Pajiba

You wrote, "Think back, people: before anybody ever dumped you, cheated on you, lied to you, or had enough time to earn a bad credit rating."

I'm literally weeping now, so thanks for that. Good morning, sunshine.

One of the best reviews I've read for Twilight. It IS such a bad book, but also so good (but still really really bad).
Also, your niece is a genius.

I have read all the books and will admit I found them entertaining. Very silly, at times aggravating, but still, I wanted to know how it all ended. The writing is terrible, for the reasons laid out here. My god the references to Edward's beauty. On and on and on. And a lot of it is boring and unnecessary. There's a bit in the first book where we get Bella's run down of her day after she gets home from school. 'Open email, decides not to email mum, brushes teeth, cleans up a little, starts dinner.' YAWN. There's masses of stuff that could have been edited out.

I do have issues with Bella though. Not about her being a bad role-model or what-have-you, just that she's bloody boring and basically inept at life, and I have no idea what either of them see in each other. They never really converse about anything of importance, and though she is 17 and maybe that's what 17 year olds are like, he's 109(?), he should be able to hold a conversation that doesn't involve 'You are everything to me. I will protect you. Hulk smash!'

One of the other things I hate about these books is that I can quite easily and happily talk on and on about them, as shown. Argh! Hate myself.

While the books are undeniably crappy, the amount of handwringing over the message they're sending is a bit excessive. When I was 16, my dad freaked when he caught me reading a (verboten) copy of The Virgin Suicides. I said, Dad, I'm not about to either go out and have sex or kill myself, so what's the problem?

That argument shockingly didn't go over very well.

1. Good review, even though I couldn't really care less about all the hullabaloo.

2. Your niece is AWESOME. Thank you for sharing that fabulous quote.

I have to respectfully disagree. Yes, books shouldn't babysit kids. But it's not about babysitting kids, it's about what the books inspire in kids and what message they are sending. When I was growing up, I wanted to BE Harriet the Spy or Nancy Drew. Why? Because they DID cool things. They were cool female characters that rocked it out. (Well, Nancy did have to get rescued by her boyfriend Ned sometimes and that always pissed me off.)

Having read the books, I know that Bella can't DO anything without Edward. It's reeks of anti-feminism. (Sorry, I know feminism has been a topic of debate here lately.) Girls are inundated early to care about boys and marriage and crap like that instead of being told that they have potential, they don't have to sit around and wait for a man to save them. Buffy can kick ass and so can you.

And the "it's just a book" argument doesn't fly with me. When something like a book or movie becomes such a cultural phenomenon, it stops being "just a book". It, for better for worse, because a benchmark of where the culture is at. And I don't like the idea that the culture of YA females is stuck at a boy stalking a chick equals love and that she almost withers up and dies without her boy.

All of that being said, I would never censor books. I just wish better written books with stronger female leads were lining the selves of today's youth.

Wednesday, your daughter sounds like a smart kid who's not going to end up on a stripper pole.

I'll be the first to admit that I have a special place of loathing for this crap. Carolyn, as someone who is a fan of genre fiction (multiple kinds) allow me this:

1. The whole Meyer is trashing vampire fiction rant also comes from people who weren't exactly fond of what Anne Rice and Laurell K. Hamilton has done with vampires. Creating vampires as objects of lust isn't unprecedented. It's fiction but she is talking about necrophilia.

2. Your argument that the characters are acting out their adolescent lusts isn't too off the mark. Hence the reason why teenage girls are some of the most difficult creatures to deal with. Question is, what is a 107 year old vampire doing trolling for pussy in high school?

3. The whole stalking thing. Only in movies and books does that shit work. Sneak into a guy's/woman's home and watch them sleep repeatedly, then tell them about it. That isn't the start of a beautiful relationship, it's the reason for starting civil and criminal court proceedings.

4. I'll say this: More power to Stephanie Meyer. She's been able to make something with mass-market appeal. Most of the stuff with mass-market appeal isn't the best writing or even the best storytelling. I just don't think this series will last the test of time.

I read the first one after a friend recommended it - I'd never heard of it before but was already skeptical, because really, how could Edward and Bella ever compare to Buffy and Angel. I wasn't engrossed but I thought it was alright for the first hundred pages. At that point, Bella still seemed to have a bit of a personality, she was the only one who noticed something off about Edward and was trying to figure out what the deal with him was and she also made comments about gender roles in Shakespeare. And then, there were about two hundred pages of dead space in the novel about how bedazzling Edward was, and she (Bella and Meyer) completely lost me. Also, Bella went from being an alright character who was a bit of klutz to suddenly apparently being so helpless she couldn't tie her shoes without accidentally hanging herself (I guess this goes back to the controlling issue already discussed but Edward kept making comments about how she needed him around to keep her alive even though she has somehow managed the last 17 years).
Mostly, I was just disappointed in the mythology behind the characters. There really was nothing of interest to me and no real struggle. "I was dying, I became a vampire, and I don't drink human blood." The guy has been alive for over a hundred years and has no interesting background? I loved how developed Angel became in Buffy, The Vampire Lestat was my favorite of The Vampire Chronicles for exactly that reason - the background, the moral dilemmas, the dark side. Edward has never done anything bad - he is "dark" only because he is a vampire not because of anything he has done.
So basically, I didn't think the story was even that fun though I did want to know what happened next, mainly because it was obvious that she was setting up a sequel with werewolves and I wanted to see how they would work themselves in even though it probably would have also been disappointing.

Having read the books, I know that Bella can't DO anything without Edward.

I agree, but in the last book Bella does, FINALLY, get to be something other than the damsel in distress, and save the day for once with her awesome 'I am a control freak' power. Shame it took four books to get there though.

How refreshing to read a (mostly) unbiased look at the text. Sure, yeah, they are horrible books. Really, they are. And I'm not sure how I feel about legions of teens reading them (see Anna vonB's spoiler), but at the end of the day, they are entertaining. Like a soap opera. Or daytime court TV. That fourth book is the worst book I have ever read, but I read it, cover to cover, and kind of loved reading it, because of how garbagy it was. I enjoyed that part of the experience. And yes, I appreciate it being a gateway into other reading, even though we need to direct our children to better books once they are in that gate.

I just found the book so, so, so boring it actually took me 2 weeks to get through it (I can read a book in two hours, I love reading Ill read anything even the back of cereal packets!)It was just monotonous, dull and badly written and about as erotic as merlins, saggy, left ballsack.

However that was a good review-its nice to see a fair balanced review of a book that has been denounced (at times by me) as the beginning of the apocolypse. Well done.
Also your neice? Rocks.

Great reveiw and comments.

Courtney's niece, Wednesday's daughter, and lil' Snuggie all give me hope that it's still possible to raise a healthy well-adjusted daughter of my own in this crazy world.

And what do they all have in common? Kick-ass, strong, intelligent adult female role models to help guide them.

Trying to attack books, music, or other pop-culture phenomenon is missing the point entirely. It's way to similar to the arguments I heard against letting kids read comic books, play violent video games, and listen to 'parental advisory' music. A lot of kids who did that grew up to be Pajibans (this one sure did.)

It's escapist fun. Focus on providing context and setting a good example in real life. Let fantasy be fantasy. For the most part, the kids are smarter than you give them credit for. Parents (and adult's who aren't parents) just don't understand.

Mostly, I was just disappointed in the mythology behind the characters. There really was nothing of interest to me and no real struggle. "I was dying, I became a vampire, and I don't drink human blood." The guy has been alive for over a hundred years and has no interesting background? I loved how developed Angel became in Buffy, The Vampire Lestat was my favorite of The Vampire Chronicles for exactly that reason - the background, the moral dilemmas, the dark side. Edward has never done anything bad - he is "dark" only because he is a vampire not because of anything he has done.
- JenK

That's exactly why I love Carlisle and Jasper MUCH more than stupid Edward. In fact, Edward has the most boring backstory of all the Cullens - and yet he is the most important one of them! (In the story at least. ;)) The others all had tragic backgrounds, Jasper even fought in the Civil War for crying out loud, but Edward? Was about to die of Spanish Influenza but his mother persuaded Carlisle to bite him to save his life. Big whoop.

I would have much preferred a Carlisle series but apparently SMeyer can't be bothered to do the research...

Oh, and the scene I find much more worrisome than the 'waking up covered in bruises' scene is the one in Eclipse, where Bella's snuck out to meet Jacob (basically the only friend she's got, outside the Cullens) and she returns home and is TERRIFIED of Edward's reaction. Like, physically terrified that he's going to do anything to her. HOW is that romantic?!

I'd like to add: MOST of these kids. Some (like the Pajiba Children) are much smarter than that. But since when has the smarter minority decided cultural trends?

The simple truth is that most kids, and most parents, just aren't readers. And they pick up the simple, stupid best-sellers and make them gigantic hits.

So, yeah, it's getting kids to read. But it's getting them to read shit. Do you have any idea how hard I had to fight to convince my 10th grade class that just about everything in The Da Vinci Code was complete crap?

Bleh. I just have a giant grudge against bad literature. Excuse the rants.

I heart your neice. She should be writing for Pajiba.
So even though I totally make fun of Twitards, I do it in jest only. Cue the token "some of my very best friends are Twitards!"
Anyhoo, I've said this before and I'll say it again: At least they're reading. When you're a pre-teen/teen, and the hormones are raging and you walk around starry eyed all day this is exactly the kind of thing that grabs you. And just because they're reading about flawed characters doesn't mean they will take it as bible and start living their lives like Bella or whoever the hero of the day is. (as I typed that, Hero of the Day by Metallica started playing on my radio. Weird) And if they do, that's a statement on their self-esteem and probably their parents, not a statement on the books.
I rarely enjoyed anything back when I was that age that would be considered good. I used to read fluff like Christopher Pike, and VC Andrews, and the Sweet Valley High series, and it didn't make me run out and do anything any of the characters did. And I turned out relatively ok.
One day I will actually read these books so that I can have an informed opinion. Until that day, I'll still make fun of my friends but appreciate the fact that something interested teenagers enough to pick up a book.
Nice review.

No, wait: Leave them girls alone.

And the Young Adult section is now full of more vampire shit.

There is a lot of it about (and angels are big now it seems), but it's not hugely different to when I was a teen, except there's more focus on the market. I had a choice of Point Horror/Pike or Sweet Valley High/melodramatic teen angst. I went the 'horror' route, and I haven't spent my adult life reading crap. Well, not all crap, but there's still a place for it too.

I dunno, what should kids be reading? Whatever it is, I probably wasn't back then.

Carrie, stick to the memories. I don't dare pick up any of those novels now because I know it'll ruin the nostalgia for me.
Figgy, I totally get your point, believe me, I do. I just think it's relatively harmless. Yeah I used to read the crap, but before that I looooooooved Nancy Drew, too-not the newer Nancy, the one from the 60's in the old hard covers in my local library.
I get what you're saying. I just don't think it's going to be the end of the civilization.
Facebook will take that honor.

figgy

You don't know this:

"These kids won't move over to reading Charles Dickens or Neil Gaiman, people. These are the kids that will grow up to give Dan Brown his next big hit."

And even if they don't read Charles Dickens, so what? I mean, there are tons of adults who don't read, period. They have never gotten to know the joy of a good story or just losing yourself in a book, no matter how crappy other people may think that book is.

I dislike the elitism. I've read tons of classics and they are THE SHIT. I've also read tons of trash and sometimes trash is good, sometimes my brain needs trash. I read the Sookie Stackhouse series, all the Twilight books, even Stephen King's later shit. (Ug.) I know people who read nothing BUT trash and I really don't care. There's room for all of us here and for all of us in the Borders store.

Honestly, not many people read Charles Dickens or Tolstoy or Orwell once they aren't being forced to in school. Even then, lots of times they fake it.

I don't know, I guess I don't see what the big deal is.

Oh and I want to be Yossarian when I grow up.

Raise your kids right and it doesn't matter what they read. One book isn't going to destroy what you raised them with. Several books aren't going to do that. A movie isn't going to destroy their values.

And reading what they read, watching what they watch and talking about all of it is pretty important. Little Snuggie was entertained by all four Twilight books, but will tell you in a hot second she thinks Bella is a huge idjit who needs more self-confidence, LOL. We talked about that for quite a while, along with how nasty some of the characters acted in the Clique series of books.

Hahaha, thank you for the quote Aunt Patty. Since I’ve received some positive feedback on my first quote I think I should give some more input. Honestly, like you said, I think that the least believable part of the whole book was not the existence of werewolves or vampires (and not to mention their special talents), but the fact that someone as apparently “perfect” as Edward would fall in love with someone so mind numbingly BORING as Bella. It has already been established that Stephanie Meyer’s writing needs improvement, especially when you take into consideration that throughout four novels she couldn’t manage to produce any character development for her protagonist. I don’t think people need to worry about teenage girls using Bella as a role model, because what desirable trait (by anyone’s standards) does she actually exemplify? Nothing ever happens to her unless trips in the woods and accidentally runs into some supernatural creature! Girls who try to follow Bella's example will simply end up bored to tears in some rainy-ass part of Washington waiting for a sparkly super vamp to show up.

Also, I think people need to remember that adolescents aren’t just some clan of brainwashed market clones. I read the first Twilight book before the big hype really began. I bought it, read it, and when I finished it I put the book down and looked for something else to read. I didn’t regard the book as some kind of bible, nor did I idealize Bella as a paragon of woman kind. I think it’s quite clear that Twilight isn’t about to be written into English class curriculums, it’s just a story that will pass on like any other pop culture fad. Though the Cullens may never die, vampires will eventually fade from the pop culture scene just like disco and pet rocks.

Well I was just using Dickens as a random example of 'good' literature. I don't even like Dickens that much. But...thing is that I really hate that 'at least kids are reading' thing. Because they're reading crap, making it popular, and the results just permeate everything (that I love): tv, movies, etc. And it bugs the hell out of me because good movies, good books, good TV gets ignored and everything just stays the same. I know I'm screaming into the wind here, but, well I tend to do that.

And I also love trash, sometimes. I thought the Twilight movie was hilarious. But (bleh this makes me sound like a snob and I probably am) I know the difference.

I shouldn't care. People like what they like, etc. But it's kind of the same reason why I rail against stuff like Michael Bay's: it's not just forgettable, disposable trash. The dirt gets everywhere. The system's not gonna change and that bugs me. I know it's not the end of the world, but...

I do need to calm down. I know that. These things come and go and are easily forgotten. It's just a pet peeve, I guess!

Ah, Judy Blume. Remember “Forever”? It was banned from our school library because of the theme (gasp – sex!). Naturally, that just made all of us run out that much faster and buy the thing, then hide it from our parents.
Guess what? I had sex a few years later. Maybe I should sue her for directly influencing my prepubescent mind and thus circuitously causing my hymen to rupture.
Then again, I also read “Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing” but have yet to swallow a turtle.

There's a distinct difference between reading 'crap' and reading shit that perpetuates low self-esteem and this entire 'princess' mentality bullshit that's currently en vogue.

Yeah, THAT. I know it's not all the fault of Twilight (shit, girls were acting like that when I was 10), but I think it adds fuel to the fire. And no, not all girls are like that, but I always felt like they were in the majority. I taught 7th-10th grade and I saw it everywhere. The girls who acted all helpless and brainless (ie: like Bella Swann) got the boys and the attention. The smart girls were either too smart for that OR they decided to start changing, dumbing themselves down, they stopped reading. And they'll grow up and perpetuate this dumb woman stereotype and we'll never get anything done right. And again, NOT ALL GIRLS are like that, and there's plenty of smart ones, but they're not the ones who grow up to dictate where our culture is going. The dumb majority does.

It's just this vicious cycle that's always been around, and Twilight isn't helping. It just makes me sad.

OK I'll stop after this, I swear:

I think I might be so doomy about this because I spend way too much time reading about Twilight related stuff, and my drama-prone brain is exaggerating this whole thing. Ah, the internet. I know I'm making some things into bigger deals than they really are, but that doesn't mean some of these things aren't problematic.

I came to the series totally by accident only a few months before the last book came out. I hadn't heard anything about the series, was walking through B&N, saw an interesting cover, bought first book. Read it, liked the story, picked up second and third book. Waited a month, bought last book.

In between buying first book and last I had three kittens die in my arms [each one two days apart (fading kitten syndrome)] and my dad dying alone. (The kittens and dad all happened within an 8-day period.)

Reading the books kept my rapidly unraveling mind off the death for a little while.

Shonda, I'm sorry to hear about your dad (and the kittens too). If reading books helped you get through those horrible days, no one would or should begrudge you what you read. We all have our ways of escaping.

Well done review, Courtney. I think I echo a lot of the sentiments already expressed here but I view this series mostly as a guilty pleasure. Is it high quality? Definitely not. Entertaining? Yes (at least I think so). I can definitely understand the concerns about Bella's submissiveness to Edward and the frenzy the series has caused, but like many have pointed out, the stupid people and the needy people, etc, who latch onto this already existed. A well-adjusted smart young girl isn't going to turn into a blithering submissive moron just because she read this.

I read a lot of different things when I was younger. One of my favorite books is Lord of the Flies, but I also enjoyed the heck out of Christopher Pike, R.L. Stine and others. Heck, I still read some books that aren't exactly high-brow (the Sookie Stackhouse series, Janet Evanovich). Sometimes it's nice to just read something fun and light. Not to defend these books as good, necessarily, just to say that I don't think they're going to bring on the end of the world.

The movies are pretty terrible, although I did find the Rifftrax version with Mike Nelson's voiceover to be downright hilarious. Also, fun and random story. My coworker and good friend loves this stuff (which was unexpected because I think she's only about 4% girly) and she wanted to go see New Moon on opening night at midnight, which we did. And then she proceeded to comment in her normal speaking voice (read: Italian and loud) on the terrible things going on in the movie. I was fairly certain we were gonna get shivved by a bunch of 12 year olds outside the theater.

Ha, that was a great review.

Twilight generally just make me glad I have sons and not daughters.

I read them, actually enjoyed them on some level, but on another level was appalled by the crappy writing and the stalking and downright abusive stuff. I read both real literature and fluff, depending on my mood. I have lately toned down my anti-Twilight talk. Yesterday a friend on a forum posted a picture of whats-his-face-the-wolf-kid and talked about having raunchy dreams about him. I wanted to post an "ew" both to the idea of raunching it up with that ugly kids and an "ew" that she had seen New Moon. But I refrained and that's probably better for both of us. I'm not a total bitch.

The Niece rocks, though.

Y'all are getting causes mixed up with symptoms here. The book is NOT the problem.

Again, if a boy or girl hasn't been raised right (I'll leave it that vague for the sake of keeping this from being a dissertation, ok?) THAT is their bigger problem. And THOSE are the kids who CAN be unduly influenced by stupid crap. (Not will be, can be.)

A lot of you figured out that Bella is a weak, badly developed character who should never be held up as an example for any young woman---what in the world makes you think a 15 year old girl can't draw the same conclusion? Does their brain not work right yet or something?

Raise them right and they can read completely radical diabolical subversive stuff and it's not going to cause them to change who they are or how they act!

Kat I teach that demographic, too. For a long time I taught eighth graders who read, on average, on a third grade reading level. We weren't reading fluffy stuff crap in my CURRICULUM, but when we went to the library so they could check out whatever they wanted, I did NOT turn up my nose at their selections. Half the time, I was thrilled they checked something out. Then it languished in their locker for two weeks, unless I had SSR during class and we talked about what we were reading for pleasure. I had to create a "reading is fun" culture in addition to teaching the dadblamed curriculum or nothing I did would have any effect on them.

So when we went to the library, I said ok to all the nonfiction books on wolves, low-riders, cocaine, gangs, teen pregnancy, and Australia that the boys seemed to be drawn to. I hip-hip-hurrahed the girl who suddenly started reading Lurlene McDaniel and had never so much as picked up a book voluntarily in her life. I asked them what they thought of it. Got excited about it. THEN, later, I'd gently push them onto other things. The boy who checked out every damn book in the library on wolves? I "casually" introduced him to Will Hobbes and Gary Paulsen before Christmas break. It worked! He devoured those things, and he never touched novels.

The girl who was always upset about some real or perceived injustice toward her or her friends? Sharon G. Flake, baby. Fairly easy reading, but PERFECT to get her interested in reading more.

Let me just plug something right here: Kelly Gallagher and his book Readicide. He teaches 9th grade English in a title I school in California and has some brilliant ideas for reaching the non-reading teenagers. I can assure you he doesn't flip out over the "crap" level of their reading at first. He just guides, prods, gets them excited, hands them more, strings them along...sort of like leaving a trail of candy to the really good stuff.

I -am- talking about whole class reading. I don't give a flying frack what they read in their downtime. I know which kids read on their own and which kids read only because they have self-selected reading, but I like to TRY and give my kids input in the novels we read as a class. But the ones who *refuse* to read anything that's not bollocks whine and bitch because the ones in the curriculum are NOT one of the three socially acceptable series.

Also, Snuggiepants, I'm working with 5th graders, OK? Not middle school kids. Elementary. Elementary kids are the ones who read Twilight in the schools I've worked in. I realize its different in your area, but I've never seen a middle schooler with a Twilight book, much less a middle school twi-hard. This goes for high school too. None of my high school students would *glance* at a Twilight book, because in no way is Bella representative of their lives.

And I don't turn up my nose at their library books, because who gives a damn? They need to enjoy reading. But they also need to pick stuff at LEAST at grade level if its for class, and they need to choose one of the three options I give them if its for core.

Ok if elementary kids are reading Twilight where you are, then we are most assuredly NOT teaching the same demographic. No, I don't see most high schoolers reading it, but middle schoolers here were eating the series up about two years ago. And fifth grade is NOT the Twilight demographic, I can tell you that.

It seems a bit odd to hear about elementary-aged "Twi-hards." I would think the series would have a bit too much mature material matter (not the reading level, but the subject) for elementary aged kids.

I guess, though, I'm back to wondering why "The Lighting Thief" couldn't be a whole class book. School Library Journal rates it as "grades 5-9" and while it sounds as if your kids are light years ahead of where mine were, it's at least on grade level for them. I mean, if you just hate the contemporary stuff, or your district only allows classics for whole class reading, that's one thing. But it seems as if you could do much worse than "The Lightning Thief" for a whole class, on grade level, contemporary selection.

"The Outsiders" is something we usually read in seventh grade around here. I don't know, mebbe your in one of them smrt states. LOL.

Snuggie is exactly right.

"No one ever went broke ..." etc.

Amen, Snuggie.

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