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My Parents Sent Me to Summer Camp and All I Got Was This Debilitating Spiritual Trauma

Jesus Camp / Daniel Carlson

Film Reviews | October 3, 2006 | Comments (79)


In the interest of full disclosure and by way of confession, I should state right here at the beginning that I grew up in fairly conservative church in Texas. I know what it’s like to come of age in an evangelical/fundamentalist environment, to go through puberty with triple the usual guilt. I’ve grown up a lot since then, which is one of the many reasons I now live 1,500 miles away from my childhood home, but trust me when I say that the brand of Christianity advertised and practiced in Jesus Camp, a new documentary from co-directors Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, is in no way indicative of the hundreds — likely thousands — of emotionally stable and globally minded people of faith who are doing their best to live simple, good lives across the country. The film is a startling look at a few extreme evangelicals who home-school their kids and send them in the summer to a week-long Bible camp in North Dakota, where they listen to the fiery sermons of Beck Fischer, the Pentecostal pastor who runs the place and sees it as her duty to train up children in the way they should go, specifically to be part of the Lord’s army. Army for what? Well, for reclaiming America. While the film is an illuminating look into a growing niche of hard-line faith, it’s also a jaw-dropping and often sad look at the kids caught in the middle. It is, for lack of a better word, unsettling.

The story unfolds over the brief period between Sandra Day O’Connor’s resignation from the U.S. Supreme Court in July 2005 and Samuel Alito’s confirmation to the Court in January 2006. But Ewing and Grady never show the news clips, opting instead to let snatches of radio broadcasts set the scene while the camera travels through Lee’s Summit, Missouri, where Fischer is based. At the Children’s Prayer Conference, Fischer takes the pulpit and exhorts a room full of kids, the oldest around 12, to be prepared to take back the nation and to surrender to God. Fischer doesn’t quote any bit of Scripture in her homily, and won’t the entire film: She doubtless owns a Bible, but she never opens it to preach. Eventually the kids stand and cluster together near the stage, arms raised, eyes closed, praying in tongues and crying openly. It’s one of the many scenes where I found myself reflexively looking away, and not out of embarrassment or shame, though I suppose there were elements of those involved. No, it’s because these children, like it or not, are going through an emotionally trying experience, and to see them in such a vulnerable state is more than a little disquieting. I looked away out of respect for the kids.

Ewing and Grady cut from the church scenes to the studio of Mike Papantonio, a DJ with Air America who co-hosts the “Ring of Fire” talk show. Papantonio professes a Christian faith but has strong issues with the way extreme evangelicals are growing more involved in divisive political practices. His voice is in direct contrast with the rest of the film’s subjects.

The real action starts, though, at Fischer’s annual Kids on Fire camp at Devils Lake, North Dakota, where campers are treated to hour-long sermons and a host of classes designed not to recruit them into the faith but to train them to speak out against abortion. The kids at the camp eagerly listen to a barrage of seemingly unconnected talking points that have little to do with applied religious belief and everything to do with voting patterns, and it quickly becomes clear that Fischer’s gospel is about political activism, not salvation.

Ewing and Grady follow three main kids before, at, and after the camp: Rachael, a smart and energetic nine-year-old who will approach strangers and begin proselytizing; Tory, a 10-year-old who likes music and dancing but worries about using her gifts “for the flesh” instead of for God; and Levi, a 12-year-old with a rat-tail who enjoys preaching and was saved at age five because he wanted more out of life (I wore Velcro shoes when I was that age, and this kid made a decision about his immortal soul). Watching Rachael approach a random woman at a bowling alley to offer her a tract and tell her that God wants her to live a good life, which you’d think would just be cute and weird and kind of misguided, turns out to be deeply unnerving. When I finally figured out why, I was annoyed at the simplicity of the answer: Rachael’s just a kid. Most fourth-graders are content to deal with playground politics, spelling tests, and other standard problems. But Rachael seems to be playing a part of which she has no genuine understanding. Kids are a lot of things, but perceptive and far-sighted aren’t on the list; I could never shake the feeling that Rachael and the rest were just doing what they were doing because the adults told them it would be good to do so.

At one point, a cardboard cutout of President Bush is propped up on stage before the kids, who pray blessings over him and his leadership. Now, whether Fischer would have the kids do the same for a Clinton mock-up is something we’ll never know, though I’d like to believe her when she says that praying over leaders is “just a thing we do as Christians.” Still, she also speaks highly of Bush, saying that he’s “brought a lot of credibility to the faith,” and mentions that the past few years under Bush’s leadership have been among the best eras for modern Christianity in her lifetime. The kids even hear a guest speaker, who hammers home his anti-abortion message until the children are weeping openly and obediently standing before him as he places over their mouth a piece of red masking tape, upon which is scrawled the word “Life.” (And yes, he reads them Horton Hears a Who and quotes “A person’s a person, no matter how small,” another in the long list to pervert Dr. Seuss’ classic.) I was sick to my stomach, but also moved by one young boy who spoke to the group about how he tried so hard to be good but still had doubts about what he was being taught. This kid wanted so badly to be what the grownups were telling him to be, and it was killing him that he couldn’t measure up.

After the camp, Ewing and Grady pay a visit to New Life Church in Colorado Springs, a town that’s one of the current hotbeds of the evangelical movement in America. The pastor, Ted Haggard, is president of the National Association of Evangelicals, and he talks regularly with Bush. He makes a couple jokes into the camera, but there’s an uneasy sneer in his manner and a barely masked condescension for what he suspects Ewing and Grady of trying to do. Haggard has since dismissed Jesus Camp as manipulating facts “like a Michael Moore film,” which shows that he certainly knows how to push the hot-buttons among his parishioners.

Jesus Camp, like a lot of documentaries, is shot on video, but it’s also presented in full-frame, a refreshing choice that wordlessly highlights the immediacy and reality of the situation; it’s as if all this stuff was going to happen anyway, and Ewing and Grady just pointed a camera at it. The film attempts to cover a lot of territory and mostly succeeds, though at one point it begins to feel like Ewing and Grady are trading on popular preconceptions of evangelicals instead of mapping any logical link between home school and fundamentalists and full-on government-level religious infiltration. The strongest moments of the film are the small moments where the kids’ actual personalities come through, as in the scene where Levi and the rest of the boys at camp joke around and tell ghost stories, enjoying a brief taste of relaxed adolescence before one of the adult chaperones enters the room and warns the boys about how ghost stories don’t honor God. The boys quiet down then but, more importantly, the light goes out of their eyes.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a low-level employee at a Hollywood industry magazine. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.


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Comments

Good on you Daniel, I don't think I could have sat through it. Hopefully some Evangelicals sit through it and ask questions about the extremeists in their faith.

Posted by: Tina at October 1, 2006 2:35 AM

I was raised Catholic, but had a lot of friends who were evangelicals and I'd go to church or camps with them. This film does not reflect the kind of christians they were, but at one of the bible camps I went to they showed us a film that was a cartoon about a man who had to 'sacrifice' his 8 year old son to save a train full of people. I don't think scaring children or manipulating them emotionally helps them be better christians or improves their faith; it only makes them scared and manipulated. I feel for these children, and I'll keep them in my thoughts and prayers. I have nothing but contempt for the adults letting this happen to them.

Posted by: Genny at October 1, 2006 3:39 AM

The story/cartoon that Genny mentioned is a common one. I attended a (comparatively mild) church camp for a few years during elementary school. They told that one, along with other variations. I come from an agnostic family and I remember feeling incredibly torn. The people there definitely tried to emotionally manipulate the children. I just ended up being very frightened - for awhile I wanted to believe what they had told me, but after a few weeks it would wear off. It IS frightening that kids can be manipulated like that, and it's especially easy when they're away from their parents.



Kudos for a good review! This sounds highly interesting. I almost want to see it, but I'm not sure if I could deal with some of the stuff you described.

Posted by: Nora at October 1, 2006 3:58 AM

Chilling. Takes one back, doesn't it?

Posted by: Jon F. at October 1, 2006 4:35 AM

Great review Dan, great review.

Posted by: Kevin at October 1, 2006 4:38 AM

I feel so sorry for those kids.

Nothing good can come of the "my way or the highway" approach to anything, even religion.

If kids don't learn tolerance and acceptance when they're that age, they'll have a very hard time learning it later (if ever).

How can adults do this to their kids and then say "OK, go out into the real world!" Talk about sacrificing your kid.

Posted by: Nancy at October 1, 2006 10:30 AM

Stephen King once made an observation about the "cry" scenes in Disney movies that seems appropriate here...He said that traumatizing little kids is like shooting fish in a barrel. And he was absolutely right.

I was also raised fundamentalist--not 24-7 crazy, but I did get a taste or two of this kind of indoctrination. It scared me plenty (I can identify with a lot of the comments above) but it didn't do me any permanent damage.

People who find this subject interesting should take a look at this article:

http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/post_1.php

(I hope the comments area supports links...If not, copy and paste into your browser.)

Posted by: Jerce at October 1, 2006 12:35 PM

"I don't think scaring children or manipulating them emotionally helps them be better christians or improves their faith; it only makes them scared and manipulated"

Thanks Genny, I don't think I could have said it better myself. I grew up in a family that preached a strong faith but I was never subjected to shit like that. I think my mom would have dragged me out in a second out of a place that made me cry like that ... I haven't seen the movie .. just clips of it and it was a bit disturbing.

Great Review; honest, respectful and straight to the heart of the matter.

Posted by: Maria at October 1, 2006 6:54 PM

The only part of this I object to is the inclusion of "home-school" as though its only for hardline Christians to use to brainwash small children.

My mother homeschools my brother because he has social issues, and she does it without involking religion at all. Its very difficult for them to find schoolbooks that aren't explicitely religious, but them and plenty of other reasonable folk do thier best to homeschool without preaching.

Unfortunately, the extremists use homeschooling to enforce thier beliefs to the point of intolerance, and give all homeschooling a bad name.

Posted by: ~Moi~ at October 1, 2006 7:18 PM

I used to attend Life2000 when I was younger, back when the songs were still fairly folksey and not as mainstream as they were today. And kids (we were something like 16 at the time) used to stand up and give testimonials. Sure, every now and then they had a guest speaker who actually had lived a life that might have needed some forgiveness, but all in all, I used to wonder what the hell could a 15 year old from the suburb (with no imagination) do that was so horrible?

The idea of a 9 year old doing the same thing . . . baffles me. Aren't kids supposed to be innocent?

Posted by: Rowen at October 1, 2006 11:42 PM

Fantastic, fair, and sensitive review. I couldn't have sat through this movie. For any none-Christians out there, whatever the past trespasses of the Christian faith are (and they are numerous, just like every other religion) please please please know that people of faith like Beck Fischer are the minority, and that, like Daniel said,

"it is in no way indicative of the hundreds -- likely thousands -- of emotionally stable and globally minded people of faith that are doing their best to live simple, good lives across the country."

If its any consolation, lots of non-hardline Christians hate these people as much as I'd imagine many of you do.

Posted by: Matt 2.0 at October 1, 2006 11:48 PM

Oh, and I'm aware that 'hate' is not a feeling Christians are supposed to harbor. I just figured I'd be as honest as possible about the emotions involved in this, so long as everyone's putting their cards on the table.

Posted by: Matt 2.0 at October 1, 2006 11:53 PM

"No, it's because these children, like it or not, are going through an emotionally trying experience, and to see them in such a vulnerable state is more than a little disquieting. I looked away out of respect for the kids."

I'm sure soon enough I'll be reading another one of your reviews and laughing my ass off over the scathing bitchiness that we all love about you, but I wanted to say that this whole review and the bit quoted above moved me a lot. We hear "think of the children" used as a rallying cry so often that it's become meaningless, so it's good to know that good people do in fact, still think of the children.

Posted by: telesilla at October 2, 2006 1:55 AM

These crazy fundamentalist groups are responsible for the perception that all Christians are toungue-talking, hippy-home-schooling, right-wigned nut jobs. I'm a Christian. A NORMAL one. The perversion of our faith (or anyone else's for that matter) and media cartooning of it enrages me to to end. My fear with this movie is that others will look at it as yet another example of what those "psycho" Christians are all about.

Posted by: courtney at October 2, 2006 10:54 AM

I caught the tail-end of an interview on Good Morning America with that Beck Fischer and thought she looked familiar, but figured that was just because all the wacked-out extremists start to look alike. I had no idea that it was actually because she heads the camp that is located in my hometown!!! I was horrified by the clips that they showed on tv. It really sickens me that these adults can use such blatant brainwashing and not think that there's anything wrong with that. I thought you did an excellent review. I know I will have to watch this...but I dread it. I really do.

Posted by: stacie at October 2, 2006 12:34 PM

BTW: the hometown in question is actually Devils Lake (no apostrophe). Everyone misspells it.

Posted by: stacie at October 2, 2006 12:38 PM

Devils Lake...ironic location for a Christian camp, no?

Posted by: Matt at October 2, 2006 1:36 PM

Daniel, thank you so much for such a sensitive review. I appreciate you being able to look at this film without a bias, but also present that there are others who believe differently. At first I was kind of angry that extremist Christians get the spotlight again, making the rest of us look bad and all that, but then I remembered that during the time of the early church, Romans thought that Christians were cannibals because they ate the flesh of Christ and drank his blood (communion). So, I guess, Cheers to a long history of being misunderstood! :)

Posted by: Melanie at October 2, 2006 4:12 PM

I haven't seen the movie, either, and I don't plan too; it's too disturbing. However, I do say I love (sarcasm intended) the clip of Beck Fisher justifying her program by claiming it's in reaction to Muslim extremist terrorist camps. I also firmly believe Fisher and her ilk are not Christians, no matter what their symbolism or who they claim to worship.

Moi-I don't think Daniel was bashing the kind of home-schooling, such as your brother requies. Instead, he's referring to the sudden explosion of home-schoolers whose parents don't want them to be spiritually polluted by all us Jew-loving, drug-using, tree-hugging nyphomaniacs.

Posted by: The White Peacock at October 2, 2006 4:16 PM

Jesus fucking Christ.

Posted by: Maryscott O'Connor at October 2, 2006 5:13 PM

May I paraphrase (because I don't know the EXACT line) Max von Sydow in Hannah and Her Sisters?

"If Jesus Christ came back today and saw all the shit that's been going on in his name, he would never stop throwing up."

Posted by: Maryscott O'Connor at October 2, 2006 5:14 PM

i've been waiting to see this for MONTHS, and it's already come and gone from LA and i had to miss it. :(

which i suppose wasn't worth writing here, but it's REALLY UPSETTING, DAMMIT.

Posted by: S at October 2, 2006 7:42 PM

Nancy, that quote and link were fantastic. I read the whole thing, nodding along as I recognized scenes and feelings from my own life. There's more than I can say in a single paragraph about the process of deconversion, and subsequent nostalgia mixed with horror that's induced by reminiscing about the life you used to have.

I'll just say this: I was raised to believe that if one verse of the Bible was not true, or if one microscopic shred of evidence for evolution could be proven, etc., etc., that we might as well throw the whole mess out. Well, those things did (of course) turn out to be different that what we'd been taught, and I did what I'd been taught to do at that point: I threw the whole mess out, at once. Only recently have I examined spirituality in a more flexible, open-minded light.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: when kids are taught a set of inflexible principles, they'll last only as long as they're in a culture that supports those rigid memetic constructs, based in willful denial of new information.

The twig that refuses to bend, breaks most easily.

Posted by: Ben at October 2, 2006 7:43 PM

Courntney wrote: "the perversion of our faith (or anyone else's for that matter) and media cartooning of it enrages me to to end."

Faith in some 'higher being' is a cartoon, and noone perverts it more than us americans. Thanking 'god' for making them run fast, making them rich, making them(believe) they are better than everyone else.

In a thousand years, I can just see people worshipping The Simpsons with the same blind fanaticism as ALL religions are today.

If you are good, when you die you will go to Springfield. But if you are bad, you will go to Shelbyville.

Religious people of all persuasions really just need to wake up. Try having faith in yourself to guide you, love you and help you to make the right decisions.

All of you have been brainwashed, just like the kids in this movie(i too had to look away). Just in a more subtle way.

Posted by: Larry at October 2, 2006 7:51 PM

See, everything was going fine, then Larry had to be a cock.

Posted by: Ray at October 2, 2006 7:54 PM

Yes i'm sorry.

It will probably start a riot or a shooting rampage won't it.

KILL ANYONE WHO BELIEVES SOMETHING DIFFERENT OR DOESN'T BELIEVE AT ALL. THEY ARE NOTHING COMPARED TO YOU!!

Posted by: Larry at October 2, 2006 8:01 PM

"See, everything was going fine, then Larry had to be a cock."

Amen.

Posted by: Joanne at October 2, 2006 8:09 PM

Starling? This movie is a chunky, medium-sized European passerine bird, Sturnus vulgaris, of iridescent black plumage with seasonal speckles, that nests in colonies: introduced into North America (courtesy of dictionary.com). And might I say, you Daniel have beautiful plumage!

To say that this movie is disturbing would be to make a grand understatement. It is sickening beyond words what these crazy assholes are doing to innocent children. To echo many of the sentiments posted, how in the bloody hell would any parent justify the brainwashing of their children. To make them fear, to manipulate them, to destroy that which makes them children. They are not just annihilating the potential personality of these kids, they are scorching and scarring their very souls. If there is a God, he will fittingly punish these bastards and let them see the errors of their ways. And since I'm probably going to Hell, it will be nice to know that people like this get the punishment they deserve. In my torment, I'll at least get the satisfaction of seeing the looks of surprise and agony on their faces as they finally realize what they have done. It is a small consolation for the damage they will have done in their mortal lives, though. One can't help but hope that these kids grow up and learn to think for themselves.

Posted by: ScarletKnight at October 2, 2006 8:18 PM

Yeah, again, Larry, not quite the point. The thread had been relatively peaceful so far, or at least full of people who could think and type and read and express their opinions with balance. The Christians who'd chimed in were the opposite of the brainwashed, antagonistic stereotype you're advertising. The point is to move away from the polarized, hateful split that's being promoted by right- and left-wing extremists.

So, you know, stop being a cock.

Posted by: Ray at October 2, 2006 8:21 PM

Caught and corrected, ScarletKnight, with much thanks.

Posted by: Daniel at October 2, 2006 8:24 PM

I can't wait to see this movie. When I was in second grade I attended the obligatory parochial service of my school. What the Episcopal minister said made me feel that my obligation to God was to kill myself so he would have a pure soul in Heaven. I went home and took a kitchen knife and hid below the dining room table. I wanted to do as I was told. I was saved by my selfishness and the surety that there would be many amazing days ahead. Regardless of religon, statements are made from high authority which can change our lives. Let us hope we use our own personalities to deterrmine which statements are valid.

Posted by: amy at October 2, 2006 10:08 PM

quick question -- I thought the byline to this review was different than what it reads now...did you change it in the last few days? otherwise I fear for my sanity...

Posted by: melia at October 2, 2006 10:13 PM

Larry:

What I've gathered from your capitalized outburst is that you're angry because of the intolerance of Christianity (which is, in itself, a large generalization) and yet just a few posts before that you were telling them to "wake up" and that they're "brainwashed." Are you really that unaware of your own intolerance?

Look, what's happening to these kids is horrible, unsettling at best, but just as Dan wrote in his review this isn't happening in every Christian household---not even a majority. You have to calm down and heed your own advice of tolerance.

Posted by: Kevin at October 2, 2006 10:33 PM

No i am very aware of my own intolerance and fight with myself daily not to judge people on apearance, values, religion etc.

But that doesn't change the fact intelligent, educated free thinking (maybe just free) people let their lives be shaped (and try to shape others) by what are essentially fairy tales. When those beliefs are taken to the extreme as shown iin this movie, it makes me mad.

I chose to vent on Pajiba today, probably not the best place. Hopefully it breaks the shackles in someones mind.

Posted by: Larry at October 2, 2006 10:52 PM

When anything is taken to the extreme it's bad, that's why it's extreme. Moderation, my fellow Pajibian, moderation.

Posted by: Kevin at October 2, 2006 11:42 PM

Thank you so much for your review. I'm a high school kid and I see a lot of this, how adults, wether intentionally or unconciously, use their children. I'm always incredibly unsettled when I see people my age and younger professing to know the right and proper path, and swearing to turn the whole world down it no matter what it takes. At its worst, this feels like a kind of religious prostitution, and it terrifies me that the practice of forcing children to prostelytize has become so socially accepted. Anyways, thanks for making me feel a little more justified.

Posted by: kiki at October 3, 2006 12:31 AM

"but trust me when I say that the brand of Christianity advertised and practiced in Jesus Camp, ... is in no way indicative of the hundreds -- likely thousands -- of emotionally stable and globally minded people of faith who are doing their best to live simple, good lives across the country."

That disclaimer reminds me of when Colbert used to do "This Week in God" on the Daily Show and he'd get to Islam and say "Islam!...Which i respect profoundly." Great.

Posted by: Noel at October 3, 2006 1:17 AM

i really appreciated the fact that you didn't generalize all evangelical christians as ones shown in "jesus camp". i am a christian myself, but reading this review made me cringe and sad at the same time b/c i know such people exist.

Posted by: altec at October 3, 2006 1:45 AM

As if kids didn't have enough shit to deal with nowadays...they have to worry about their immortal souls, abortion, and cardboard cutouts of Dubya. Awesome!

...and fucking with "Horton" to turn it into something about fetuses? Fucking disgusting.

Posted by: em at October 3, 2006 10:22 AM

When I was in my [fundie Baptist] elementary school, they told us that eventually kids would worship Santa Claus if they weren't shown the "right way". I think it's hilarious that Larry reached such a similar conclusion from the complete opposite pole of belief ("The Simpsons" hadn't been invented yet--yeah, I'm old).

That said, I could never see a movie like this--too many memories of being taught to "witness" at age 7. To this day I hate the apocalypse (more than most, I mean!).

Posted by: gloom raider at October 3, 2006 10:35 AM

Disclaimer: I say the following knowing well that these people do not represent the whole of Christianity. I have uber-Catholic/Christian friends that are not this insane.

Kids =/= political pawns. Unfortunately, the slogan seems to be "Get 'em while they're young." They're malleable, easy to scare and manipulate.

The comparison to Muslim terrorist camps is apt. These kids will be tomorrow's domestic terrorists.

This frightens me because when these kids get older and they're not exposed to differing cultures and thought processes and opinions, they're going to be the ones that think that it's okay to blow up an abortion clinic and shoot the doctors. They will be the ones going to third-world countries and dangle food and necessities in front of them and demand that they renounce their previous faith and cross over to Christianity. They will be the ones that will completely reverse any progress that has been made.

"A person is a person, no matter how small - unless they do things you don't agree with or believe in a different invisible man than you."

Indeed.

By the way, I don't think Dr. Seuss would be appreciative of his books used in such a fashion. He didn't even like kids.

Posted by: EMTQueen at October 3, 2006 11:53 AM

Thankfully, Larry has shown me the error of my stupidity. I can now live a life free of guilt, faith, and wonderment [sp?] as an atheist. Were it not for benevolent souls like Larry, who are clearly more emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually developed than plebes like me, the rest of us would be forced to wallow in the hideous ignorance in what [I thought until today] was a well-thought out, knowing and intelligent choice to believe. Kudos, Larry. Kudos. Your venting has changed my life forever. Who knew that only a couple of lines of griping could make a hardened looney like me reconsider beliefs that have taken my entire adult life to develop? It was your voice that made me realize I was only following the teachings of lunatics before me and that believing in a higher power could only be the result of an inability to think for myself. How did I go on before?

Posted by: Kitty X at October 3, 2006 12:47 PM

What's really horrible is that there is nothing that can be said or done to those people to convince them that what they are doing to those kids is wrong. The strong ones will throw off their shackles and rebel... maybe smoke some weed, have some sex, move FAR AWAY....but I fear the majority of them will grow up to twist and warp the souls/minds of their children. I see it all the time. I live in the South, in the Bible Belt. It is nothing short of grotesque to watch these sacks of assholes preach their hellfire and brimstone under the hot Florida sun..... with their kids right next to them on the pavement. And yes, they get away with it. Because who gives a shit about prickly heat or sunstroke when you're doing THE LORD'S work, right?

Posted by: 'Leen at October 3, 2006 1:06 PM

To Matt 2.0, it is ok to hate...the saying goes "love the sinner, hate the sin."

ScarletKnight - the words of my Lord, "And if anyone causes one of these litle ones who belive in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone ties around his neck." They will pay for what they are doing...just like everybody else.

The core of the message is to love one another, and to have compassion for each other, so shooting doctors who practise abortions and blowing up abortion clincis, is not following any of the basic beliefs of the Church. And it makes me sick to know that people like this in my faith, pervert the message and use it for their own agendas. But like it or not, for every religion there are always extremists since the beginning of recorded history. Even for the non-religous there are extremist groups trying to promote their own agenda. What is new about this???

Hey Larry - Last time I checked the same Amendment that allows you to speak out in words and print also gives everybody else the right to worship or not as they see fit and since a large majority of people from every country and every continent, from when humans started recording our own history, believes in a higher power, who is the misguided one. So stop being a cock!!!

Great review, this is why I keep coming back to your site. While I don't agree with you on so many topics, you are all entertaining and excellent writers.

Posted by: G40 at October 3, 2006 1:33 PM

Haha, it's misguided to not believe in a higher power just because lots of other people do? Don't be ridiculous. Lots of people believing something to be true has absolutely no bearing on its ultimate truth value. While I don't agree with Larry's approach, I would beseech you to acquire some basic logic.

Posted by: Alex at October 3, 2006 2:07 PM

Just to play the devil's advocate (no pun intended), I'd like to point out that many of those parents who are brainwashing their kids are doing it because they were subjected to the same kind of brainwashing themselves. They don't know anything different and probably don't much examine their premises. They live in terror of their children giving over to temptations and heading down the path to hell. This doesn't make what they're doing right, of course, but it is a very human response. I feel badly for all of them.

My brother and I were never subjected to the kind of treatment that Mr. Carlson describes (I haven't seen the movie yet, but, having grown up in the Bible Belt, I can well imagine it), but we were raised in a conservative, fire-and-brimstone Baptist church. Once we were old enough to think for ourselves, I became a more-or-less agnostic (I'm convinced my family and their church are wrong about everything, but not arrogant enough to say I have all the answers either), and my brother became a devout atheist.

Anyway, nice work here as usual, Mr. Carlson, bringing context and balance to the subject while acknowledging that what these people do to their kids is pretty frickin' disgusting.

Posted by: Tim at October 3, 2006 3:14 PM

Larry: have peace with your own belief system, and don't worry about anyone else's. I go to church, and pray, and volunteer because it feels right to me. I don't use my faith as a sword against others, and I don't see it as a ticket to heaven, or a ticket out of hell, or anything else. I am well aware of, and comfortable with, the probability that death will simply turn my body to dust and that nothing of me will continue. But for now, while I'm here, I'm going to stick with what feels right to me.

And I fully respect your right to do the same.

All that good stuff aside, the people in this documentary scare the shit out of me. If there is a heaven, and some cosmic irony causes to me to be stuck for eternity with these Jesus jihadists, I am going to feel really, really foolish.

Posted by: Mustang Sally at October 3, 2006 3:34 PM

I was in a bus earlier today, sitting in front of two college-age girls. One was telling the other (very loudly) of how good it felt to tell another girl of the Gospel, and save her soul.

A few hours later, I read this review.

I've always been uncomfortable with fundamentalists (of any persuasion, and believe me, there are many--even of the atheistic kind), partly because of the tolerant religious atmosphere I was raised in. And this film reminds me of why I get the heebie-jeebies around them.

And I (never thought I'd say this!) appreciate my parents now, since they sure as heck didn't force me to believe in any religion (professed my faith in my 20s after years as a searching agnostic), much less subject me to the emotional torture these kids go through.

Thanks for this sensitive, stirring review. I sure hope they show that docu here. Slim chance, though.

(PS. You got it right, Mustang Sally.)

Posted by: pj at October 4, 2006 4:03 AM

Something I originally found the link to on Slowly Going Bald, Dan Carlson's blog...thought it might have a fun audience here.

http://www.armorofgodpjs.com/

Posted by: Kevin at October 4, 2006 4:25 AM

Sorry, but is there any difference between the people described in this movie, and "normal" parents nowadays who raise their children with TV sets, supply minors with alcohol to be the cool parent, buy 15 year olds revealing clothing, or those who make catalogs for places like Abercrombie which borders on soft core porn?

Hell, it took me a while to realize it, but the old cartoon Captain Planet was nothing but a show meant to indoctrine kids to assume that all corporations do is destroy the earth and spread toxic waste around. Then they expected me to believe that a kids with special rings that allow them to basically resort to eco-terrorism to accomplish their goals isn't some sort of indoctrinization? (And how would you feel to be the South American kid with the heart ring, huh? The american gets a ring that shoots fire, one that controls wind, and I get stuck with the lousy frickin heart ring? I'd have been pretty pissed.)

or, even worse in my opinion, is a store in a mall in my city called Club Libby Lou. The store is geared towards 6-11 year old girls, and the window displays feature girls of that age with prom-night hair, make up, lip gloss, and the ever popular tight black pants adorned by college kids everywhere.

They give them headsets like Xtina or britney, and take pictures and parade large groups of them around the mall for birthdays and othe functions.

Is there really any difference between the parents who let their kids go to a religious camp and the alternative parents who dress their kids up like tramps and try to be their friends by refusing to set boundaries, to the extent of encouraging malicious behavior?

From the sound of the people on this board, and from those I have met in real life, including myself, who was a member of the Missouri Lutheran synod., one of the more "conservative" branches of christianity out there (conservative to the extent that a new pastor told some kids that their jewish friends were going to hell), what happens to these kids now won't have that profound effect on their lives, other than perhaps resorting to pot at 13 instead of 17. Time heals all wounds, and if you ask me, the moment those kids get the chance they will move onto bigger and better things, albeit with some of the better morals and ideals to be skimmed from the surface of something deeper and apparently darker. Hopefully. Just remember, there's nothing wrong with the ten commandments.

Posted by: Some guy at October 4, 2006 7:24 AM

"Just remember, there's nothing wrong with the ten commandments."

Aside from
1) You shall have no other gods before me.
2)You shall not make for yourself an idol...
3)You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God...
4)Remember the Sabbath, and keep it holy...
Fairly jingoistic and pretty damn offensive towards most other religions. Gestures of control rather than faith in a benevolent power.

5)Honor your father and your mother...
Needs a few caveats as regards abusive parents

Murder, adultery, stealing, lying, and coveting of all kinds are things I have no problem with being generally against. But then they kinda get covered by
'do unto others as you would have done unto you'
or to put it in another way
'an it harm none so mote it be'

so I'd say that for the most part the 10 commandments are an out of date throwback to the vengeful god of Hebrew scripture that Christians should, by definition, believe was superceeded by Christ's teachings of well love, respect, tolerance, and community.

Fuck the 10 commandments and I'll take that 1 commandment, any version of it, thanks very much.

Yours sincerely
a lapsed catholic

Posted by: Paul at October 4, 2006 7:52 AM

Yeah, but you forget that it's just a template. Every religion has their own version of the ten commandments, and they can certainly be ammended to fit ones own beliefs.

I would think you were right if they said to cut off the heads of the nonbelievers after 1-4, but they don't. at least not in the christian ten commandments...

Posted by: Some guy at October 4, 2006 9:38 AM

"Every religion has their own version of the ten commandments, and they can certainly be ammended to fit ones own beliefs."

I agree with you here--but I don't think that's what the people in the movie are doing. They aren't amending any template to fit their own beliefs--they are taking advantage of the idea of a "higher power" and encouraging 9-year-old to talk about abortion--fucking abortion!!--to adults. They're stretching it, taking things too literally, etc., and that is wrong, IMO.

Also, I completely get what you said about the parents who don't have boundaries with their kids, etc.--but it can also be said that these psycho Christian (and I say that as a practicing Catholic who has been told many times by a born-again friend to "abandon my homosexual friends, who will drag me down to hell") parents aren't giving their kids boundaries either. Not giving them boundaries to act within as a child--not giving them the opportunity to act as, essentially, children, with nothing to worry about but baking cookies and trying to do their reading assignments and go to birthday parties. Both extremes are fucking horrible.

You can also argue that yes, maybe these psycho Christian parents are instilling values in their kids and they can walk away being better adjusted, etc., but it's still the wrong way to teach morals. I'm not saying that I'd rather have my kid dress like an adult at the age of 11 over having morals, but damn, there's a way to instill morals AND earn your kid's respect without scaring the shit out of them or letting them get away with murder.

Posted by: em at October 4, 2006 10:32 AM

After the camp, Ewing and Grady pay a visit to New Life Church in Colorado Springs, a town that's one of the current hotbeds of the evangelical movement in America.

As a resident of Colorado Springs, I would just like to say that while the right-wing Christian leaders at New Life Church and Focus on the Family are big influences here, there are just as many people who are either middle-of-the-road Christians who aren't going to get in your face about our faith, or hard-core agnostics and atheists. And don't forget the wiccans...

And even most of the people who are involved with New Life and Focus are not going to talk to you about their religion unless you ask. It's just that the leadership is very outspoken, and it gets more of a chance to be outspoken thanks to the current administration.

I just don't want people getting the wrong idea about Colorado Springs. It's not like we have crosses in front of city hall or even revival meetings on the weekends.

Posted by: Blades31 at October 4, 2006 3:02 PM

I haven't read all the comments, but I'm sure I'd agree with every single one. Im thirteen and at one point in my life I believed that the only difference between kids and adults was a couple of feet. And you know what, I know a couple who are like that, but in reality, i am so very very wrong. Im scared as to what this means because when these kids grow up, you know what their going to do, and it will just keep going or going until government action is taken, enough kids dissent until it descends in population, the world is taken over and after a few generations reverts back. I know it sounds far fetched but the implications of this could literally be a new world order for a thousand years or a brutal massacre or the suppression of technologies that could extend human life towards near immortality, save the lives of women who simply cannot support a baby no matter what they do or be forced to carry a child of rape or incest. Im pretty sure that the Christian god doesen't like incest or rape, cause my Jewish God sure doesen't. They make these blanket statements like no abortion or no gays because its "gods will". How do they know? Has he been talking to them over the phone? Did he leave you a voice mail? Or did you see his article in the newspaper? If anyone ever actually spoke to god within the pas 100 years im sure we'd all know about it. F*ck ethnic cleansing, f*ck anti abortion, f*ck anti gays. They were all put here for a reason and if god has ultimate power over the destiny of mankind why even bother making the option available. Simple logic states that god is either not good in our sense of the word, not all powerful, or is busy right now and will get back to you later. Diversity is paramount in the preservation of humanity and nature. Every religion has had their trespasses. The Christians had crusades, inquisitions, the holocaust(?), countless other massacres. The Muslims had a history of Jihad. It's not even restricted to religion. France had the Terrors, America had the Great Depression. All these things are just products of actions for a widely held ideal lent power by people and turned against them as they decide they dont need it anymore. Ideas are the true powers in the world, although a human creation and given power by people ideas are the only thing that separates people from each other. You cannot kill an idea but only vainly attempt to blot it out. I've found that looking closely at history, every single event in Human history is the result of Ideas and the power we give them. Im scared that such a power is rising in Evangelicalism and it can only end badly, ten, a hundred or a thousand years from now. I wonder how they justify that whole bunch of torture shenanigans the president has been up to lately. Must be all them damn Arabs and Jews working their gay abortionist witchcraft vodoo magic again

-Angst Filled Teen

Posted by: Anodyne at October 4, 2006 4:09 PM

I was raised Episcopalian when I was young, a good way to describe that would be Christianity for the left wing. Anyways, my girlfriend used to attend a fundamental Christian church. I was around 18 the first time I had ever been to a place like that. I must say, it is really scary, and 100% obvious that their main goal is one of politics, not faith. It really opened my eyes, to their hypocrisy. The last thing i want now is to be 'saved.' Jesus' word was one of love and tolerance for EVERYONE. That is what these people should preach.

Posted by: Joe B. at October 4, 2006 5:09 PM

Anyone interested in this topic in any way should check out this book called Blankets by Craig Thompson. It is an autobiographical 600 page graphic novel. It touches on many of the same topics as this movie (including a Jesus camp). It is probably one of the best books I've ever read.

http://www.amazon.com/Blankets-Craig-Thompson/dp/1891830430/sr=8-1/qid=1159996468/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4775724-4279829?ie=UTF8&s=books

Posted by: Yeah at October 4, 2006 5:17 PM

"Jesus' word was one of love and tolerance for EVERYONE. That is what these people should preach."

Funny how people can take the teachings of a man who (and the next section depends on your belief system, but well this is that I believe) touched and cured people with diseases, talked to prostitutes, stood up for social justice, and told his followers that "whatsoever you do for the least of my people, that you do unto me" and twist them around to make them that political, and im my opinion, make that part of "Christianity" elitist and hateful. (I know, I know, it's been done before...but come on. Haven't we learned?)

Also--angsty teen--I liked your post and especially the last sentence. It reminds me of this Simpsons episode where Flanders and a Catholic priest are feuding and at the end, Flanders says, "Let's fight our real enemies--monogomous gays and stem cells!"

Posted by: em at October 4, 2006 10:35 PM

I read this review and really find this film too damn scary!

How people get away with things like this is really beyond me. I hate this extremist types, but what I hate more is the sea of people that go to those congregations and really are mindless slaves who, saddly, can't think for themselves. Now, that's my view on the extreme take (I'm currently catholic but re-evaluating) and people can really believe what they want (like when Peter Griffin started the church of Fonzie) but don't fucking mess with the children.

Posted by: Hadez at October 4, 2006 11:56 PM

Yet another great review. Although I attended Catholic school for 15 years, I was lucky enough to attend schools that informed girls of birth control options and went in-depth into sexual education and world religions.

And we were allowed to tell ghost stories...

The fact that the Evangelical movement is recruiting children makes me extrememly sad. It truly is child exploitation. It's one thing to raise your children in a religious home. I think that can be done without sacrificing the right a child has to make decisions that eventually shape them as a person. But using scare tactics to recruit children into an army of Christians is deceptive... a very un-Christian act, I believe.

Posted by: Kristin at October 5, 2006 12:21 PM

Go 'head, Angsty! I hope I'm still around to see your generation take over. I hope you'll do a better job.

Posted by: 'Leen at October 5, 2006 12:25 PM

Devils Lake is the terrorist occupier (oops; pioneer) name for Mni Wakan: Spirit Water of the Turtle Mountain Tribe of Lakota (Sioux to christian devils). You may have heard of Leonard Peltier of said tribe, currently serving in the occupiers prison of Leavenworth for resisting said occupation.

Posted by: Ken at October 5, 2006 2:55 PM

Dear Angst-Filled Teen: I agreed with most of your post. It was well-thought out and displayed the workings of a good brain. Which is why I beseech you to learn a few things while you are young: grammar, punctuation, the difference between "their" and "they're" and the art of the complete sentence. Trust me: if you appear to be literate (hell, even semi-literate in today's society), your points will be better understood and have far more impact than a stream of badly punctuated and mis-spelled words. Good luck.

Posted by: Sandy Vagina at October 5, 2006 4:08 PM

Being all of two years older than "Angsty Teen", I must say I agree with you entirely. It may be because I am an agnostic, and so not religiously inclined (I don't understand faith, not really. I feel odd saying that, but I don't understand the blind faith that is required to follow some sort of evangelical path such as that.).

But I commend you for your post.

Posted by: ~Moi~ at October 5, 2006 7:26 PM

I've used - repeatedly and with gusto - the line "I'm a Christian, but not one of THOSE Christians." And I've heard it more and more from other Christians as the so-called Christian Right gets louder and louder.

Enough. Jesus came with the message that the kingdom of heaven was meant for all of humanity. Those of us who still listen intently for that loving message are now also moving politically, so I invite everyone to come and take a look at the Christian Alliance for Progress. You can find it at http://www.christianalliance.org.

Posted by: Katherine at October 6, 2006 11:16 AM

I grew up in the same kind of Texas town that Dan probably did, and for several summers I attended church camp in Madill, Oklahoma. Ours was mild compared to what's described in the review--I don't even remember abortion being mentioned--but we weren't allowed to wear shorts or sleeveless shirts (in July!), and the sexes were rigidly segregated for swimming.

I grew up going to the Church of Christ, but most of my friends were Baptists. I attended the Falls Creek retreat with some of them my sophomore year in high school, and from the instant the others learned I wasn't Baptist, they tried all weekend to witness and convert me. It's scary how much fervent energy these kids had.

I don't think I'll see this movie. It's a movie that needed to be made, but it'll bring back too many bad memories for me. But thank you for a well-written review.

Posted by: Noelegy at October 6, 2006 2:19 PM

At least Anodyne has a grasp of world history, unlike many American adults (including a certain President I know.) I've seen much worse sins against the English language in these comments. How hard is it to capitalize the proper pronoun "I"? Find the shift key people.

May the god of your choice bless you.

Posted by: biscuits at October 6, 2006 4:56 PM

Yaaaaay, they really like me! Which is wonderful because I really do want to be a writer when I grow up, although.......I'm not sure we have a choice to do a better job than you guys, cause no offense, but what the f*ck? I mean, if we don't blow each other up in the next few years through nuclear war or fall into economic chaos as oil is harder and harder to find, at least global warming can make the slate clean again so a billion years from now a race of lizard people can find some Gary Larson comics and have a good laugh, heck, maybe they'll find a Jurrasic Park DVD and make a religion about it. But seriously, I don't think that humanity has ever toyed with so many toys of destruction than in your generation. All it would take to end the world right now is literally nothing! If we stay the course in fifty years we'll all be dead. We are so far gone that we can't help but do something, I just hope we do something about it before then. And to get back on the subject, speaking of Christian corruption of the image of Jesus and his wonderful super happy fun time teachings, has anyone heard about the Vaticans crazy money laundering? Talk about hypocrisy, "Money is the root of all evil" my a*s. But in light of Jesus Camps, firebrand preachers, money laundering, nazi popes, the Crusades and all the other faults of Christianity, can they really help it? I mean, 33 percent of the world is Catholic, and then I dont even know how many protestants there are but I'm sure its at least 10 more percent, so, my point is here is that can you really blame them for all that? In an establishment that massively huge can you really not expect for something as corrupt as that to happen? Take the French Revolution for example. A beautiful cause arises. The working man is heavily taxed while the rich revel in the fruits of the earth and the vine and the King and Queen can't even complete their first responsibility, make an heir (they couldn't even get it on on their wedding night!). So and injustice unspeakable brings up the population of the entire country to opress the opressors but what happens in the end. Jean-Paul Marat, a political write and analyst alone credits at least 200 thousand deaths to himself (I'm not too sure about that one, something like that) not to mention Robespierre who single handedly brought on the Terror and Great Terror from the Beaches of Normandy to the French countryside. So even in one country, with a miniscule fraction of the population of the world had a beautiful message that was corrupt far more than anything the Christian church has ever done. What I'm saying is here that in any institution, religious, political, commercial or otherwise will have some level of corruption no matter what. So don't automatically condemn the church for their actions. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. I believe that applies to more than kinetic energy. There is plenty of good in the Christian church. Political Diplomacy, education in the middle ages (something infinitely important at that time and now), and come to think of it, hospitals, and shelters for all. Heck, I even heard Jesus healed some lepers once, what a guy.

-Not as Angst Filled as I was Before Teen

Posted by: Anodyne at October 6, 2006 10:48 PM

Woops, lots of grammer mistakes there, please forgive me.

Posted by: Anodyne at October 6, 2006 10:51 PM

"Sorry, but is there any difference between the people described in this movie, and "normal" parents nowadays who raise their children with TV sets, supply minors with alcohol to be the cool parent, buy 15 year olds revealing clothing, or those who make catalogs for places like Abercrombie which borders on soft core porn?"

If little girls aren't old enough to wear "revealing clothing", then they're certainly not old enough to be terrorized about abortion. Yeah, modern life indoctrinates you with a bunch of crap--but would you rather have brainwashing that corresponds to the 21st century, or the middle ages?

I'd rather my daughter wear ugly clothes and listen to whatever crap she wants, and still have most of her sense of self and reality intact, than have her be a weeping, proseytizing robot before she even learns to write in cursive.

Posted by: Vi at October 7, 2006 11:10 PM

And as for the photo accompanying this review--that little girl's being psychologically abused. No child should ever, ever be made to cry to God.

Posted by: Vi at October 7, 2006 11:12 PM

I'm probably not going to see this film. I already know what these evangelicals are like and what they do to kids. It would depress me horribly to actually see it.

And I want to thank those on this thread who understand not all Christians are like the people in this film. I used to think that went without saying, but apparently it doesn't anymore. I get so annoyed at people who use Jesus as a weapon. The Prince of Peace, no less! I hate it when people take what is (was?) a peaceful, loving belief system and pervert it into something horrible and violent and pro-war.

It's so sad. And those kids? My heart just breaks for them. They're being emotionally abused and manipulated. I would never subject my 11 year old daughter to that--she is being taught to follow her conscience and decide her spiritual beliefs for herself. She knows about mine (Christian), she knows about her dad's (agnostic) and she's learned a lot about the major world religions. Right now, she's agnostic. I think it's best to teach kids and then allow them to decide. Christianity isn't supposed to be about strong-arming kids until they scream "uncle" for crying out loud!

Posted by: Kathy at October 8, 2006 7:41 PM

Yeah, theres a difference. First of all parents giving there kids alchohol and that whole prostitots thing? Thats not anyones political move to take control of the government. Plus, little Annie and her stretchy "juicy" pants don't have the power to bring out whole society down around our ears or kill millions of people. I'm pretty sure the pope didn't call the crusades because he though the Muslims showed too much belly. It's also possible in my quick review of your post that I totally misread your point, whoops.

Posted by: Anodyne at October 8, 2006 11:09 PM

This is religious freedom going wild.

Posted by: Yetused at October 9, 2006 7:15 PM

"...is in no way indicative of the hundreds -- likely thousands -- of emotionally stable and globally minded people of faith who are doing their best to live simple, good lives..."

I'm not sure if Carlson:


  • is being sarcastically magnanimous by allowing for the existence of people of faith who might be emotionally stable and globally minded...but then markedly low-balling the number

  • didn't review the statement before posting

Hundreds? Likely thousands? That's a non-existent percentage of religious people. Then again, maybe you were trying to be funny...

...or perhaps I'm being an overly-analytical ass.

Posted by: brutus at October 10, 2006 3:44 PM

brutus, it's glorious sarcasm of the very best vintage. Enjoy it. And, Mr. Carlson, if all our pundits were as well-balanced and articulate, Stephen Colbert would be out of a job and I'd feel a lot better about my entire continent.

Posted by: raucousraven at October 13, 2006 6:25 PM

Wow, there are quite a few comments. You people generally don't seem to like extremism very much. But you guys aren't talking too much about how to fight back.

I've seen kooky sidewalk preachers aggressively follow bystanders who humiliate them by pointing out their obvious inconsistencies. I've talked with people who form preconceived notions about my standing with the Lord before they've even talked to me. I've watched religious "warriors" approach an anti-censorship stand and heckle the poor volunteers for no obvious reason. I've read some of the most ridiculously simple-minded letters written to newspapers by people who you just know were home-schooled. Christ, I've been asked by a potential employer not to do anything involving "witchcraft" in my software work--I'm still trying to figure out what the heck he means!!

All these incidents involve people who are sure of themselves in a religious sense, but it's rare that they're totally rigid in their beliefs. Remember, you can reason with devout, even extreme, religious people. What you must do is use their own arguments against them--apply logic and insight to what they're saying; stating external facts often won't budge them since they've already sealed themselves in a box.

In particular, I was impressed by Paul's dissection of the Ten Commandments. That's a good example of using logical reasoning.

While most of you think kids are innocent, I wouldn't say they're impotent. Kids can just as effectively fight extremist indoctrination as easily as they can be indoctrinated. Just give them the chance.

Posted by: CKA at October 13, 2006 11:49 PM

This thread is so intersting. I've never been on this site before, but I love this review. I too was reminded of my past as a little Christian zealot. And I am proof positive that you never know what is going to happen to these kids. You just cannot measure the human mind, body and spirit. I am now a left wing agnostic, so there you go. But, many of the teachings that I was brought up with in my bible-thumping jesus days have stuck with me and I have mostly fond memories of my days at church camp. I just grew up and formed my own opinions. I think that will happen to most of these kids as well.

Posted by: Harbini at October 20, 2006 11:24 PM

I absolutely loved this movie and its making me even bolder in my walk with God. What you people don't understand is that God is using these kids like He is, because this world is so stinking evil. His voice is being heard by these kids, and He was probably trying to talk to you too, but you turned a deaf ear to His voice. Your just looking at the political part of it to nit pick us christians and thats ok, go ahead. At least your heard some of God's Word even through a movie. As for the speaking in tongues, yep I speak in tongues daily. The Bible says that tongues are speaking to God not man. So no wonder your worried about that one. Don't you see? It didn't matter who was President of the USA, those kids are praying for our nation. Their fighting the enemy, not you people that will not hear from God. If you want to really be concerned, turn MTV on and watch that junk. We have kids cutting themselves to feel better and your worried about some kids being on fire for God? Oh bless your hearts, God please speak to them. I pray in Jesus Name..

Posted by: Jeannie Cooper at February 7, 2007 6:35 PM