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Feministing vs. Jezebel

Feministing and Jezebel Blog Reviews / Dustin Rowles

Blog Reviews | October 2, 2008 | Comments (99)


Blog(s): Jezebel & Feministing

Topic: Women’s Issues

Review: I realize it’s not exactly fair to compare Feministing to Jezebel — they’re not exactly apples and oranges, but they’re certainly not the same variety of apple, either. Nevertheless, they are the two most high-profile female-centered blogs on the Internet, so I’m going to compare them anyway.

In terms of content and tone, the difference between the blogs is significant. Feministing is outstanding if your aim is to read about feminist issues, while Jezebel is (mostly) an outstanding blog if you want to read about pop culture from a feminist perspective. Both blogs can be brilliant — they contain some of the most insightful, well-written content on the Internet.

From a feminist angle, Feministing gets it most right. Fronted by Jessica Valenti, Feministing gives feminism some sex appeal without ever betraying a core message of empowerment. You can get a fairly decent idea of the angle Feministing takes by exploring the controversy that erupted between Valenti and legal blogger Ann Althouse, after Valenti dressed provocatively (at least according to Althouse) when she and some other bloggers posed with Bill Clinton during a luncheon. It was a fairly innocuous pose, but Valenti’s top revealed that (gasp!) she had breasts, which is apparently something you don’t want to advertise if you’re a feminist. Or, at least that’s the argument Althouse tried to make. Althouse wrongheadedly (in my opinion) insinuated that feminism and public displays of female sexuality are mutually exclusive (totally chauvinistic aside: Althouse ain’t a looker). Feministing thinks otherwise: Tits, ass, and sex are all part of womens’ lives, and as such, belong front and center on a blog about feminism, where the issues revolve around sex-specific topics, like reproductive rights, violence against women, and gender equality. By injecting sexual candor and a scintilla of humor, Feministing makes feminist issues palatable for those who might otherwise be turned off by the more radical approach of a blog like Majikthise (another favorite of mine). In short, Feministing is the best blog on the Internet when it comes to presenting and discussing feminist issues, though it does occasionally lack a hard edge, which is perhaps by design — it’s unlikely to alienate women who are interested in women’s issues, but don’t necessarily self-identify as feminists.

My one reservation with regard to Feministing is a minor quibble, and it’s probably an unfair one at that, coming from my white male point of view, but it’s this: As a site devoted exclusively to feminist issues, I occasionally find that they strain to detect sexism in places where it may not necessarily exist (an accusation that’s been leveled at me from time to time) for the sake of adding material. When you’re life revolves around feminism, it’s easy to get myopic about it. Moreover, when something really gets stuck in their craw, the writers can occasionally (though arguably justifiably) lose their sense of humor.

That’s not the case with Jezebel. The feminist writers over on Jezebel have the opposite tendency: To sacrifice their message for the sake of a good quip. It’s that fault, however, that makes Jezebel one of the most entertaining blogs on the Internet, it’s affiliation with Gawker notwithstanding. It also owes a debt to Femisting — Jezebel took the sexual attitude of Femisting and broadened the appeal by adding a celebrity gossip element and a lot of fluffery. Jezebel boasts it’s the kind of “women’s magazine that women would want to read,” and it’s a fair assessment: They tackle the same topics you’d find in an average issue of Redbook or Cosmo, but they offer substantive, thoughtful discussion, whereas your typical women’s mag freelancer seems to be aiming to fill a word count. They do, however, cover a lot of gossipy stuff (This Week in Tabloids), but they do it with that distinctive Gawker style (and their Snap Judgments are killer).

That Gawker sense of humor, however, may be Jezebel’s biggest drawback — it was introduced as an alternative to the Gawker brand, a more welcoming site than their brother blogs. And while it certainly is less mean-spirited, there is often a level of droll nastiness in its tone. I didn’t detect it, really, until I watched the talk show appearance of two of their writers, who showed up drunk (Chez wrote extensively about it), and their lack of professionalism and dismissiveness of feminist issues was … unsettling (I stopped reading it for a few weeks after that, but ultimately got sucked back in). They sounded like a couple of drunken frat boys talking about chicks, and since then, I’ve been unable to separate that attitude from the blog (even after one of the women was conveniently promoted to Gawker.com). I was also a little put off by their fascist guide for commenters, but on a blog devoted to women’s issues, it was probably necessary (both Jezebel and Femisting have a fairly hostile relationship with their trolls. They’re not as cuddly as ours, unfortunately).

The dismissive attitude and occasional arrogance notwithstanding, it’s a fantastic blog. In their gossip coverage, they manage to eviscerate celebrities without resorting to misogyny, and their political coverage is smart, biting, and rarely self-serious. Indeed, I can’t recommend either Jezebel or Feministing enough, though neither, I believe, strike the blend of substance and humor that Rachel Maddow has perfected after only two weeks on the air.

Sample Post(s):

Feministing:

Last Friday, a speaker from the Republican party came to my high school and gave a speech on why he worked for the Republican party and what his daily schedule consisted of during an election year. After he gave the speech, the audience was allowed to ask questions. I raised my hand knowing he was sexist, because before the Q&A session he said, “now girls will need to speak louder, because I have trouble hearing girls”. However, when I raised my hand he told me “I will answer your question in a minute young sir” and answered the boy with the Sarah Palin button’s question first. When he got back to me, he continued to call me “young sir” until I told him “actually I am a woman”. The look on his face was priceless! But I was hurt by his comments.(the entire school saw this conversation) I do not want to be called “sir” until I get knighted!
I am proud to be a woman even if I don’t look “stereotypically female” and comments like that are a slap in the face. I hate it when people call my gender into question! Yes, I could conform, but that is not me either! I am a woman, a woman that doesn’t wear makeup or pluck her eyebrows or wear “girly” clothes, but I still LOVE the fact that I am female!
I guess my main question is, what is the best way to remain calm when someone calls your gender into question when you don’t want it to be called into question?

Jezebel:

Yesterday’s episode of Tyra was about “barsexuals,” straight women who kiss other women in bars for “fun and attention.” I’ve always been put off by women who put on such displays for attention rather than for their own pleasure. The annoying thing was that the women on Tyra’s couch explained that they make out with other females for attention or free drinks, but are offended and disgusted that guys admit to buying them drinks because they want to have sex with them. Like Tyra said, “Are you doing this so they will respect your mind and your intellect?” Mostly, I’m just annoyed that these ladies made me agree with Tyra on anything regarding women’s sexuality.

Rating(s): Femilicious.


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Comments

Yes, yes, yes, Yes, YES!!!

*calms down, lights cigarette*

These blog reviews do me good, keep 'em coming, cuz their isn't anybody else scratching this itch for me.

Posted by: thaf at October 2, 2008 3:21 PM

Tits, ass, and sex are all part of womens' lives

As a woman, I don't think about my breasts and ass at all. I leave that to the boys.

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 3:25 PM

Sofia, as always, your candor is...deep breath... refreshing.

Posted by: Admin11 at October 2, 2008 3:40 PM

Done and Done, Sofia

Posted by: Optimus Rhyme at October 2, 2008 3:42 PM

I occasionally find that they strain to detect sexism in places where it may not necessarily exist

I couldn't agree more. Feministing is one of my favorite blogs, but they do occasionally seem to be fighting ghosts.

Sofia, I spend quite a bit of time thinking about my t & a. Although, I think about other people's t & a all the time too. I guess I'm just filthy.

Posted by: Marra at October 2, 2008 3:44 PM

Damn, beaten to it.
But I'll take this extra post to thank Dustin for this new column. All these new blogs to check out plus some handy Pajiban wit when describing them to others. You Pajoibs just keep bringing the awesome and I know I'll stick around.

Posted by: Optimus Rhyme at October 2, 2008 3:45 PM

"Tits, ass, and sex are all part of womens' lives"

No, tits, ass, and sex are all part of my husband's life. I just happen to be attached to them. How do I know? When I go on vacation by myself, he always asks me to leave those bits home for him to enjoy by himself.

Posted by: BWeaves at October 2, 2008 3:46 PM

No, tits, ass, and sex are all part of my husband's life. I just happen to be attached to them. How do I know? When I go on vacation by myself, he always asks me to leave those bits home for him to enjoy by himself.

Posted by: BWeaves

I'm sure he saw Wanda Syke's bit about the portable pussy. (youtube)

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 3:59 PM

Normally I don't think about my tits and ass...but there's always some random dude on the street to remind me. Thanks guys!

Posted by: Ginger at October 2, 2008 4:01 PM

Me: As a woman, I don't think about my breasts and ass at all. I leave that to the boys.

Optimus Rhyme: Done and Done, Sofia

I've done my share of "thinking" myself, my darling Optimus. I hope you're not threatened by other people's expectations on you.

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 4:02 PM

Many people did not understand Alec Baldwin's rant to his daughter; many people thought he had no right to say what he did. I, on the other hand understood fully where he was coming from, in my patriarchal system Alec words were fully appreciated. Very rarely will I come down on a bitches' ass if I see her doing the right thing as it relates to our relationship. Most of the men that I have met here in pajibaville were raised in a matriarchal system, which teaches them to kiss a women's ass, bring her gifts to buy her love, and to tell her he likes the smell of her farts. To be continued...

Posted by: Pookie at October 2, 2008 4:02 PM

The Feministing sample reminded me of a problem I had in high school. I had really short hair and a flat chest, wore little makeup and wore generally gender-neutral clothes and people thought I was a boy. It happened all the time. In fact, once, in the grocery store with my best girlfriend, the checker scolded me for letting my friend carry a case of soda. Another time at a football game, some girl from the opposing team's school tried to pick up on me, like, hardcore. Situations like this occurred DAILY.

I bitched about it to my mom quite a bit until one day she said, "Honey, you dolook like a boy; strangers aren't trying to offend you on purpose." She was right, and I learned not to be so sensitive about it.

When I finally grew some boobies in my twenties, I actually grew my hair out to take the attention away from them because I was so unused to it. I'm dead sexy now.

Posted by: Mella at October 2, 2008 4:09 PM

As a woman, I don't think about my breasts and ass at all. I leave that to the boys.

Only to the boys, Sofia? Tsk, tsk. That's too bad.

I think about my breasts on occasion. (I try not to think about my ass at this point. It ain't gettin' any narrower, if you catch my drift.) They're all part of me, though, so I think about them insofar as I think about myself. I'm not really explaining myself particularly eloquently right now, am I? I like sweaters in the winter because they cling to my shape and I look nice. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to look nice; it is not mutually exclusive of feminism. By the same token, I am a human being, and wish to be respected as such, but people are always going to look at women breast-first. Once they've got it out of their system, though, I wow 'em with my sparkling personality and superior intellect, and then they like me all the more. (Jesus, I have to do something to distract everyone from how badly written this comment is...)

Also, I think about them in the shower. Covered in soap, all slippery and wet...

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 2, 2008 4:12 PM

As a woman, I don't think about my breasts and ass at all. I leave that to the boys.

The lack of a proper photo spread isn't exactly helping with that duty, Sof. Marra, there's nothing wrong with filthy, hold your chin high...now thrust your hip just like that...hold it (click)...now stick your chest out a bit (click), and now shake your hair loose and lift your arms a bit (click)...now start to move like you're feeling the rhythm of a tribal beat! (click click click)
Ginger, on behalf of guys everywhere, you're welcome.

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 2, 2008 4:13 PM

Dammit Beaverplatz, I was with you up until that last line! Now I've got to go dry my keyboard!

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 2, 2008 4:15 PM

Jesus, I have to do something to distract everyone from how badly written this comment is...

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz

Google "Chile" and learn some basic information about it so you can throw in little bits of information every now and then for appearances sake. It's worked for me.

(I'm actually from Wyoming and my name is Mona, but sshhh!)

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 4:18 PM

but people are always going to look at women breast-first.

Says you.

Posted by: Jay at October 2, 2008 4:20 PM

Ooh...another welcome recommendation. I only started reading Jezebel because of that post in Chez's blog (which I thought was dead on), and while I was also appalled at the two writers I stayed around because, for the most part, it is a really fantastic blog; smart and witty and sometimes awesomely cutting. I love their Cover Lies feature.

Never read Feministing, but I'll totally be checking it out.

Posted by: figgy at October 2, 2008 4:22 PM

Also, I think about them in the shower. Covered in soap, all slippery and wet...

Ha ha ha! Please tell me I'm not the only one who enjoys the girls in that state. Breasts are best when used as a Slip n Slide.

Posted by: Julie at October 2, 2008 4:23 PM

I have a great rack.
I imagine that I don't think about it nearly as much as the males around me, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't proud of it.

I can't refer to myself as having tits, though. Tits are for farm animals. I have breasts thank you very much.

I read Jezebel often. The right amount of reporting on serious issues and total fluff to get me through the long slow workday. However the bloggers have a tendency to forget that they speak for themselves, not all women and get a little defensive when called on in the comments.

Posted by: Jennifer at October 2, 2008 4:24 PM

SNAP JUDGMENT:

Hmmm...Feministing could really use a better design. Very messy.

Posted by: figgy at October 2, 2008 4:25 PM

Feministing is a favorite of mine as well. Jessica Valenti's appearance on the Colbert Report last year was a classic.

Odds that this comment thread would turn towards the naughty bits of our Fejibans? Better than even money, and greatly appreciated.

Posted by: branded at October 2, 2008 4:25 PM

Apologies, Jay, that was a generalization. Not everybody does it, of course, and I don't assume every person that I start an interaction with will. I don't actually hold it against anyone who does, either.

good idea, Sofia... but do I need to learn a second language? I'm not so good with languages...

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 2, 2008 4:26 PM

good idea, Sofia... but do I need to learn a second language? I'm not so good with languages...

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz

No, just copy and paste this inverted exclamation/interrogation marks ¡¿¡¿¡¿¡¿ and randomly include them in sentences. Everyone will think your accent is worse than Charo's.

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 4:32 PM

Jennifer? Farm animals have teats. I (and I guess, you) have tits/boobs/breasts/bazooms/dirty pillows/what have you.

Posted by: SavageCats at October 2, 2008 4:41 PM

I think about my tits all the time. Actually, I'm kinda hyper-aware of them (Jennifer - I think it only sounds right as 'tits' if they're small). I'm a bit anti-bra - I like letting 'em bounce, and I walk a lot, so there's always kinda that *bounce *bounce *bounce in the back of my mind on my way to work. And I generally prefer to lounge around my apartment topless to give them even more freedom. It's really silly to me that we think of breasts as being for men's enjoyment when women can get a helluva lot of pleasure out of those particular body parts. Two of my guy friends once apologized to me 'cause they'd made a toast "to boobs" in front of me, to which I responded "to boobs. I can enjoy them more than you ever will."

Posted by: s. pisaster at October 2, 2008 4:43 PM

However the bloggers (at Jezebel) have a tendency to forget that they speak for themselves, not all women, and get a little defensive when called on in the comments.

I couldn't agree more with you,Jennifer. Those women are as defensive (if not more) as Carrie Bradshaw. If they don't watch it pretty soon they'll start every blog entry with "We're aware, as smart, independent, strong, stylish, indifferent, biased single women, that...." Fuck that.

Although, they must be under the impression that people who read their site think exactly like them, which is true to some extent. But after watching the Moe/Tracie incident and realizing they don't think of themselves as role models or leaders, it makes me think that some of them are not aware of the responsibility they have. They made it seem as if Jezebel is just a soapbox and they can blog and blog about stuff and it won't have any repercussions, and if it does, they're not to blame.

Jezebel is read by thousands of women - if not millions - and they have to learn that, from time to time, some readers won't agree with them. Feminism is larger than their site, not the other way around.

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 4:48 PM

"to boobs. I can enjoy them more than you ever will."

Must...not..degenerate..into..filth....

May I point out, to those ladies with AdBlock, that there is this site that lets you do amateur online stripping for others to see?

Not that I am some male pig only interested in seeing the hills and valleys. Just saying, since someone went through all the trouble of putting it up here and all...

I do check out both sites from time to time; and like Dustin, I was a bit dismayed from the whole Jezebel TV incident. But they both show a bit of perspective I don't normally get.*

*Even though there is an all-girls school next door where we are free to participate in classes, certain women's studies professors refuse to allow males in their courses. And no one with a wang would dare be caught without some female accompaniment and only during daylight hours, otherwise the campus snipers would have too clear a shot.

Posted by: Vermillion at October 2, 2008 5:00 PM

"I think I would know Nora's fart anywhere. I think I could pick hers out in a roomful of farting women." --James Joyce

See that, Pookie? From one of the literary GREATS. That's tradition, that is.

Posted by: Mac at October 2, 2008 5:28 PM

I read Jezebel.com daily but admit they have a deep weakness in their dealings with comments....It is not just how they deal with trolls but with anyone who disagrees with the consensus of the writer. They even go as far as to highlight the 'bad comments' and mock them. And yes, people can be inane in their internet commenting but website commenting is by nature non-formal...and should not be taken very seriously or personally.

Posted by: Haystacks at October 2, 2008 5:33 PM

I was excited to see this post on my two fave daily reads! Good job, Dustin - you've pretty much nailed it on the head.. or the breast.. whatever. I love both of these sites!

Posted by: armpitofla at October 2, 2008 5:34 PM

Savagecats, you forgot sweater kittens.

Vermillion, I've been curious about those ads! Part of me is disgusted, but then again, if we don't click on the ads, our Pajiba overlords don't get bank...so really, we'd be stripping for a cause.

And lordhelmet, I'm all for porn, but I that little photo shoot better be the tasteful playboy variety, not the raunchy kind that's all stripper poles and beaver shots...

Gorram it, now I'm thinking about Anna's soapy, slippery boobies again.

Posted by: Marra at October 2, 2008 5:37 PM

Woohoo, breasts! Clean, fresh, lilac-scented bosoms! You know who's got them? Me, people--ME!

*ahem* Sorry 'bout that. After several weeks of looking and feeling downright asexual, I just got home from my last day of field work (for the foreseeable future), shucked off my chest waders, and had a bitchingly glorious long, hot shower.

Just had to share that with you all.

As you were....

PS: lordhelmet, I'm now ready for my photo shoot.

Posted by: meaux at October 2, 2008 5:38 PM

Many people did not understand Alec Baldwin's rant to his daughter... To be continued...

Posted by: Pookie at October 2, 2008 4:02 PM

Don't leave me hanging, Pookie! What the heck is your point? As occasionally happens to me, I find myself (possibly) agreeing with your substance if not your style. So please do share the substance.

Since 2001 I've been embroiled in a nasty divorce from an ice queen of the highest order. She seems to live for court, where she can have a proxy do her dirty work for her and she can keep feeling sainted. In seven years we have not gone longer than six months without appearing in front of a judge. There are days where I wish she was simply batshit crazy like Kim Basinger, because then some of her mean and dispassionate actions might be easier to tolerate. As it is, when a seemingly rational person continually beats you about the head and shoulders with every available club and cudgel it becomes incredibly difficult to maintain objectivity...especially when the kids, very naturally, begin to mimic the behavior that is modeled for them. So in at least that small, abstract way I sympathize with Alec Baldwin.

I don't know shit about the matriarchy and the patriarchy, Pooks, and I suspect that what you finally grace us with will be a screed involving bitches and ho's -- but given your lead I'm curious nevertheless. What have you got?

Posted by: Che Grovera at October 2, 2008 5:46 PM

Ugh, Jezebel. They can dish it out, but they can't take it. The posts are very interesting, but if you so much as question anything any of the writers say or even go against the prevailing sentiment in a comment thread, you are booted off, with no explanation whatsoever. Draconian, to say the least.

Posted by: Sunshine at October 2, 2008 6:14 PM

Ok, I HAVE to get in on the T&A discussion.

Me and my friends talk about our assets a lot of the time. Like... probably more than we should. For example, my (now married) ex-roommate and I talked about my breasts a ton because she was kind of jealous of them (she's a card-carrying member of the Itty Bitty Titty Committee, but has an awesome bum) so she named my breasts. We also named her boobies, in case you're keeping score.

But, her butt (see what I did there) is so cute that while she was talking about her butt with a female friend while walking to the cafeteria one day the friend walked into a poll because she was checking out my roomie's butt.

We all talk about bras and panties and how we look in said articles of clothing.

But we do it in a completely _non-sexual_ way. It's almost like "shop talk" for us. So while we talk about our lovely bits enough, we've never had a pillow fight in a nightie either. We could never get the scheduling right.

And for the record I do feel like "tits" is a named bestowed upon the breasts of those less-endowed, so I call mine Tatanies.

You guys make me want to share WAY too much.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 6:30 PM

Marra, meaux, not only are you gals class acts, but you're also good sports. I'll have Shadows contact you with dates, times, locations, props, and outfits for the ever-growing and increasingly popular Ladies of Pajiba fundraising calendar. Kayanne, Beaverplatz, Sofia, you're the types of ladies that make me love women so much - you're confident, comfortable in your own skins and with your sexuality, and not afraid to have a little fun without getting all uptight about things. By all means, keep oversharing!

This is turning into like the best day ever!

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 2, 2008 6:40 PM

This is turning into like the best day ever!

Posted by: lordhelmet

Your best day ever just has women talking about their breasts?

Dude, creativity.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 6:42 PM

Well, that's just a start. I didn't say that's all that the best day would have - I mean, I've gotta start somewhere. You're...right, though, in some ways I'm not very creative. *slinks away in shame*

I'll just be over here.

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 2, 2008 6:47 PM

For the sake of clarity:
They're just not the first thing I'd ogle.

Fortunately for me I have a great interest in hair, eyes, lips, glasses, so I am looking you in the face if you're facing me.

See what I get away with?

Posted by: Jay at October 2, 2008 6:58 PM

*slinks away in shame*

I'll just be over here

Posted by: lordhelmet

Awww now I feel like a bitch.

Hugs!

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 7:06 PM

Jay, while I do enjoy the soft-porn of Pajiba, it's nice to see a gentleman in the mix.

Posted by: Cindy at October 2, 2008 7:43 PM

Fortunately for me I have a great interest in hair, eyes, lips, glasses,[...]

Hey! I have hair, eyes,lips, and glasses!

Oooh, meaux, you must be so happy right now! There is nothing like a long hot shower after days with poor/no bathing facilities. A long hot shower with slippery soap!

Heh, Kayanne, I have the same friend! I mean, my sisters and I are all pretty busty and curvy, and we have a friend who's not, but she's all tall and slim and beautiful and has great legs. (She has great boobs too, just not big ones.) We all joke about that all the time. Oh, and Jay would love her glasses, I think. She's so pretty.

Oh, lordhelmet, you are just the sweetest thing. Don't worry, heaven knows I love to overshare!!

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 2, 2008 7:53 PM

Well I thank you. My mind's plenty dirty, I'm just nice and repressed. Nevertheless it's true, just the other day I said to my friend at work "there was some great short hair in here a little while ago", also knowing I was ribbing her as she doesn't like short hair at all. But then said tonsorial woman reappeared and my friend quickly maneuvered to have me be the person who could best help, as she's made it her job to get me hooked up, despite my constant efforts to undermine said quest.

I will stare at your hips though, so it's good that they're so far from eye level there's no way to even pretend like you're getting away with glancing (though a lot of us know it's best to just assume she knows perfectly well you're looking, wherever it is, and proceed from that perspective).

Now, that said....someone puts cleavage out there, I am going to see it. It's there, and not unattractive most of the time. I won't disagree with certain views on soap and water either.

But do ya know what's maddening? Since we're talking about fixation stuff. Sharing a bed with someone you're not sure you're allowed to touch (even though I've been asked later "why didn't you do anything?"), who's on their side, and waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that thing the hip does when the knee bends, rising up and over down to the thigh. That shit's crazy. How do you do that?

Posted by: Jay at October 2, 2008 8:05 PM

Jay I also have all of those qualities. And I rock them all.

Ms. Beaverplatz
My friend is also gorgeous! Not only is she like, one of the most beautiful people ever, she's also amazingly sweet. Her hubby is handsome and nice, too. The will have the most adorable angelic children ever (in a few years).

Big boobs, small boobs, cute butt, no butt, whatever- pretty is pretty.

I think really what it comes down to, is just being proud of yourself and the body you've been blessed with. Walking with confidence gets me more head turns than anything else. I don't ever feel objectified, because I'm proud of myself, end of story.

And every lady should feel proud of how lovely she is.

Yay ladies!

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 8:11 PM

I must admit I used to discuss my T&A a lot. I didn't (and still don't) like my ass, and my breasts are mostly discussed by others, including close friends and family (our gift is genetic.)

My best friend once went on and on about how beautiful my breasts were, and I debated on whether I should tell her I'd failed the gravity test. For those of you who are not familiar with this test, it involves putting a pencil under your breast. If it stays there, then you have droopy tits. If it falls, you're one perky fatherfucker. I failed the test on my right breast and passed it on my left one, which made the fact that I have an asymetric rack even clearer.

I ended up telling my friend, and she was quiet for a while, but then said "but they're still pretty awesome!" No matter what I said, in her mind my breasts would always be better than hers, and to me hers would always be better than mine (I'd kill to be able to go without a bra).

So, once again, I tell you I don't really think about my T&A anymore. I might be taking this too seriously, but I see (my) breasts as further proof that appearances are deceiving. But they can sure get you a job promotion!

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 8:17 PM

T & A, aka the reason why I'll always thank my parents for sending me in a girls only house in France, run by nuns (bless their hearts). With booze. And long nights playing poker. I'm sure you'd have loved the place Vermillion... (Not that I'm pushing your pure mind into a dirtier gutter. Nope. Not at all)

Posted by: Zeebedida at October 2, 2008 8:21 PM

Sofia

I too was totally jealous of my friend's ability to go without a bra. I mean, I can and nobody would complain... But if I ever had to run away really fast (or jog at a moderate pace, or go up or down stairs) I'd probably whine about it a lot.

I think the love of my breasts (and hips) comes from the fact that I was always the tall, skinny, gangly kid that got teased all the time. So even when I sort of "blossomed" I was never really confident in my appearance. It wasn't until I learned to be confident in myself that I could look at my tatanies and be like, "awesome."

Aaaaand now I kind of want to try this pencil test.

Also, I kind of love bras and panties, they're so much fun. Especially the ones that enhance my cleavage. Or have pretty lace.

Oh Jay, I don't mind the looking (preferably a glance) at my cleavage. I mind the gawking. I mean seriously, when we're holding a conversation and you're literally just nodding your head and staring at my rack, you need to check yourself. Which is also the weird thing about having quite a few guy friends, it's like, they know since they can't buy, they may as well window shop all they like. And then it's like, dude, seriously, if I can refrain from ogling your hands/crotch/ass then you can keep the staring to a 2 second minimum.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 8:35 PM

Whoops, I meant 2 second MAXIMUM.

I do not require my guy friends to stare at my boobs for 2 seconds.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 8:40 PM

OK, so this is neither feminist nor related, but I threw on Smallville in the background of doing some stuff, and that Green Arrow Oliver guy is walking around shirtless and dirty and oh my god why have I not been watching this!? this guy is making my pants feel funny.

Also, did Lois Lane actress whose name I can never remember have a whole bunch of facial surgery or did they get a new actress? because she looks completely different than I remember.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 2, 2008 8:45 PM

A"KP"vB, you're absolutely right--it was orgasmic. *blissful sigh*

lordhelmet, don't know how I fooled you into thinking I'm a classy gal, but thank you! And hey--when the breasts that are being talked about are as fabulous as those on we women of Pajiba, then it really is the best day ever, my friend!

Posted by: meaux at October 2, 2008 8:51 PM

Oh, and P.S. I failed the gravity test before my boobs even got as big as they are. I don't think it means anything, really. I still have a pretty hot rack.

Also, boobs are like feet- They're always two different sizes. Just like the fingers on my left hand are a little skinnier than the fingers on my right, and my left ear is a little different than my right one. Symmetry, Schmimetry.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 2, 2008 8:51 PM

aww Sofia. I'm sure your rack is lovely :) for the record mine are itty bitty and a bit lopsided (everyone's are) and far from perfect, but I love 'em. I try to focus on the things that are nice about them - like their sensitivity and how fun it is when they shift around when I move etc. rather than do they look like the ideal breasts. Think of what your breasts can do for you, not what your breasts can do for the mens. (And anyway, in my experience men care less about how perfect they are than whether you will let them touch them.)

Posted by: s. pisaster at October 2, 2008 8:59 PM

Symmetry, Schmimetry.

AKPvB I totally agree. One of my boobs is slightly larger than the other (It's a little more pronounced when they swell up) but, like yours, my rack rocks.

Hellz yea.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 9:03 PM

"Fronted by Jessica Valenti, Feministing gives feminism some sex appeal without ever betraying a core message of empowerment."

Why is THAT so important to you? Why is it important at all? Aren't we (women) innundated with that kind of crap enough on a daily basis? God forbid something female-centric lack sex appeal. Men aren't held to this standard, why should we have to be? I can't remember the last blog I've read that was written by a man that had sex appeal, or that would warrant a review where the FIRST thing mentioned about it is it's masculine sex appeal.

According to our society the absolute worst thing a woman can be is unattractive to a man. Heaven help her if she's not sexaay because we all know intelligence, hard work and honesty are not at all important, just show us your tits. Jesus fucking christ.

God, what an assinine statement!

Also, I Blame the Patriarchy is far, far better than either of these lame ass, Uncle Tom, sell-out 'feminist' sites.

Posted by: TiredOfPseudoFeminists at October 2, 2008 9:09 PM

I can't speak for all guys but I know for sure that size, shape, symmetry, firmness...all don't matter. I don't stare (unless invited), but I'll definitely glance before locking my eyes on hers - a woman's a person to be holistically respected and appreciated first and foremost (then aesthetically appreciated later). I strongly prefer natural, but the biggest attraction is a woman who likes what she's got, is confident with it, and can use it to her advantage. Please, take the advantage. Or take advantage of me. I'm not too picky.

meaux, give yourself a high-five and a drink from me!

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 2, 2008 9:10 PM

Mergh... lordhelmet I just watched the VP debates... May I have one of those drinks, as well?

I'll give you permission to look at my rack.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 10:51 PM

These are my BREASTS. They're so BIG. I need a BRA to strap them and support because they're so HUGE they need to be hooked and strapped for support... My big boobs. This one is bigger than this one, 'cause is the mommy and that's the baby. And this one is very nice to this one and they hold hands because they're FRIENDS!

Posted by: Sofía at October 2, 2008 11:00 PM

OhMyGawd. Sofia You're my booby hero.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 11:03 PM

Meaux, congratulations, you've been promoted to Chief Bartender until Julie gets her ass in here more regularly. Go ahead and give Kayanne a drink - hell, make it a double, sounds like she'll be needing it!

Cheers!

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 2, 2008 11:44 PM

Sofia = Superstar!!!!

And I thank you for the drink, good sir lordhelmet!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be sticking my hands under my arms because I'm nervous.

And then I'll smell 'em... LIKE THIS!!!!

Posted by: Kayanne at October 2, 2008 11:51 PM

I haven't read this post yet, but have instead skipped to the bottom of this massive comments thread to report on my Ally McBeal moment.

I seriously read the title to this post as 'Fisting Jezebel' several times before my eyes reassembled the letters properly.

I hope I don't have dirty whore dyslexia.

Posted by: Gabster at October 3, 2008 12:25 AM

Kayanne, did you make out with trees, too?

I made out with a wooden column we had in my house. And I do realize the consequences of using the words "wooden" and "column" in this site, but I figure narrating the things Mary Katherine G and I have in common is worth a few chuckles and therapeutic as well.

Posted by: Sofía at October 3, 2008 12:27 AM

Kayanne, did you make out with trees, too?

Oh look at you, my pretty little girl, sitting there with your face all painted up in your little halter top, you're nothing but a little slut.
Don't call me that! I'm a Puerto Rican lady senor.
You're nothing but a little slut, Sybill Ann Dorsett, we know you're a little slut.
I'm not a slut. I'm not a slut. I'm not a slut. I'm not a slut. I'M NO SLUT!

Ahem.

I thought about quoting the scene where Miss MKG is making out with her tree lovah, but decided that me saying:

"I had fun on our date last night, did you?... I wore this Kiwi Lime lipgloss just for you. Ohh I'm gonna spank you, d'ya wanna be spanked? I'll spank it, I'll spank it, I'll spank it. Sh, sh, sh... Ohhhhh my body....... Save the rain-forest."

May warrant some undo attention, but...

What are you saying...? You want a goodbye- what? I can't, I can't. I'm seeing Slater now... Ohhh you're so bad. Maybe just one for the road...

*attacks tree with unbridled lust*

Oh, and your birthmark looks like shit.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 3, 2008 12:43 AM

Ok, that was quite a read.

I am glad most Pajibans here are being refreshingly honest about boobs and feminism. It makes me feel... normal. I always feel like such a bad feminist when I put the girls out there on display (which admittedly isn't very often), but then, why can't we enjoy our bodies? Isn't that one of the basic tenets of feminism? Empowerment and enjoyment of our very selves?

I enjoy the effect my T&A have over men. And like my Pajiban girlcrush, Knife Pile Palin, I too have glasses, DDs and great hair. I also love to soap 'em up while thinking of a special someone who may, or may not, being reading this thread...

Oh, and I fail the pencil test. It's just the way it is. It doesn't stop me from enjoying them, though. Whew, I think I need some special grown up alone time now.

Posted by: Gabster at October 3, 2008 12:45 AM

Whew, I think I need some special grown up alone time now.

Me too.

Is it hot in here? No? Um, nevermind.

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 3, 2008 1:19 AM

I hope I don't have dirty whore dyslexia.

Posted by: Gabster

If you did, you would have spelled it dicks-licks-ia.

And lordhelmet
Its gettin' hot in here (so hot)
So take off all your clothes
I am gettin So hot, I wanna take my clothes off!

I'm just quoting Nelly, you see.

Ahem, I ain't no slut.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 3, 2008 1:31 AM

Kayanne, you just made my night. I'd never accuse you or any other Pajibalady of being a slut, no way no how, not ever. See, stripping, talking dirty, maybe even a little flirtation or teasing is all good sportsmanship if not even good clean fun! Definitely not slutty! And as long as it's a 2-way street, well, it's all good.

Now, I'm going to re-read this thread and go to bed with a peaceful, non-pervy smile on my face.

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 3, 2008 1:38 AM

Kayanne, you just made my night. I'd never accuse you or any other Pajibalady of being a slut, no way no how, not ever.

Thanks, lordhelmet but I was actually making a throwback to my MKG quote that was actually a quote that was from a Sally Fields made for TV movie, but all of which was prompted by Sofia quoting MKG first, in regards to her(/their) bosom(s).

So yea, have fun re-reading that!

And to _all_ a goodnight!

Posted by: Kayanne at October 3, 2008 1:44 AM

One of the best postings on feminism I've ever read, by a blogger who Gets It.

http://tomatonation.com/?p=677

Posted by: KellsBells at October 3, 2008 2:00 AM

Oh, dammit--I went to bed, and neglected my bartending duties. Having your bartender way over here on the east coast might prove difficult (unless we want to start the party early?)

Sorry, Kayanne, welcome to the MurderLounge and I hope you served yourself!

Gabster, "dirty whore dyslexia" made me giggle!

Posted by: meaux at October 3, 2008 6:47 AM

Thanks meux I am still laughing at kayanne's 'dicks licks-ia' why didn't I think of that?

Special grown up alone time fun times to you, Lord Helmet!

Posted by: Gabster at October 3, 2008 6:56 AM

Che Grover,

I feel for you. Divorce is bad enough. But seven years of divorce? Suddenly Uwe Boll and Brett Ratner movies don't seem so bad.

Posted by: Ed Newman at October 3, 2008 9:16 AM

I am still laughing at kayanne's 'dicks licks-ia' why didn't I think of that?

Because Kayanne is a Superstar. When you say tap, she taps. When you say booga-booga, she booga-boogas. One time she was walking down the street and a man came up to her and said, "Would you like to be a Supermodel?" and she said 'yes' and the next day she was on the cover of Vogue.

Posted by: Sofía at October 3, 2008 9:21 AM

Dustin, quick note. I think the example post you selected comes from the "Community" portion of the Feministing blog. This is where the blog readers can post their own thoughts and entries. It's a new feature that was added on the recent site reboot.

It's not really from the blog proper, though. That's what you see when you go to feministing.com, and all entries are written by the main people running the site. An entry from that would probably be more suitable for comparison to Jezebel.

Posted by: lastpolarbear at October 3, 2008 9:39 AM

Wow, too bad I turned off the computer shortly after the debate started... I missed some fun goings-on in this thread!

Special grown-up alone time, indeed. All I can think about now is everybody's soapy breastices! (Except for lordhelmet, of course. That's all about the soapy... well, helmet.) You kids are all Superstars!

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 3, 2008 11:13 AM

I'm a little late coming into this thread, so just a few things.
-I'm really mad my bra is in the way of being able to do the pencil test. Also, my coworkers might look at me funny.
-I love my breasts. If I'm having a lazy day just watching tv, I end up just holding them for hours. Anyone else do this?

Jay, be careful with making a move on someone you're just sharing a bed with. Years ago, I used to sleep in a bed with a friend for comfort's sake. He made a move just once and after that I couldn't do it anymore without feeling uncomfortable. I'm sure this would never happen with you...but just saying...

Oh, and Knife Pile, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Lana Lang, not Lois Lane...they both exist in the Smallville world. Yeah I watch the show, what of it?

Posted by: jamiepants at October 3, 2008 11:20 AM

Oh I err so far into caution I've been suspected of frigidity.

Posted by: Jay at October 3, 2008 11:23 AM

Having your bartender way over here on the east coast might prove difficult (unless we want to start the party early?)

Oh, meaux, I'm an east coaster, too. But I don't have Friday classes, because I'm a smart senior! In fact all I have to do today is a meeting at 2 and then help my friend pick out a wedding dress.

Err...

Let's get back to boobies, shall we?

Dearest Gabster, the reason I thought of "dicks-licks-ia" as the slutty version of dyslexia is because I'm naughty wayyyy deep down. I'm the good little girl that will just drop plain ol' filth because I have a dirtier mind than I should.

In fact, I thought this thread would turn into a "Pajiba-Pajama-Party-Pillow Fight!" Because I'm just that dirty/cute/weird. Yea... I'm very weird.

Next topic change!

And Sofia, thank you so much for recognizing my Superstardom. You're clearly amazing and I hope you don't get savagely ripped apart and eaten by a school of hammerhead sharks... That happens a lot, you know.

Posted by: Kayanne at October 3, 2008 11:29 AM

I've never heard of the pencil test, but I can tell you without even checking that I'll for sure pass. My boobs are in no way large enough to trap a pencil. I've always been more of an ass and leg flaunter - those, I'm proud of. Boobs? Meh, not so much. Nothing wrong with 'em, but nothing spectacular about 'em either.

Posted by: tt_marie at October 3, 2008 11:36 AM

[...]thinking of Lana Lang, not Lois Lane..

Nope, definitely Lois. Really annoying girl, as I like to call her. I looked her up, the actress is Erica Durance. I'm pretty sure it's the same actress, and I'm pretty sue she had, at the very least, a nose job. Unless she was just young, and grew into her face. Thanks, though, jamiepants!

Oh, and Jay, the hip thing just happens. It's lady-hip shape. And it is completely hot, I am right behind you there.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 3, 2008 11:41 AM

and, I forgot:

Rock on, East Coast!! Or, as I prefer to call it, the right coast.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 3, 2008 11:43 AM

You know something? I'm pretty damn proud of my body, too, which is tough when you grow up in a house with other six women, all vain in their own way. Me? I'm the one who favors chocolate and peanut butter over pimples the next day. And it makes a couple of my sisters furious. "You have a nice body; you just need to tighten up a little bit," says my passive-agressive sister. You know what? Maybe I do, but I actually like having micro love handles (meaning: my hipbones don't stick out that much), and my guy is absolutely IN LOVE with them, 'cause "it's nice having something to grab!"

I'm tall, I have big breasts, a waist and a big ass, and yes, I'm a bit loose on the curves, but I like myself that way. I'm pretty damn lucky. I guess it pisses my sisters off that I have the potential to have a better body and I'm perfectly okay with the one I have right now. And it took me years to be able to say this outloud, because society makes you believe that you should NEVER be happy with your appearance. Well, fuck you society. I care about my body in my own way.

I'm closing with the following words: Beauty fades, dumb is forever.
-Judge Judy*

*Whom also said "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

Posted by: Sofía at October 3, 2008 11:53 AM

Marry me, Sofia.

Posted by: Anna "Knife Pile" von Beaverplatz at October 3, 2008 11:55 AM

Anna,

I will marry you, as long as you're willing to accept the fact that the days of pearl necklaces are over.

Posted by: Sofía at October 3, 2008 12:13 PM

Damn, what a way to wake up! And a very good morning to you, ladies! Kayanne, it seems I'll have to become more Mary K-G literate. Meaux, what kind of question is that?? When in doubt, start the party early!!! Clearly, your bartender-fu is a little rusty, I prescribe much remedial practice - if you and whoever's in the awesomely named MurderLounge can still walk, you ain't done practicing!

I'm having the hardest time figuring out which of these glorious women I'm crushing on the most! If I don't look out, I may be in a good mood for longer than usual!

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 3, 2008 12:15 PM

Wow, nobody took TiredOfPseudoFeminists' bait? Nobody? C'mon, PseudoFem feminism isn't like that no more. It is all-embracing. Everybody in the pool. Women who lean that way can be good feminists while being attractive to men. You don't have to beat yourself up over your sexuality anymore, you don't have to hide it, you can flaunt it. Butching it up isn't necessarily more empowering than femming it up, but the power to choose IS. Wear makeup or eschew it, that's your choice. Mascara will not invalidate yer feminist credentials. We are allowed to have a sense of humor now, too. Differing opinion on choice? That's ok, get in the pool. Can't afford your own "room with a view"? That's ok, get in the pool. You over there, the man in the skirt, get in the pool. Governor Palin? Sorry, you are not allowed in the pool, because you are only into empowering yourself, nobody else.


PseudoFem, your attitude is an old-school feminist one, that women have to meet some standard for feminist cred. Calling these sites "uncle Tom" and "sellout" because they don't pass your tests just ensures I'm never going to google "I Blame the Patriarchy", because I doubt I'll measure up.

Posted by: phquaryn at October 3, 2008 12:23 PM

Ah the pencil test-I can definitely hold a pencil under my boob, but the girls are pretty perky nonetheless. I love boobs, I think most girls enjoy theirs as much as others'. Not in the the biblical sense necessarily...in the appreciative sense. My roommate and I got drunk a few weekends ago and ended up topless on the couch fighting over who had better ones. I said hers because they are small and very intricately shaped, and she said mine because I have cleavage and that natural kind of slope. Breasts are pretty.

...I blame my college for this post.

And Sofia, that was glorious.

Posted by: Julie at October 3, 2008 12:39 PM

Ladies, this was fun.

Sofia you kick so much ass.

And lordhelmet I give you full permission to crush on me. I'll serenade you with Nelly and teach you the ways of MKG.

You know what it's time for... Supermodel documentary hour!

Posted by: Kayanne at October 3, 2008 1:21 PM

Julie, I think I just heard Shadows start a temper tantrum that he didn't have a chance to place hidden cameras in that room on that night *ducks as a lamp goes sailing into a wall* - Dammit Shadows, cool it already, I can't buy you the latest and greatest low-light hi-definition zoom lens gear if you keep this up! Hell, at this rate you'll be lucky to get those miniaturised transmitters - knock it off!

So, um, Julie, he promises to behave if...dude, don't make me do this (alright already, just put the tripod down!) - don't hate me Jules - he says he'll behave if you re-enact that night specially for him, in multiple takes so he can get all the best angles. (Dude, you _so_ owe me for this!)

Posted by: lordhelmet at October 3, 2008 1:31 PM

I read (and comment on) Jezebel occasionally, but find the defensive tone sometimes offputting. I got voted their worst comment of the day once...

Good luck getting men ignore your breasts. Actually, I think the day men stop enjoying boobs will be a sad day in Mudville indeed. My boyfriend says I like that word too much myself. Boobs!

And I used to dress in a boyish way and cut my hair short, and I sometimes got mistaken for a boy or a butch lesbian. Eventually, you have to ask yourself "Is looking this way more important to me than being misidentified? Does is make me happy more than other people's mistakes make me upset?" I've since embraced a more traditionally female mode of dress.

Posted by: RhymesWithSilver at October 3, 2008 1:31 PM

I'm sure my roommate will be receptive to that Helmet...we had the same conversation the other night over beers. Fully clothed this time though.

Posted by: Julie at October 3, 2008 3:05 PM

In fact, I thought this thread would turn into a "Pajiba-Pajama-Party-Pillow Fight!"

*Holds pillows, waits expectantly*

Posted by: Gabster at October 3, 2008 4:05 PM

Pseudofem, you have an ally in bitter, women's studies majoring, Seven Sisters attending, early nineties graduating, judgmental ol' me. I resent enormously the amount of space in my mind my appearance takes up - the vast majority of men aren't preoccupied with their appearance and I'm jealous of the peace that must give them. I feel that I could've learned French with that part of my brain. Yes, I know I could just turn off that part of my brain, but I would most certainly bear the societal brunt of being a (gasp!) unattractive women in her mid-30s.

I'm really no fun about this stuff, though I am a fun person in general.

Posted by: samantha t at October 3, 2008 4:56 PM

I read Jezebel every day and feministing occasionally. I agree with this article entirely. Jezebel is arrogant and while I like one of their writers, Traci, (she was one of the panelists which was drunk and not at her best) her Pot Psychology gets a lot of attention and I find it completely sophomoric. I do think their main audience is quite young and it shows in the comments especially. There is a rule of no girl hate (you don't criticize another woman's looks, etc. Except when the writers do it, then it's ok! Ah well, it's still fun sometimes.

Posted by: Anne at October 3, 2008 9:10 PM

In fact, I thought this thread would turn into a "Pajiba-Pajama-Party-Pillow Fight!"
*Holds pillows, waits expectantly*
Posted by: Gabster

*whacks you with a fluffy pillow and Tee-Hees*
Yay!

Posted by: Kayanne at October 4, 2008 12:12 AM

way to re-hash some old shit.

Posted by: faith at October 4, 2008 7:21 PM

Moe has been laid off from Gawker, FYI. Also, don't use a post by Tracie to represent Jezebel as a whole. She's worthless.

Posted by: Kate at October 4, 2008 7:32 PM

You may think Traci is useless (I wouldn't go that far) but her article I mentioned above is and it gets thousands of page views so it's probably here to stay, and so is Tracie.

Posted by: Anne at October 4, 2008 9:00 PM