on swallowing the hook of the propaganda industry.

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 5:12 PM

"...The following is a bit long winded, but all the facts are true. Please take to the time to read and then somehow pass this on to all the mindless drones..blah blah blah."

That was your prologue was it not?

Nuff said.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 5:18 PM

Sorry it wasn't.

My apologies, and neither was it your post I was addressing.
Apply all my responses to David then.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 5:21 PM

Eep:

I think you and I are after the same thing which is really addressing issues instead of parroting or using sound bites. I appreciate that you asked me for context and I didn't feel condescended to. I welcomed the opportunity. I'd love to go through all of the Investors' Daily piece but I have a job that needs some attention. Unfortunately I believe the problem with the electorate (and not just in the US) is that they just don't have the patience to really sift through issues and read enough diverse material on background to form meaningful opinions.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 24, 2008 5:23 PM

Agree 100%, Paddydog, especially with the problems with the final sentence (and I include myself in that, unfortunately). Cheers for your approach.

I would say that USUALLY when someone says that "X caused this problem," when that problem is on a national economic scale, they have their mind on getting your vote, not on resolving the issue.

BSlim-
I appreciate that. I flew off the handle a bit myself because I was in a scrapping mood, which of course runs a bit counter to what I was preaching. Obviously plenty of work to be done on myself as well.

Posted by: Eep at September 24, 2008 5:36 PM

Documentarians* need to have an opinion on what they're presenting

You beat me to it, Marra (followed by Cindy). Documentaries are arguments for or against something, and most are designed to make the viewer want to do something about the subject at hand. All documentarians* have a point of view which informs their filmmaking.

Hearts and Minds is an excellent documentary about the VietNam war. It purports to be objective, and it has talking heads from both sides; however, the filmmaker's POV comes through loud and clear. I highly recommend it, by the way.

*It's totally a real word.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at September 24, 2008 5:40 PM

Jay, I completely agree your permise and in my opinion, people lose huge credibility when all they do is hurl insults at those that disagree with them.

I'm very frustrated with my government but for different reasons. Bush Has done very little in the way of controling government expansion and spending. I'll reserve comment about congress. Of course there are other reasons but I'll keep it short.

Despite this I still find a way to not just completly cast aside civility and spew hatred and those who disagree with me.

Posted by: Ganesh at September 24, 2008 5:45 PM

*It's totally a real word.

Yes! I mean, I totally could have just opened up a new tab and googled that shit, but fuck it, I'm lazy.

Posted by: Marra at September 24, 2008 5:45 PM

n. pl. doc·u·men·ta·ries
A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

Posted by: Just sayin'... at September 24, 2008 6:06 PM

Good to see that there are a few other right-of-center types who've found Pajiba's movie reviews and pop culture commentary interesting and entertaining enough to sift through the occasional bits of lefty boilerplate one comes across in the articles and (worse so) in the comments. Keep fightin' the good fight, y'all. You are not alone. :)

I, for one, look forward to the eventual "W." review. Here's hoping they give that one to my favorite high-falutin' academic, Ranylt.

Posted by: Gootch at September 24, 2008 6:13 PM

Not addressed to any single person: What I don't understand is if the 21st century is Clinton's fault, isn't that just saying that Bush has been completely ineffectual? That still leaves me wondering what the incentive for four more years is.

Posted by: Jay at September 24, 2008 6:19 PM

Sure, Just sayin'..., there's the dictionary definition for you... but watch a whole bunch of documentaries and see if you can find one that has absolutely no point-of-view whatsoever.

The people who make documentaries have ideological perspectives. They shoot many hours of film, and choose very carefully what parts of all that film they include; they edit them together very carefully to convey what they think is important. Those choices are both influenced by and reflective of their individual feelings about the subject of the film. And, usually, the point of a documentary is to make a point about the subject, one way or the other. This is why I brought up Hearts and Minds in my earlier post- Peter Davis set out believing he was making an objective documentary.

Personally, I don't believe that people are capable of being objective; but, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, and pretty much an opinion. And we all know what they say about opinions...

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at September 24, 2008 7:49 PM

Ms. Beaverplatz,

That's one opinion I can get behind, and that shouldn't insult or degrade any human being; an incapacity to be objective is a part of the human condition.

Posted by: TMax at September 24, 2008 8:17 PM

Clinton was often criticized for being sooo boring droning on and on about economic policy and I have to agree (it's also a reason I voted for him since he obviously had an idea of what to do)

He sure did - take the disastrous Community Reinvestment Act and make it even worse, which is why we're debating a bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac today. Clinton had no fucking idea whatsoever what to do, he just did what he felt was right. And it was dead fucking wrong.

Obama's no better. He's pre-Clintonian politically and more a part of the old-boy network than McCain. He's nothing new, and he offers no hope. He was the wrong candidate for the party and he's going to lose, and thank God for that.

I don't know a single documentary filmmaker, liberal or otherwise, who doesn't regret Michael Moore's existence for making their lives more difficult, and especially for making it harder for them to be taken seriously.

Posted by: Uncle Mikey at September 24, 2008 8:31 PM

BSlim, Nobody can "run roughshod over our freedoms" unless we let them. And we sure do let them. In too many ways we're all too happy to give them up, and we have been for a looong time. Our freedoms? That battle's over, pal.

Here's an idea: Try starting a revolution today, see how many people join you.

"It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster* and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.'"

-- Howard Beale

* -- substitute "laptop"

Posted by: bucdaddy at September 24, 2008 8:51 PM

Hehehehe I really went on a rampage on this thread earlier on, once again, apologies to those who were wrongfully targeted.
The apology extends only to them.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at September 24, 2008 8:55 PM

We have an election coming up here in Canada as well, but it seems that our debates are rather tame in comparison to yours.

Personally I am voting for our 4th, tiny party called the Green Party that is considered a virtual throw-away vote. But I am standing by my choice, in that I am voting with my conscience on their equality policies, than whether or not someone has "charisma".

Apologies for the comma splices, but I haven't had dinner yet and it is nearing 8 p.m.

Posted by: popejenn at September 24, 2008 9:07 PM

P.S., watch Bill Clinton on last night's Daily Show.

Posted by: Jay at September 24, 2008 9:22 PM

I am so SO glad I'm not living in America. Rock on, rest of world!

Posted by: usAnus at September 25, 2008 4:47 AM

Slightly off topic but I could not be less enthused for Oliver Stone's "W" movie. It will be like watching a documentary about 9/11 the day after it happened. Too soon, man.

Posted by: TylerDFC at September 25, 2008 7:50 AM

usAnus, I'm SO glad you don't live here, too. Although, I have no doubt that your soul burns white hot with longing to live in the greatest country in the world. Kisses

Posted by: ganesh at September 25, 2008 11:01 AM

Ummmmm...I would HATE to remind people that right now it is the DEMOCRATS that want to pass this bailout..NOT the republicans...

AND.....

That a lot of these guys...(Schumer, Dodd, Frank, and yes even the messiah, Obama ) benefitted greatly from the rise of these companies before their fall....

AND....

McCain is a lousy candidate...if the right had a decent candidate Obama would have been about 20 points behind right now...between his gaffes, his wife's and Biden's there is no need to smear or attack...but alas, we have Johnny Boy to come rescue us, and no, Sarah doesn't quite do it for me either...I still think Obama is wrong for us...but choosing the lesser or who cares is getting really old.

I am an apathetic conservative ( NOT a republican, yes they are different ) and I approved this message.

Posted by: TeeBee at September 26, 2008 3:23 PM

You know....I posted my last comment before reading ALL the posts up there....

Whew! That got heated...I should have known having been a lurker here and occasional poster but that just got ugly...

The problem is these guys ( politicians ) spend 75% of their time putting out fires ( simple comments like lipstick on a pig, or I forgot how many houses I have ) and the other 25% trying to get elected or re-elected. They leave no time to actually do their jobs...you know...GOVERN...LEAD....and when the polls speak they listen...1000 person groups randomly called based on bullshit surveys with retarded questions taken in malls across the country decide our fates...scary isnt it? All the while CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS and the rest of the lot spew their opinions and "leak" BREAKING NEWS.....As a President who let EVERY single person who voted for him down ( yes, me...twice)makes decisions based on said polls, trying to actually appeal to the very same left that loathes him...thinking that somehow his legacy will be saved...

So forgive me if I choose to say that no matter who wins...NOTHING will change...there will be NO reform...we might get some people to be a little "nicer" to us if Barack wins...we might be a little "safer" if McCain wins...but in the end we will stand right where we are 4 years from now and be left wondering....."What the hell just happened?"...much like a virgin prisoner during his first full night in lockup.

Posted by: TeeBee at September 26, 2008 3:38 PM

TeeBee, Sounds like you're ripe for

Bob Barr '08

Posted by: bucdaddy at September 27, 2008 4:53 PM

Thought about it....can't bring myself to it...the next two months are going to be hell...oh well...guess I have to grin and bear it...

Posted by: TeeBee at September 27, 2008 11:33 PM

The Republicans win when people are kept from voting, not when somebody messes with the machines. It's no conspiracy...it's common practice called Voter Caging. A company called Choicepoint purged hundreds of thousands of registered voters from the roles in both 2004 and 2000. Mostly from democratic leaning districts.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/330/

In 2004, tens of thousands of voters were pulled from the roles in Ohio without their knowledge and were forced to cast 'provisional ballots' which do not get counted. You have to go before the elections board to prove you are who you are and were properly registered and there is no way to do that on election day and still get your vote counted.

Kerry won that election in Ohio. He was just too much of a pussy to fight for the voters who were cut from the roles by the GOP controlled state administration.

The tactic the Republicans are going for this year is to challenge the registration of voters who lost their home to foreclosure in Ohio and Michigan. They are also suing Ohio's Democratic Sec of State to prevent same day registration and early voting.

http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/ohio-gop-sues-brunner-over-implementing-same-day-registration-and-voting

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/michigan-gop-using-forecl_n_125446.html

While Michael Moore can be a flaming narcissist, at least the man gets a lot of important information out there the gutless Mediacracy refuses to cover lest the mean old Republicans refuse to grant them interviews or say mean things about them.

Posted by: Cleveland at September 28, 2008 1:16 PM