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Most people in my circle of friends are upset they cast nancy grace lol. As a transperson, I am totally happy to see Chaz bringing the transgender agenda to tv ;). I wish him luck though I am betting on my boy Ron Ron to win it all.

i am excited for this season of dtws. even though i do not watch, as a transperson its exciting for me to have someone with visibility on a prime time network show.

Mr. Stich please take your transphobic asshole comments somewhere else. Thanks.

I haven't watched this show for the past couple of seasons, but knowing the show open and accepting to ALL people, I will be tuning in again!

I love you, Courtney.

Over on TWoP, the current poll is "Who Are You Rooting For On Dancing With the Stars?" and right now, Chaz Bono has the lead. Ok, I realize that it's a small lead and that it's just a silly poll, BUT STILL. It made me happy to see that there are people rooting for him instead of trying to tear him down.

Also, Rob Kardashian and Nancy Grace are last. AS IT SHOULD BE.

Well, crap. I was NOT going to watch because I heard Nancy Grace was going to be on, and that lady annoys the snot out of me. But now I'll watch for Chaz, and for Carson Kressly, who should be FABulous!

Mr Stitch - Can't tell if trolling or serious...

I love Cher's response. I remember that she admitted at first that she had trouble calling Chaz "he" but she has obviously worked on that has never wavered in her support for him.

Anyone who objects to gay people being on TV but has been watching DWTS needs a reality check.

Why does this surprise anyone? The ABC audience is notoriously conservative. This is the same network that owns ABC Family and allows Pat Robertson to spew his hate weekly.
For my part, I hate all these talent shows (personal taste, not judging anyone else's), but I wish Americans who like talent shows would stop thinking someone only has talent if a C-list celebrity with an English accent tells them so. What's wrong with American judges? Please, somebody tell me.

"assault on moral values?" Why aren't these people angry that Nancy Grace is on the show? Oh yeah. Because she's one of them.

I have a friend who recently had a M-F transgender op. He was twice married, fathered several children, ex military, Vice cop, bomb squad, and not gay at all. He was also a life long cross dresser and felt out of place in his own body. At age 60something he had the op, and is now a she. SHE is a lesbian now, I guess, since HE was straight. SHE does not pass easily in society, she is not a very ummm, "convincing" woman. SHE is finally at peace now in her own skin. I tell you, the first time I saw her after the surgery I developed a whole new sympathy for how hard it is for men to not stare at women's boobs. CAN'T LOOK AWAY.

"at least be famous for being something other than being transgendered"

well, when i was a kid, chastity would make appearances on the sonny and cher variety show...
and then i saw her again in "bar girls" back in the mid-90s.
-long before the reassignment surgery.

ZombieNurse, exactly! Switch the fuck over, no one is forcing you to watch and if the inclusion of ONE person turns you off an entire show, you never liked it that much in the first place!

I'm sure their social lives will be far more rewarding watching fucking....some...knitting shit, I don't even know 'how to knit hate into your childrens blankets, catchemyoung' or some shit. Assholes.
Rock on Chaz, you will be awesome. Well hopefully. You may well be a TERRIBLE dancer, or a physical genius but we will SUPPORT YOU EITHER WAY.

Adding about Chaz having courage to go on the show:

That takes a lot of BALLS! {rimshot}

Look, this show doesn't get my approval unless they allow the LAMBADA!! FREE THE FORBIDDEN DANCE!!!

And this little kerfuffle is misplaced because Nancy Grance is more manly than I will ever be.

TO: Mr. Stitch
RE: 'Reality'
I do not think it means what you think it means.

Mr Snitch, genitalia and DNA =/= gender identity. Take that up with the entire medical profession if you want to change the handbooks. And for the records, Chaz is pre-op. That means that he is still deciding whether or not to have gender re-assignment surgery. It is especially difficult, risky, and painful for female to male patients for a number of reasons. If you think going into a specialist's office for hormone injections means that he is responsible for someone's death, you have problems. What a disgusting little troll you've turned out to be.

Dearest Reality,

It’s such a bummer that some people are venomous assholes. I think you should bless Mr. Stitch with at least one transgender child. Thanks a billion.

Kisses,
Scully

Don’t blame ABC, they didn’t put a gun to Chaz Bono’s head and demand that he/she appear on their show. People have the right to voice their opinions no matter how ridiculous. Bono also didn’t come here with clean hands, ABC and Bono know what the score is. Bono knows he/she is a freak show and he/she plays it up every chance he/she gets. The broad/dude has no discerning talent to speak of but yet he/she winds up on a fucking dancing show just because he/she has a new pecker. And you want the public to ignore that the broad/dude is walking around with a new nine inch cock? Just wait until this circus hit the airwaves, ABC is going to get a twenty share. Motherfuckers going to be watching just to see if they can get a quick peek at that new cock bulge in his/her pants.

I know where your coming from and I absolutely agree with you Courtney, but, I want a dollar for every time somebody on DWTS mentions that Chaz used to be female and something about her strength of character. I'ma going to get paid!

For future reference, referring to a transgendered person as "he/she" or "s/he" or "it" is pretty damn offensive. I won't go so far as to say it's hate speech. It's kind of the equivalent of your crazy old high school teacher who thinks she should still call black people "negroes" because that's the more acceptable term she learned.

Chaz is a human being. If he chooses to identify as a man and transition into that lifestyle, he deserves to be treated as a human being making a choice. Calling him a "he/she" or "s/he" is categorizing him as some unknown monster that deserves to be treated differently.

There have been freakshows (Kim Kardashian, Kendra, The Situation) on the show before and they were not called freakshows. They were not accused of being on the show just to drum up ratings as a publicity stunt and they were referred to by the proper pronouns. Why is Chaz being treated different? No sex tape, no pornographic spreads, and no bringing home of a different woman every night to sleep with on camera.

Someone has seriously overlooked the necessity of Hope Solo pictures in this post. Balance out these contestant photos, please!

Robert is my favorite today.

Also, MelBiv, I was coming to say the same thing: I'm pretty sure heart surgeons and plastic surgeons are two different animals.

DERN IT ALL TO HELL!!

GEEPERS HE DERNED MY WHOLE DAY! FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT!

@suprasente: Get him a "Female Character" t-shirt. It could help. ;)

Oh, Pookie, you're so right. I didn't realize your comment was meant to be taken in a fun and kicky context. It's hard to read tone online, am I right? It's just that without being able to look at your smiling eyes and jovial demeanor, your words make you sound like a giant fucking prick. Sorry and LOL!!!

So THIS is how Dancing With the Stars gets mentioned on Pajiba!

While I could care less who sleeps with who, as long as no small children or small animals are involved, I am offended by "Dancing With the Stars".

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcHP5xGhVLvmZGRnY3RocWdfMHc4ZHpza2c3&hl=en

Hey look, everyone! A handy dandy glossary that will tell you what not to say if you don't want to be a motherfucking douchebag!

Also, there really isn't any safe, reliable genital surgery for FTM folks. It's easier to dig a hole than build a pole and all that. So Chaz has not, in all likelihood, taken up anyone's time on an operating table for that reason.

Here's my dilemna, I have three little girls, 9 (soon to be 10) and 6 year old twins, that love watching the show for the dancing. So, they don't know, nor care about any of the previous misdeeds of the contestants. In the last two seasons, the envelope has continued to get pushed. Trying the explain why Erin Andrews and Maks had a bed on the stage was difficult enough, and we've taken to muting Bruno whenever he speaks. I'm not looking to shelter my girls, the eldest will need to have the "talk" soon enough... I just don't see why I have to explain that Chaz Bono is a he, that used to be a she, as ABC will undoubtedly (and rightly) bring up, just to watch a show about dancing. Take my girls out to the equation, I have no problem with whomever wants to be on the show, but sadly, I think we'll have to pass on this season.

@antietam: It has been a while since I've been 9 or 6 but I'm pretty sure at that time, at least at 6, I would have had no idea of what was going on on the show besides entertaining dancing and not enough toy commercials.

If anything, it might be a good thing if it opens up natural conversation. After all, you probably won't believe what's probably already being talked about on the playground by the intermediate grades. In my white bread school I went home in 5th grade and announced that all the girls at school wanted to be hookers for Halloween and I wanted to be one too.

Ghisent - I admit to being more on the conservative spectrum. I have thought about it a lot. There is much more at play in my recent life that makes me hesitant to talk to them about it now... and not because of a TV show. However, it is something that I know I will discuss with them eventually.

@antietam let your kids watch the show mute it when its not dancing and it should be fine. i understand the reasoning why you don't want to explain it to them but unfortunately transpeople exist and sooner or later they might encounter someone especially since transpeople are becoming increasingly visible. i wish abc wouldn't make a big deal about chaz besing chastity before. Chaz is obviously happy and thats all that matters.

@bweaves that's the name of my fantasy football team now. so i am glad we both like that phrase.

It's nice to know there are Americans who take a game show so seriously. Really gives me confidence in the future of our country to know that good, upstanding people don't want the gays messing up a TV dance contest featuring D-list celebrities wearing sparkly outfits and flopping around on the stage like they're having a seizure.

Before you know it, the gays will invade figure skating, and THEN where will we all be?

@antietam, I would like to ask you, with all respect, why this is different than previous celebrities from that show?

Did you have to explain all about pre-marital sex and birth out of wedlock when Bristol Palin was on the show?

Or that sometimes, young, attractive women decide to share a really old, rich dude when they aren't taking their clothes off for money?

Or that sometimes, when a man and a woman love each other very much, the man pees all over the woman during sex which they videotape and sell on the internet?

The fretting about Chaz seems a little selective.

@ antietam
I'm a big, grown up lady and the only way I will watch DWTS is on mute through everything but the dance parts. I cannot stand any of the drama or human interest parts, especially since they quit featuring stars and offer viewers the likes of Kendra, Kate Gosselin, Kim Kardashian, little Miss Palin, and The Situation.

In fact, if I really want to watch the show, I record it and fast forward through everything but the dancing. BTW, I do the same thing for America's Best Dance Crew. I like dancing, not talking about what particular hardships the dancers are facing.

@Kirbyjay, why ask if I’m African American? Why not ask me why I don’t show empathy towards Chaz Bono? Empathy should be the main thing and not someone’s ethnicity. Kirbyjay you come off sounding so condescending with your “ the black guy should show some empathy seeing as he’s black and he should know all about prejudices, being black and all.” I know that’s not what you meant to say, but just relax and enjoy life.

@Nicole, honey, what is it about “Dancing With the Fucking Stars” that makes you want to get all serious with me? We are talking about some dude or chick that wants to be a chick or a dude and then enter a dancing contest with a chick or a dude as a partner. That’s what it all boils down to. God bless Chaz Bono, I hope Chaz Bono wins. I can’t even muster up enough negative energy to fight your negativity. This is a tough room.

I give up Koolickle, you win.

antietam - Speaking as someone who has taught 9 and 10 year olds, your daughter already knows. If you haven't had "the talk" with her by now, you're too late.

As for all the Chaz stuff - how many more people are talking about DWTS now because of this? How many more people will tune in now, whether it's because they support his choice or they just want to see how the trainwreck that is that show looks? ABC knew exactly what they were doing, and they're only jumping on the Chaz/Kressly bandwagon because they're wanting to improve their image with people who are increasingly becoming more accepting of that lifestyle. Chaz's personal choice isn't the issue here. I will continue to not watch because the dancing is bad and the celebrities are boring caricatures.

Reading these comments makes me wonder how many Pajibans live in red states...I have never witnessed such amazing and eloquent discourse on this subject in my life, ever, and I live in a super conservative state. Sometimes I feel like I'm surrounded by homophobic, transphobic asshats, and that maybe I'm the weirdo for not getting their reasoning. Sure, I've met quite a few people here who don't give a shizz what others do with their "nether kraken", but they are very much in the minority where I live.

And goodness, I thought it was pretty much understood around here that Pookie constantly makes outrageously provocative comments which are not meant to be taken very seriously, and sometimes even make me laugh a bit. Dude never met a sacred cow he didn't try to make into hamburger. Did I miss something? Why so serious all of a sudden?

I can't believe people watch that shit show. No idea why Mr. Bono would be on it. Oh and, ah, what sort of "star" is he, exactly?

My reaction to this bullshit controversy was, Really? People care enough about a fucking dancing show to get all up in arms about a transman (transwoman? I don't fucking know, someone help me here) competing for money to give to charity? How dull and fucked up are people's lives that they are getting enraged over a damned dancing show? If suburban hill people are so fucking worried about the role models their kids are growing up with, they should start with themselves - quit being such vitriolic, judgemental assholes and your children will grow up to be better people. (Not you, obviously, antietam. You seem neither vitriolic nor judgmental in your discomfort with the impending "talk" with your oldest daughter.)

I don't care about anyone's nether regions but my own but I would like to see the GI that was injured in Iraq win. Now that's a star.

"Anyone who objects to gay people being on TV but has been watching DWTS needs a reality check.

Posted by: FyreHaar at September 1, 2011 2:24 PM"

EXACTLY!

The only schweatty God damn thing I take offense to is that Chaz Bono couldn't be on some...less horrible show (reality or otherwise).

I realize that many parents are exacerbated by the fact that the LGBT community exists, much like I imagine they find it increasingly more difficult to explain what a "Mexican" is and why they have to "sully our white neighborhoods cutting the grass and selling oranges." But I hope to Christ you have more problems to contend with than keeping the eyes and ears of your spawn clean and tidy from the rest of the perverts in this world who aren't Christian whitefolk.

We should be more sympathetic of how problematic it is for you, because this whale turd of a program targets you and old ladies, and frankly, you deserve to be coddled from such filth! The dwindling existence of shows that ignore the fact that we live in a diverse, ever-expanding society has got you all in a tizzy, and we should all be more understanding! I get it, I do. Perhaps your children would enjoy Mad Men, as it's 99% white people and the Gay character has already been fired. I'm sure the profanity and explicit sex will be far easier to explain than gays, colored folk or people with accents. Fucking foreigners!

I've been having a hard time understanding what would motivate Chaz Bono to agree to be added to a list of waxy, gold-digging, complexion-challenged (i.e. orange, folks. yes I am slightly racist toward tanning bed junkies), illiterate (possibly retarded?), and downright vexatious buttholes that have been on DWTS. I don't think it has to do with money -- I seriously hope it doesn't, at least. I'd like to believe it has to do with championing the pre-op/post-op community by showing the world that...he's a normal fucking dude. He's a hell of a lot more convincing as a dude than he ever seemed to be as a lady-bot. Advocating a group of individuals who have been, for the most part, demonized by society, and patiently sitting through a fountain of "git yer gal-dernned mangina liberal gay agenda off my viewing box, or I'll be forced to git my coon-gun!" takes A LOT of courage. More than many of us have, or will ever demonstrate. It pains me to think that so many of the procreators in our society would rather treat a courageous individual who pursues non-violent happiness as a villain, rather than a role model. Perhaps Chaz should go tanning and work on sculpting those abs. And move to New Jersey. Then, it would be fine.

Also, and I don't mean this in an offensive way (because any anti-lady douche who takes offense to being confused for a woman can go fucking cry about it on planet asshole), but I always figured Pookie was a lady person. I'm not really sure why, though. Oh well.

Oh, and a thousand thank yous to Courtney for introducing me to the term "xenophobic hate-mongering dickspackle." Count on me spreading around that one...to another person. Gotta distract from the herpes, you know?

Until this week most people didn't realise the Trashian family had a boy. Why isn't there an outrage over his casting? The family is famous for letting their daughter be a bidet.

I am filled with admiration for Chaz, for being one of the few trans people brave enough to be a public figure. He's inspiring. But this probably won't be enough to make me watch this shitty show. I'll just vote for Chaz online in order to make the rednecks cry for as long as possible.

Fail Pookie. Just fail. Freakshow hasn't been acceptable as a description for those with medical conditions/physical or psychological differences since around the time we finally jettisoned 'nigger' from acceptable discourse, and all the variants such as 'educated monkey' and 'uppity oversexed negro'

The reason why people find it hypocritical that you are both black and attacking someone in such disgusting terms is that they assume that as someone who has most likely had to deal with some sort of generic group based prejudice and has a functioning intellect they expect that you would be sensitive to the fact that some terms, and some ways of referring to people can be extremely hurtful and can also have a perniciously negative effect on society.

It's not a watertight assumption, perhaps you've never dealt with prejudice, perhaps you've never encountered group-level prejudice based on physical or medical characteristics, perhaps you have but you just really hate the physically different, deformed and disabled.

Certainly it would be bigoted to put some higher responsibility on you to realise the nature of what you're saying over some random white guy. But it doesn't mean that it's not surprising.

@antietam, I see where you are coming from with wanting to shelter your children from certain realities (and I have never been able to stomach DWTS, but now I'm dying to know what Bruno says that makes you mute the TV!). However, I agree that by age 9, your kids already know some stuff. That's based solely on remembering when I learned what sex was from some girl on the playground--I was 7. My mother was displeased. And actually, my parents sheltered us from TV sex, drugs and violence...and what I learned from that was that all of those things were "bad" and that I shouldn't talk to my parents about any of them. I still can't watch anything other than the blandest police procedurals with my parents in the room. Super uncomfortable.

That said, I was a child in a very different era than now, before we had celebretards like Kardashians parading on TV every night in the guise of "family friendly" entertainment. So I get why you would be cautious.

Anyway, sorry so rambly. Just wanted to say keep up the good parenting--I don't agree with your reservations about Chaz, but I think mindless consumption of trash is the norm these days, and I love hearing from parents who think hard about what is OK and not OK for their kids.

Ender, I liken you to one of the listeners to “The War of the Worlds” radio program in which a bunch of listeners thought that Martians had landed on earth. My fucking handle is “Pookie,” and in the history of the world when has someone with the name “Pookie” ever said something relevant? This is fucking Pajiba! The home of kooks, cranks, bi-sexuals, gays, movie critics, beauty pageant winners, aspiring writers, smart people, not so smart people, drunks, semi drunks, and all around assholes. When it gets to the point that people take what is said here too seriously, we’ve all lost. I have a brother that's gay, and he's the most sweetest and honest and loving person in the whole world as far as I'm concerned. I would not even be able to look him in the eye if I thought the way you claim to think that I think. Half the time I don’t even take what I say seriously, I like everybody here. I’ve met some really fascinating people here. Pajiba should be an oasis from the real world, for me it is. If I were allowed to tell you what I do in real life while I type whatever nonsense pops into my mind at the time, it would blow your mind. So I’m sorry for offending you or anyone else with my words. So please! Don’t take me too seriously.

Well apparently I'm out here hiding under the bed in the fucking countryside for no good reason then.

I've obviously misread your style, I realised you were a provocateur, but I also thought you wrote with a certain amount of seriousness amped up to eleven for maximum offensiveness to weakly liberal types such as myself. I shall take all of your future comments as no comment on what you really think.

“I shall take all of your future comments as no comment on what you really think.”

Posted by: Ender at September 2, 2011 11:34 AM

Great, that will put you in league with my wife because she ignores all of my attempts to express my thoughts as well.

You know, I'd be impressed if any of those who like to complain about LGBT folks and how they "undermine family values" could actually pinpoint what the fuck "family values" even means.

It's become this shining, heralded ideal to them, but nobody knows what the fuck it means. So it becomes a catch-all term to justify their fears and prejudices any which way they please.

The only "family values" I'm concerned about is parents doing their best to make sure their kids don't turn out to be ignorant, stupid, or criminals. And that they try their best to keep them healthy.

Pookie, what Ender said.

So basically you're just spouting crap to get people riled up, and don't really believe a word of it?

Why?

There are plenty of opposing opinions on hot button issues to keep the comments coming for all eternity. Do we really need a stinky fish tossed into the circle? Kinda makes me question your commitment to Pajibanism, where we get to say snarky things about people who get paid the big bucks to entertain us but refuse to do so, not people who are born a certain sex, gender, race, or disabilty, but thanks for the Pookie Spoiler, now I know where you're coming from.

I have no idea from whence all of this vitriol sprang, but, as a Montessori school teacher, I feel I must ask all of you to just cut this shit out. Shame on you for not being good verbal sports and for getting your cyber panties all in a wad about every little thing.

First, why would anyone call into question Pookie's gender or ethnicity? I am always thrilled to to be blind to a commenter's gender, ethnicity, etc. I like NOT knowing where someone is coming from because that makes his/her comments more intriguing. Sometimes I think someone is a male/female only to find out later that I was wrong. I LOVE when this happens.

As for ethnicity, well, I'm a mutt, so I can't figure out that sorta stuff because I am Scandinavian, African, English, Irish, French and Italian. Mutt.

So, Pookie, as an old-timer Pajiban, wanted to stir up the conversation a bit and take on some views in a sarcastic way... and some of you just act as if the Anti-Christ appeared in the thread. Really, it's unbecoming and anti-Pajiba of you to behave so.

My oldest sister is gay. She is the dearest friend in the world to me. I text and call her numerous times throughout the day. I tell you this because our mother passed away 17 years ago and my sister is the aunt and surrogate grandmother of my twin sons. They love her more than they love me. She stands for fun, sports, and good, clean living. They learned how to play football, soccer, baseball and any other sport from her. They consider her the most amazing grownup they have ever met. In fact, they have told me on more than one occasion, that should I ever die, she should become their mom.

Perhaps if I didn't feel the same way about her, this would bother me. But it doesn't because she is the most compelling, strong, compassionate person I have ever known. When I think about the wonderful influence of my sister on my children, "gay" is the last thing I think about, although I consider that a plus, because she knows about hardships, discrimination and living in fear of being "discovered," yet, she
is full of joy and spends most of her time trying to make life better for others, through work with Habitat for Humanity or other humanitarian projects.

My sister and I have a sense of humor. Some of you need to get one. Just because you have been discriminated against and despised doesn't mean you need to be bitter. My sister is the least-bitter, most happy-go-lucky person I know. And No, my Southern-Baptist parents were vehemently-opposed to her sexuality and made her life miserable for years, and yet, she is a joy to be around today.

It does happen. Some people are incredibly strong and not only survive persecution amd torment, but they thrive and help others.

I've noticed people here tend to get a bit shrill when certain buttons are pushed. I suspect Pooks enjoys being the pusher. He probably also enjoyed disturbing anthills as a child. It's kind of amusing watching the group mind frenzied and running amok.

Just my humble opinion, of course.

I love this article, especially for its message and the phrase "nether kraken."

I also enjoy the whole "I wish [name] well" right after the person bashed their lifestyle choice or whatever the issue is. It's like the new "NO OFFENSE, BUT."

Pushing an agenda?

How many contestants have been on DWTS so far? 50? 60? How many of them have been transgender except for Chaz Bono?

So 1 out of 60 contestants on a show constitutes "pushing an agenda" for these imbecilic conservatives?

Fuck off, conservatives and your selective "morality".

I'm curious about something. In this topic, on various sites, I occasionally see a remark that your XY chromosome is the sole "true" indicator of your gender. What chromosome do hermaphrodites have? Are some XX, and others XY? Or are they always one or the other?

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