free counter with statistics Eloquent Eloquence 07/30/09 | Pajiba - Scathing Reviews for Bitchy People

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Ugh, Bugs! Stop Falling into my Boobs!


Eloquent Eloquence / Figgy

Eloquent Eloquence | July 30, 2009 | Comments (124)


So, did you guys hear? We are now, officially (if a troll says it, it’s true) a cabal of evil elitists (maybe. I wasn’t paying too much attention) conformed of Dustin’s friends (Dustin who?) and we represent everything that is evil about the movie industry. Me! In a cabal! The last time I tried to join they told me that they didn’t let foreigners into their circle dances round a midnight fire group and I was depressed for weeks. And now here I am! Part of the cabal! We worship an octopus deity who drives an armored tank. All of our rituals involve alcohol. Some may necessitate the use of Swiffers (Ass(TM) version or otherwise).

We are awesome. We are everything that is wrong with the movie industry. Somehow. He didn’t go into details. Trolls never do.

(But I still can’t believe that you people don’t eat breakfast. The hell? So all of you bastards who post before I’ve even woken up are doing it fueled on coffee? No fucking wonder. How do you deal with the Pamela Anderson ad without breakfast?! Anyway.)

What better way to celebrate my introduction into a cabal than by taking a vacation from it? Right? Of course right. But, yeah, as I’d mentioned last week I’m taking a trip up to Merkia Land (COMMENCE INVASION) for three weeks. I think I’ll be able to take up the halo again the week after next, so never fear. I will return. Meanwhile, next week’s EE will be left safely (maybe) in the competent (read: mildly insane, but awesome) hands of the one and only Marra Alane. Don’t cross her. She is mean. Even I’m a little scared, but she volunteered, and we celebrate sacrifice in the cabal.

Oh, one more thing before the list. While previous EE winners can’t win again, they can get back on the board. But I’ll be judging them more harshly, to give the other people a chance. Don’t be so greedy, TRACER.


On to the goods:

[First, an extra. An Honorable Mention, if you will. Only because I couldn’t fit it anywhere and I didn’t want to do another list of 15]:


10.5 * removes horse dong from mouth*
Could this be the Twilight of a once burgeoning film career?
*inserts said dong into anal canal* —Michael Ausiello

[And they say we are what is wrong with the movie industry…Whoever that was, kudos to you.]

10. Looking a little closer at the data, I find it hilarious that “Friends rely on you for your views on …” is a pretty uniform spread until it gets to the “parenting” category, where it skyrockets to STRONGLY DISAGREE. I don’t know about you, but I’ve found that babies respond well to crate training and a rolled up newspaper when they make boom boom on the rug. Just common sense. —Leigh

[I loved that bit of data so much. I know that a lot of us aren’t parents, but still. That’s hilarious. I don’t know if some of us should be allowed to procreate.]

9. Having a kid in the house, we watch a lot of cartoons. My nominee for the worst names ever — the Berenstein Bears. When Papa bear and Mama bear call their kids “Brother” and “Sister,” it makes them sound like some insanely inbred family where your mother _is_ your sister and so is grandma. —True_Blue

[I loved that thread. There were a lot of opinions re: best names, but I think the majority agreed that “Count Dooku” is the worst character name in the history of movies. Fuck you, George Lucas. Look at what you did to Christopher Lee, you bastard.]

8. Tracer, you bastard, you made me laugh. In fact, you made me laugh so hard I had a coughing fit. This lead to the violent regurgitation of a half-digested cold-and-flu tablet, which smacked my cat in the side of the head. Turns out, he really doesn’t like being woken up by ballistic Sudafed. He’s hiding upstairs now. I think he might be trying to summon Satan on me.

If I get eaten by a hellspawn, I’m holding you responsible. —ScienceGeek

[I think you all know what Tracer comment we’re talking about here. Go look. I’m too lazy.]

7. Another conversation between me and my girlfriend:

ME: Hey, rattle off some of your favorite kid’s books.
MY GIRLFRIEND: Um…this one, I can’t remember what it’s called, but it’s about…this person thinking of sad things to make tea.
ME: …What?
MY GIRLFRIEND: (googles) Tear-water tea, that’s it.

And she reads me this little story about an owl who thinks of sad things so he can fill his teapot with tears. Things like “chairs with broken legs…songs that cannot be sung because the words have been forgotten…books that cannot be read because some of the pages have been torn out…spoons that have fallen behind the stove…”

ME: …what the hell?

MY GIRLFRIEND: You know, there’s an entire school of philosophy that comes from that poem about whether a spoon is still a spoon if it’s fallen behind the stove and never seen again.

ME: …what the HELL?

MY GIRLFRIEND: Ugh, bugs! Stop falling into my boobs!

Thank God that happened. Kept me from crying. —Jim Doggie

[I love the conversations between Jim Doggie and his girlfriend. They sound like an indie movie. Second time on the list, that means true love forevah!]

[And now, my two favorites from the “I’d Rather” Comment Diversion…]

6. I’d rather be stalked by a crazed serial killer who wanted to teach me a valuable lesson through a series of inescapable and disfiguring traps in real life. —Zooby

I’d rather repeatedly slam my testicles in a desk drawer.

I’d rather willingly let a jellyfish sting my tongue and then have a syphillitic hobo piss on it to neutralise the sting.

I’d rather go back in time to about four years ago, when my relationship with a particularly psychotic girlfriend was gradually becoming more and more unbearable, yet I was still doing my absolute best to hold it together because my self-esteem had been crushed to the point where I thought that this was my last chance at human companionship, and I ended up sitting in a sticky-floored cinema watching Gerard Butler in The Phantom of the Fucking Opera.

I’d rather go even further back in time to when I was eight, in Orange Class at my primary school, and I was reading a section from one of those early reading-type books, standing before a class of fellow schoolkids sitting cross-legged on the floor, earnestly reading my chapter about a spotted dog chasing a big-ass ball or some other bullshit, and then Steven Rock decided, out of nowhere, to pants me in front of everyone - and the teacher, that bitch Mrs. Crunden, rahter than disciplining the little bastard, fucking laughed as I stood there, winkle dangling in the wind, too mortified to even move.

I’d rather… *reviews previous offerings*…

I think I’ve said too much. —Dill The Devil

[Brits are so weird.]

5. I refuse to suspend disbelief to accept that all the members of an online guild live in the same city. Generally it’s unusual if all of them are in the same hemisphere.
Not saying they couldn’t get together, but it would require a guarantee of alcohol and/or group sex. —Neodiogenes

You’ve heard of Pajibacon, right? And your point is? —PaddyDog

Pajibacon — from what I’ve read of it, at least — apparently proves my point.
It’s not an assembly of online game nerds — it’s a congealed sodden mashup of alcoholic wordsmiths (is that redundant?) gathering for, apparently, the mass consumption of yet more alcohol and mutual snarking to the choir. The group sex is not explicitly stated but is strongly implied. If there are nerds involved, it’s incidental to the aforementioned alcohol and sex. Basically it’s like a meatpacker’s convention with ostensible cleverness instead of meat. And fewer prostitutes. Or is that an unwarranted assumption? —Neodiogenes

[I think that’s…freakishly accurate. Anyone up for Texasbacon in August? BOO-YAH!]

4. I miss being able to so freely access my imagination the way i could when i was young and had no trouble flipping the switch from boring real world to imaginary world of monsters or mayhem or fluffy bunnies that sang in french or whatever i was daydreaming at the time.

Imagine if you were still like that? Take it from one who knows, it sucks. Like when you’re sitting in rush hour traffic and imagine all the cars are telepathically flying out of your way so you accidentally drive forward a little and rear end the fucking BMW in front of you because the suburbanites of Atlanta think they have to pretend they have money. Or when your girlfriend at the time (note: at the time) has been talking to you for the last 20 minutes spilling her guts out and after about 3 you started daydreaming that you were actually fighting a zombie horde outside of your house at that very moment. It could happen right after you watch a movie, like, say The Fast and The Furious and you leave the theatre doing 90 in a 45. Maybe you just watched another vampire movie and figured you would see how hard it would take to bite your significant other to the point of drawing blood. Sometimes, having an overactive imagination just sucks. —Deistbrawler

[Whenever I’m stuck waiting somewhere my brain goes into overdrive imagining a hostage situation and how I would manage to be the hero and save us all. Either that or Batman comes to rescue us and then we make out.]

3. This looks like a pile of unmitigated shit. Did you wake up with a rainbow up your ass this morning or does fondness for Say Anything and High Fidelity cause one to become a John Cusack apologist? Aside from the vagina, I AM this movie’s target audience (in my early 20’s, Daily Show devotee, frequently curses and enjoys a bit of the absurd in my humor) and I wouldn’t get near this movie if someone paid me.

Seriously, Hot Tub Time Machine? Why not just call it Do You Love It’s Always Sunny In the Office At 30 Rock Fidelity Show? Than You’ll Love This!. —Genny (actually Rusty now)

[*cackles*. I love when Genny gets angry. It makes me happy in the pants.]

2. Mr. Morton, thank you for this interesting post. I’ve not seen The Way of the Gun. I enjoyed reading this piece, and I will probably watch the movie at some point.
And now, I’d like to say something to the recent smattering of commenters saying things like, “Pajiba sucks now the quality of the writing has gone way downhill don’t you guys ever talk about movies any more all the commenters suck and they’re an elite little club” and so on and so forth:

There are still good pieces of writing about movies (and other forms of pop culture/entertainment) being posted on Pajiba. For example, they’ve brought in this Drew Morton guy, who might actually know something about film, to class up the joint. You may not agree with his opinion of this (or any) particular movie, but at least he is able to articulate what he did and did not like about it, and provide some worthy material for a discussion.

But these more “serious” posts don’t usually get a lot of comments. Hmmm… strange and mysterious! Where are all these gripers from other threads? Here is a place to talk about the merits of a movie, without any gossiping about the actors or cursing the Hollywood machine for its endless remakes. Instead of going to other posts and saying, “This place sucks!”, come to this post and make it the lively exchange of serious ideas you seem to think Pajiba is lacking.

If you think the Pajiba Love links are all gossip and trash, don’t click on them. If you think the Random Lists are stupid excuses to devolve into crazy sexytime talk, ignore them. If you think the Eloquent Eloquence is snobby and elitist, don’t read it and then you won’t even know that you aren’t on the list this week.

But don’t say, “There’s nothing good on Pajiba,” and ignore the stuff on here that is great.

/rant about threads you’re not reading on a thread you’re not reading — MM

[See, people? See? You don’t need to mention sex or Ass Swiffers in your comments. Eloquence this beautiful is rewarded. Jeebus. That was glorious. I hope everyone reads it, specially the whiners. I am shining a beacon onto it. And it was so very close to winning. But then there was this…]

1. So, what you’re saying is marketing departments suck? Not surprising given that they’re populated by alien-rejects from the galactic equivalent of suburban Jersey strip-mall staff. The cool ailens make online video sites.

/Rant=On

Trailers, “buzz” and the so-aptly-named “viral marketing” are all about making the movie seem like what these bad, alien anthropologists think you want. (Viral? What’s good about a virus? Unless it makes zombies, shot in a gray-wash of awesome.) And they’re desperate to make a go of it here on the blue-green marble of hell, their extra-terrestrial last-chance Texaco. It’s bait-and-switch, and we’re the bait and the mark in this particular midway.

So, yeah. Trailers suck. And there’s no law that says a trailer has to represent the film it’s for, really. As the mutant-invaders slowly figure this out, every trailer will be full of Fox-boobies, ‘splodey robots and sparkley emo-vamps. Next View-Askew production? ‘Splodey robot-boobs sparkling in the trailer. Next period piece? Trailer full of sparkley robot-boobs exploding.

But I’ve heard that in the bowels of the Interwebs there’s a secretive, subversive place where you can get reviews from people with a love of the craft who are also actually interested in the experience of watching any particular movie. These people live a life of big-T Truth as They Find it.

It is said that it is a hidden, guarded place known to only a few. Even for those who pass the gates it is a violent place, full of scathing atmosphere and vitriol. Suffering fools not at all. Within, the warriors challenge even each other, calling bullshit, mocking the shallow, and ripping bad grammar and internet-FAIL even among themselves. None return from that place, and no one knows why some are drawn to try to go there.

Yet, the legend won’t die. Each season, some few declare: “If this is your world, you are welcome to it. I may be seeking a fantasy, a legend that never was, but it is a far, far better thing I seek than you will ever know. You mindless toads, suckling at the IMAX-Teat of sparkley, ‘splodey robot-boobs herded to your pop-culture injection by hucksters wielding i-Prods. If I go to wander ever seeking never finding, a place of intelligence and standards, happily, willingly I go better for the quest than you will ever know. Because you, you eat what the marketeers serve up and call it caviar.

These misfits are never heard from again. But sometimes, a small meme careens through the Intertubes. A distant ranting overheard by chance, full of bile, and love, demanding that things be better because they can.

So, yes, Virginia, there are marketeers in the world, full of flaccid not much. Drink deep your fill of emo-‘splodey robot-boobs, and dead rainbows passing for slice of life.

But if you are strong enough, there is a land better than this, a place where a flackified trailer is dismissed with the Bah! it deserves. Or dismissed with more words, really forged only for the enjoyment of the special misfit race that lives there. That place is called Pajiba. — BierceAmbrose

*****

Holy Godtopus on a cheese and chive cracker. That. That right there. That’s what the Eloquent Eloquence is all about. It’s angry, it’s passionate, it’s funny, it’s smart and fuck, it’s so Pajiba. It should be our new charter, for crying out loud. I…just…I’m speechless.

Bierce, you are fan-fucking-tastic, my friend. Congratulations. I don’t even have that much else to say. I can’t even begin to think of a DVD good enough to give you. Because your comment was so outstanding, I’m gonna let you pick. Anything under $20. Well, almost anything. If you know what I mean. E-mail your choice and info to dustin at pajiba dot com and let us know in the comments what your pick was.

And before I go, anyone want to take a crack at organizing a mini Texasbacon sometime in August? Get crackin. Facebook group is your oyster. Enjoy me while you have me, people.

See you in two weeks!

Figgy lives and rages in the mad urban jungles of Honduras. Check out her blog for somewhat incoherent updates on the Honduran situation, Cannonball Read book reviews and the occasional pictures of hot men.


Pajiba Love 07/30/09 | The Fantastic Mr. Fox Trailer



Comments

I knew that was a well-deserved number one when I first read it. Congrats Bierce.

Figgy, have a fun and safe trip. You'll be missed.

Posted by: dawn at July 30, 2009 2:09 PM

*applauds B/A. still waiting for the punch line, tho.*

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at July 30, 2009 2:11 PM

Yeah Bierce! That was friggin' nice. Makes me feel like a moron for posting an imitation of a bad gossip monger fellating a horse.

Posted by: Kballs at July 30, 2009 2:19 PM

*tear*

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 2:22 PM

Congratulations BierceAmbrose - 'twas an inspiring entry.

Have a lovely vacation figgy.

Posted by: Cindy at July 30, 2009 2:25 PM

Anybody got a Kleenex? That was beautiful.

Posted by: Kolby at July 30, 2009 2:29 PM

Thank you for the inclusion, Figgy. For the record, I wasn't at Pajibacon, but I kind of wish I was.

Also for the record, no part of my comment was meant to imply that alcohol, sex, snark, prostitutes, and meat are offensive.

Posted by: Neodiogenes at July 30, 2009 2:30 PM

*holds memorial candle for sphincter shrink post*

Posted by: Marra at July 30, 2009 2:38 PM

Hey, whose boobs are those?

Posted by: Marra at July 30, 2009 2:39 PM

For the record, I don't think I've ever said there is nothing good on Pajiba.

Where are all these gripers from other threads?

Possibly they're nodding in agreement with the review and don't think they have anything to add to it.

If you think the Pajiba Love links are all gossip and trash, don’t click on them.

This is such a stupid counter-nonargument. If someone says, "A sucks because of B", don't come back with, "Don't read it". They weren't asking you for a solution that would relieve them of their pain. If you'd like to play, attack the B part.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 2:40 PM

This is such a stupid counter-nonargument. If someone says, "A sucks because of B", don't come back with, "Don't read it". They weren't asking you for a solution that would relieve them of their pain. If you'd like to play, attack the B part.

But if the initial "A sucks because of B" argument is highly subjective (a personal feeling) instead of objective (a factual statement), then there couldn't be an argument.

Especially when the initiator doesn't really regard anything said in defense as a "good reason" (like say, need for ad sales, increased number of reviews regardless, the site never being solely reviews in the first place).

Just saying, if you don't even want to hear the actual counter-arguments, what is the point to even bringing them up?

Posted by: Vermillion at July 30, 2009 2:54 PM

Truly a deserving winner. Congratulations!

Posted by: "Luker" the barbarian at July 30, 2009 2:56 PM

Possibly they're nodding in agreement with the review and don't think they have anything to add to it.

Now that is a stupid counter-argument. How the hell is that supposed to help anything?

"Gawrsh, I like this piece. So, to show my appreciation, I am going to sit here and do nothing to indicate such. Because they can totally read my mind. And they totally don't care about comments or anything."

And I should know, since most of my reviews barely broke the 30-comment mark. But you put SLW or Prisco on something, they have torrents of comments, regardless if folks agree or not. Now guess who get the biggest chunk of assignments after Dustin?

So if there are a bunch of people sitting out there nodding to anything, let alone my stuff, please for the love of God, type something. Even if it is just a "yes".

Posted by: Vermillion at July 30, 2009 3:01 PM

No.

(tee hee. just being ornery.)

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 3:10 PM

Vermillion,
Argument, opinion, whatever, perhaps I'm slipping into descriptive linguistics. If I said, "This sucks. I don't like it", "Don't read it then" would be a perfectly fine response. But, I tend to say, "Posts of this nature are bringing down the overall quality of this site". Then, when people come back with that tired response, I can't help but be baffled.

And I could not care less the reason for the increased fluff pieces. Shitty quality is shitty quality no matter what the reason.

And as for the "it was never just reviews", I find it funny that a site which often(just today, in fact) derides once great TV shows for losing their way is doing the exact same thing itself, in my opinion.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 3:11 PM

Argument, opinion, whatever, perhaps I'm slipping into descriptive linguistics.

No, an argument is a position you attempt to support based on facts. An opinion is a statement based solely on personal feeling. They are not interchangeable.

If I said, "This sucks. I don't like it", "Don't read it then" would be a perfectly fine response. But, I tend to say, "Posts of this nature are bringing down the overall quality of this site". Then, when people come back with that tired response, I can't help but be baffled.

That isn't better. All you are saying is "This sucks NOW. I don't like it NOW." It is still an opinion, not an argument.

And I could not care less the reason for the increased fluff pieces.

So why complain about shitty counter-arguments, if you already made up your mind to not even consider any?

Really, that is the most honest thing you have said yet. For all your ranting about quality, it ultimately boils down to you not giving a crap about anybody else but yourself and the how the site serves you. No wonder you are so "baffled"; such a contrary position can't possibly be right, since it doesn't benefit you, so out it goes.

Posted by: Vermillion at July 30, 2009 3:29 PM

It's the way of the New Pajiba world, deal.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 3:29 PM

Congrats to BierceAmbrose - your affirmation of Pajiba was far more Eloquent with a capital E than mine.

"Gawrsh, I like this piece. So, to show my appreciation, I am going to sit here and do nothing to indicate such. Because they can totally read my mind. And they totally don't care about comments or anything."

Thanks, Vermillion, that was my thought on that as well. Basically, my post was trying to say, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." Don't say there's no intelligent discouse on Pajiba when the only thing you're posting on Pajiba is "You suck!"

And that's why I started my post by saying "I have nothing to contribute because I haven't seen this movie, but the piece was interesting and I now want to see this movie."

Also, I didn't mean to imply that *only* Drew Morton is classing up the place. I think all the writers are fantastic. I had no idea that contributors got gold stars for more comments on their pieces. I will make an effort to comment more on posts I really like.

Posted by: MM at July 30, 2009 3:29 PM

^But you seem to be equating subject matter with quality. Even trash can be done well. Moreover, I don't think you're seeing the pragmatic value of the non-review related material.

Quite simply, in order for a site to lure in content of quality, it needs readers and possibily ad revenue to pay the writers. The reason I left my old gig as an internet critic was because there were no readers (and we were a straight up review site for a long time) and one reason I'm supplementing my career in academia with this is because there are few casual readers of film theory and film history. I don't get paid for my internet or academic writing, which is fine, but I do like to think my writing is actually reaching someone and I'm willing to accept that it might run with gossip or trade news.

In the end, diversity of subject matter is a must. Some people come to the site to read the reviews, looking at other content secondarily, some vice versa but in order to keep the ecological flow of the site going, both are necessary.

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 3:29 PM

Sorry, I was responding to pissant. Lots of comments were posted while I was typing that up!

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 3:32 PM

"I'm supplementing my career in academia with this is because there are few casual readers of film theory and film history. I don't get paid for my internet or academic writing,.."


Have you considered being a male prostitute? I'm sure you could advertise in our "After Dark" section.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 3:33 PM

Now that is a stupid counter-argument.

That wasn't a counter-argument, that was a possible explanation for the lack of posts.

How the hell is that supposed to help anything?

I fail to see how post simply "good review" helps anything. I do see how posting something that adds to the review would help, though. I'm not saying people that bitch about the decline around here never post, but perhaps they only post when they feel value would be added. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they just like to bitch.

Now guess who get the biggest chunk of assignments after Dustin?

I don't know how Dustin assigns posts. I would hope that he gives them to people who write the best reviews. And I would hope that "best" does not mean most comments.

Dustin is free to run the site how he sees fit. I would hope he does what he likes the most and not what he thinks his viewers want(even if he nails that). Perhaps that is our fundamental disagreement, in which case, I don't think we'll ever be able to come to an agreement.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 3:36 PM

PS - whose boobs are those??

Posted by: MM at July 30, 2009 3:36 PM

^Just because I don't get paid for my writing doesn't mean I'm unemployed. ;)

Teaching, grants, and a sugar mama provide me with my income.

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 3:37 PM

"Perhaps that is our fundamental disagreement, in which case, I don't think we'll ever be able to come to an agreement."

Who says he wants to agree with you in the first place? And if that's the case, then why persist in trashing the site? Why not just accept what it has become, for better or worse? Or are you arrogant enough to think that your criticisms are actually going to result in some sort of sea change in the site's management?

You know that saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Posted by: Skewicide Blonde at July 30, 2009 3:44 PM

I'm sure you could advertise in our "After Dark" section.

I would totally pay you for sex. But you'd have to talk theory while we were doing it.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 3:45 PM

*if I had money, that is.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 3:46 PM

Drew,
I get all that. I understand the site needs money to stay afloat to pay for the servers that serve the php and to pay writers(the last part is debatable if your idealistic). But, how many good-but-canceled-early TV shows could've drawn in more viewers by trashin' it up or adding new characters? Would it have helped the show survive? Yes, but the quality of the show would suffer and you'd be left with a watered-down version of a once great show.

That's what I'm getting at.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 3:46 PM

*if I had any money, that is.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 3:47 PM

Why not just accept what it has become, for better or worse? Or are you arrogant enough to think that your criticisms are actually going to result in some sort of sea change in the site's management?

I can dream. I'm much like Luke Skywalker. This is still some good in this site, I can feel it.

You know that saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Like responding to me and telling me to give up?

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 3:49 PM

That wasn't a counter-argument, that was a possible explanation for the lack of posts.

No, that was stupid, and a counter to the argument "folks do not comment on the 'good' posts". Therefore, it was indeed a stupid counter-argument.

I fail to see how post simply "good review" helps anything. I do see how posting something that adds to the review would help, though.

How about it indicates that the post was appreciated in general, and that it any inspire further posts of a similar nature? I mean, isn't that part of your problem with the comment-centric stuff, like EE?

I'm not saying people that bitch about the decline around here never post, but perhaps they only post when they feel value would be added. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they just like to bitch.

See, there's the rub. What they consider "value". Who knows what is valuable material and what isn't until it is put out there? The most thoughtful and developed comment to one person could be a rambling mess to several others. The only way to know is to take the chance and say something. And obviously there must be some "value" in the bitching comments, so why not others?

Dustin is free to run the site how he sees fit. I would hope he does what he likes the most and not what he thinks his viewers want(even if he nails that).

Bullshit. Otherwise, why pester him with emails? Why take so much time and energy to complain about the site? Why actively campaign to get stuff removed? If he is putting the stuff on the site, he must want to do so. Maybe not personally, and yeah, maybe just to get eyes on the site, but it is his choice. Yet you still complain.

doing the exact same thing itself, in my opinion.

Exactly. It is your opinion. And as an opinion, you don't have to hear any logical refutations of it. But when anyone regards it as such, and gives the natural response to an opinion (if you don't like it, don't read it), you suddenly act like it is an argument with actual facts behind it.

Posted by: Vermillion at July 30, 2009 3:53 PM

Anna,

I'm flattered. Let me speak with the Sugar Mama and I'll get back to you. I can feel that my description of Bazinian realism will really get you off.

Pissant,

I understand your point, but I think your logic is a bit off. You're interpreting "Pajiba" as one large, cohesive text. A site of movie news and reviews is not like a TV show that sells out because a site consists of numerous texts, offering you the reader several options to spend your time with. Does Pajiba still provide you with some worth-while reading material? If so, it fulfills its function.

I can sympathize with your point, as I feel similarly about IGN.com. However, I won't write an entire site off for bad criticism, as I'm still able to get my DVD and video game news from them. The point is that a website is a collection of many types of texts by many different authors. To find subjective weakest links amongst them in the hopes of founding a broader generalization about the site is like going to a museum and hating its entire collection due to the quality of one piece.

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 3:53 PM

Congrats BierceAmbrose, truly a moving piece.

And Pajiba, your just fine the way you are. Some people love you and some people hate you. Some, I guess, are quite indifferent. Me, I'd still totally do you in the butt.

Posted by: admin at July 30, 2009 3:54 PM

Let me speak with the Sugar Mama and I'll get back to you.

There'll be a couple of bright, shiny quarters in it for you!

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 4:03 PM

Dustin is free to run the site how he sees fit. I would hope he does what he likes the most and not what he thinks his viewers want(even if he nails that).

What? I was ready to go all 'Love it or Leave it!' on your ass (defending Pajiba brings out the idiot redneck in me), but this is confusing.

Listen, Dustin is my favorite famous internet personality, and I usually agree with him most of the time (seriously, though, the Katherine Heigl shit? You've made your point. Leave the poor cunt alone) but this isn't his personal blog. It's his website, and at the end of the day whatever he thinks works best is what's going to happen, but how are you supposed to run a website without people who, you know, like what your putting up? Part of what makes Pajiba so great is that Dustin and the writers do respond to what we want, and are willing to go out on a limb and try new things to see if it works out.

I get all that. I understand the site needs money to stay afloat to pay for the servers that serve the php and to pay writers(the last part is debatable if your idealistic). But, how many good-but-canceled-early TV shows could've drawn in more viewers by trashin' it up or adding new characters? Would it have helped the show survive? Yes, but the quality of the show would suffer and you'd be left with a watered-down version of a once great show.

That's what I'm getting at.

So, basically you'd rather their be no Pajiba than a Pajiba with posts you don't like. Awesome. That's really smart.

Posted by: Marra at July 30, 2009 4:03 PM

See now that Drew is considering prostituting himself I'm wondering how come we don't have any sex for money advertising here.

What do you do all day Rowles?

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 4:03 PM

Now I have that Flight of the Conchords song "You Don't Have to Be a Prostitute" stuck in my head...

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 4:06 PM

Fuck, *there. And I fucked up the italics too. I'm bad at comment fighting.

Posted by: Marra at July 30, 2009 4:07 PM

I was going to say something but I started reading the comments and forgot what it was.

Thanks, I'll just let myself out ...

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at July 30, 2009 4:09 PM

Vermillion,
No, that was stupid, and a counter to the argument "folks do not comment on the 'good' posts". Therefore, it was indeed a stupid counter-argument.

He said "Where" and ended with a question mark. Sure, it could've been rhetorical, but I was giving a possible explanation. Also, you say it was stupid because it was stupid. I believe that is begging the question boiled down to its essence.

Who knows what is valuable material and what isn't until it is put out there?

I suppose that is different to everyone. However, I don't think it would be crazy to think that someone making a comment would be allowed to judge for themselves if their comment is valuable. I never said people shouldn't post, I just said that maybe some don't because they feel like it would be worthless.

Bullshit. Otherwise, why pester him with emails? Why take so much time and energy to complain about the site?

In the hopes that he sees it and changes his ways. And I've never sent him an email.

natural response to an opinion (if you don't like it, don't read it)

God damnit...look, how about you tell me that it doesn't suck and explain why?

Drew,
Well, yes, my logic is a bit off, but it's an analogy. Let's see, a better one...an infection in the foot could eventually kill the head.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 4:17 PM

I just wrote a 2 pg. post that Drew Morton captured in a paragraph.

*slaps Drew in face with white leather glove dipped in ether*

With that problem taken care of, I now claim everything Drew said as mine.

A very simple interpretation of Drew ( i mean luker...the barbarian's) thought:

I hate the music reviews (as a concept, not the writers themselves)
I love Pajiba
-------------
NOT a contradiction.

One thing to add.
I do NOT think it is appropriate to bash an entire section of the site that you are not interested in. I don't critique the music reviews because they aren't fixable, i'm fundamentally uninterested.

So, Pissant, if you kind of like "pajiba love" but think it could be made better, then by all means, rant away. If you think it is fundamentally stupid, then why bother? Focus on critiquing the sections of the site you DO still like and care about? That's something the pajiba community absolutely needs. I just feel like that type of feedback is constructive, while all-purpose attacks on "pajiba-in-general" are counterproductive, as they undermine your credibility.

Posted by: "Luker" the barbarian at July 30, 2009 4:25 PM

Pissant,

Still off, as you're still interpreting a website as one text instead of a collection. Also, you never answered my question:

Do you have one column or critic that you enjoy reading at Pajiba?

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 4:26 PM

NERDFIGHT!


Anyway.


As soon as I read the title, I cackled with glee. Wow, a second trip to the list. I really should thank my girlfriend when she gets home, since my brain acting on its own doesn't seem to be very interesting. *big smile*
And for the record, those aren't her boobs. If they were, I would be very confused and slightly scared that figgy has a camera hidden somewhere in this apartment.

Posted by: Jim Doggie at July 30, 2009 4:28 PM

Are we gonna advertise hookers or not Rowles?

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 4:34 PM

BierceAmbrose, we need that on a scroll. Or a t-shirt. Or a scroll printed on a t-shirt.

Sublime!

Posted by: Tarn at July 30, 2009 4:36 PM

In a nutshell, it's not what Pajiba says, it's how Pajiba says it.

Personality out the wazoo.

Don't ever change.

Posted by: OldSchool60 at July 30, 2009 4:37 PM

So, basically you'd rather their be no Pajiba than a Pajiba with posts you don't like. Awesome. That's really smart.

It wouldn't necessarily fold because they don't try to give the readers what they want. Giving people what they want isn't always the best option. And before you call me hipster or elitist or whatever, how many books/movies do you know of where it actually saddens you when the protagonist dies? Wouldn't you prefer that they live? But, wouldn't the story suffer?

Analogy again, I know. Also, I'm having a hard time at this moment thinking of a book/movie that fits what I'm saying. American Beauty, maybe?

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 4:38 PM

Are we gonna advertise hookers or not Rowles?

Bslim,
I thought we had that covered with the Pam Anderson ad?

Posted by: Tarn at July 30, 2009 4:43 PM

Drew,
Still off? It's still an analogy..

Do you have one column or critic that you enjoy reading at Pajiba?

Oops, sorry, missed that. I can enjoy a post from anyone, but I am partial to Phillip Stephens. That's because I know him and they usually give him off beat movies which he gives thoughtful reviews to...usually. I also have enjoyed your reviews. And I think I prefer Prisco to Dustin, but I can't be sure. As far as columns. I'm more into the movie reviews than anything. I appreciate the idea behind the music reviews being grouped by label as of late, but I think the execution is a bit flat(no idea why, it just comes off that way).

Yes, it fulfills its function, but for how long? What if one day reviewers start lookin' around and goin', "Ya know, I could just throw in somethin' about Rainbow Killer and a Murdertank and knock this one outta tha park! Who needs quality?"

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 4:46 PM

Bslim,
I thought we had that covered with the Pam Anderson ad?

Posted by: Tarn at July 30, 2009 4:43 PM

------------------------------------------------

I would qualify that as a: Disease Prevention ad.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 4:55 PM

Pissant,

An analogy is built off of a similarity, but a body and a TV show are self-contained units, a website is not, so it's not a productive analogy.

With regard to your second point, you won't find me doing that and I doubt you'll find the majority of the writers defaulting to that type of writing. That's like saying you don't want to get into a romantic relationship because one day it could go terribly wrong. Why deny either for a worst-case scenario logic?

My advice to you is that if you feel so incredibly passionate about this (which I don't doubt that you are and its flattering, even if some of us feel its a misinterpretation): write a review or two and send them to Dustin. If you're worst fear is that the site is taking a dive off the cliff, try to fix it with something more constructive than a comment.

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 4:55 PM

I just got back from a three week vacation in Portugal, so I'm a bit rusty, but allow me to offer my two cents on this fascinating thread:

If you're going to use an overhead boob pic, is it too hard to ask that you use Salma Hayek as your model instead of Selma Blair?

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at July 30, 2009 4:57 PM

You know what I smell? I smell a round of FOOOOXY BOOOOXING!

HELL YES, MOTHEREFFERS! 'Tis a fight for the ages, what with the logic and disagreements and pudding and boobs and internal bleeding and some guy in the corner diddling his privates under the table! WHO DON'T DIG THE 'JIBA? TIME FOR A THROWDOWN! Imma put on my vinyl jumpsuit and referee and Wendel's gonna ring the bell and Conrad's gonna blow a hobo and I'm gonna wet myself in all the excitement and everyone's gonna argue and OHMYGODITSAWESOME!

Somebody go get my smelling salts and one o'them heart-jumper whatchamafucks, 'cause all this arguing is making my ticker tremble like a fifteen-year old kid stuck in a tent with a tipsy hooker! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

(...can't... catch my... breath... bowels unclenching... boner....)

Eh... On second thought I don't give a rooty-toot anyhow. I just used this site to say I'd won something. Now that I have, it's back to the land of obscure Peeping Tom...

Posted by: Skitz at July 30, 2009 4:58 PM

Dude. Fuck off.

Also, those are NOT my boobs. I am more amply endowed.

Peace out bitches. See you next week.

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 4:58 PM

Skitz, you bastard, don't ever go anywhere. Pajiba needs you.

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 4:59 PM

If I may interject.

I think that I may be able to get us all the same page here, by agreeing on the fact that this comment fight is really distracting us from the real question:

WHOSE BOOBS ARE THEY!!!!????

Posted by: ashes at July 30, 2009 5:07 PM

He said "Where" and ended with a question mark. Sure, it could've been rhetorical, but I was giving a possible explanation. Also, you say it was stupid because it was stupid. I believe that is begging the question boiled down to its essence.

The "possible explanation" is still an argument until it is proven. And it was stupid because not only did it make no sense in context, but it ran counter to the implied explanation for your continued complaining: that it would actually matter.

I never said people shouldn't post, I just said that maybe some don't because they feel like it would be worthless.

Unlike say, posting because you feel everyone else's comments are worthless? And why are these people thinking their posts are worthless, especially here? This is the land of Godtopus and Taco Dip! If there was a site where nonsense was welcomed, this would be it. Which, again, is your stated problem with the site.

In the hopes that he sees it and changes his ways.

You say you want him to run the site the way he wants to, but you want to make him change the way he runs the site? And you don't see where that might be contradictory?

God damnit...look, how about you tell me that it doesn't suck and explain why?

The reason why has already been explained several times over: it is a fun distraction from the tedium of school/work/whathaveyou and oftentimes inspires funny or thoughtful comments. Some people appreciate that. You decided that wasn't a good enough reason for you, so there you go.

Posted by: Vermillion at July 30, 2009 5:07 PM

Will someone solve the mystery of the boooooobs?

Don't make me call motherfucking Shaggy and Scooby up in here to solve this mystery. Because we all know they'll solve the mystery of who the girl in the picture is, but in doing so, they will accidentally uncover other secrets...like...Figgy is a telepathic fish who secretly wants to enslave the human race through humor, or that Pissant IS Dustin and Dustin/pissant comments in order to INCREASE loyalty to the site, by rallying the commentators to defend the site.....all part of a master plan, where he recruits a cyber army of commentators who will fight the big-and-tall-sex-bot.

Posted by: "Luker" the barbarian at July 30, 2009 5:13 PM

I'll say up front that I don't comment very often. I'm usually way too behind the game to feel like any of my comments will have any weight, coming in as they do at position 113 or whatever. I've tried to take part in the comment fun that the Eloquents seem so good at, but usually walk away unfulfilled. I'm sure I'll get cries of "Maybe you're not smart enough!" or "Why complain when you don't participate?!". But until this becomes a members only site, anybody with a keyboard is welcome to comment and share opinions.

I'm not 100% behind pissant re: his arguments about the quality of the site. Among others, the addition of Steven Lloyd Wilson has brought new life to the reviews, and I LOVE every review of his I've read. They're contemplative, incisive, and well-written. And even the reviews I don't necessarily like are at least well-written. So I think the quality is usually still there.

What I think has changed about the site is more the tone than the quality. When I first started visiting Pajiba, I told all my friends about this awesome review website that reviews stuff I actually watch, and with plenty of intelligence and snark. And there's still a lot of that to go around. I had a nice 2 hr. chat conversation with a couple of fellow Pajibans last night (http://www.chatmaker.net/chatap/rooms/pajiba/), that touched on all sorts of topics, but was always fun, intelligent, and full of dry wit. So again, it's not really the members or the writing I have a problem with.

What bothers me is this: Pajiba has become SO self-congratulatory. I find it mildly ironic that a site that so loathes the flak supported trailer, or poster blurb, or review, chooses to award the top two spots in Eloquent Eloquence to posts about how awesome Pajiba is (not that both posts weren't humorous and well-written). It smacks, to me, of sycophantism. And when someone like pissant chooses to speak against ANY aspect of the site, he or his (sorry if I'm making a wrong gender assumption) comments are labeled wrong, or just stupid, and berated as opinions masquerading as fact. But isn't that what a review is? Someone's opinion wrapped up in a presentation of facts about the given media? I mean, I'm pretty sure 99% of this site hates shows like Everybody Loves Raymond, but I know several intelligent people who LOVE that kind of show. So if one of the writers were to post a review of one of the Raymond seasons, full of vitriol and snark, and a commentor disagreed with the review because he or she is a fan, would that invalidate either position?

And that's ultimately what I'm driving at. Whenever anyone comments regarding a dislike of ANYTHING on the site, that person is generally either derided for the opinion, or completely ignored BECAUSE it's just opinion. Dustin regularly rails about the lack of originality in Hollywood, but when something truly original in concept and execution comes along, he rails because it's not original enough, and is lauded as a brilliant voice speaking out against evil Hollywood (check out the post about the animated Nine trailer from a couple of months back for what I'm referencing). Pajiba longs for new traffic and new regular visitors, as I'm sure any website does. But the increasingly insular nature of the site does very little to welcome new people in, and often rewards groupthink.

I still enjoy Pajiba, and love many of the reviews posted here. But I'm increasingly feeling like an unwelcome visitor because I'm not "in on the joke," and I know I'm not the only one. Just some food for thought. Accept, ignore, or berate as you feel fit.

Posted by: JustBill at July 30, 2009 5:14 PM

With regard to your second point, you won't find me doing that and I doubt you'll find the majority of the writers defaulting to that type of writing. That's like saying you don't want to get into a romantic relationship because one day it could go terribly wrong. Why deny either for a worst-case scenario logic?

I've already entered into the relationship, and she's in danger of losing that loving feeling.

Write a review? Also, I've never really complained about the reviews themselves, so writing one wouldn't really cute down on the crap.

I would like to add that I appreciate you addressing my concerns instead of just telling me to shut the fuck up.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 5:17 PM

Oh, for fuck's sake, people. Websites grow. They change as they grow. Like puberty. And much like puberty, we become ruder and more "no one else is like me and I am awesome" the older we get. It's happened with every single web community I've ever been a part of. And always there's the people who cry about how the good old days are gone, and how they'll abandon the site. Some do, most stay, and we grow into it. Just...fuck. Get over it. Whining will get you fucking nowhere.

*rolls eyes so hard they fall out of her head*

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 5:21 PM

And with that, I'm done for the day. I need to go pack and pray that I can make it to the airport tomorrow and avoid roadblocks.

There's no point at all to this discussion, and I can totally understand why most of the staff stays away from these things. Not fucking worth the stress.

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 5:23 PM

This site needs more glory hole reviews.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at July 30, 2009 5:26 PM

You say you want him to run the site the way he wants to, but you want to make him change the way he runs the site? And you don't see where that might be contradictory?

Jesus, it's not contradictory if he actually wants to run it that way, which is the way I hope I can persuade him.

You decided that wasn't a good enough reason for you, so there you go.

Cool.

Posted by: pissant at July 30, 2009 5:26 PM

Pissant,

As I said, I'm sympathedic to your opinion, I'm just trying to defend what I interpret as being the logic of the site. Insulting you wouldn't be a productive venture for anyone involved. Yet, I think there is a fruitful debate to be had here and perhaps it will encourage some other readers and commenters to reflect upon their own contributions.

I can't speak to Bill's critique regarding tone and the shift to being self-congratulatory, as I haven't been around as a reader or a writer to make an informed statement.

In the end, I stand by my earlier statement:

If you find one critic or column which you appreciate (perhaps you agree with the judgement expressed, perhaps you simply find the writing engaging, even if you disagree with it, perhaps you just want your trade news and gossip) we are doing our jobs.

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 5:31 PM

Sorry, folks. I'm switching between comment sections on here and sexyladydeucedroppers.com

Actually, come to think of it. This site really could use more glory hole reviews.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at July 30, 2009 5:33 PM

I need to go pack and pray that I can make it to the airport tomorrow and avoid roadblocks.

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 5:23 PM


Don't forget your AK.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 5:35 PM

What bothers me is this: Pajiba has become SO self-congratulatory. I find it mildly ironic that a site that so loathes the flak supported trailer, or poster blurb, or review, chooses to award the top two spots in Eloquent Eloquence to posts about how awesome Pajiba is (not that both posts weren't humorous and well-written).

Just to point out: Figgy is not an "official" staff member of Pajiba, she's just an adoring fan who grew into something more, so when she picks comments about how awesome Pajiba is, it's not quite as self-congratulatory as if, say, Dustin chose the list.

one o'them heart-jumper whatchamafucks

Oh, Skitz, sometimes you make me laugh til I pee.

That's why I love this site. NOT ONLY do I get to read good reviews, I also get to laugh at the comments. A lot. I may not be in the same comedy league as the regular commenters, but I'm not here to imagine the laughter of others at my own witty comments (because I can't actually hear it through the computer, you know). I'm here to laugh hysterically at the comments I read, because laughter is the best medicine, lightens the spirit, etc. etc. If I could entertain myself, why would I bother coming here?

Posted by: MM at July 30, 2009 5:37 PM

...I agree with JustBill.

There has been a noticeable uptick in "Dude. Fuck off"'s over the last several months. The comments are less friendly than they used to be.

Posted by: JakesAlterEgo at July 30, 2009 5:38 PM

Sometimes I feel like a guy standing next to three other people having a conversation about him. 'Hi! I'm standing right here!'

When I'm not writing the site, I'm reading it. And the long and short of it is this: I put together, to the best of my ability, a site that I like to read. I love Pajiba Love -- I've found some pretty good stuff through it. I love Prisco's off-the-wall irreverance, Dan's thoughtfulness, TK's anger, Ted's drunken brilliance, Seth's pissiness, Drew's intelligence, Steven's brilliant analysis of sci-fi (he's introduced me to a lot of stuff in the short time he's been here), Bedhead's ability to say something new and funny about the same kids flicks week after week, and Mr. Murray's keen observations on bad television and V's geekery. I love it all. Every goddamn bit of it.

I also love EEs because the people who comment here are thoughtful and/or hilarious, and I hate to miss great comments. And I like the Seriously Random Lists, too, not just because they're popular, but b/c they're fun to put together. It's a website, not an academic institution. I want a site that's fun and smart and thoughtful and clever and insightful. And I think, on its best day, it's all of those. We'll take two out of five on the other days.

I do happen to agree, a little, with JustBill. There are a lot of inside jokes around here, and I appreciate them. But I also really dig the new voices that come out of the comment section. I don't mind alienating people, but I'd rather alienate them for the right reasons, like because they love "The Family Guy."

And Pissant -- you're a thorn in my goddamn side. And you're from my hometown, for God's sake. But I read all your comments. I understand what you're trying to do, and I appreciate your aims. But sometimes I think you take it a little too seriously for a movie website. I spend 10 - 12 hours a day writing it and reading it and putting it together. I like to break it up, not b/c I'm trying to appeal to some unknown demographic of people who adore Ryan Reynold's abs and loathe Katherine Heigl and either love or hate hipsters or nerds or geeks, but because it's fun. It's what I like doing. I'm sorry that you and some others don't always appreciate or enjoy it, but I'm not doing it any more for you than I am the people who do.

And V: No! The number of comments do not matter! If a post gets a lot of comments, it usually means -- such as the case here -- that someone is pissed off. Don't get me wrong: I enjoy reading the piss-and-moans fests, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the way things are assigned. Ack! That's not a perception I'd want anyone to have.

Posted by: Dustin Rowles at July 30, 2009 5:55 PM

Bierce, old man. Good to see you. I see you've already gotten your EE smoking jacket and ascot. And aren't these gift baskets just the best? Silk pajamas from Calvin Klein and I just love these Kenneth Cole slippers.

Normally, Figgy does these tours of the EE clubhouse, but she's going on vacation (those well-oiled beach volleyball players won't wait) so she asked me to show you around. Cuban cigar? Pipe? You don't mind if I do? Great. Let's hit the bar.

"Hello, Meester Bullet. You're usual."
Thanks, Manuel, but we're celebrating a new member.
"The Chateau Lafite?"
Indeed. The '44.

I don't know how Dustin gets this stuff either. Supposedly he knows some old Nazis in Argentina who looted a bunch of estates on their way out of France, but I just drink it.

There's the pool. Over there is jM's panda enclosure. You don't want to go near there on Tuesday nights. Trust me.

There's the soccer pitch. Dustin invites local CYO teams in to play every so often. Ha, yes. Good eye. That is an alligator pit. Dustin likes to unleash the gators during games. Nothing makes him laugh harder than seeing lizards devour small, fat children.

In there is the gym. You'll find a weight room, yoga, pilates and a punching bag that looks like Michael Bay. All the toiler paper in the locker room has Pookie's face on it, so don't feel compelled to conserve.

I hope you got your Hooker of the Month Club card. You missed this month's show, Awesome Amputees, but the next group is due in a few weeks. Incestuous Irish is one of the more popular selections, I'm told.

Here's the dining room. Paul Prudhomme is this week's celebrity chef. I keep arguing for Nigella Lawson, of course, but that's just because I want to fondle her.

Take advantage of the massage girls. Dustin flies them in directly from Thailand so they don't speak English, but, well, your imagination isn't good enough to think of anything they haven't done already. Trust me. I've tried.

There's also any number of guys around who'll do whatever you want -- the stable boys, Raoul the Cabana Pool. Good luck. Most of them are too scarred to do much for at least a week after Julie and Fiest get through with them.

That's the nickle tour. Feel free to ask anyone if you have any questions. I'm gonna cut out. I've got an appointment with one of the massage girls. She's triple-jointed and has no gag reflex.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at July 30, 2009 6:04 PM

I'm tearing up over here. That was beautiful.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at July 30, 2009 6:06 PM

And that's ultimately what I'm driving at. Whenever anyone comments regarding a dislike of ANYTHING on the site, that person is generally either derided for the opinion, or completely ignored BECAUSE it's just opinion.

See, there is where the problem lies. Not in that folks can't put up an contrary opinion, but that they expect it to go unchallenged. If 99% percent of the comments are "Yams are good", do you really think nobody is going to react negatively to your post of "No, yams are yucky"?

And yet, there is nothing preventing you from posting that yams suck. The very act of posting implies a desire for response, positive or negative. And the very act of showing your post implies that, while there may not be agreement, there is no inherent malice towards you.

People keep forgetting that there is no "freedom of speech" on a privately-owned website. If he wanted to, Dustin could block you. But he doesn't, and that has to count for something.

Dustin regularly rails about the lack of originality in Hollywood, but when something truly original in concept and execution comes along, he rails because it's not original enough, and is lauded as a brilliant voice speaking out against evil Hollywood (check out the post about the animated Nine trailer from a couple of months back for what I'm referencing).

Yet you ignore the posts where Dustin is lambasted for his idiocy and/or ignorance regarding comic books, games, sports, TV shows, what have you. Which are pretty much half the posts he does. And as I recall, there were plenty of people, myself included, who expressed considerable enthusiasm for the 9 trailer. The main complaint was the need for voice casting, and after seeing the original silent short, I can see why.

And then there are the cases where quick-to-post commenters mix up Dustin with others (usually Dan, Prisco, or Seth). So whose to say how many folks actually "lauded" him?

Pajiba longs for new traffic and new regular visitors, as I'm sure any website does. But the increasingly insular nature of the site does very little to welcome new people in, and often rewards groupthink.

Umm, as I recall, at least two commenters are practically celebrities because they constantly rail against the site and the perceived "groupthink". And if the recent poll results are any indication, plenty of different people express contrary traits and viewpoints to the supposed "groupthink".

Jesus, it's not contradictory if he actually wants to run it that way, which is the way I hope I can persuade him.

So if I understand this right, it is like saying "I want him to have whatever job he wants, but I am still going to convince him to become a doctor, even though he is in law school". What he clearly wants is conveniently ignored for what you want. Unless of course, you believe that he doesn't know what he wants, and you wish to make up his mind for him, which is even worse.

I apologize. It has been my experience that when someone wants to do something, ad I say "I want you to do what you want", I don't then go and pester them to go my way. Especially if they are enjoying their own.

There has been a noticeable uptick in "Dude. Fuck off"'s over the last several months. The comments are less friendly than they used to be.

There has also been an uptick of "You people and/or this site suck"s as well. Coincidence?

Posted by: Vermillion at July 30, 2009 6:08 PM

I agree a little with everyone, maybe that means I'm not willing to take a stand.
But then again, I don't particularly feel that a stand needs to be taken.
Yes, the site has changed from when I started reading it a few years ago. I roll with it. If something doesn't interest me, I don't click. That's pretty simple.
I still like reading the reviews whether I agree with them or not. I feel confident in posting my opinion regardless. And that's fun. There have been a few times when the threads get REALLY hateful (see a couple weeks ago regarding overweight people and More To Love) and that actually kept me off the site for a couple of days. But Pajiba is like a drug, and I run back to certain addictions.
I like EE, I like being able to laugh at some of the stuff I missed, but I'll agree that sometimes the Pajiba community feels like a tough place to break in. Doesn't keep me from posting, though. I've had very cool conversations with some fascinating people, which makes it worth the trouble to me.

I can't get too irritated today, anyway. Austin is overcast, the constant 103 temperature is down to 90 and it is a slice of blessed relief.

Posted by: myysharona (formerly Sharon) at July 30, 2009 6:10 PM

"like because they love "The Family Guy.".."


Yeah, fuck you too, buddy.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at July 30, 2009 6:11 PM

Y'all need to smoke some tweed, get some ass, and chill the fuck out.

Or keep bringing the heat, the hate, the bitchiness, and the manufactured drama.

Either way. Whatever. Its cool.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at July 30, 2009 6:21 PM

No, it is not a coincidence. If someone tells someone to fuck off, that person sucks.

Posted by: JakesAlterEgo at July 30, 2009 6:22 PM

I hear ya Rowles, and JustBill. I'm mostly a lurker, and occasional commenter, but Pajiba has definitely evolved into a secret handshake motherfucker type of society. One that is glorious, and accurate, and wonderful, but a little too inclusive. There are several commenters that should be on staff judging by the amount of recognition they get. And that's fine. But gosh, can't the not-as-hilarious get an occasional shout?

Oh wait. That's socialism. Go Obama!!

Posted by: patchfire at July 30, 2009 6:27 PM

I feel like the actual issue is being kind of skated around without being touched on.

Whether or not pissant is truly concerned for the welfare of the site, or for his own selfish reasons, the problem is not that he comes in and offers his opinion on the subject. The problem is that he comes in and says inflammatory, derogatory things about/to people. The problem is that he shits all over the writing, the comments, the nature of the content on the site. He's certainly not expressing his opinion in a friendly way, or in any kind of a tone that suggests he's interested in discussion of his issues; in fact, he's made it quite clear that he's only there to shit on the site unless it changes to his specifications. Why would anyone respond to him in a way... well, how exactly is one supposed to respond to that? There are those who have tried to reason with him, to discuss with him, and yes, some of those he has insulted have hurled slings and arrows in his direction. He has also made it clear that the only response that is acceptable to him is change to the site, which seems unlikely to happen. It's plain that no matter the response, he will continue to be surly and hateful.

There is a way to express one's opinion without being a complete jackhole about it. I've done it myself.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 7:11 PM

And as for lurkers being "afraid" to post, it's been said before, but that's ridiculous. How many more times can the regular folks say, "lurkers, come out and play"? How many times can they express their enjoyment of new voices, whether in agreement or disagreement? Nobody can force someone to make a comment, and not every comment that gets made gets commented on or responded to. Half of my comments go completely ignored, and some of them have been pure genius!

Shit, my fake husband ignores half of what I say at home, can you imagine if I was offended or upset every time? I'd be fake divorced!

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 30, 2009 7:27 PM

Yes, thank you, AvB! That is exactly how I feel about pissant's comments, but I couldn't quite figure out how to express it. (Which is probably why I'm a lurker.)

Posted by: ariadne at July 30, 2009 7:27 PM

I get a post and a spot on the EE in the same week. Shit. I'm fucked from here on out.

Did we ever determine who the boobs belonged to? I kind of started skipping every time I saw a long comment. The "fight" was boring me, and I'm the fucking 'brawler' for christsakes.

Posted by: Deistbrawler at July 30, 2009 7:29 PM

Oops, I was responding to your 7:11pm post, AvB--just wasn't fast enough.

Posted by: ariadne at July 30, 2009 7:31 PM

Go read Dustin's comment.

Just, you know, in case you got to the bottom and missed it.

Fuck. I haven't packed a damned thing. Damn you people.

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 7:38 PM

Even if I don't agree, I've heard all of your points, and appreciate the time and thought that went into your responses. Makes me want to try to get active on commentin' again.

And thank you, Deistbrawler, for bringing it back to what's really important...boobs and pictures of boobs. And I say that with all sincerity.

Posted by: JustBill at July 30, 2009 7:41 PM

Uh, not to be the shallow chick breaking into this in-depth discussion of the Evolution of Pajiba, but...

Shouldn't Tracer's comment have gotten a place on the EE, not my response to it?

I'm not complaining about seeing my name on this list (hell no!), but that man did make me fire a phlegm-covered tablet at my cat. Surely that deserves some recognition?

Posted by: ScienceGeek at July 30, 2009 7:44 PM

That said: yay! I'm in the EE!
And this time it isn't for complaining about hot weather and dead wildlife three days before half the state burnt down! Extra yay!

Posted by: ScienceGeek at July 30, 2009 7:51 PM

Damn this thread. Between this and Facebook, I'm missing out on my nap time...

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 7:55 PM

Anybody feel like buying me some tacos? I'll buy if you fly.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at July 30, 2009 8:08 PM

If you're ever in Los Angeles, you have to try Tito's.

Goddamnit, now I want a taco and a nap.

Posted by: Drew Morton at July 30, 2009 8:15 PM

I've only been reading Pajiba for the past 3 weeks on a daily basis, but I've really enjoyed the site. I don't mind being on the fringes as far as the conversations go just because, hey, I'm new, and I'm just getting to know how the regulars and others relate to one another. I don't mind the "in jokes" mostly because I can see quite easily how much the people who have been here for some time actually like one another. I've never read so many posts that have made me laugh as much as this site--it's been wonderful! I think the article writing is top-notch, informative and yet an enjoyable read (without being too academic and boring the socks right off me).

Posted by: slim at July 30, 2009 8:23 PM

No, ScienceGeek, you definitely belong on the list--your post literally made me burst out laughing: I'm a sucker for annoyed cat stories. (And which thread was that on? I can't remember.)

Posted by: ariadne at July 30, 2009 8:52 PM

Deistbrawler, I tried and I tried to get the topic back to the mystery of the boobs to no avail...I beleive that Figgy has taken off already so we just may have to sadly accept the fact that we will never know whose Boobies they are.

Posted by: ashes at July 30, 2009 8:54 PM

I even tried to just google "downblouse," "down shirt," and "cleavage." I couldn't find the pic she used but I had fun trying.

Posted by: Deistbrawler at July 30, 2009 9:01 PM

Maybe I'll try my own search. I mean for the benefit of the group, not saying I'm just looking for excuses to go look at boobs. Cause well, I mean I got my own, alls I gotta do is look down, and frankly speaking, mine are a lot bigger.

Fuck it, I just want to go look at boobs.

Posted by: ashes at July 30, 2009 9:06 PM

ashes,
Have I told you lately that I love you?

Posted by: Deistbrawler at July 30, 2009 9:12 PM

Normally I try not to comment on the way that the top comment list has gone because quite frankly I think that Figgy has been somewhat of a failure. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed Figs when she was just a regular gal running around here trying to get some laughs. But I think it was wrong for Rowles to assign her to a prime time spot which obviously she’s shown she’s in way over her head. Nevertheless pajiba is Rowles’s baby and he can do with it whatever he wants to.

Tracer, I liked you better when you were just some young punk trying to make a name for yourself. Now that you’ve been here awhile and gotten a whiff of that pajiba pussy it seems as though every time I turn around you’re trying to break my balls, well have at it. I can no longer fight you, my brow is soaked with the sweat for trying to teach people that don’t listen. My gait has been slowed by a heavy burden, and my strength has been weakened from fighting the good fight.

Vermillion my sad sad friend, you had so much promise. I envisioned great things for you, but you throw away greatness like lent from your pocket. I hope that you will open your eyes before it is too late.

I’m not long for pajiba, soon I will belong to the ages.

Posted by: Guess Who! at July 30, 2009 9:29 PM

Don't any of you people have jobs?

Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at July 30, 2009 9:30 PM

*lint*

Posted by: Guess Who! at July 30, 2009 9:32 PM

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE YELLING!!!


LOUD NOISES!!

Posted by: ashes at July 30, 2009 9:41 PM

You like me. You really, really like me.

I suddenly feel like surprise-snogging Halle Berry or telling jeebus to suck it. Where's my bare-midriff feather-headdress number? ("If I could turrrn back tah-yem ....") I'd like to thank the academy, and all the little people I had to step on to get here today. (Who am I kidding? I always feel like surprise-snogging Halle Berry. Stupid restraining order.)

There's a random list idea: most gloriously batshit award-winner moments. We'd suffer an embarrassment of riches. And an embarrassment. But I digress ...

I'm proud to be a member of the cabal, that congealed, sodden mashup of alcoholic wordsmiths & evil elitists - everything that is wrong with the Internet. Good godtopus, who wouldn't be proud. Everything that's wrong with the Internet? All at once, in one place? And people who write things like: "sodden mashup ..." & etc. Win!

Though I don't comment often, I greatly enjoy the e-salon, and its refreshing blast of brainy, bawdy, critical commentary (the musical).

Meanwhile, must check what the Dr. H DVD is going for. I've been hording the first hearing of "Commentary, The Musical" for a celebration. Maybe that's now.

Because it's about standards.

- Bierce

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at July 30, 2009 9:46 PM

I do realize I got the quote wrong on my last post, however it's because...

Well shit I actually have no excuse, I just watched the damn thing.

Soooo I was just in Rock Creek, MT for my family reunion. Rock Creek, MT pop. 25ish and home of "The TestyFesty" (if you don't know, I can't tell you).

Anyway, wait where was I going with this...Oh so I had to barter, yes barter, to get a bottle of whiskey from a roadside bar thing. $35 for a bottle of Feckin Whiskey, yeah that's the actual name of it, Feckin (not worth the $35). And fuck, I keep getting sidetracked, but yeah if I had to pick an excuse for myself it would be that.

Shit whiskey (but it's so delicious!).

Posted by: ashes at July 30, 2009 10:03 PM

Last to the argument, but what the fuck:

I don’t agree 100% with any one person, but I have sympathy with the things that JustBill (my personal EE winner for next week, primarily for the eloquence but also for a fair chunk of the argument), mysharona, Drew, Patchfire and MM have said.

I don’t get a lot of free time, so don’t usually wade into the “threads for the sake of threads” stuff, choosing to focus instead on the usually-excellent reviews and series wraps. The trouble with that is, they tend to be the threads in which the “community building” takes place- people talk shit, bond, make the sexy time and crack the jokes that form the dialect of the site. For a while I found it alienating, but over time have learned to accept that it is as much to do my lack of/inability to participate as exclusiveness on anyone’s part.

Pajiba caters for those who like to chat as much as those who like to contemplate (consider me in the latter camp). If I had a criticism, it’s that the balance of late seems to have swung in the opposite direction to the one I prefer, but as long as there are still pieces like SLW’s excellent Torchwood wrap, Drew’s Alien write up and Boynton & Prisco’s snarky essays, I’ll keep coming back. I’ll wade through the occasional comment thread to see what the fuss is, but for the most part I’m happy to let others make with the funny- they are usually better at it anyway (Tracer, Skitz, etc).

The EE’s: Yes, sometimes people try too hard to pen a winner, but so long as the successes make the attempts worthwhile, leave them to it. There is maybe a reputational up tick for the winners, but beyond that, it’s just a digest some of the genuinely funny shit that gets written around here. An amusing and vital part of the site but keep it in perspective- it’s a weekly Internet Statuette for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Hilarious Pop Culture Snark, not the Pulitzer fucking Prize.

Posted by: RandyPanTheGoatboy at July 30, 2009 10:27 PM

The boob lady is...

No one you know?

Posted by: Cindy at July 30, 2009 11:27 PM

Damn....Cindy...how long did it take you to find that?

Posted by: Deistbrawler at July 31, 2009 12:30 AM

So . . . is this the general concensus?

GAHHHHH

Posted by: Lauren at July 31, 2009 2:42 AM

My only issue with this site is that it's written in the wrong fucking hemisphere. I'm not normally a tardy person, but due to that whole "I'm on the other side of the earth" thing, I end up in this situation. Never able to really participate.

I HATE being the last to an orgy.

Blue clit again.

Posted by: general rhubarb at July 31, 2009 3:00 AM

Thank you, Lauren. That made my day.

*sidles over to general rhubarb*

How's it goin'? Are you flowin'?

Posted by: Kballs at July 31, 2009 9:11 AM

"Pissant IS Dustin and Dustin/pissant comments in order to INCREASE loyalty to the site by rallying the commentators to defend the site.....all part of a master plan where he recruits a cyber army of commentators who will fight the big-and-tall-sex-bot."
-Luker-

I notice that Dustin had no response to this accusation. Care to comment Mr. Rowles?

Posted by: caitlinh at July 31, 2009 9:38 AM

About three minutes. Deistbrawler.

Posted by: Cindy at July 31, 2009 9:56 AM

Fuck. I haven't packed a damned thing. Damn you people.

Posted by: figgy at July 30, 2009 7:38 PM
---
Don't bother. Just go bare. Most Americans figure Hondurans run around naked in the jungle anyway, with feathers in their hair and necklaces made of teeth and streaks of body paint, making cookies and rutting at random like wild animals and ... and ...

Um ... I'll be in my bunk.

(Hey, bring back pictures! And we better see more than a toe in the water this time.)

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at July 31, 2009 10:35 AM

Don't any of you people have jobs?
Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at July 30, 2009 9:30 PM

This from a woman who posts a novel at a time in the comment threads...

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 31, 2009 10:47 AM

Dustin,
God damnit, what am I gonna do while I'm at work now? I can't really go on. I guess this sort of ends the rants. You came out and stated your purpose and reasons. There really isn't any more to say on the subject, I suppose. It's still a great site, and the only place I anticipate movie reviews.

I guess it's back to campaigning for Mrs. Stephen's to finally get that abortion that's about 27 years too late.

Posted by: pissant at July 31, 2009 10:47 AM

smoke some tweed

Huh. I think you just explained Rupert Giles for me.

Posted by: Tarn at July 31, 2009 1:58 PM

I have only one last thought...

Fish cleavage? The hell?

Posted by: JustBill at July 31, 2009 2:23 PM

Perhaps there's a fish just out of frame...

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at July 31, 2009 2:56 PM

Alright, I'll re-phrase.

Reviews, comments and all sorts of chicanery are great. I enjoy it as much as anyone. It's fun. Somewhere along the line, it's become politicized. This is interesting and often hilarious to see. We're getting so much more bang for our 'buck' as readership and posts have increased in number. Oh, Rabelais and His World!

Cliques happen, and by nature they are insular, self-indulgent and often attractive to ones who don't have this site in their pocket. And it must be fun, I think. Look at an 'Eloquent' with a minutely askance glance, and it's 'Step away from our Arcadia, peasant!' Eighth grade or internet, it's inevitable.


Wouldn't it be fun to ingratiate ourselves to the obsessions of this site and get to peer at the hoi-polloi from the lofty Pajiba Canopy? By Hannigan's Reynolds, yessity-yes! Being well-liked and respected is fun. So, here's a reach-around for the ossified squid pellet non-deity thing you've got going here. Great, someone loves me. Let's just have some fun.

But weep silently into my pillow sighing, 'alack' because I'm not 'Internet Popular'?

No.

I guess this debate is going to become some sort of sore spot in the times to come. I don't know, maybe I'm just not as invested in a lot of this stuff. My comment-reading habits could hardly be called a perusal, I'll admit that. It hit the eject button on my brain, spew and leave. The people here seem very nice, intelligent and funny, so I kind of take the site on those terms. If that's a sacrilege, then...what?

Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at July 31, 2009 3:33 PM

Don't any of you people have jobs?
Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at July 30, 2009 9:30 PM
---------------------------------------------------
NO, I don't!

*sobs loudly*

Posted by: Lauren at July 31, 2009 4:14 PM

Been there, friend. My sympathies.

Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at July 31, 2009 5:26 PM

I'm suckling the teat of Sallie Mae and Chase Grad Plus loans, so no job for me.

Posted by: myysharona (formerly Sharon) at July 31, 2009 9:15 PM

I'm sure nobody's coming back to this one at this point, but...

In regard to pissant, I said what I said because I felt it and meant it. However, I hope I did not imply that I want you to stop commenting on anything... Obviously, you are intelligent and articulate, I'd just like to see you use that to have intelligent and articulate discussions rather than beginning every post with, "This site sucks, and all of you suck" and winding up in an intelligent and articulate circular flame war. It's just a waste, and common troll behavior, and it's clearly beneath you (I pretend to speak for no one else, of course. What is clear to me may not be so to others).

Also, Jo "Mama", I hope you did not interpret my comment as anything but teasing.... I sensed teasing in yours, and so was responding in kind. I sometimes forget that while we grow used to each other here in our (apparently insular) society, it's still a written word with no connotations assignable with tones or gestures that specify teasing, and so can be taken as bitchy, snarky, or obnoxious.

There. I feel better.

Posted by: Anna von le Beaverplatz at August 1, 2009 1:50 PM

s any

Posted by: shonkikhan at August 2, 2009 3:14 AM

Comments are boring, thats why they are comments, not real texts, you now. I don't get this eloquent eloquent posts, it's not funny or nothing.

Posted by: zito at August 2, 2009 3:32 PM

*headdesk*

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at August 2, 2009 7:23 PM