Pajiba

Should we copy and paste all the comments from yesterday's Pajiba Love and save everyone the trouble?

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying. I have felt melancholy about Winehouse's death all weekend and I have no idea why. I had to DEFEND my FB updates and posts because people could not find the room in their hearts and dismissed her because she is a junkie and that you should celebrate life. Sure that is all fine and dandy, but you cannot ignore that it is a wasted life and it's a shame that she could not get the help she deserved. Also, I feel that addicts have a very hard time doing this and they often succumb to the demons of their addictions so often, it's easier for them to live in their own mess. Amy was talented, so was Heath...and it's totally okay to mourn them even if they are celebrities. It does not make them less human. Celebrity tends to make one immortal, and if they make a mistake and are less than perfect, they are callously demonized for being human. There is something wrong with this...sure I have no time for assholes like Lohan. But talented individuals who happen to be celebrities are not immortal nor perfect. NO ONE is, and it's a shame that people have to feel all superior and cast blame on those who are vulnerable to their addictions.

In our society, we are asked to have a position on everyone and everything. When you have the death of someone famous, there's going to be a shared connection with others who supported or disliked that famous person. An event like a death gives people the opportunity to unite with those of similar thinking and share their position. That's even easier now with the Internet and social media despite the fact that nuance and complexity fade into larger, simpler stances.

I think there's an interesting discussion in here about our society's increasing tendency to outright blame others for their lot in life, instead of looking at the contextual factors that can and often do have just as big of an impact as one's personal actions. This is pretty much the foundation for current Tea Party rhetoric, and an extension of the 'good in theory but totally unrealistic and actually pretty exclusionary' bootstrap mentality our country was founded on. Our media also fuels this with celebrities, as they feed us bad celebrity behavior to endlessly scrutinize yet we fail to address the toxic culture they are so permeated in that encourages them to be this way in the first place. We have truly lost the ability to see the human being in our neighbor and fellow man, and people can be as snarky as they want and claim to hate everyone equally, but I tend not to find this "joke" very funny anymore. I don't think we're handling our constantly changing and complex world very well, leading people to plant themselves firmly in the black or white corners and refusing to see any of the gray in between.

Rock bottom for some people is very low. For my spouse's step-mother it was brain damage (it is difficult for her to create new memories; she no idea that she is divorced, has grandchildren, and has been hospitalized until she is reminded). For a dear friend of mine, rock bottom is the recent realization that he is tens-of-thousands of dollars in debt and homeless (crashing with some dude does not mean you have a place to live). He's moving home to get help.

For Winehouse, rock bottom was death.

Junkies are people. Amy Winehouse was a person and it won't just be her family that mourns her passing. Her music was awesome. I know that might not be a popular opinion, but I loved every song she wrote or performed. She had a smoothe, sexy voice; a cool, kind-of old style; and devilishly addictive beats. She joins a tragic legacy of other musicians who just rocked too hard and met an early death at age 27.

Hopefully it will be a lesson for the next bewitching belle.

I can't do any more for the junkie down the street than I could for Amy Winehouse, which is show some compassion.

Holy crap, Courtney, that's beautifully well-written.

My uncle was one of those who hit rock bottom, but fought tooth and nail to get back clean. He was drug-free for a blessed three years, but was found dead from an overdose in the apartment of one of his old "friends."

There was only one way his story was going to end, like Ms. Winehouse's. His wasn't public like hers, but there's not a damn thing wrong with feeling pain and sympathy for her family.

You don't have to "save" your sympathy. You can generate enough sympathy for everyone who dies tragically.

I know. It's soooo hard, right? Being human is such a drag sometimes.

This was lovely. Thank you.

My only beef with this whole issue is that I never found her music all that appealing. But every artists has their fans, non-fans, and detractors. Let me tell you, if I had been around when Hendrix kicked it, I'd be feeling much the same way that you fans feel lately.

However, her spiral into addiction is something many of us can relate to, and is the real tragedy here. It's undeniable the girl had talent, and to see that talent not only wasted, but scuttled is a loss to the music community as a whole. Worse still, you have people who don't understand this disease saying some awfully childish and ignorant things all over the internet. And for what?

It sucks when people die. It sucks when that death is the result of mistakes they have made. It sucks even worse when it could have been prevented.

I actually don't think this is the only way it could have went, though. You have to believe that people can beat their addictions. You have to believe that there is SOME way to end the dependence, even if it's the 20th, or 50th attempt to do so. The addicted need that support to get and stay sober. The problem is, sometimes you don't have the time to find the method that works - this is one of those cases. I only hope that this can serve as a cautionary tale to even a few lucky souls who use it to motivate themselves out of addiction, or to never get to this point in the first place. Maybe that way some good can come of it.

I see your point, BSlim, but just because we express sympathy for a dead addict on a board where that specific death is one of the main topics, and don't leap at the opportunity to soapbox on behalf of addicts everywhere, doesn't mean we don't feel compassion for the non-famous sufferers and their loved ones as well.

Now for my main point*(Okay, extremely sleep-deprived today due to insane work schedule, so bear with me. Will try really hard not to misspeak or say something stupid here:)*

For my part, one of the main things that made Winehouse's death sad to me was how it reminded me of other people who need help (and there are several I'm close to), who either haven't tried help or haven't found a recovery path that works for them. My mother is a non-recovered bipolar alcoholic who's made several unsuccessful recovery attempts and suffered countless close calls (many of which happened well before I hit puberty), so when I read about an addict or mental illness sufferer who ended up dead because of it, I get bummed out on a few different levels. Think "another one bites the dust" in a way that hits too close to home.

I couldn't post on yesterday's board because, when you grow up with the mentally ill and/or addicted, you can develop a really short fuse when people discuss those issues in a callous/cavalier yet smug/superior sort of way. It hurt and angered me past the point where I was capable of discussing the matter rationally.

Soooo...I'm very glad Courtney wrote this piece. I would encourage folks to also read the Russel Brand piece, if they haven't already, as he makes some excellent points about being and caring about an addict.

Finally, I would ask people, when discussing complex and painful personal matters on message boards, especially in a tightly knit community like this one, to remember that without firsthand experience, there's a lot you probably don't know about it. Hell, even if you do have firsthand experience, it's important to remember that when it happens, it's different for everyone. It leaves a different mark one everyone. My two siblings and I grew up with the same mother, and yet we all came away with unique baggage. Go figure.

Basically, please don't condemn in ignorance.

/soapbox

You seem perfectly content with being judgmental but that is a terrible way to go through life. You can control that far more easily than an addict can control their addiction.

Very well said, Lena!

@M - "Addiction is a DISEASE. No one takes their first sip of wine with the thought, "Damn, I can't wait to be an alcoholic." Same thing with drugs. No one chooses to be an addict. It is a disease and a very tragic, sad one."

Actually, no, taking a sip of wine for the first time is very different from trying crack/cocaine/heroin. They are such dangerous and awful drugs and you can't develop an addiction to them without being stupid enough to try them first. I know people who have overcome addictions and it is possible. Especially if you have resources and support, which many addicted people don't. Of course you can have sympathy for people who succumb to their addictions and are never able to overcome them, but it really doesn't compare at all to those people who were gunned down in Oslo - they wanted to live and didn't even get a chance.

LK - At what point did I compare someone succumbing to addiction to those who lost their lives in Oslo?

Why is their this need right now to say draw comparisons between the two? I am watching someone I love very, vey much lose their battle with addiction. Thus, the Amy Winehouse news struck a nerve with me. Does this mean I didn't mourn for those in Oslo? Of course not. I was horrified and baffled and at a loss to even comprehend what happened to them. But... those are two different events, two different news stories and I don't see the need to constantly bring up one to bash down the other.

Certain people around here take joy in pushing other people's buttons. This is, sadly, going to happen everytime a celebrity dies. Did you pay attention to who brought up Ryan Dunn yesterday and how they did it? They were trolling (different from being at troll, this is when an otherwise reasonable person decides to mess around with people for the lulz). It was intentional. People responded. Other people popped in to try and burn the place down. It's the Pajiba way.

Be thankful it wasn't a race war.

Actually, no. I miss the race wars. At least those were absurd at face value. These "fuck you for grieving/not grieving/calling someone out for their illegal actions/how dare you say a dead person committed a crime" battles are just sad.

bleujayone said, over on the tangled thread of ugliness, "Ms. Winehouse had throngs of people telling her daily she needed to get help (I'm sure there were a number of others who encouraged her otherwise but that's another discussion)."

It's really NOT another discussion if the topic is choice. Do we withhold our sympathy because of an addict's choices? I guarantee you that for every concerned loved one who tried to help, there were a throng of leeches enabling her behavior for their own sick ends. The Road Manager may be trying his best to keep her in the green room with the healthy snacks and the bottled water, but there are a hundred other runners/ groupies/ amateur local crew fucks who just want a chance to party with a rock star. And you can't chain her in the green room. Once the tour is over and she's back at home, the problem gets worse, because there are even fewer wet nurses around in real life. But the leeches are always thirsty. Your non-celebrity addict has a glimmer of hope for sobriety. But there's so much working against the rock star addicts that it's a wonder ANY of them ever make it. (I confess I know very little about movie stars, but I assume the situations are similar.)

Compassion in this case would certainly not be out of the question.

Its no secret I've been disillusioned with this site and its recent penchant for bringing female writers. I felt as though the writing suffered.
But with this piece, Courtney (I assume is female-but it doesn't matter) has redeemed both the site and her gender.
As a 45 year old fart with an attitude, I'm a bit out of my zone with you crazy kids of today and your pants around your ass fashions. But Amy's music touched me deeply and I thought she was incredibly talented. I waited for her to catch her shit and do more with her gifts but i knew it wasn't to be.
I find myself looking at her pictures and feeling sad, listening to her music and feeling everything. I read this piece and felt not as alone.
Nice job, Courtney.

As someone pointed out in the other thread, mourning someone's passing and yet thinking they were stupid and self-destructive are not mutually exclusive.

And my original point stands (as barbadoslim reiterated): the only difference between Amy and some other drug-waster you'd turn your back on is that she had a talent. I wasn't arguing that her talent nullified the right to mourn her, I was arguing that those same people wouldn't mourn the meth head who stole your plumbing. That's just another Darwin Award in someone's blog. Selective sympathy is cowardly and self-serving.

I wish I was king instead of god.

I fail to see how advising someone with serious emotional issues to seek help is the wrong thing to do. But it does seem in line with a lot of what I've read so far. Enjoy your victimhood.

Protoguy, I don't think I would rejoice in the death of the crackhead who stole something from me. I'd still feel bad for them. I've seen a lot of crime and I've seen where most criminals come from. To be honest, I don't know how they survived.

I kindly ask you not to immediately assume that we wouldn't feel compassion for someone who did us wrong. They're still human, and feeling compassion for them makes us human, too.

I agree with you that we have to help ourselves, but it takes most people a while to get to that conclusion. We don't all function in the same ways.

If someone dies due to a drug overdose after robbing me, they havne't precluded themselves from receiving my sympathy because of the theft; and you're being presumptuous to assume that they would. Robbing me and dying aren't related incidents. I can both be pissed that I was robbed, and sympathetic for the tragedy. Anger and sadness are hardly mutually exclusive feelings.

I can understand that it might be hyperbole, but do you think your father thought that about you saying it? Do you think he meant it in that fashion? I understand it was said to open his eyes, but your own statement says his response opened yours to his pain, not really vice-versa. I'm trying hard to not say anything harsh at this point as some people seem to take argument and discussion a little too personally, but in my OPINION, your father should have been horrified and asked YOU if you needed help. He should have broke down crying that he caused you that much pain, not turned it back around to his own pain. That's the selfishness and weakness that people are talking about. You had just finished telling him about all the pain he's causing you and his response was "Yeah, so? I'm in pain too." Maybe that was the only response he could muster, maybe he's a hardass and can't show love in that way, I don't know and I'm not trying to shit on him for it. I just have a hard time believing that addiction did that.

And again, if suggesting people should seek help when they're in pain is wrong, then screw all you. You're too interested in winning your own arguments based on your pwecious feewings than arguing a real point.

Good article. I, too, grow very tired of how this sort of thing crops up every single time someone famous passes away. Don't belittle those who mourn, and don't be so quick to judge those who've died. There are more worthwhile debates we could be expending our energy on than whether it's "okay" to mourn Amy Winehouse. Of course it is.

mothy, you should take some of your own advice. you claim this site has suffered because of female writers yet even you have admittied you are guessing the writers "gender" (and the fact you dont know the difference between sex and gender makes your remarks even more stupid) yet you lecture others about not judging?

Here's what it boils down to for me: It either affects you or it doesn't. And (here's the important part) you have NO right to tell anyone how to be affected by something. If a person is sad that someone died, why do you have to be the asshole and mock them for it? What purpose does it serve? Do you think the other person will just erase those feelings and go over to your side? Is that your life? Feel angry if you must, but damn, why lash out at people who you know are feeling bad? Damn, that just makes you an asshole.

Protoguy and So what, well said. If it's a disease, as so many here want to believe, then why do we criminalize it, incarcerate people for it, punish them for being so afflicted?

I see addicts all the live-long-day at work, and it always strikes me as passing curious that they can cure their "disease" by attending meetings or, as So what did, by a simple act of will.

The only truly ugliness I've seen here lately is the contemptible abuse directed at a cancer survivor for daring to point out that Winehouse simply got what she seemed to want more than life itself.

smijca, thank you for responding calmly and with thought. I apologize if I might not have at times. I do try, but I admit to being rather grumpy. I'm glad your father found his way.

I also freely admit that I have small patience for some things, such as cutting and suicide threats and even anorexia. I know it's likely to bring out the sharp knives, you know, the people who scream I should have tolerance but don't seem to be able to tolerate someone else's thoughts or opinions?

I don't think it's that black and white.. I spent years, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, waiting for RDJ to be found dead alone in a motel room.. Or Trent Reznor.. They both pulled through.

I do agree about looking inward and all that.. these people are for better or worse our mirrors sometimes..

I think what strikes me most about all this is how eagerly and gleefully many of us check out the newest scandals in celebrity lives (Winehouse drunk in dirty ballet slippers! Lohan broke, stumbles and rants!)and then expend the same amount of energy berating or bemoaning those very celebrities' tragic fates.
We have a word for that over here - Schadenfreude.
So I agree with many of the more eloquent posts above - let's spend less time googling celebrity mishaps and deaths and look to solving our own issues as well as those of our community.

Courtney, this piece really was perfectly written and really does express all the frustration I've been feeling about the way people have reacted to Amy's death.

There is one thing I want to add personally though. The thing that makes me so sad about Amy's death is not just that she was talented (which she was) or that she was an addict, its that she seemed like an absolutely lovely person. When I first started listening to her music I scoured youtube and watched tons of her videos and interviews. She was a funny, thoughtful, sweet person who was often consumed by the love she had for her boyfriend and then husband. This is the real theme of "Rehab" (I'm going to lose my baby, so I always keep a bottle near) and this was something I always identified with.

Watch some of her interviews if you can find them or even re-watch her Grammy performance, where you can see her mugging for her husband in prison, going so far as repeatedly including his name and prison number in her songs. Then watch her win her grammy and rush to hug her mother before even realizing she hasn't made her speech yet. There has always been something deeply touching about Amy Winehouse and the way she always had her whole life laid bare for the world to see.

So I'm going to mourn her not just because she was talented or tragic, but because she seemed like a wonderful person who couldn't see how wonderful she was.

Drink, do drugs, or don't everything else is bullshit. It's your choice and no one else can make that choice for you. If you fail to recognize the choice that doesn't mean you didn't make a choice, if it makes you a loser that's your choice as well.

Money talks, BS walks.