Pajiba

this review made me so sad. That movie looks terrible.

Apparently the happy meal toys for this movie fart, delighting toddlers and providing more entertainment than the movie, I'd wager.

maybe the merging of your audiences, old and new, will go along swimmingly. like ebony and ogre-y *rimshot*

Dammit, I thought I was going to be the first to use Coxian in a sentence today! Oh, Chasquito!

so.much.sarcasm. :) I'll get back to that Modest Mouse now.

I'm filled with horror at your joke of changing the site.

It hurts my feelings to see some guy leave a comment on, say, the Bangable list...

The Bangability List was great fun while it lasted; but after hundreds of posts it became like the dreggy fag-end of any really great party:

All the cool people finally went home, and the hopeless drunks, wannabes, and total 'tards were left hanging around, talking to each other and peeing in the corners.

For God's sake, don't even think of lowering the tone of this place. Them 'tards got PLENTY places to hang already. We have so few! And we love what you've done with the place!

I'm a semi-Shrek fan, and although I was initially going to see this today, after basically every review has diagnosed it with "threequel-itis", I think It'd be safer to rent.

Who are you and what have you done with our Pajiba?

She's being mentioned in the Pajiba Love for today. Get rid of it! She burns!

Ann Coulter has gone from being an embarrassment to the political right...to being an embarrassment to the female half of the human race...to, lately being an embarrassment to the entire fucking species.

I can only wait with bated breath until she shames all mammals--and after that, if she lives long enough, all vertebrates.

Sheee.

stop it.

AHHH! She's starting at me with the hard, cold gaze of death. And I'm staring back. I can't break away! Jesus fucking fuck! The woman has locked me into her eyes with the inescapable powers of Lucifer himself!

DAMN WOMAN SNAP OUT OF IT!

Oh, uh... I've never seen a Shrek. So I've got nothin'. (Again.)

Eeewwww Ann Coulter is glaring at me! I feel dirty.

That said, great sarcastic review. Loved it. However, I'm afraid the Wal Mart crowd won't get it.

ow ow ow make it stop!

I haven't even gotten out of the "For everyone else" paragraph and already my ears are bleeding.

I'm gonna need a couple -- no, more than that -- stiff drinks if you really did maintain that tone all the way through the review. And with that said...I'm going back in. eek.

Never, never, never change! I come here because you actually know something about film. If I wanted reviews like the rest of the WalMart shopping, Britney Spears loving, I get my taste from George W. Bush crowd - I'd read their sites!

But I don't! I love you! And I'll take my pop culture references nice and crispy and literate.
Thank you for listening.

Oh, and I checked out the link to read the comments on the bangable list. "You" are idiots. The "classy" Katie Holmes and "trashy" Maggie G comment was particularly hilarious.

Careful what you wish for Dustin: an "Amanda Bynes/Hillary Duff buddy-cop flick" sounds like a viable guilty pleasure rental to include in a PMS-induced bender alongside a box of double stuff Oreos and a bottle of Bushmills.

Must we all bag on the Walmart crowd? They're entitled to their opinions and we're entitled to ours (even if ours are the right opinions to be had.) Let them lead their snark-free lives in oblivious peace. These reviews are obviously written for we, the hipster dorks, and not the Perez Hilton crowd, but should they find their way onto this site, bloody well let them be. Let them leave their "Your all bitter lusers" comments. Let them puzzle over them big words. Let them visit your site and ratchet up your numbers. Then promptly ignore them and get back to the business of making us, your faithful readers, smile, laugh, snort beer out our nose.

And yes, I got the rampant sarcasm, but after reading at least 10 "Shrek 3 is a rollicking good time" reviews, I was hoping for something a bit nastier from you guys.

Re the add for Shrek at the bottom of the comments page; Shrek looks much more fuglier than I recall. He looks more like a jaundiced, anorexic, 50-year-old, dried-out, transexual Atlantic City street walker. Oh wait... thats an Ann Coulter add. Never mind.

dont lissen 2 al those geeky f4gs d00d. this wuz the best revue evar. ur other stuf is tottaly pretencious. this wuz w4y e-zer 2 read. big words n shit r 4 queers. the rest of u need 2 get a fukkin life.

It's kind of embarrassing how easily that comes to me. But in all honesty Dustin, and this is a minor quibble I assure you, there are those of us who are very literate and have such a love for the art of cinema that it's actually threatening to cost us some friends who also strongly believe that Wilco sucks big, hairy donkey balls. Just saying, is all.

No, Lainie; in fact, you're turning me on.

I don't think many LiveJournal posts are going to lead here after the last inmature freakout over that Veronica Mars meta post.

And now back to our regular schedule of being the coolest and most discerning commenters ever.

I am not very cool, neither can I call myself "indie". I have never listened to Modest Mouse nor have I seen a second of Firefly.

I came to this site a year ago from the oh-so-highbrow Go Fug Yourself, and since then I have been a daily reader while an infrequent commenter. I don't come here to congratulate myself on my superior taste in cinema and culture, I actually just like the reviews. I have found that generally when you guys say that something sucks, it does, and when you recommend something, I will probably enjoy it.

So one paragraph of actual scathing review tucked into a diatribe of elitism? Not all that fun or particularly useful to this regular reader.

Oh yes, but the irony, the sarcasm, the tongue-in-cheek humor! Apparently it's all over my head, and it was vitally necessary to waste space on confirming that ninety percent of everything is crap, even internet comments.

Dustin, please don't cater to those idiots! They're the reason that the brillant Arrested Development was cancelled and garbage like two and a half men/the simple life exist! *shudder*

Now is that the adjective form of Cox's name, or a combination of Cox and Dorian.

Yes, it's important.

You guys really don't like perez, eh? Not even for a few laughs now and then? I can't believe it. I'm not advocating trash mags or celebutard tactics, but I really think that PeePee is genius at times. He can ruin careers, launch new music and spread rumors faster than wildfire! Keeping up with gossip is clearly something that the writers for this site indulge in- is it for research purposes only? If we like being mean about awful movies, why not be mean about fake couples?

wealhtheow, I know right? Amy Sedaris needs to keep it underground. She is WAY too cool for this.

I'm waiting for the marketers to get their hands on possibly the first ever Pajiba review they might want to blurb:

"Shrek the Third is a romp ... that will put a smile on your face ..."

""...an ogre of a good time that will delight children of all ages..."

""Shrek the Third is a quick-paced and energetic sequel...Here's hoping that the last page hasn't been turned on the Shrek fairy tale. "

Oh Pajiba! What have you done!

One of your best reviews yet, and I say that as a longtime regular reader. I'm not a "film geek" per se, as I don't really care too much for elitism. I do like the film geekiness of the site however, b/c with every name you guys mention that I don't know I jump over to IMDB and just further my knowledge of movies.

However I definitely believe in not dumbing oneself down to make more friends (or, in Pajiba's case, a wider readership), and just wanted to say good job in that respect. If you guys ever do sell out though, no hard feelings, everyone has a mortgage to pay.

All I have to say is that all you guys are goddamn indie geeks and you can't appreciate what Hollywood is doing for us! Do you have any idea how much time and work it took to bring these characters to life? You people are senseless jokers who know nothing about cinema art!

Thank You and Good Night

Wow, with all the nit-picking that goes on on this site, I'm suprised that no one has mentioned that it's spelled Oteri, not Oterri. Unless that was part of the joke.

Blessed are the geek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

@Gabrielle: You are my new best friend.

Darn it, I was hoping for some good funny this weekend. This Friday has been a real winner. No paycheck on Payday, and no toner. Guess who got to blow $68 just so I can get something done on Monday?

And no Pajiba Pajamas.

Bring on the a#@holes, if I can't get good funny, I'll make do with beating the verbal cr@p out of those irresponsible for the situation.....

Meh. I saw a first release showing. I'm kind of neutral about it. It was very mediocre, but I dunno if I'd go so far as to call is righteously bad. It certainly was a couple googols shorter on the intelligence quotient in comparison to the previous films, although I did find the occasional scene mildly amusing. Hell if I can remember it now though... Or any of the music. That was also a primary failure of the film.

Forgettable music. Or, in some scenes, hideous banshee wailing.

Hm. This is what it was like to me: You know those franchise movies that are really successful, and then they make a TV series or movie based off, and it doesn't really resemble the original? One of those "television events" that parents cringe through? That's what this was, in cinema form. Either that, or cinema fanfiction. That's the only way I can explain that much of the movie being devoted to a scene in a highschool. *shudder-twitch*

Also, can we organize that Bushmills and Oreos bender? Seriously.

This movie was realy good. I think it was good because Shrek is really funny. In the movie, their is a charcter named Donkey. Donkey and Shrek are friends, like making jokes, and good at being funny. This movie is really good. Dustin, youre revew of the movie is unfare because I like Shrek. Shrek makes me laugh like a lot.

Wow. I agree with whoever said they hurt their thinking parts.

I know I won't be buying my daughter the Shrek Happy Meal (and not just because I am too lazy to walk the three kilometres to the nearest McDonald). Last time I got a shrek toy from the cinema Shrek had a gooey stomach and when you pressed it, it spilled over to reveal the three rats that he had eaten. Scared the hell out of her. Hasn't really cared much for Shrek since.

This review made me laugh hard and out loud in a library full of people. This necessitated evasive maneuvers that probably looked a lot like I was wrestling with myself Tyler Durden style, which in the end was probably more distracting to people and crazier looking than if I'd just let the Pajiba-laughter free. Just thought I'd share.

OK, I'm an East Coast girl who went to Oxbridge for my undergraduate degree and now live in Europe and work in the arts, and I'M disgusted by the elitism and smugness of that review. And that's just wrong.

Dismissing the inhabitants of vast swathes of the country as uncultured morons plays into the hands of people like Ann Coulter. It's a lot easier to paint coastal types with college degrees as arrogant shitheads with no respect for "ordinary people" if, y'know, YOU ACT LIKE ARROGANT SHITHEADS WITH NO RESPECT FOR "ORDINARY PEOPLE."

One of the things I like so much about this site is that you guys devote a certain amount of energy to refuting liberal bigotry about the South, Christianity, etc. And I really don't mean to suggest that there aren't plenty of stupid people with bad taste all over the US. But suggesting that shopping at Walmart means you're dumb is just embarrassing.

Miranda: I think they were just having a little fun. I'm not that kind, the "middle-americans" "bible-belters" or "silent majority" have no compunction when it comes to bashing on the educated, which in the best tradition of Goebbels they've taken to call elite.(it's all code wording)
What has happened? When has getting an education become the WRONG thing? That is what this majority of IDIOTS has done by relinquishing their capacity to think to religion and cheap vulgar ideology. Now they love being stupid, they relish it and worse, they hate you if you are not one of them.I didn't find the article offensive at all.

Oxbridge? Where is that exactly, Oxbridgeshire?

The Oxbridge applications are for Oxford or Cambridge. Which one was it then? Neither?

Education, a job in 'the arts' and residency in Europe aren't some sort of qualifications. There are plenty of stupid people in Europe working in the arts who went to college too.

Folks don't come here to feel superior, they come for intelligent reviews and interesting columns. And plenty of them live in Middle America. And they know a joke when they see one.

Thank you, Jamieson. It was, indeed, a joke. Most of us here are from Middle America. Over half, in fact, are from Wal-Mart's home state, and two of us (including myself) spent a great deal of time working there (and most of our families still shop there religiously, despite our protests.). I'm just taking the piss out of Middle-American stereotypes and what it takes to appeal to the larger demographic. That's all. I feel about as "superior" as a broken washing machine in a laundromat. I might add that shopping at Wal-Mart certainly doesn't make you dumb; however, unless it's your only option (either because of money or lack of available alternatives) it does reflect a certain insensitivity to the means with which it takes to create prices that low. But then again, I'm sure, Miranda, that your Oxbridge degree taught you that much. -- DR

I agree with what only a couple of other people have said in the comments (the rest of whom were busy congratulating themselves on their intelligence and good taste). Pajiba is normally one of my very favorite sites. I love the honest, sarcastic, in-depth reviews, and I normally enjoy the fact that you guys call the mainstream movies as they are (usually crap). But lately, this elitist, aren't we smart, "geek is the new cool" attitude is starting to get really annoying. You guys were much cooler when you just were what you were, instead of now constantly discussing how you are. See the difference?

By the way, I started to notice this shift around about the time you guys did the IPOD shuffle comment diversion, and it's gotten progressively worse since then. So I mostly blame the comment posters for this, although with this review you (pajiba writers) are truly egging the pretentiousness along. It's cool to recognize that a lot of what our culture is churning out in the way of entertainment these days is utter crap, but it's almost more annoying to listen to a group flock around each other in self-congratulatory smugness. Believe me, "You" is just as annoying to me as anybody (and I'm from Southwest Missouri, so I know from "You"), but there comes a point when patting yourself on the back for being so cultured and enlightened transforms you into anything but.

P.S. I actually did think the review was really funny, well-written, and made a good point (I especially enjoyed the list of things more pleasurable than watching Shrek, "Crash Test Dummies cover bands" being my favorite). Upon rereading, I think it's really just more the people in the comments that are annoying me, and not so much the site itself. But I still think you guys are feeding the beast, just a little, especially when you uses phrases such as "like-minded." That wording makes people feel like they are part of an exclusive, superior club, which in turn makes them act (post) like arrogant jackasses.

Tinmo -- You'll have to excuse my interrupting again -- I've taken a sudden interest in the discussion here. I wanted to add, though, that while I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you, if the people that visit the site do feel like they belong to an "exclusive, superior club," then I don't feel particularly bad about that. In a nation that's still dominated by a high-school mentality, where the "popular" kids can still come by here and take swipes at us "indie geeks" and where television ratings and box-office grosses still reflect the great and powerful idiocracy, maybe it's OK to have a small corner of the world where you can feel comfortable being smug and arrogant about your particular tastes without getting metaphorically beat up by the jocktards and cheermongers. It's not as though we pose a threat to that popular mentality, nor is it that we're suppressing popular thought -- I dunno (and maybe someone smarter could explain this better than I), but you know how the high school nerds and geeks and dorks (or whatever) talk shit about the popular kids behind their back, but then flinch whenever they walk by? I'm just saying it's nice to have a place where you don't have to flinch, metaphorically speaking. -- DR

I saw (forced) this movie yesterday for a birthday party with 15 kids. They loved it and so did everyone else in the theater. I sat there cursing all of mankind. It sucked so hard. I did it for my kids.

an Amanda Bynes/Hillary Duff buddy-cop flick

that made me laugh out loud

Amy Sedaris? But...but...why??

Oh and Dustin, major props to your comment on tinmo's comment. I'm just out of high school and I come from a family whose best-loved tv shows are Are You Being Served?, Blackadder (mostly because of my anglophile sister), and Firefly, so having a site where people don't think a few chuckle-inducing fart jokes is an excuse for a movie and don't sneer at liking old movies is a godsend.

Crap, that sounded so much better as "Pardon the hell out OF our saying so."

socalledonlypajibapajamas:

If only I could type faster I would have written everything you said above, except with lot less perspicacity, so good on ya.

P.S. For God's sake, shorten your name. Thanks.

I never would have imagined that a review for Shrek the Third would cause such controversy. I also never imagined I was elitist though I would consider myself "like-minded" with other Pajibans. (By the way, I don't post often but I read every single review on here.) I think what really draws us here (and keeps us coming back) is not some sense of elitism but just an appreciation for well-written quality reviews. I actually don't even get out to the movies much, but I still enjoy reading about them on Pajiba. Long live Pajiba.

I thought the first 2 were alright. They each had their moments. Just saw Shrek 3 today. More of the same to me. Don't understand all the praise for the first 2, but don't get the knocks on this one. Dustin, perhaps I didn't read your review carefully enough, but did you even like the first two? Some readers here liked the first 2, but after reading your review think the 3rd stinks in comparison. Is that the case, or do you think they are all shite?

I don't think my taste in movies are very...indie or profoundly sophisticated. Like someone else who commented above, i came here through gofugyourself. I really enjoy reading the reviews here because you guys are great writers, and are hilarious (like the gofug girls) and are able to pick out things about a film that is so true (whether if it's what makes the film good or bad). I really like reading reviews for movies I will never watch (tickets are expensive).

You guys underestimate people and their tastes. Some people might enjoy Sister Act or... Shrek 3, but that doesn't mean that they have a low IQ or have can't appreciate Pontecorvo. (P.S. great job on that one, by the way.)

all that being said, I thought this review was pretty funny, and I didn't feel elitist until other people started acting all "their camp, OUR camp."

Your switch to mainstream film critic would have frightened me were it not for the subtle flow of the Snark River that wound through that dark wood of forced cheer.

Miranda and tinmo make some excellent points, maybe consider them a little before getting so het up? There has been increasing levels of smug in the afternoon comment diversions and the guides to what's good for you - particularly in the 10 sexiest people, the stated aim of which was 'to feature celebrities that the smarter, more subversive among us might find doable'.

'smarter, more subversive' does ring kind of a little smug, a little superior? Don't you think? If you own that and love that, great... but don't come down like a tonne of bricks if someone calls 'you' on it or asks 'you' to back it up. ( Can't think to quickly look up 'Oxbridge' before flaming someone? 'Your' favourite contemporary author is Nick Hornby? 'smarter, more subversive' - really?)

I understand DR, BarbadoSlim, socalled... and others, your point of view. Everyone should be able to state their opinions. One of mine is that there has been some superiority complex going on, and I agree with tinmo that it takes away a little something from the site.

It's not necessarily about being 'PC to protect the vast middle from "elitist" commentary'... for me, it's about not having an 'us and them' mentality. 'With us or against us' thinking and wedge politics have become a pervasive part of life. From reading this site I'll make a sweeping statement and assume 'you' consider yourselves broadly anti-Bush. Yet at the same time, some of 'you' are displaying a similar narrow mindedness and over-protectiveness regarding 'your' patch of dirt. So, while you may not like his politics, you've bought into them, and display this through how you communicate and how you see yourself within the world. I am going to suggest that in an increasingly fundamental world, a way to actually be subversive, is to stay open-minded and accepting of all comers.

However! This does not mean I want Pajiba to make the reviews objective! I love scathing reviews for bitchy people! It's great entertainment. What I would really like to read though is
... your script.

Stephie have a cheese toastie or something and a big glass of water before you go to sleep.

I have a suggestion for keeping the peace between camps here:

Those of you who have been accused of elitism because of your snotty correct spelling and grammar and your offensive educated opinions, start ending your posts with a "lol" or a "peace out" or something like that.

Those of you who express solidarity with the proletariat--oops, shit, sorry, I mean all you Real Americans!--go find and read the story "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut. It's a SHORT story, I promise, and it'll hardly hurt at all!

Fuck me blind. The use of the word "elitism" in the negative has been around since at least the Nixon presidency; conservatives have used it to great effect ever since. But when did having--and using--a basic education become elitist? When, exactly, did the bar fall that goddamn low?

(And you can't call me elitist because I shop at the Wal-Mart all the time. I love their carts and the low low prices lol.)

Am all for elitism in the arts - don't get me started on how it is perfectly okay in sport but little else!

Am wondering though, if bagging out 'the "middle-americans" "bible-belters" or "silent majority"' really displays much education or so-called 'maturity'? Maybe the next level of maturity is the one where you cease to define yourself against jocktards and cheerwhatevas?

It's a great idea for everyone to feel they have their own 'small corner of the world.' Haven't lost my sense of humour, enjoyed the paragraph on things more pleasurable... got the premise of this post and that it was intended as a joke. Maybe though, it's possible to write intelligent, witty, alternate reviews without having to rag on the 'mainstream' audience? It kind of keeps you in that eternal high school.

Favourite post this year was the April Fool's Day one. Pajiba totally pulled off there what I think you failed to do here.

Jerce, that's spot on.

This comments section makes me worry a bit about the sense of humour among the Pajibans. Scathing reviews for bitchy people, anyone?

By the way, I have a similar Pajiba history to many others, it seems: Discovered it through Go Fug Yourself, reading it religiously (due to excellent writing and hilarious reviews AND comments), posting comments very infrequently.

lol

So, this comment is coming from someone who has been reading Pajiban reviews for the better part of two years. I love the reviews. I tell people that I can't see a movie unless I check the review for it first on this site. You guys are my guide to what I should or should not see in a movie theater. That being said, I have noticed a slight increase in elitism in the comment section and in the movie reviews. Is it enough for me to stop coming here? Oh hell no; however, I would like to state that while I don't care for a person pumped full of stupidity, I don't relish the thought of reading a site full of pretentiousness. I can be pretentious (hell, I was the person who sparked the Elizabeth/Elisabeth debate), but even I get sick of it. I liked the analogy of the modern world as high school. It is, and like high school, I find myself not fully identifying with any pre-ordained group. I liked this site because I felt that I had finally found my niche, people who actually get an "Arrested Development" reference (Nice reference to "Queen for a day" if that in fact was one). Yet, I feel like the cool kids on the geek squad have told me I'm not even cool enough for them, and really shouldn't my fellow geeks make any fellow member feel welcomed and shelter him or her from the cruel, cold world of idiocy? I mourned Kurt Vonnegut and have lamented the fact that Hollywood can't seem to go a summer now without doing some atrocious remake, sequel, or movie from a TV show that didn't originally merit being on TV. I'm not asking for the pretentiousness to stop or the wit to cease dripping from the hands of writers. A little bit of pretentiousness goes a long way while wit is something that can always be induced. I'm pointing to the fact that people whom are actually the key demographic for this site (aka Bitchy, Intelligent, and Witty People) aren't feeling welcomed into the fold because the key demographic has changed from bitchy, intelligent, and witty people to bitchy, intelligent, and witty people who have to adore X things. In all honesty, it really isn't that big of a deal. Do I come here for social time on the internet? No. I come here for the movie reviews, the political and social diatribes, and especially the new religion post. As long as the reviews are good as they have always been, I'll be here. I am extremely appreciative of what you guys do, and if you got extremely famous because of it, I would be happy for you, gentlemen (yeah, I like the word extremely today).

I love "Arrested Development." I own "Shrek." I listen to Modest Mouse. And I shop at Walmart.

This is a freaking website, people, and last time I checked, the Interweb was open and available to EVERYONE. If you feel left out, point your browser elsewhere. The Pajibans are allowed to be as "elitist" as they want, so get over it. Gawd! I teach at a freaking high school, and this "Boo hoo, you are making fun of me! Waaaah!" is more embarressing here than in my 9th grade classes.

By the way, Pajiba, I LOVE you. Like a good friend, I don't always agree with you - sometimes I want a movie just to entertain me, however mindless - but you always give me something to think about, and I appreciate that. Rock on!

Really, I don't get what everybody means with this "increasing elitist" and "getting too pretentious" whingeing.

Can someone give me an example, please?

All I find here is writers and commenters who are witty, clever, politically incorrect and even socially conscious, all at the same time.

Show me where the exclusion/pretentiousness is, black on white... I totally missed it.

mt-

Sorry, you're not included in the three. And I know how much you wished you would be. However, I do agree with you, especially about the socially conscious part (the meat packaging documentary post was particularly good).

I saw Shrek 3 last night. It was a cute, silly movie. If you are too cool for 90 minutes of fluff then just don't watch it.

all the little witticisms

Yeah, okay, there's wit here. That damned annoying wit, how I wish it would go away!

and ass-kissing

Um, examples?

and clever inside jokes

Whaa? Again, examples? Or are these jokes so "inside" that they have all totally flown over my head?

Actually, your post is beginning to make things clear to me. I think people are complaining about the comments (and the commenters) more than the columns themselves.

If that's the trouble some people are having here lately, there's actually a pretty simple solution...No, I won't insult people's intelligence by pointing out what it is.

Tinmo-

I second what you wrote.

Jerce: Well, considering that I've probably said, oh, three or four times now in my posts that it's more the comments section than the actual content of the site that's the problem...I guess you just reiterated my point, so thanks!

Gigi: I was just about to second what you said about the level of pretentiousness/elitism/snobbery whatever you want to call it. Level 89 is just about right or it wouldn't be the same site; 100 is when it starts to get annoying.

I thought the review was funny. I loved it. I read it to my mom, and it pissed her off... haha, but she thought it was funny once she thought about it. My husband said that the "for them" review was a great parody of a NY Times review. He also said that he wouldn't watch this movie even if he went by the "for them review" all by itself. The plot really is so bad that if you strip everything else away, sarcasm and snipe, it still sounds bad.

But I will say that if you need tampons and oreos at 3:00am, the Wal-Mart is the place to go!

Tampons, Oreos, snow tires and a replacement part for the blender--one trip, and twenty-four-seven, bitches!

Oh, my years of fandom have finally paid off:
Hilary Duff spells her name with one L, not two.

I had to sit through this with my two little sisters. One of which, fell asleep on my lap before it even started. What a blessing it was not being able to move during the flick, for I probably would've found the sharpest object and slit my wrists with it.

I love the site, and I generally enjoy the reviews. I wasn't struck by or offended by the elitism of the Shrek 3 review - I just found it to be an uncharacteristically weak attempt at humor, combined with an also uncharacteristic bare bones review that sheds very little light on just why Dustin disliked the film.

The review goes: (not-so) humorous bit about appealing to the mainstream, humorous paragraph about how painful the movie was to watch (again, without any explanation as to why), mock enthusiastic review containing a plot summary.

All of this is fine, but I've come to expect a higher level of quality from Pajiba, and was a bit disappointed by the review. Honestly, I think Dustin could have written the same piece without actually seeing the film, perhaps borrowing the plot summary from the NYT review.

Hey, even Babe Ruth struck out every once in a while. Pajiba remains my on-line movie home. As for the comments debate above, I'm staying out of it.

"low low prices at the expense of sweat-shop labor and horrible working conditions," and by "horrible working conditions," I mean "hilariously crippling kicks to the testes" while stitching together sneakers for $.12 an hour.

I prefer to buy union made American goods where the union janitors are paid $80,000 to sweep up the needles left in the bathrooms after the breaks when the fine union members go back to making fine union products that break down before you get them off the dealership lots. But that's just me, some people prefer reliability. So how's that GM vs. Toyota thing going.

maybe a simplification of what some people are finding a bit odious is not scathing, bitchy, intelligent, witty, alternate etc reviews... but the comments to the effect that 99% of people are too stupid to comprehend them?

maybe some people are alarmed because it's often when a good thing becomes self conscious of its success, that it starts to second guess itself, pander and unravel? dunno

first law of writing drilled into my head - 'show, don't tell'

please don't tell me what this site is and isn't, just be this site.

'show, don't tell' refers to the reviews, am hoping it won't provoke another round for calls to show examples of smug etc. that will distract from actual issue of the debate, which some people really seem to be missing. so would say please re-read Five Novels afternoon comment diversion and entire Pajiba's Ten Sexiest People.

bashing 'middle' America is too easy and it's framing 'your' world in 'their' narrow 'us and them' way. this is not a PC call for Pajiba to be less 'elitist', it's asking Pajiba to lift its game and not play by the rules of the mainstream for which it shows so much disdain.

good luck to whoever has to post the next review! no pressure!!

i swear i didn't click twice! apologies again?

"I might add that shopping at Wal-Mart certainly doesn't make you dumb; however, unless it's your only option (either because of money or lack of available alternatives) it does reflect a certain insensitivity to the means with which it takes to create prices that low." This is why I love Pajiba, thank you Dustin.
And lastly, I'm really tired of people who complain that Pajiba users are elitist. If you don't get the joke or find the reference recondite consider it a fortuitous opportunity for enlightenement... or disregard the item entirely. If you are looking for a website that follows the media standard of writing to a 6th grade level you are in entirely the wrong place.

clarity - if only!

it's not about not getting the joke! it's not that Pajiba writers and posters are so damn clever that no-one else can understand them! and it's not rocket science, it's popular culture - everyone who has access to the internet has a reference point for understanding what's posted on this site.

what it is - it's the people saying they're better, saying they're 'smarter, more subversive'. i think you're completely missing the point and you're making my head hurt. oh for some enlightenemenenememenenment. Think Otto, think!

How to simplify it even further?

Re-read "The film that defined the Pajiba Generation" posted April 1st. Then re-read the Shrek review. Tell me which one you think is the better of the two?

No-one has asked the Pajibans to dumb the reviews down!!
Come on!!

They've asked for the opposite - step it up and make less cheap shots at Middle America. And... for about the tenth time - most of the critical posts have been about the nature of the comments, not the reviews.

I came here the same way that heatdamaged did.

duckandcover, if you think your bladder was full after 90 minutes of Shrek the third, you should try sitting through both Shooter and Hot Fuzz at a movie marathon. I swear, I lost about 2 kgs in pee.

Yes, very mature, but I am 15 years old and taking a break from studying for exams.

I'm off to empty my bladder.

Cheerio.

P.S. A Hillary Duff/Amanda Bynes buddy cop movie? If this ever happened, I would never hear the end of it at school. Some of the skanks are still going on about High School Musical! Some of the slower girls are trying to jump on the band wagon, but with their tubby legs, they just can't quite get up there.

P.P.S. I heard Mike Myers might have signed up for a fourth Shrek...? A trilogy might be enough for now, I think.

Unfortunately for me, I will have to sit through this with the kids. Thanks for the whiskey suggestion.

Oh Amy, my dear sweet Amy. There has to be a better way to make money. I bought your latest book -- just write more; I'll buy them too! And I went to see your Wigfield show. I know it's hard to get Colbert on the road now, but, please. You're better than this.

an Amanda Bynes/Hillary Duff buddy-cop flick

Got to ask - how old are they? This might have potential, in a very wrong kind of way.

Fair enough, I also understand the that Middle America is a "State of Mind" as you say but any time it gets brought up, the same shit gets bandied about. Can you just make fun of Target for once? Or possibly Hot Topic....shudder.

Level 89 is just about right or it wouldn't be the same site

I propose that this concept become our first Pajiba commenters' inside joke.

Gigantor: Good point. I don't necessarily disagree that it's always the same old shit trotted out. But I have to say that WalMart just makes it so easy to hate them. I'm not swiping at the working poor who, God knows, are practically forced to shop there, but I know plenty of comfortable people who are well-informed about how that company makes its prices so low who are still happy to shop there. They tune out the awfulness in pursuit of the happy-making bargain price and I do see a parallel there with the tuning out of any entertainment that causes one to think or be challenged, so American Idol is the default setting. Do I think I'm a better person than these people? No. But am I incredibly bitter because their TV preferences result in virtually all of my favourite shows being canceled because they reach only a niche audience? Hell, yes!

I have a theory that the weather (or dance dance revolution) may be responsible for this unusually heated debate; I am probably wrong.
I like knowing there are other people in the world who don't shop at walmart and who read sci-fi, even some who like documentaries.
It doesn't make me feel special, or normal, it just happens to be nice to be able to relate to people at times.

It's the Arrested Development board all over.

Gotta tell ya, my dead-center of the fucking country newspaper dishes up some slightly less scathing reviews, but mostly agrees with Pajiba. We are awash in churches and beseiged by Wal-Marts, but that doesn't mean we don't recognize a crappy movie when we see one. In fact, I would wager that crappy movies make more, per capita, in urban areas than in more rural ones. When you have to drive 25 miles to get to a theatre, you want to be as sure as possible that the movie doesn't suck. Cracking on the fact that the studio is shoveling this crap at our kids, with the help of McDonalds AND Wal-Mart, is not in any way elitist, just honest. I never thought the middle America references were directed at me, but I surely do recognize the sort of people that sparked such an image, because I see them all the time. I'll bet you do, too, whether you admit to shopping at Wal-Mart or not.

And I repeat, for the benefit of The Stew: Middle America is a state of mind, not a geographical location.

Sigh. I left the other message boards I had been posting on for this one so I could avoid exactly this kind of discussion. How depressing. Not that I haven't acted this very same way. When I was in high school, me and the rest of my crowd would incessantly mock the "Orange Patrol" and the rest of their Abercrombie wearing clones who'd never read a book that wasn't assigned by a teacher or watched a movie that wasn't playing in our local theater. Did that make us cooler? Probably not, which is why I'm so glad I'm not in high school anymore.

Too bad the internet isn't much better.

Please, post another review, or a trade round up, or a comment diversion, or a list of what Pajiba's wearing this spring. Anything to get this divisive discussion off the top of the page!

I read the review, and then I read all the comments, and then I went back to read the review again. I still don't get what the fuss is all about. You can't mention Middle America or Wal Mart anymore without everyone getting their panties in a knot? I don't think that Dustin's target was really Middle America or people that shop at Wal Mart, it was movie critics who make bad puns and write mad libs reviews. He was poking fun at Gene Shalit. You all should get ogre it and move on with your lives.

I second yazikus on how the site/comments make me feel. I miss a lot of the references, both movie and music, due to having missed at least a couple decades of popular culture due to illness. (I'm trying to catch up! I've heard Modest Mouse on the radio!)

Big freaking deal. I take them as possible things to research at the library (Love libraries! Lots and lots of free books, and $1 DVD rentals, keep me busy ForEver!) Am I offended?

Hell no! I freaking LOVE it that people get called out for spelling/grammar goofs, even in the comments. That people use multisyllabic (sp?) words, casually, as a matter of fact. Education and couth are Not Dissed.

Discussions tend to stay on topic (however feebly connected to the movie originally reviewed), ad hominem attacks are close to non-existent, and there are links to weird, cool stuff. Commenters tend to be articulate and intelligent. Love that. And yes, I like to hang with people who read and watch sci-fi, but also watch and read other interesting, well-made stuff that isn't sci-fi.

Stuffy, pretentious and/or elitest? Not very. (Reviewers and commenters alike.) Just not overly tolerant of the run-of-the-multiplex Shrek and willing to say so. In detail.

Write on, fellow Pajibans.

And when the hell can we get our Pajiba Pajamas?

And I apologize for typing errors, it's late and I didn't bother to check. Heh.

Hmmm haven't had an update in 3 days...come on Pajayva, wattsup!

Hi Pajiba,
I'm a big fan! also, a long-time reader, some-time poster.

I must sadly agree about how the pretentiousness jumps a bit higher than an 89 sometimes. Don't know if I'd call it "elitist", more like... sad. Is this payback for high school? I was hardly popular back then (or now, for that matter), but really? must the peanut gallery rag on each other instead of the films?

I come here b/c I love the insightful, witty and acerbic movie reviews. But c'mon. The comment sections sometimes go a bit off in the "i'm cool cuz i get an inside joke, and you're not" arena.
It makes me think of that phone commercial where a guy is told, "There's no level of dungeon master! Dork." (or something to that effect)

I want to see scathing reviews of movies, not of the people that come here from all walks of life to find intelligent discussion about films most of us would never even hear about in mainstream media...
So yay, ya'll are smarter/cooler/whatever than 90% of the troglodytes that want to free Paris, go pat yourselves on the back. Then can we get back to bitchin' about the movies and not each other?

I'll still be your friend.

Yes, I made it into the review for saying something I knew would incite some Pajibans to anger and assumptions! I made the indie geek comment!!! Yes! I actually said that as a joke and a jest. And I'm not a man (reviewer assumed), nor even close to the typical (i'm guessin') Pajiban demographic.
Heaven forbid someone disagree with the most bangable list on Pajiba! And for the record, I really only disagreed with the fact it was so eurocentric, and I realize the demographics of this site, and what is put out in movie land in general. Tom Cruise, Angelina Jolie, and all the rest of the plastic faces don't mean shit to my aesthetics, but as a commenter said (and is evident by the reviewer), "i'm not smart enough" (read to understand how sexy and edgy "the Daily Show" or Simon Pegg is).

Oh, and f--- a Shrek three. I couldn't even watch #2. Going to the movies to see sequels, is comparable to going to the dentist.

Groupthink exists everywhere...

Point taken, Diana. I guess I'm just in denial about the widespread existence of that particular cultural demographic. I avoid Wal Mart like the plague, so I suppose I just don't see them out there. The splatter of vitriol aimed at them seems to catch me every now and then, or at least it feels like it.

Resume hick-bashing

yawn

*stretches*

*Gets up, looks around*

Wha- you guys are still here? Jesus, go home. Go read another article, for fuck's sake.

is shrek anorexic?

And the ultimate sarcasm is that pajiba is pulling a perez hilton:

Making a controversial post so people discuss endlessly and up the "click" count.

you better watch it talking about middle america. hey, im no giant fan of it my damn self; being from the bowels of suburban michigan (i get license to trash it because im from there). now, where im from there were more nipped-and-tucked moms than devoted PTA members, but thats not the point. i mean, come on. you watched more seasons of AI than 70% of my hometown. and you insult me? we didnt singlehandedly ruin arrested development, we dont all love Tim Allen (and hes from my area for chrissakes!), and we dont sit in our cargos waxing philosophical about the butterfly effect until the wee hours of the morn. were not all ass-scratching, small-minded, redneck pieces of trash.

and if we are, new york and all of its society/celebutard/socialite rank bullshit is much, much worse.

so just cut us a motherfucking break and pick on the south, will you? or at least arkansas.

I just wanted to confess that I read Perezhilton and still very much enjoy pajiba. Call me a hypocrite, but I like having a foot in both camps. There are ridiculous things said on both sites.

Who gives a Shrek?
I do.

Check out my review here:
http://andydreamseeker.blogspot.com/2007/06/movie-review-shrek-third.html

you are all gay!! ha ha ha why do you all have to say stuff i just can not be bothered to read it all so stop commenting and get on wit your own sad lives.