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Bring ‘Em On

No End in Sight / John Williams

Film Reviews | September 17, 2007 | Comments (38)


George W. Bush was not born to be a great leader.

Wait. Before you angrily leave the Department of Time-Wasting Understatement, hear me out.

There are different kinds of leadership. And it’s quite possible that W. would be nominally effective at certain types, like the type that requires nudging and winking a lot while getting essentially sympathetic personalities to overcome minor differences and achieve an unexceptional goal. Or the type that requires selecting an Employee of the Month and hanging his or her framed picture somewhere visible, near the cash register or on the wall in the hallway that leads to the restroom.

Which is to say that in some alternate universe, George W. Bush might be someone who lived a modest life in a modest place, telling the occasional inappropriate joke, harboring prejudices of a severity and consequence not much different than the prejudices harbored by almost all people, working just enough to appreciate his weekends and eventual retirement, and enjoying an 89% approval rating among his friends and family. The world needs that kind of leadership, too, and I mean that.

Unfortunately, as ever, we occupy this universe.

When I moved to Brooklyn in the fall of 2000, “hanging chad” was about to become a household phrase in this country, and many people around me were proclaiming a potential Bush victory as the last station stop before our train pulled into Hell. But there’s a particular breed of New York liberal who is almost identical to a particular breed of, say, South Carolina conservative, in one crucial sense — their views compose a single, fixed entity, lacking a fluid relationship with real life. When they’re right about something political, it’s purely accidental, like the old saying about a stopped clock.

In an age of normalcy, it’s possible — just possible — that Bush might have sauntered his way through an unremarkable term or two, pushing for a few intolerant reforms with not much success but mostly hewing to the middle of the road in order to be liked, which seemed his main goal — and, in fact, was often trumpeted as his greatest asset — early in his political career. It’s possible he would have attracted only the kind of truly partisan animosity that now attends every twitch of political life in the U.S. But normalcy — as it had been defined in America, anyway — turned its key in at the front desk on 9/11. And Bush’s approval ratings — as low as 26% this summer — can’t be explained away by partisan hatred, any more than Michael Vick’s current approval ratings can be explained away by racism.

No End in Sight, to reach the issue at hand, is a documentary about the pivotal months after the fall of Saddam Hussein. It was produced, written, and directed by Charles Ferguson, which makes it tempting to call it a labor of love, but it’s more a labor of conscience.

Ferguson is upset and he has a clear agenda, but unlike Michael Moore, he doesn’t seem to believe that Earth would enjoy full employment, widespread peace, and be coated in chocolate with a giant nougat center instead of a molten core if only President Bush and a few CEOs were deported to Mars. Ferguson doesn’t waste any time (or at least not much) bemoaning the fact that we got into the war in the first place. And he wastes just as little time investigating ways to redeem the effort. He seems to be saying, “What’s done is done. Now, why did it happen like it did?”

No End in Sight recycles all the greatest-hit sound bites, from “mission accomplished” to “stuff happens” to “bring ‘em on,” and I don’t mean that as a criticism. Those statements haven’t lost any of their sting if you’re a citizen of this country, like I am, who thought we might approach the likely complex and disastrous fallout of “regime change” with more preparedness and fewer sneers from the podium in the White House press room.

What Ferguson understands, though he never says it explicitly, is that lingering on an issue like Abu Ghraib, while satisfying our lust for graphic wrongdoing, is ultimately a distraction from the less dramatic but higher level and much more crucial decisions which helped create the level of chaos that engulfed Iraq in the wake of our march to Baghdad. His method is to interview those who had the inner circle’s ear in the early days of the war, but who were largely ignored and eventually dismissed. None of them, however, come across as bitter also-rans — they’re disappointed and confounded, but also eminently qualified, and the only anger on display is simmering, never boiling. The movie is all the more effective for that.

In 2003, retired general Jay Garner was selected as the head of the Office for Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (ORHA) in Iraq. Paul Hughes was a member of ORHA charged with reorganizing the Iraqi army, and Lawrence Wilkerson was Colin Powell’s chief of staff. These three, though joined by others in a devastating chorus (including former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and Ambassador Barbara Bodine), recount the primary mistakes of those first few months — the decision to allow widespread looting and disorder; the purging of Baath party members from public service, many of whom had joined the party under Hussein’s rule only to protect their lives; and perhaps most critically, the disbanding of the Iraqi army and secret police.

That last decision was made as Paul Bremer replaced Garner, and it undid extensive work Hughes had been doing to keep track of some 500,000 Iraqis who served in those positions. It released half a million angry, unemployed, and fully armed men into the country’s population, and it was done, according to those interviewed in No End in Sight, without consulting the president. Bush is the yawning chasm at the center of the story, as he’s rarely mentioned by anyone as a strong player in any decision, confirming his reputation for gladly passing responsibility to the more experienced people around him.

Ferguson asked several major players in the administration to be interviewed for the film, and they unsurprisingly declined. The evidence for their incompetence and arrogance is abundant, but despite its levelheaded approach, No End in Sight would have benefited from a modicum of contrarian analysis. For instance, while the disbanding of the army was clearly a rash, catastrophic decision, we’re never told how we might have easily dealt with or trusted such a large group of soldiers who we so poorly understood and who likely had complex, potentially antagonistic relationships with each other.

Likewise, the looting is one of the saddest parts of the story. At least some small portion of the human suffering is caused by petty factionalism and committed by (and to) guilty parties, but to see a library full of ancient manuscripts turned to ash is to witness the destruction of innocent cultural artifacts that deserved to outlive even their most violent and ignorant stewards. Watching Rumsfeld’s sarcasm and indifference in response to that destruction is freshly horrific. But scholar Samantha Power’s claim that less looting might have kept Iraqis from eventually forming sectarian militias seems like a stretch, to say the least. The problems in Iraq remain mutual, shared by the bumbling U.S. occupation and a population all too willing to embrace violence and ancient animosities.

Because No End in Sight is admirably unsensational, it can be a little dull, and because it’s a synthesis of previously reported material, it lacks the force of revelation. I suppose there’s some illiterate GOP hard-liner in a hut somewhere on the plains whose last exposure to the war came when he caught a fleeting glance of Saddam Hussein’s statue falling while flipping the channel from QVC to “Wife Swap,” but even most of those who still echo the president’s rhetoric on Iraq know the facts on display here: the debate about necessary troop levels; the consolidation of authority given to Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bremer, and not many others; the mysteriously unused billions allocated for reconstruction…

It’s a sad litany, and the movie’s real achievement is to demystify it, to turn it into a procession of stupid technocratic decisions that could have been made differently. This makes for a valuable addition to the record — and a refreshing change from the Moore-ification of dissent, in which liberals try to out-Fox their opponents — even if it doesn’t always make for riveting cinema. No End in Sight is mostly composed of static head shots of disillusioned wonks on parade, but to paraphrase Wilkerson, it certainly represents the criticism of the Bush administration that counts.

John Williams lives in Brooklyn. He’s a freelance writer. He blogs at A Special Way of Being Afraid.









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Comments

Great Review John, I'm catching this one tonight or tomorrow. I'm also glad to hear that Ferguson doesn't feel the need to sensationalize.

Posted by: Kevin Longrie at September 17, 2007 1:24 PM

is this the way folks are going to be able to set aside their previous half-formed opinions and learn how to fully embrace the complicated nuances of certain topics that are usually dealt with superficially in most news media?

if so, that would be a great thing.

Posted by: mums at September 17, 2007 2:05 PM

Don't know if it was the subject matter or the fantastic delivery of the review, but I am blown away.

Posted by: courtney at September 17, 2007 2:51 PM

Thanks for the great review. I look forward to watching this.

Posted by: demondoll at September 17, 2007 3:19 PM

"In an age of normalcy, it's possible -- just possible -- that Bush might have sauntered his way through an unremarkable term or two..."

I'm just not sure I buy that. It's been well-documented now by former Bush-insiders and other accounts that the decision to invade Iraq was made as soon as Bush entered the White House. So even if 9/11 hadn't happened (the gift handed to them on a platter), there would have been a pretext created for this war and we (i.e., the world, not just U.S. Americans) would be in this mess. The whole point of the Bush presidency appears to have been to ensure there would be no more "age of normalcy".

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 17, 2007 3:27 PM

PaddyDog, could you point me towards these well-documented accounts?

President Bush's administration makes me sick primarily for its disregard for the rule of law and separation of powers, along with its flagrant disdain for civil liberties. While I'm inclined to agree that we should not have started the Iraq war, I find the entire situation so confusing that I typically withhold comment. I'm looking forward to this documentary to give me more information about what has actually happened there and why.

Posted by: Jen at September 17, 2007 4:50 PM

so there's really nothing new here, is there? Just more evidence from more insiders that we should never have invaded Iraq. Great. Thanks. That's helpful. And I'm only 85% sarcastic, as I do want to be able to point to the growing number of qualified people w/in the administration that had their heads on right and say, thanks, at least you tried to convince Pres. Bush otherwise.
However.
What I'd really like to see is these same people commenting on what they thing we should do now.
I am of the opinion that when Colin Powell told Bush that he was looking at a 15 year problem if we went into Iraq, he had it right on the money.

And all this talk about pulling the troops out now is freaking my shit, cuz we're not ready to leave. By a long shot. We made our bed, we gotta sleep in it. And if that means a 15 year snooze with the enemy, so be it. We should have had a real debate before marching in with guns blazing because we were itching for a fight after 9/11. The pundits scream about it being a civil war, a political war... yeah, so? We stirred the hornet's nest w/o even knowing it was a hornet's nest!
I want to hear about what people really think will happen if we draw down troop levels starting this year and by the end of next year.
I just don't see anyone with concrete thoughts of what's going to happen after we leave. And that scares me. A lot.

Posted by: Stella at September 17, 2007 5:22 PM

Jen: Paul O'Neill, Bush's former Treasury Secretary has written (and backed it up with interviews from other insiders) that at Bush's first National Security Council meeting, 10 days after his inauguration and 8 (yes, EIGHT) months before 9/11, invading Iraq and going after Saddam was the number one item on the agenda. He says Bush said "go find me a way to do it" A Wall Street Journal (not exactly an anti-Bush paper) journalist Ron Suskind has a Pentagon document from March 2001 entitled "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts" that was circulated to dicuss how they would divvy up Iraq once it was "conquered". This was reported in the WSJ, NYT, 60 Minutes, etc. I am not making it up.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 17, 2007 5:23 PM

It seems that everyday I read something new that makes me angry at myself for not stopping more people from voting for G.W. when I had the chance.

Thanks PaddyDog; I didn't think you were making it up, as, unfortunately, I can completely believe the sole basis for this war was oil+revenge. No one has given a better reason yet.

Stella, I'm with you--very nervous about bringing our troops home within the next few years. I feel like all the Democrats and Progressives screaming for an end to the war aren't well-enough informed as to the implications of troop withdrawals. I feel like they're politicizing something that is more serious, and thereby hindering any real conversation or debate as to how we need to approach the civil war we helped start.

Posted by: Jen at September 17, 2007 5:50 PM

Although this sounds like it might be interesting, and it's certainly worth looking at the many, many mistakes that happened in the invasion of Iraq, I think focusing so obsessively on those mistakes can leave one with the impression that the Iraq war was a good idea poorly executed. I don't think that's true at all, and the kind of reckless militarism that attitude can lead to worries me. I don't really expect this country to ever have a serious conversation about our foreign policy, but we desperately need one.

Posted by: zenhound at September 17, 2007 6:30 PM

Jen: Hee! I hear you about "stopping more people from voting for W". Mr. PaddyDog used to be a Republican. I threatened to with-hold sex for the next 10 years if he voted for Bush (Sorry folks, democracy just doesn't work sometimes). Thankfully, he had already abandoned the dark side by the time the election rolled around. Now, I have to focus all of my efforts on the crew who think that Fred Thompson is harmless, just like they thought Bush was harmless. When will people stop voting for someone who "seems like a fun guy to have a beer with"?

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 17, 2007 6:46 PM

Sorry, John, but normalcy didn't turn in its room key on 9/11/01. In fact, normalcy just called the front desk. They want another bottle of scotch, and they want it right fuckin' now.

"Normalcy" in America is a country bitterly divided right down the middle on virtually every issue, and it was that way long before George Bush entered the governor's mansion in Texas, never mind the White House. On 9/10/01 we had half the country thinking President Bush was an amiable moron who had stolen the 2000 Presidential election, and the other half convinced that the Democrats had tried to steal the election and failed, and the best thing Al Gore could do for the environment would be to mulch himself.

(Full disclosure: I'm pretty sure John still belongs to the first group, judging from his review; I still belong to the second.)

We were, and are again, a country divided. Division is weakness, and weakness invites attack. On 9/11, we got attacked. And for a while, we were united, in grief and rage, if nothing else...and the realization that we now had a new, common enemy in radical Islam.

But after awhile, the grief and rage faded, and we went months and then years without being hit again on our soil. Partly because we took the war to the enemy, remember? It wasn't enough to simply play whack-a-mole with individual terrorists; we had to take down the regimes that supported them. Especially before one of them provided their terrorist clients with a WMD or two. "Never Again," remember? Even the Democrats in Congress believed that, or at least paid lip service to it, which is why most of them voted for the same Iraq War they're now trying to strangle.

Sooner or later, we were going to have to finish the job with Saddam that Bush's father started...and not just because of Saddam's support for terrorism and his rumored pursuit of WMDs, either. The humanitarian catastrophe Saddam caused by starving, torturing and gassing his own people - made worse by the UN sanction that we had to enforce - played a part in that too, remember? Regardless of who won the 2000 election, Iraq would have been one of the top priorities of any incoming president...

And, remember this: it was Bill Clinton who made "regime change" in Iraq a priority of the United States, for all the reasons that Bush cited when he finally went ahead and changed the Iraqi regime.

But, for Ferguson, those are inconvienent truths:

Ferguson doesn't waste any time (or at least not much) bemoaning the fact that we got into the war in the first place. And he wastes just as little time investigating ways to redeem the effort. He seems to be saying, "What's done is done. Now, why did it happen like it did?"

Of course not. God forbid that we actually have an honest assessment of why we went to war in the first place, right? You'd think that Ferguson, for example, would pay some attention to the fact that the same intelligence "professionals" who underestimated Saddam's WMD capability in the first Gulf War and overestimated it in the second also helped out with the postwar planning.

And God forbid that we might come up with a plan to actually win in Iraq. Because the only enemy Ferguson wants to defeat is George W. Bush, and he's made a film to appeal to that half of the country that still can't believe (as he does) that a President they utterly despise and hold in contempt actually beat them. Twice.

I suspect part of Ferguson's target audience are congressional Democrats looking for political cover in ending the war: they, too, seem interested more in defeating the President than in defeating the terrorists. Did anybody see, for example, any Democrat ask General Petraeus how we could win the war, when Petraeus appeared last week to testify before Congress to deliver his report about the situation in Iraq? All I saw them do was mock and belittle Petraeus, and call him a liar to his face and a traitor behind his back.

But sober reflection on our difficulties and how to resolve them? You won't find that in Congress...

The only real difference between Ferguson and Michael Moore seems to be that Ferguson adopted a more sober tone...and actually had the benefits of hindsight and a few embittered ex-Administration officials to help him tell his tale. Whether his hindsight criticisms are fair, of course, is another matter. Was disbanding Iraq's army truly a mistake, for example? Iraq's army, as I recall contemporary reports, had pretty much disbanded itself before Bremer showed up. Most of it deserted or melted away as Coalition forces overran the country, and the remnants were a shattered, discredited and demoralized force. Either way, weren't we going to have to rebuild it?

And weren't WMD facilities and conventional arms depots more militarily vital and urgent targets for our forces to seek out and occupy than Iraq's museums? We didn't go to war for pottery, after all. (Nor did we go to war for Iraq's oil, either. It would have been much cheaper and profitable to simply buy it from Saddam...as we had done before 1991.)

Yes, the grief and rage we felt on 9/11 has faded away, largely because Al Qaeda hasn't managed to hit us again. And Iraq is still a festering boil on the ass of both the Middle East and American foreign policy, just for a different reason. And all the old political hatreds, feuds and resentments in the American electorate have now come bubbling up to the surface again...except now with the War on Terror they have a new and broader stage upon which to act. The difficulties we've faced in rebuilding Iraq aren't problems to be solved; they're just another political opportunity for somebody to score points. And to hell with our reputation in the world.

Yep, everything's back to normal, all right, and we've all chosen up sides again.

No, venomous partisan hatred doesn't fully explain the President's 26% approval rating - or, for that matter, the nine percent approval rating enjoyed by the Democratic-controlled Congress. In Bush's case, he alienated part of his base with drunken-sailor spending and his refusal to get illegal immigration under any sort of control. And Congress' low approval rating can be explained by the fact that, no matter which party controls it, the House and Senate are nothing more than playgrounds for corrupt, spiteful children incapable of keeping their hands out of taxpayers' pockets...or their feet into their own bathroom stall.

But venomous partisan hatred in American probably has played a part in our current difficulties in Iraq, whatever political or operational mistakes we may have made there in the past.

Because we're once again bitterly divided, and fighting amongst ourselves, and our enemies see that and take heart and courage from it wherever they may be...in Iraq or elsewhere.

Again: division is weakness, and weakness invites attack.

You would have thought one 9/11 would have been enough to teach us that.

Posted by: Wes S. at September 17, 2007 7:06 PM

But Fred Thompson looks so "presidential" on Law&Order! Surely he can be president in real life!

*gag*

Posted by: Stella at September 17, 2007 7:08 PM

Wes, since division is weakness, does that mean we on the left can be expecting you to join us?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Posted by: zenhound at September 17, 2007 7:19 PM

What Ferguson understands, though he never says it explicitly, is that lingering on an issue like Abu Ghraib, while satisfying our lust for graphic wrongdoing, is ultimately a distraction from the less dramatic but higher level and much more crucial decisions which helped create the level of chaos that engulfed Iraq in the wake of our march to Baghdad.

I'm sorry, but Abu Ghraib is hardly a minor issue in all this. Aside from the fact that the U.S. government condoning detention without charges, the mocking of others' religious beliefs, and out and out torture is "graphic wrongdoing," it's also been a major factor in undermining the United States' credibility all over the world in general and in Iraq in particular.

I'm far more concerned about the destruction of civil liberties, torture, and the concentration camp we've set up at Gitmo than whether the Iraqi people reach an amicable political solution to their problems. I'm not saying that it's not important, it's just the tremendous damage done to our own country must come first.

Ok, end incoherent rant.

Posted by: bartap at September 17, 2007 7:32 PM

So, Stella, "we've made our bed and have to lie in it." Does this mean you'll be volunteering to go to Iraq because America has the responsibility to see this through? Or would you rather send someone else?

The "we have a responsibility" brigade is all very well, but a more mature way to view this would be to withdraw, accept that the US has stuffed it up, and take the financial and political consequences (increased influence of Iran, dimunition of American standing in the region and elsewhere, increased cost of oil). We made our bed, we have to live with the consequences. The US is not a great power - it's a bumbling child who can kick out a few times but doesn't have the concentration to do much that's constructive. The longer we stay, the more we prove this.

Unfortunately there is no happy ending for this debacle. People who insist we must stay, are actually saying "our forces must stay." As John Kerry once said: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Posted by: rocky at September 17, 2007 8:13 PM

thank you Wes S, thank you for that. While I probably would disagree mostly with your style of politics, (I say Hooray!! to Al Gore and his pudgy tummy)thank you for brining up the point that no one really has an answer too. Because it is far too early to bring the troops home now, leaving will only bring suffering to an already suffering people. So how do we win. And I know this will sound far too Rudi Giulliani (fucktard) but wining has to be our only focus on the war in Iraq. The U.S. has done a lot of terrible horrific things in the past, but that doesn't give us the excuse to not do the right thing now. And shame on you zenhound. This kind of political division doesn't do us any good, and makes our side seem like theres. We can't do anything divided.

Posted by: Alex McQ at September 17, 2007 8:56 PM

I don't understand why this review has to begin with mockery of George W. Bush. It's pretty blatant how you feel about him, and it really tarnished what would have otherwise been an interesting review. I don't have a lot of warm fuzzies for Bush, but your ad hominem attacks turned me off from the get-go. I also think he's a lot smarter than people give him credit for (but that may be because we share an alma mater).

Posted by: Micheru at September 17, 2007 9:21 PM

The "we have a responsibility" brigade is all very well, but a more mature way to view this would be to withdraw, accept that the US has stuffed it up, and take the financial and political consequences (increased influence of Iran, dimunition of American standing in the region and elsewhere, increased cost of oil). We made our bed, we have to live with the consequences.

Ok, Rocky, slowly and quietly back away from Stella, or I'll have to give you a colonoscopy with this rocket launcher -- and that's a procedure I know a little bit about. Stella, I missed you. I know you've been back for a few days, but that was my first opportunity to say so. Alex TO is my Pajiba-crush-on-the-young, but you're my Pajiba-prospect. Well, you and 'bama. (kidding honey! kidding!)

But rocky, a cold analysis must have preceded your bold recommendation: how many Iraqi civilians is it okay must die per American boy saved if we withdraw? No, I don't want to go. But, yes, I recognize that we have a responsibility to cash the checks our administration wrote, sometimes with our corporeal vessels. And if we invade Iran, which is absolutely on the table, my 40-year-old ass will be among those implicated when the rest of the world inevitably turns against us. This is a complicated analysis; not as easy as you depict.

The resolution now is the same as it was three years ago: The U.S. must spend every ounce of political capital it has, plus billions of dollars in country-to-country bribes, to get the Arab League to take over the reconstruction of Iraq, under the supervision of the UN. It gets us out, it gets a multi-national Muslim force into Iraq with no agenda except getting them stable. Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and a balanced Sunni-Shia coalition must take over. Then, and only then, can we in good conscience walk away from young mothers, babies, and every other vulnerable Iraqi group that we would not walk away from here.

The US is not a great power - it's a bumbling child who can kick out a few times but doesn't have the concentration to do much that's constructive. The longer we stay, the more we prove this.

Um, sure; I'm assuming you were going for hyperbole? There's no other country in the world that could remotely have accomplished the mayhem we wrought. Russia can barely stir up Chechnya. One of the worst parts of this is our pile-driving ability to raise hell with gusto. I'm aghast at the poor management, but Afghanistan plus Iraq plus maintaining our interests every where else? Are you kidding? Saying "The US is not a great power" removes you from the argument, the same way as saying "Gravity is bullshit, and oh by the way, that whole round-earth thing is nonsense." Good luck with that.

And it's "except," not "accept."

And Wes: WTF, dude? Let's try to keep it under 5,000 words. I love to read your opinion, but Christ on a friggin cracker, it's a comment section, not a manifesto. If it's worth spending my time, it's worth a couple of edits, Tolstoy. And the "Blame Clinton" thing is way over. No one's buying except Fox News.

Posted by: socalledonlycousins at September 17, 2007 9:22 PM

Wes, you're one hyperbolic statement away from accusing those of us on the other side of being "unpatriotic". Yeah, sure, the anti-war people are the divisors! Not the bullies who have hijacked the language of democracy for their own gain or who have the lack of shame to accuse a double amputee war veteran of treason for opposing their position on Iraq. By the way, this administration didn't "bring the war to the enemy", they engineered a situation in a country that did not attack the US that every leading foreign policy expert in the world (except those paid by said administration) believes has created more willing enemy combatants than the past 10 years of Al Qaida propganda.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 17, 2007 9:58 PM

Alex-
Shame on me? For what? I was pointing out the ridiculousness of the "division is weakness argument" (which I think might have been a slogan in 1984). People on the right looooove to trot out the need to unite behind the president--as long as it's their guy. When the other side is in office, all bets are off. It's a silly argument at any time. Democracy is about arguing about ideas and compromising somewhere in the middle, or at least it used to be. The US has always been divided, at times more than others. Probably always will be. It's actually built into the system (see Constitution, U.S.; separation of powers).

Posted by: zenhound at September 17, 2007 11:26 PM

Wes S - weakness is not the only thing which invites attack. I suggest more Americans look outside their country, and at the effects of US foreign policy on the rest of the world, particularly undeveloped nations. Folks are sick of pickin your cotton.

Posted by: rosie at September 18, 2007 11:09 AM

The blaming Clinton thing is not out, sorry, but you cannot change the past in this respect. Wes is right, regime change and "democratic expansion" where priorities for the Clinton administration, that and utterly gutting our armed forces and intelligence services. The same people (Hillary and John Kerry) were saying that Iraq posed a threat to the U.S. and the world. Add that to the fact the Operation Desert Fox (1998) was completely about setting Saddams WMD program back several years. These things did not just not happen because someone says "it's so over" and then throws in "Fox News".

This has been brewing for a while, far before G.W.Bush. Iraq had been bribing France and Russia with oil money through the U.N., had violated 16 U.N. resolutions, each of which should have provoked a regime change response, and it can be thought that Iraq would have beaten the sanctions and quickly be back to being the regional destabilizing bully but with WMD's and oil as weapons.

Was the war handled well? NO. Did anyone in Congress the other week have anything to ask Gen. Patraeus about victory or winning? NO. Are there those in Congress that care more about defeating Pres. Bush than winning a the war? YES. . The problem began when Bush had all of these old school politicos on his staff, and well, you get the old schoolers and you get their old school ideas, albeit with a glossy coat of paint.

Rant over.

Posted by: Gigantor at September 18, 2007 11:48 AM

And can we get over the whole "FOX NEWS" thing? Has anyone ever watched the Network news? or MSNBC and CNN? or Newsweek and a large stake of our print media? No, of course not, those are perfectly balanced outlets, no problem there...move along now...

Posted by: Gigantor at September 18, 2007 11:54 AM

Rocky,
Althought I disagree with you, you bring up a good point. I am not currently serving in the US military, nor do I ever plan to. It's a personal choice, and one that I've struggled with, believe it or not.

However, let it not be said that not being in the military automatically makes you incapable of having an opinion.

I'm all for defending our freedoms (hey, I'm an immigrant and I sometimes feel like I have a better grasp of what true American-style freedom is than all the spoiled, entitled brats I grew up with). My problem is with, like Paddydog mentioned, "a situation in a country that did not attack the US that every leading foreign policy expert in the world (except those paid by said administration) believes has created more willing enemy combatants than the past 10 years of Al Qaida propganda."

The fact that the American people, who were understanably hurt, angered, outraged, and most of all, FRIGHTENED after 9/11, were bamboozled by the administration into believing that Iraq was the answer to our fears angers me because preying on our fears is NOT what I'd hoped our government would resort to.

Our men and women were sent into harms way, to slaughter in some cases, by an administration that took little to no time to truly understand the region, its history, its conflicts and its people. Our own inability to learn from our mistakes condemns us to the quandry that we find ourselves in.

That's why I mentioned Colin Powell's "15 years". Who in their right mind thinks that a war can be fought and won in under 5 years?? How can people be surprised that our responsibilities will extend beyond our military presence? Have none of the other conflicts we've been involved in taught us NOTHING?

But you speak of sacrifice, Rocky, and there, I agree with you. I have not had to sacrifice much of anything since 9/11. Oh sure, I get searched at the airport now and again, but really, that does not qualify as "SACRIFICE". What I really find laughable about all our flag carrying, bestickered patriots is their utter lack of willingness to SACRIFICE. (I exclude, of course, all military personnel for obvious reasons.)
It's the rest of us that should be ashamed of ourselves. Have we done anything concrete that would help us become less dependent on the stability of the Middle East to support our ravenous appetite for energy? No. No, because to sacrifice is to say we've been beat. And God knows, we can't show the world that 9/11 might have been a wake up call to show us that we are not as invincible, impregnable or as vulnerable as the rest of the world. A world we can barely locate and identify on a map, btw. So good on us!

Posted by: Stella at September 18, 2007 12:35 PM

The blaming Clinton thing is not out, sorry, but you cannot change the past.

And neither can you. Blaming Clinton is not only intellectually lazy and weak, it's unsupported by everything that has happened in the past six years. There's more below, but for starters you might want to consider who passed the defense spending bills in the 1990s: largely Republican Congresses that harassed and impeached Clinton. Clinton lacked the power to "gut" the military and chose not to do so anyway.

regime change and "democratic expansion" where priorities for the Clinton administration

Yes, absolutely and appropriately so . . . as long as there was a minimal body count. Milosevic is a good example of making the best of a bad situation with minimal American and Serbian casualties, though they waited too long. Rwanda is a good example of making the worst of a bad situation. But nothing Clinton did compares to the wholesale disaster that is Iraq.

that and utterly gutting our armed forces and intelligence services.

Oh, please. That nonsense is an easily provable falsehood that has been discredited many, many times. Bush had been in office one year when our "gutted" military easily took over Afghanistan. He had been in office two and one-half years when that "gutted" and now distracted military easily took over Iraq. Bush certainly did not put together this kick-ass force in two years -- you can't assemble a skilled fighting force that large, with a volunteer army, in two years.

Bush inherited Clinton's military, which absolutely stomped the ass of everything put in front of it. Clinton and his largely Republican Congresses poured money and resources into the conventional military in the 1990s. The only thing Bush brought to the table was a set of incompetent commanders such as Donald Rumsfeld.

Clinton's intelligence services repeatedly warned the first-year Bush administration that Al Quaeda was going to attack this country, probably with planes, definitely through domestic terrorism. Bush, Rice, et al. utterly ignored the warnings.

But when it came to managing two wars, keeping large garrisons in two occupied countries, and still maintaining all of our other overseas interests, Bush failed because he is a miserable leader and manager. At that point, the country was four years into the Bush administration, plenty of time to build up military support forces and plan an exit strategy. Those tasks certainly were not the responsibility of Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, or Jimmy Carter, since none of them would have been dumb enough to undertake this fiasco.

It's sad to see people cling to Clinton-bashing for current problems, not only because it's factually ridiculous, but because it makes it seem that those people cannot comprehend that this nation TWICE elected Bonzo the chimp and his Nazi henchman to fuck up our country. Surprise! They succeeded.

Posted by: socalledonlycousins at September 18, 2007 12:58 PM

No-where, I think, in my post did I put everything on the Clinton administration. I was pointing out that actions in the past by previous administrations do have a very real effect for those who take power afterwards. And the fact that people often have to much of a glowing recollection of the past 10-15 years. You are certainly correct to state that the current administration had plenty of time to rebuild what was gutted, they didn't. Rumsfeld was too busy planning two wars AROUND his ideology of lighter and cheaper.

And to be sure, there is a very big difference between pouring money and resources into the military to procure and research hi-tech weaponry to replace the need for actual manpower, actually it is a huge a difference. Going from around 18-16 divisions to 10 and cutting our air wings in half is a big deal.Take a look at how we planned and fought the "peacekeeping" efforts in the Balkans, even then we were stretched thin and calling up N.G. units and had an over-reliance on air power especially in Kosovo. And we did not take over Afghanistan easily. We did it on the cheap, with an over reliance on the untrustworthy N. Alliance.It seems you prefer to gloss over deeper subjects such as Afghanistan and the Balkans. IN a quick attempt to make your point. Afghanistan was not easy and neither Kosovo or Serbia. Our military, through its shedding of numbers, is not built for effective occupation, peacekeeping etc. Lighting quick and utterly devastating attacks are its forte. Only in the last 1 1/2 has the decision been made to grow our infantry.

And this really puts a damper on anything you post...
Ah yes "Bonzo the Chimp" and then cap it off with "Nazi Henchman" !!! Wow! you really just clinched your argument there pal! Keith Olbermann....is that really you?

Posted by: Gigantor at September 18, 2007 1:19 PM

And this really puts a damper on anything you post...

Really Gigantor? I'm full with sorrow that no one will ever listen to me again because I name-called our low-IQ president and his demonstrably evil henchmen. I'm sure I'm completely finished on this website based on your pronouncement.

It's ironic that you would try to discredit me with my closer when you wrote this: You are certainly correct to state that the current administration had plenty of time to rebuild what was gutted, they didn't.

Don't try to associate your incorrect remarks about gutting the military with my comments about the current administration. I stand by everything I said, all of which has proven out in spades over the past six years.

we did not take over Afghanistan easily. We did it on the cheap, with an over reliance on the untrustworthy N. Alliance.It seems you prefer to gloss over deeper subjects such as Afghanistan and the Balkans. IN a quick attempt to make your point. Afghanistan was not easy and neither Kosovo or Serbia. [sic -- I weep for the future of this country.]

On the spectrum of military victories of one country against another, our actions against Afghanistan and Serbia were astonishingly successful in terms of defeating them and removing them as immediate threats in a relatively short period of time, which is the primary job of the military. Maintaining the Afghanistan victory fell to Bush. He failed. The end.

gloss over deeper subjects

Sorry there's not time or space to start up militaryarguments.com in a comment thread on film site. Let me know when you get that up and running. In the meantime, keep whistling into the wind about how this is the fault of those stupid Dem leaders who didn't plan well enough for Bush's grand scheme.

Posted by: socalledonlycousins at September 18, 2007 4:04 PM

Who's Rumsfeld?

Actual quote from an office co-worker upon overhearing a conversation I was having back when Rumsfeld announced his resignation.

How can we be expected to ask the tough questions of our leaders when the masses don't even know who's leading them?

Posted by: Stella at September 18, 2007 4:32 PM

Actually, socalledonlycousins, I meant "accept". There are a lot of things this country finds it hard to accept. The idea that we might be impotent is one of them. The enduring right-wing myth of Vietnam is that we didn't try hard enough. As John Paul Vann demonstrated, sometimes it's not a matter of trying harder - you have to understand what in hell you're doing. The Iraq revisionists are already painting our future failings as a failure to commit enough troops, or to "stay the course", when in truth our failing is to understand that there are things that can't be achieved by military means. Occupying a country to "save" it is one of them.

Stella, you are a gentle and reasoned soul, and while I don't agree with you I salute your stand.

Posted by: rocky at September 18, 2007 7:12 PM

not many of us achieve anything meaningful in life. i wish i could say that about George Bush and his cronies, but i can't

they fucked up an entire country

it's so unbelievably sad

Posted by: Bill Nuttall at September 19, 2007 9:14 AM

I'm interested in seeing this movie. I never objected to the invasion of Iraq, but have been extremely dissapointed in the piss-poor prosecution of the war. I think we should immediately withdraw from Iraq, but not for the reasons most commonly advocated. Our strategy for dealing with the Muslim world should be 2 pronged: immediate withdrawl from Iraq combined with aggressive covert dirty tricks.

So we leave tommorrow. Let's obseve how we can benefit from the probable outcomes:
First, there will be a power vaccuum that will draw in all the regional players. A domestically unstable Iran will start administrating, either overtly by invasion, or covertly by puppetting, a large portion of southern Iraq. The Shia will accelerate the ethnic cleansing of sunni in this area. This dirty bit will not go unnoticed by the large sunni states in the region (Saudi Arabia, most notably), who will funnel arms and intel and money and probably fighters too, to their sunni allies. BOOM! We have ressurrected the Iran-Iraq war, but now have the added benefit of getting ragheads to pay for it. And who do the Saudis buy arms from? US! Good for the American economy. So now the Iranians are embroiled in a war, which will stress their already stressed regime, and accelerate domestic discontent, while simultaneously bleeding their army of resources and trained personnel.

The Turks will see a nascent Kurdistan on their southern border and probably get itchy too. Maybe they invade northern Iraq, maybe just engage in proxy war and covert dirty action. Awesome! This will forever prove to the EU that these people are not like we are, that the cultural differences between Western and Eastern civilization are real. Bam! No Turkey in the EU, EVER! This keeps the dirty Turks out of Europe, and will slow the emigration of muslims into central and western Europe.

An Iraq paritioned by its border states is just the start of the fun. Everyone in the region is gonna get in on the action. Lezbollah and the other Iranian proxies will smell the blood like sharks in the water, and next thing you know, we've got internicene warfare breaking out across the muslime world. Lebbanon is fucked, because the druze and christians and hajis will start killing each other all over again, just like the good ole 80's. This might actually take a little heat off of the Israelis, as all the suicide bombers and assorted other fanatics will be headed for the conflicts breaking out all over the region. All hell will break loose in Pakistan, because the country is only under nominal control anyway, and sooner than later one of AQ Khan's nukes is gonna get loose. KABOOM! Guess what? America no longer has the guilt trip of being the only nation to use an atomic weapon. Meanwhile, all the petro states are gonna sell every drop of oil they can produce to help pay for funding whichever side of jihad they support. So soccer moms, start the engines on those SUVs! China will benefit economically too.

All this craziness in the middle east will convince everyone in the world to start taking these bearded weirdos seriously. Crackdowns will ensue, hopefully, and Europe can start purging itself of its unwashed, hairy hajis. Russia will deal with any threats as it usually does, which is to say, ruthlessly. China already has some suitable repression happenin', but they might ratchet up the pressure, just to be on the safeside.

Muslims killin' Muslims, people, it is a wonderful thing.

For prong two, get the CIA to start doing some dirty shit again. Lets start pumping that Afghan heroin into Europe. Maybe South America too. Turnabout is fair play, Colombia! Use some college age hackers to relentlessly take down their internet propaganda outlets. We can put operatives all over Europe posing as tourists. Let's see some of those self-proclaimed Mad Mullahs with storefront Mosques turn up in the trunks of abandonned cars looking like plates of halal cold cuts. Don't torture these SOB's for information (though that's good too), torture 'em to hear the funny sounds they make before they die! remember, they are the ones who dictated the terms of the conflict, not us. We tried to fight stand-up, and every convention we uphold is laughed at by these lunatics. Why not stoop to their level? Send envelopes of Anthrax to Al-Jazeera. Put bombs on their airliners. ACTIVELY target civilians, hospitals, universities, mosques and women and children. We did it to the Nazis, why not the Durka-durkas?

Posted by: Crusader at September 19, 2007 1:28 PM

God Mr. Williams, you're a fucking downer.

Oh hey! Wifeswap's on!

Posted by: Matt 2.0 at September 21, 2007 11:16 AM

OK, So, bear with me:

It seems that he real genius behind the Bush Administration, is for us to think that he's an idiot, because:

1): It gives us all something to bitch about

(Which makes us, as Democracy, happy, because there is concenus. Ie: Disapproval Rating actually becomes an Approval rating because he is fucking up so bad, and we all agree. - No?
Brilliant!)

2): Even the ones who were right, are now wrong; simply because they were right.

3): Hire the Press: Hire the War

(Even if you have to play the clown to tell the people you're Stupid. Besides, We like that better. Just say something about the "Noble Sacrifice". After all: it worked for Goebbels.)

In the end: there is actually a calculated level of Unstupidity and arrogance going on, that scares the shit out of me.

Posted by: BriBri at September 23, 2007 3:48 AM

I don't think I've ever seen or read of a riskier time for our country than the time we're in right now and are walking into. Somewhat to my surprise, the commentary above leaves me with a grain or two of optimism. From my perspective, there are things about most of the thoughtful postings above that I both agree and disagree with.

I think Americans have two basic problems right now. The first is that we have, over the last 50 years or so, pretty completely forgotten who we are as a country and what the strong suits are that got us here. Our understanding and respect for the Constitution is as sturdy as the Mississippi bridge at Minneapolis--and we drive over it, trustingly and unthinkingly, everyday. The second is that as a people we are divided, and that the political class of nearly all stripes is inept at almost everything they are supposed to do except playing, or attempting to play, those divisions for their personal short-term gain.

We have been "led" for the past four presidential terms by two men who seem at first blush to be very different from each other, but who, at their core, share a deep, abiding, and very destructive narcissism. "Ask not what your country can do for you" has been quite effectively replaced by "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all." And most of the candidates of both parties who are pawing at your lapels right now fall into the same category.

The coming election may be the most important in my lifetime (I go back to Harry Truman--remember him? He's the guy whose battle-tested generals persuaded him to take the morally indefensible action of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan in order to avoid getting into the kind of never-ending Asian land war/occupation we've allowed ourselves to be drawn into in the past 5 years). Empires are built to die--usually of a combination of inner dry rot (vis: a largely passive electorate) and outer overextension (vis: a $600 million dollar embassy/mortar target now being built with your tax dollars in Baghdad).

This republic was built to last--based upon unity and principle. Both are in extremely short supply. It will be interesting to see if the left and the right can stop squeeling at each other long enough to see what an incredibly amoral and utterly inept group of charlatans is at the helm of the very expensive B-movie we call the United States Government today--and agree on enough core principle to unite and do something about it.

Posted by: tomc at September 23, 2007 10:58 AM

"But after awhile, the grief and rage faded, and we went months and then years without being hit again on our soil. Partly because we took the war to the enemy, remember? It wasn't enough to simply play whack-a-mole with individual terrorists; we had to take down the regimes that supported them."

Uhuh. Took "A" war to someone entirely different, because Bush actually knew where THEY lived and had a reasonable chance to make a huge showy mess of carnage, thus really impressing the very poorly informed and apparently easily confused man on the street, many of whom actually seem to think Saddam and Bin Laden were the same person.

We have a comedy team in Australia called The Chaser, and they sent a roving reporter to the states to interview the average person on the street. During a discussion about the war, they slipped in the question: "And what do you think of Barack Obama?" And the replies were things like "He should be killed, along with all of his terrorist kind." "He should be executed."
!!
But I don't think Obama really has anything to worry about, since they obviously have no idea who he actually IS! He probably wont get their vote, though. ;)

Posted by: Loob at September 24, 2007 4:35 PM


"By the way, this administration didn't "bring the war to the enemy", they engineered a situation in a country that did not attack the US that every leading foreign policy expert in the world (except those paid by said administration) believes has created more willing enemy combatants than the past 10 years of Al Qaida propganda."


To most thinking people from my side of the world, this statement is as obvious as a goat sitting in the living room. And yet it would seem a lot of Americans to this day have a problem grasping what, if you asked me, is one of the major sources of resentment we have towards America's official attitude to the world in general.


It's funny. But I suppose it is hard to see things from a bird's eye perspective when the country you live in is so big.


I live in a predominantly Muslim country halfway around the world from yours. When the US invaded Afghanistan nobody I know protested. But when your President decided to roll into Iraq, it was the start of a long and continuing season of distrust which could take decades for America to overcome. Today, not only do neither my friends nor I believe a word the American Government says, we view every statement with skepticism (ie, "What's in it for them this time?").


Why are so many people in the world today so pissed off with the US? Let me list things from my perspective:


America is a bully who is not shy about beating up another child who is not only half his size, but also has had both hands tied around his back (remember that Iraq's military had been on their knees for 10 years prior to the invasion).


Not only that, America has shown it that has no reservations about gloating for the bullying.


It has also shown that it will concoct any excuse just so it can have its war with anyone it pleases.


America and Britain went to war based on lies. It's now common knowledge. And yet we are still waiting for an official acknowledgment. And for the people responsible to be charged in international criminal courts.


America is a hypocrite: denouncing terror while reserving the right to inflict terror on other people whenever it suits them.


There are other reasons, but basically what this rage is, is the rage of the powerless in the face of a seemingly invincible presence who has shown it can and will do as it pleases without regard.


I admire America for many things: its dynamism, entrepreneurialism, the vast freedoms that it gives its citizens. But when the US General announced his shock and awe tactic, people in my country (I live in Malaysia) were indeed shocked and awed, that such a monstrous thing could be inflicted by what we had been thinking was an advanced civilisation. And so we felt betrayed.

Posted by: Ruhayat at October 1, 2007 12:55 PM

this comment is mostly to test what i can do with html tags here.
As a conservative I would be offended by this crap that attacks Bush if he was conservative also. But he isn't. If anyone can point out any substansive difference between Bush and John Kennedy I would be happy to hear it. Forty years ago both Bushs would have been demos and considered fairly liberal ones at that.

Posted by: EricD at October 7, 2007 5:05 PM