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Why this Kaley Cuoco/Henry Cavill Brouhaha is Really Bothering Me

By Courtney Enlow | Celebrities Are Better than You | July 12, 2013 | Comments ()


henry-cavill-dating-kaley-cuoco.jpg

So, not even two weeks ago, news dropped that Kaley Cuoco and Henry Cavill had started dating. Now, news has dropped that they split already.

This is a set of individuals about which I typically care exactly zero-shits. But, in this rollercoaster of an aborted courtship week, I’ve found myself fixated, and not in a good way.

See, my indignation spreads from the facts that FROM DAY ONE, some perceived “blame” has been placed on Cuoco, as though she must be using Cavill, she must be pimping out the relationship, she must be ringing up the paparazzi to join them at the grocery store and see how in love they are. Now, it’s assumed she’s at fault, he dumped her, there’s much Internet celebration by the Cavill fangirls who deemed her unworthy.

Why?

Let’s consider each party.

Kaley Cuoco is a largely inoffensive individual who has made no waves in terms of gossip or media speculation throughout her career, an easy-to-forget long career, which began in the early aughts. She has never seemed to court much attention at all, and, in fact, concealed a long relationship with co-star Johnny Galecki until it had already ended.

Henry Cavill is an attractive man who took over a major franchise despite zero name recognition. A large chunk of the success or failure of Man of Steel, which was earning middling reviews at best, rested on him, and the Hollywood publicity machine is still ‘50’s-level intense, whether the public catches on or not, and is no stranger to capitalizing on a star’s (or, at times, a not-star-yet’s) relationship status to generate public interest.

So why on earth would we assume for even a second that Cuoco would be the mastermind behind this explosion of “wait…who?” kinda-news? Clearly, Cavill was the one with something to gain, not her. Maybe not in these here parts, but, to the general public of our high school classmates and parents, Cuoco is the bigger star. Maybe some of us aren’t “Big Bang Theory” fans, but a lot of people are. She has the hit show, he had the freshly-dropped, underperforming movie.

So, why attack her?

I think the “her” part is the answer. And I don’t like it.



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Comments Are Welcome, Jerks Will Be Banned


  • BlackRabbit

    I just wanted to salute the use of the word "brouhaha." I would also have accepted "kerfluffle."

  • colpetty

    Oh dear, not another of these posts. Whether or not this relationship was manufactured or not is neither here nor there, maybe they were together, maybe they werent, maybe they just took the piss out of the paps by holding hands. Surprising absolutely no one; they queued indignant rage by Cavill fan girls everywhere, how could SHE dare go out with that god of a man, and lets not kid ourselves, he is a beautiful man with a ridiculously chiseled physique, an accent and good manners of a archetypal upper middle class English family - he is pretty much most girls image of a handsome english prince sans actual title. The 'fault', if any, lies squarely with us. Reading the post though, the fairly subtle digs at Cavill "clearly, Cavill was the one with the something to gain" "she has the hit show , he has the freshly dropped, underperforming movie" was unbecoming, for one thing it is not clear that either of them had anything gain - no one was going to watch man of steel again because he was somehow back on the market and those who love BBT will just go back to laughing at 'nerds' and fantasizing about hottie blonde Neighbour. Also I'd be hard pressed to find anyone describing man of stee,l which as at date has a global BO of $600m, as underperforming, especially one that made its budget back before it even hit theaters

  • Colpetty

    Regardless of all the rage, objectively she is hot, clearly has a sense of humour (anyone who can sell those piss poor lines on BBT just has to have one), and comes across in interviews as a thoughtful person, no guy worth his salt would pass an opportunity to date her. It is annoying that in order to point out the obvious sexism in today's media portrayal of women, their is still a tendency to place 'blame' or rather the responsibility for the media circus on the other party. It's unnecessary and low. The only thing that should be allowed to sink that low is the ice in GI Joe: Rise of Cobra

  • sara h

    thank you very much for this!
    I really liked the idea of Cavill/Carano being together and I was disappointed when they split up, but ehi, those are their lives! We know nothing about them, we don't know who left who and why, we are in no right to judge! Cavill is happy now with Cuoco? fine! let them alone! blaming Cuoco it's just stupid and insolent. I find disgusting that journalists always try to sell by portraying the woman as the evil opportunist to blame. It's like Angelina with Aniston and Pitt or Amber Heard with Johnny Depp and Paradis.

  • annie

    Ah-men.

  • Malware

    Way to pick the worst photo of Kaley Cuoco I've ever seen.

  • F'mal DeHyde

    Yeah, I thought that was weird, especially where there are photos like this out there.

  • There'll Be Pancakes

    I think it's more infuriating because it's so clearly a publicity stunt from both parties' PR teams. Gross. It's like a fart in all our faces. Like, we know you've done it and all we can do is grimace, you gross bastards

  • Wigamer

    "A fart in all your faces" is the updated "A pox on all your houses."

  • ,

    I honestly can't for the life of me understand why anyone cares which celebs are hooking up. Completely baffled. Other people's makeups and breakups who aren't direct family or close friends, why does anyone give a shit, much less care to the extent of arguing about who's at fault? Must be a whole lot of people whose lives are far more drab than my own dull existence living vicariously, I guess.

    Sorry to spoil the fun. Y'all go on right ahead caring.

  • BlackRabbit

    Know what I wanna see? Two celebs get spotted dating and then a week later it's over. When asked, they just say: "We had an itch that needed scratching." Just like normal folks.

  • Captain D

    That's an interesting theory. Does it extend to pre-Taylor Swift days, or might this be a recent phenomenon?

  • gutpunchprod

    He's movie. She's T.V. He's royalty. She's a commoner. It's the same with Diane Kruger and Joshua Jackson, so it's nothing to do with her being female.

  • LaineyBobainey

    Yeah, like more people know Diane Kruger's name than PACEY'S! Puh-lease.

    Joshua Jackson (RIP) 4EVA!

  • cgthegeek

    Personally, I was rooting for Henry/Gina because it was nice to see a hot dude be into a woman who doesn't fit the Hollywood starlet profile, a woman with some meat on her bones, a woman looks like she could kick his ass. It's always encouraging to see hot dudes with regular looking women.

  • Maguita NYC

    It's not simply the "regular looking", for I believe Gina is not that photogenic but is quite the impressive hoty in person.

    It is also that Gina Carano represents a fierce brand of women who always work hard on making their dreams come true, no matter how unconventional, and based solely on her talent, Gina had actually made it in Hollywood. During Haywire interviews, ALL THE MEN were in awe of her. Each and everyone spoke of her talent and kindness first and foremost, which quite obviously superseded any superficial attributes they might have given other actresses they've previously worked with.

    She is that strong and attracts that much admiration.

  • Bell Swerve

    Wow, he looks so hot in that photo, mmm, oh what's with his hairline, wow that's really receding.

    Yep, that's how I can cope with not being his girlfriend. Others chose picking on Cuoco.

  • anon

    Who's attacking her? Likely mostly women who are jealous of her thing with him.

  • Mrs. Julien

    How about the comment immediately preceding yours?

  • BizzyBzz

    I just think Gina Carano is probably way cooler and this Big Bang girl is bland, bland, bland. My initial reaction was "Her?"

  • See, I think it was a case where they both had something to gain (because really, it can't hurt to date a gorgeous man like that who's making a big debut), but I think he had more to gain. Dating a popular, cute, "clean" (as in no ugly tabloid gossip) all-American girl to try to get in with American fans...that's a big boost to your popularity.

    But it backfired, because people (ridiculously) took it out on her. I'm assuming she hated that and called off the whole thing. Which is pretty smart of her.

  • I am fascinated and saddened by the tendency, still, to automatically assign women as temptresses who force men to do bad things. It shows this unsettling comfort with verbally abusing women while assigning men to this really weird victim role. No one benefits.

  • amilu

    You just HAD to use the clip-on bangs photo, didn't you?

  • carrie

    I'm losing 6 seconds to write "i don't care"

  • Joey

    Or maybe she realized she's just a beard...that's all.

  • Slash

    Yeah, it's because she's the one with the vagina. I don't know why the internet seems to turn most people into adolescents. Maybe it's the anonymity. But it's tiresome.

    And the idea that she's the one who needs publicity is idiotic. She's in a top 10 TV show. It's been in the top 10 pretty much since it started. She makes about $300K per episode. Aside from being in "Superman," most Americans don't know who the hell Cavill is.

  • Pretty much. And Man of Steel was successful, but probably not as huge a hit as they wanted it to be, so he has to stay in the headlines for a little while longer before people forget about him completely, or at least until he does some other big film. The whole thing is really obvious.

  • Jen

    I'm sorry but do you actually think they were dating? This was a blatant PR setup. And most publications saw right through it. That's why it's over. It was just badly handled by their publicist ( yes they just happen to have the same publicist )

  • gp

    "LARGELY INOFFENSIVE"???

    someone didn't catch her awful stint on Charmed.

  • Yeah but all of Charmed was pretty offensively bad.

  • Patty O'Green

    Hey, of the two sisters at least Cuoco wasn't picking scenery out of her teeth.

    I mean... who watches Charmed?

  • Mrs. Julien

    "Oh my God, he's so good-looking". Does the voice in anyone else's head whisper that virtually every time they see Cavill? Like it's a surprise to me every single time and I have trouble processing it. It's the reverse of the little scream I give whenever I see Willem Dafoe.

  • It's pretty much my reaction when I see Jon Hamm. Just...they're too good looking. You can't help it. Just an involuntary "Holy crap, he's gorgeous" gut reaction.

  • NateMan

    No, but my little voice did go "Oh, fuck YOU" when I saw his bare abs in the Man of Steel. Because that just isn't fair.

  • Maguita NYC

    Never ever before have I stared at a half-naked man and wished so strongly to have him on top.

    I understand it is a tad crude, but come on, no matter his acting abilities, anyone with a pulse and man-loving tendencies watching that precise moment in the movie wouldn't go "oh f*ck me". And mean it.

  • NateMan

    Nothing wrong with crudity! In fact, sometimes it's required. There are a few women I have the same response to - not as many as there used to be, I have to say, but a few who I'd still cheerfully sell my soul to bed.

    Can I say, in terms of Cavill's physical appearance, how glad I was he wasn't all waxed and gleaming? Good to see a dude on film with some natural fur.

  • Mrs. Julien

    God. Yes. Body hair. Man. Good.

  • YES, thanks you for saying this and thank you for saying it here.

    Women always get the rough end of the pineapple when it comes to the celebrity dating crap. Although in this case, I think it's also partly to do with a lot of people's snootiness about Big Bang Theory (and I include myself here because I judge it too). But comparing 'uncool' Cuoco against 'cool' Gina Carano is not being discerning and high-brow, it's being sexist.

  • Joe Grunenwald

    What I think really happened was who cares. Cavill and Cuoco had a relationship, be it real or fake or PR stunt or whatever who cares, and it ended, and the assignment of blame should be left to exactly two people: Cavill and Cuoco. And their friends, I suppose. So maybe more than two people. But certainly not thousands or millions on the internets.

    Sorry, but the practice of assessing why total strangers' relationships ended drives me up the goddamn wall.

  • Maguita NYC

    Because these total strangers are a manufactured product meant to attract our attention, and subsequently part with our money. Therefore, it becomes our business.

    Remember, Cuoco has had relationships far and away from public scrutiny. So do many celebrities for that matter; Most conduct their private lives just so, and resurface only when they have something to promote. It is very doable, even in Hollywood. We never question Daniel Day Lewis or Meryl Streep's relationships, or far as I can see, we never did (please correct me if I'm wrong).

  • Mrs. Julien

    But I felt what Courtney was saying was with regards to that analysis and the media feeding frenzy and how it irrationally assigns blame despite everything logical you just said.

  • Joe Grunenwald

    Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with what she said. I was just ranting my agreement.

  • Mrs. Julien

    Ya, I'm grumpy again today. I'm gonna sit the rest of this one out.

  • Joe Grunenwald

    <duplicate, deleted="">

  • F'mal DeHyde

    That's a terrible photo of her, she's actually very good looking with nice hair.

  • Wigamer

    It's a pretty bad picture of him too, actually.

  • F'mal DeHyde

    He's undeniably very good looking but I find him sort of bland. He needs a slightly crooked tooth in his smile, or maybe a small dueling scar.

  • Mrs. Julien

    I felt that way for a long time but the perfection wore me down. The perfection and that little bump on the left side of his nose. Plus the gifs of him giving interviews and being a very polite, kind of wry, and extremely nice person. There's only one problem: He's not particularly good at the actual acting. It's like he can't stop acting, or get out of his own way, or it never quite gets to his eyes or something. He always seems self-conscious.

    I promised to shut up a while ago. Seriously, I will stop now.

  • Mrs. Julien

    All things being relative.

  • Wigamer

    He is not in my preferred mode of dress, better known as shirtless.

  • Amanda Meyncke

    Welllll, let's all remember none of y'all actually know them and we never know what's really going on with other people's relationships.

  • emmalita

    I thought it was weird that so many people were making the assumption that Cavill dumped Gina Carano. The sudden publicity about a new relationship, made me wonder if Henry Cavill was feeling butt-hurt about the break-up. I've seen a lot of people do the whole "look at me, I'm desirable" thing after being dumped.

  • Mrs. Julien

    "‘50’s-level intense"

    This is the PERFECT description.

  • apsutter

    Let me just divert all of your attentions to celebitchy. The write up and comments on this over there are hilarious.

  • Mrs. Julien

    Celebitchy is a sharknado of cynicism and conspiracy theories. I can only take it in small doses.

  • Bodhi

    I used to love CB, but its definitely gone downhill. It used to be fun, but now its kinda mean. I know its CeleBITCHY, but its more spiteful than snarky.

    They keep posting article that flame the Mommy Wars & that just makes me crazy

  • Eve

    But the comments over there on this particular news are HILARIOUS.

    Someone said their groceries outlived the romance. Priceless.

  • apsutter

    I think most of the regular commenters are level headed and funny but they do get a fair amount of stans who go to ridiculous lengths to defend their preferred celebs

  • Mrs. Julien

    It's all the "GAY!" hysteria. A portion of the commenters seem to believe 97.3% of Hollywood is gay and hiding it with nefarious strategems and all response to celebrities starts from there.

  • Wigamer

    Also, said crazy commenters seem to believe there is an inexhaustible number of people willing to spend their free time helping to hide other people's gayness. It's like one big happy homophobic/self-hating family. Heartwarming.

  • Eve

    Since I often post there I feel like I must defend it a little (yes, I'm personally offended by the notion that everybody/most of the people who comment there are spiteful low lives).

    I can guarantee you Celebitchy is not a homophobic website (nor does it promote a homophobic environment).

    The three original posters there (Kaiser, Celebitchy and Bedhead) and the regular commenters are anything but bigots -- these are usually told off by regular commenters and/or banned from the site.

    P.S.: Whenever I spot unnecessarily offensive comments there I report them on sight.

  • Wigamer

    I don't have the same feelings for the site, just a portion of the more knuckle-dragging commenters. Kaiser I love, as she shares my passion for the Fassbender.

  • Mrs. Julien

    The thing is that almost all of it is feeding on tabloid stories, even if in a funny and intelligent way, and that, to me, is the same level as watching the Kardashians or comparable entertainment "product". If I participate in it, if I look, I am feeding the beast that lives on invasiveness and speculation and gives the gutter press the fuel to keep behaving the way they do. The same goes for TMZ.

    You will note that I do not deny my own curiousity. I'm just trying to avoid some small portion of hypocrisy. Some days I do better than others.

  • Maguita NYC

    I agree, for this reminds me of the thread regarding Paula Deen and her denial at being racist. When you have been indoctrinated and for so long, you do not see the wrongness anymore or tend to excuse it and turn a blind eye. That is why at first frisson of distaste, it is best at times to simply stay away.

    Please note that I am in no way comparing CeleBitchy to racist bigots, but I am making a comparison of how effective leitmotivs can become, no matter how ridiculous or simplified fun they were at their inception.

  • Eve

    Maguita, I sincerely hope you're not suggesting I'm in denial, turning a blind eye or making excuses for what's wrong with CB. And if (indeed) you're not, I apologize in advance.

    I can see many threads there turning into really nasty "me vs. you" battles, and that's why I avoid them (also because I couldn't care less about the subject being discussed). But the fact I remain a regular poster there doesn't mean I condone said behaviour (nor that I'm oblivious to it).

    It is, after all, a gossip site -- it does not pretend to be anything else. Pajibans may consider their website a higher form of entertainment blogging (no sarcasm intended). I, however, take CB for what it is: a gossip blog, nothing more.

    P.S.: I understand that you didn't necessarily compare CB posters to Paula Deen or her supporters but the example was, nonetheless, rather unfortunate.

  • NateMan

    Aren't they all gay Jew devil-worshippers?

  • Mrs. Julien

    Mostly with the gay. There's a lot about being secretly gay. And if the person in question is not for some unfathomable reason secretly gay, then there are other selfish, entitled, "they are the devil" ascribed motivations.

  • NateMan

    I'll take your word for it. I try not to read comments on most sites... A 5 minute perusal on the most innocuous game or TV story on IGN makes me feel like I need a bath. And that site is still better than most.

  • chanohack

    Whenever I read comments on other sites I'm like, "These people are fucked up. Back to Pajiba!"

  • Mrs. Julien

    I try to avoid it all together as if I look at it (or comparable things like The Daily Mail), then I'm feeding the beast. When I do take a look I am not proud of myself.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    See, I kinda feel like the actually Celebitchy posts are the equivalent of most other sites' comments. Bitchy, I enjoy. Catty, like Celebitchy, I do not.

  • apsutter

    Daily Mail is the worst! It's basically Yahoo comments multiplied by 20. Every horrific douchebag worldwide goes on there to be awful human beings.

  • NateMan

    We all do things we're ashamed of. For some of us it's masturbating in public. For others, it's reading gossip news. I leave it to you to decide which is worse. :)

  • Mrs. Julien

    I can guess which would be more satisfying.

  • apsutter

    Oh yea...well that's any celeb gossip site, it seems. I just tend to avoid that stuff

  • Mrs. Julien

    And all their material comes from the tabloids, so it gets very ouroboros-y over there.

    I would love to see a longitudinal study of the veracity of tabloid articles. I bet there's a master's thesis about it somewhere out there.

  • alacrify

    I'll bet xkcd could do it :)

  • Pawesl

    She also helped start this by posting and Instagram Pic right after the rumors began of her staring at his Superman poster telling all her followers to go see it. I think that is a large reason why people think she is the one behind this. It looked like she was enamored with Henry while he said and did nothing until the supermarket run last week.

    And yes Cavill Fangirls think that he is too good for her despite the fact they likely know nothing about him only that he is really good looking and "out of her league". I've read some pretty nasty comments about her online since this began and it really isn't fair to her. Though I'm not going to lie this 'relationship' did seem wholly manufactured if that indeed is what it was. 2 weeks isn't long enough to be dating, you are not even out of the courtship faze yet. It was clearly a PR move and a pretty poor one at that. It was the transparency that got the fangirls all riled up.

    And despite you saying she had nothing to gain from it, she did whether she wanted to or not. She jumped up on a lot of people's radar who previously didn't give her a second thought. And she DID agree to it so there must have been something in it for her as well.

  • Allijo99

    Even more ridiculous is that people would get on Kaley's case when it was SO OBVIOUSLY a big fat set up by PR people that was handled so badly. If we are going to criticize anyone or anything, it should be the sub-par professional skills of their PR agent.

    Also, Benedict Cumberbatch would never. Because he's perfect.

  • NateMan

    I know it's popular to hate on Big Bang Theory, though I find it largely inoffensive and occasionally very funny. I've always enjoyed Cuoco's character, which to me was typically shown to have little self-doubt and shame over her sexual adventures, which I liked, and showed her to be pretty well-grounded. They never made her seem stupid, even if she's uneducated.

    I think part of it is just like you said. The woman is (always) at fault in these sorts of matters. I think it's also that people (read: mostly women, because few men give a shit) also thought Cuoco wasn't 'good enough' for him, whatever that means. Her character can seem like your typical, dim-witted and stereotypical blonde, and there's a particular hate for that breed which I've never understood. She's not pretty enough or smart enough or some bullshit.

    And I hate to say it, but your gender can be mean. Sure, men can be (probably mostly are) assholes, and 'fat\ugly bitch' are often the first words out of a man's mouth when he's too stupid to actually hold a discussion or argument with a woman, but, particularly when it comes to gossip, I've never known a man to show half as much sustained vitriol as some members of the fairer sex. I don't understand it, and it's certainly not all women, probably not even most. But here, Cuoco is paying for that tendency.

  • My problem with Big Bang Theory is that it's pretty offensive, both in it's use of stereotypes that are often misogynist/racist/homophobic and in their lazy use of sitcom tropes. They took a good premise and made it into another typical CBS sitcom, which is not much of surprise given that Chuck Lorre writes it.

    I don't get anything about the Cavill/Cuoco "relationship", which is why I almost never devote any thought to such things. I'll just say what I did in the previous conversation about these two, which is that I don't think it's crazy that Cavill would want to date Cuoco if we were to take this situation seriously and not just a publicity thing.

  • NateMan

    I agree with you on the latest episodes, to a certain degree - certainly on the misogyny lately, where they've involved the girls more, and often badly. I prefer to think of the first few seasons, where Penny came across as fairly strong and independent. It was never great television, but I personally didn't find it offensive. The guys ragged on each other in ways that might not have been PC, but it also wasn't much different than the way I and my gay friends or those of different ethnic backgrounds rag on each other. But that's certainly a matter of taste, and I can see where you're coming from.

  • Maguita NYC

    I quite saddly agree with your point.

    In a world where we have finally realized our worth, we are often hindered by ourselves and other women who are still under the misconception that we are in competition against one another. We really should learn from men, and support each other (even in extremes) blindly and loyally.

    I've always admired that about men. Women would fare so much better if they choose to support other women first, in the hopes that one day we achieve true equilibrium in equality.

  • InternetMagpie

    I get your point, but I think women are conditioned to see other women as competition. This is a direct result of patriarchy.

  • Maguita NYC

    We've understood how patriarchy affects us for quite some time now. We can keep on blaming a paternalist environment for our poor standing in society, while shitting on one another pretending to be victims of circumstances.

    Or, we can take control and always encourage and support one another no matter what. A united front breaking old habits, ingraining new ones.

  • InternetMagpie

    But your statements seemed to be blaming women.

  • Maguita NYC

    It may seem so when not taken into context, which in this case was in response to @NateMan's initial comment:

    "And I hate to say it, but your gender can be mean"...

    And I agreed. We ARE meaner towards one another, we do shit on women first and forgive men a lot easier for a LOT worse. Men support each other no matter what. Or for the most part, when they disagree with one another they let it go, not nitpick, castigate and then hold a grudge.

    And in answer to your comment on blaming patriarchy, we will never achieve equality if as women we do not support each other first, the same way men do. And most importantly, be as easily forgiving, accepting, merciful or at the very least LENIENT towards other women as we do men.

    We can't keep shooting ourselves in the foot, and wondering how come our rights are being so easily encroached and infringed on a daily basis. Isn't it beyond time to take action of CONSEQUENCE? This may sound a tad political, and it really is no reflection on your general comments @InternetMagpie, but @Courtney Enlow's post has brought forward once more how petty we are, and how sadly we lack foresight on obvious hurtful behavior.

  • Seriously, why is it every time sexism is brought up, someone always has to come in and say 'but the ladies are the meanest!'

    Yeah, we get it. No-ones saying that its only men that are being sexist. The post is calling out sexism generally, not men, not women, but sexism. Which can come from either gender. So chill.

  • NateMan

    Dude, if I got any more chill this morning I'd be comatose. I'm barely conscious as is.

    As to why it gets brought up it's probably because regardless of what you think, sexism in terms of women vs. women doesn't get brought up nearly as often as men's\media's objectification in these discussions, at least not outside of a college lecture, not in my experience. And it's an important part of the discussion to have, particularly when we're discussing the gossip swirling around a Hollywood break up that matters not one whit. So while you might not think it's worth pointing out, I did. And still do.

  • I'm pretty sure it's gets brought up every freaking time sexism is mentioned.

    I just wish that people didn't automatically assume calling out sexism meant criticising the male gender. We're all complicit.

    ETA: I want to get off my high horse to edit this comment so I don't sound so cantankerous but it's 1am on a Friday night and I've been drinking so I'm afraid I might injure myself.

  • Mrs. Julien

    I read an article recently about the way sisters are treated as competitors in the press: one is always the "bad" one. The example they used was the Kate Middleton and her sister Pippa. It's another old and ridiculous trope.

  • NateMan

    Well that one's obvious. One landed a prince; the other didn't. Clearly there's something wrong with the latter! My guess is she eats babies.

  • CosmoNewanda

    Babies are the key to having an ass that nice? But I've been dieting!

  • Cazadora

    It's an archetype trigger -- story old as time -- Adam and Eve.

  • NateMan

    Go back even further: Adam and Eve and Lilith!

  • bleujayone

    You mean she is every bit the immortal succubus Frasier always claimed she was?

  • Mrs. Julien

    It's not like she worships the devil.

    Of course not, he WORSHIPS HER!

  • Eve

    Upvoting for the mention of one of my favourite Frasier moments ever.

  • Mrs. Julien

    Sorry, I deleted it when I realised it was the wrong reference

    And then the Accuracy Police showed up to arrest me.

  • Eve

    Great, now I look ridiculous -- thank you!

    *humpf*

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